Even When Linux Fans Win, They Lose

by Rich Menga on Sep 26, 2008 | 131 comments

I’m writing this from Ubuntu 8.04 in a live session (booted from USB stick). This *nix distribution runs well, does what I want it to do and runs just fine without complaint. Let’s forget the fact that it’s super-awesome-cool I can just pop in a USB stick, boot Ubuntu, run it, connect to a wireless network with no problems at all and do my work. You can’t do that with Windows or OS X. Let’s also forget the fact for a moment I’ve been using *nix distros off and on since Red Hat 5 (Apollo).

Small note before continuing: “*nix” means Linux or Unix. The asterisk is there as a “wildcard” to signify both, or basically anything that ends in “nix”.

Linux fans have been arguing – very loudly – for years that we should all be using Linux. They say it’s better, faster, etc. and you can easily escape the corporate shackles of retail operating systems by using it. Ubuntu finally comes along which is one of the easiest *nix distros you’ll ever use. It’s got fanatical worldwide support. It’s also got corporate support from companies like Dell.

For all intents and purposes, this is a win. The Linux fans finally got what they were looking for, that being a distro people can actually use as their primary OS if they so chose to do so. Lots of support, lots of apps, all for free, total coolness all around. And recognition where it counts.

Here’s what I don’t understand: There are quite a few *nix fans that say if you use Ubuntu, it’s a “for noobs only” OS.

It is this attitude that, said bluntly, pisses me off about the Linux community as a whole. Even if you muster up the courage, download Ubuntu and say “Hey, not bad.. I think I’ll use this”, fervent *nix fans say you’re not running a “real Linux” – even though that yes, Ubuntu is a real Linux distro and always has been.

It is a truth that Linux’s own community destroys just about any success they achieve outside of server applications. You guys got what you wanted and more people than ever are using Linux, yet you complain. You feel if the OS isn’t “difficult” to use, it’s not worth anyone’s time to use it. You believe that if everything can be done from the GUI without going to a terminal prompt, that’s “too easy”.

I have never yapped at anyone for using any particular *nix distro. Even if they tried it and didn’t like it, I would say “Well, at least you tried and there’s no harm in that.”

Why any *nix fan would yap at someone for using Ubuntu I’ll never know.

My advice for any *nix fan that complains about Ubuntu: Cut the crap. You’ve got far better things to do than be engaged in arguments in your own community about your own offerings. Those arguments are what shoot people right back to Microsoft – and stay there.

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http://twofourtech.com Ded Ryzing
Rich, I couldn’t agree more. I have written articles about choosing a Linux Distro and when I suggested Ubuntu, I got a whack load of comments calling it “Unoobtu” and that it’s not really Linux. Bullshit. People that act and comment like that are only after self-promotion and “trying” to make themselves look important. This attitude goes against the very attitude that drove Linux in the first place…that of having an open and freely available alternative so that users have a choice and the freedom to choose their computing experience.
This is the biggest disappointment I have had with the Linux community. In a seperate “tongue in cheek” article I wrote about the cast of “OS Wars: The Movie”, I had the part of Linux played by Hannibal Lector…smart, sophisticated, cultured…and willing to eat even those who support it. http://www.pcmech.com/article/os-wars-the-movie-cast-of-actors/
Thanks for the great article.

glorybe
If you like Ubuntu you will love Mint. Mint is derived from Ubuntu but has many added features. First your streaming video will work right out of the box. Secondly Mint runs faster. You also will not need to add repositories as the extra repositories are already set up for you. The art work is also better. Obviously the two OSs are highly linked. The better Ubuntu gets it is a given that Mint will also benefit. At any rate install Mint. You’ll be thrilled.

Bruce
Sound like the early days of the mainframes. We had “priests” who claimed only *they* could understand the mysteries.
SupaChalupa
Rich, where can I get an Ubuntu 8.04 download? And does the USB stick need to be a certain size?

http://www.menga.net Rich Menga
You can download Ubuntu direct from http://www.ubuntu.com as an ISO and burn it to CD.
For the USB stick you need 1GB minimum. Use UNetbootin to install (it will auto-download Ubuntu when you select it, partition the stick appropriately, etc.) Get that at http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
Refer here for more UNetbootin info with screenshots: http://www.pcmech.com/article/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-with-no-optical-drive/

SupaChalupa
Awesome, thanks Rich I think I am going to give it a shot…

SupaChalupa
Also can I keep other files on the stick while Ubuntu is on it and have Ubuntu still work properly?
Pedro
Use a stick of 2Gig or more and keep your work on the stick as you take it from one PC/Laptop to another. I have been using it for a while and I love it. I don’t have to carry a laptop with me, only the stick. Of course, you have to make sure you will have a computer that can boot from the USB.

http://www.menga.net Rich Menga
@SupaChalupa: You could but why bother when a 2GB USB stick is only 13 bucks at Wal-Mart? Pony up and buy a stick. One can never have too many.

SupaChalupa
Yeah that’s true… And BestBuy has some great deals on their big sticks right now so I might just buy a big one and use my current small one for Ubuntu.
SupaChalupa
Rich, I was looking online at these USB flash drives and saw all this stuff the come with now.
Product Features
* 4GB storage capacity
* High-speed USB 2.0 interface; backward compatible with USB 1.1
* ReadyBoost enabled to make computers running Windows Vista faster by using a USB drive as temporary storage
* High-speed USB 2.0 connectivity
* Measures just 2.3″ long for true portability
* LED indicator light lets you know when the flash drive is in use
* Preloaded with SKYPE, CruzerSync synchronization, SignupShield password protection and Avast antivirus software
* SKYPE software lets you conveniently make PC-to-PC voice and audio calls (requires additional service fees)
* U3 smart enabled
* Retractable USB connector design helps protect the connector while the drive is not in use
* Compatible with Mac and PC; enhanced for ReadyBoost for Windows Vista
* Includes lanyard and SKYPE voucher card with 30 SKYPE voicemail minutes
Should the things it comes with effect my choice at all? Any idea what U3 smart enabled means?

Jeroen
All you wanted to know about U3 can be found at http://www.u3.com/. It’s basically tech that allows you to easily run portable apps from the stick. I always put my own stuff on it, so the first thing I do is use he removal tool (http://www.u3.com/uninstall/).
If you just want to use it for booting Ubuntu, all the preloaded stuff isn’t important (in fact, all that stuff is either in Ubuntu by default or could be installed later).
Oh, and the retractable USB connector is pretty cool IMO. You don’t have to use a cap to protect the connector (which usually gets lost anyway).

SupaChalupa
But having that stuff on the stick wont cause me any problems when I try to run Linux from it?
Jeroen
No.

glorybe
TigerDirect.com has memory sticks for less than half of what Walmart charges. These days it is super easy to buy an 8 gigabyte stick and the size of these critters seems to be growing almost weekly.

http://www.geezergeek.net Floyd Bufkin
I took the USB stick a step farther. I used an old laptop disk drive, and a “2020″ to connect it.
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=2020-OTB&cpc=SCH
You can get a install more programs and have more storage for documents.
I’ve been using Linux for years, and I don’t think Ubuntu is for newbies only. I use Xubuntu mostly.
HAL9000
I know a lot of *nix users as well and yup.. they say the same thing about Ubuntu.. They want to remain being seen as the “elite” that understand how to do everything from the command line.. they want point and click people to feel inferior.
I tried a few flavors of Linux.. Mandrake, Red Hat and I have Ubuntu on a bootable CD as well, but never really played with it yet. I just got tired of all the crap involved to do a simple program install… point and click isn’t THAT bad.

kb0hae
Hi Guys. If Ubuntu (or Kubuntu, or any other distro) suits your needs, thats cool! However, advanced users find that it is (by design) limited in certain ways. It IS meant to be easy to install and use. Some features that are founf in other distros are missing from Ubuntu, probably in the interest of making it harder for new users to screw up something that they (don’t yet) understand.
While Linux is not for everyone, I do believe that the average person could get along very well with Linux as their only OS. How software is installed is different in Linux than in Windows. Most Linux distris us a package management system. That means that you run a program that lists all the programs and files (packages) available for that distro. You get an updated list, choose what you want to install, and install it.
After I have gotten used to this system, I like it better. Personally, I use Linux Mint, Sidux, and WinXP Pro here. XP is used only for a few games, and can’t access the internet (intentionally blocked at my router).
I do think that some folks go too far by saying that Ubuntu isn’t real Linux. I don’t like Ubuntu (I prefer KDE to Gnome, and don’t like some of its limitations) but if others like it, and it suits their needs then I say thats great. I do not like MSs buisness practices.
I say use what works for you, and don’t let others get under your skin if they don’t like what you are using!

Trueash
>While Linux is not for everyone, I do believe that the average >person could
Excuse me but it sounds like yet another example of the attitude that helps Microsoft keep its customer base… WHO IS that “average person”? WHY is Linux “not for everyone”?
Being no techie man, I’ve been using Linux as my primary OS for more than four years – and I was 41 at that time. And you know, over that time, I’ve had just one major frustration – the things that Rich Menga wrote about, and, sorry to say, you have just confirmed. I hope, unwittingly

jim sadler
There’s room for everyone in the Linux community. Ubuntu and its derivatives are great OSs whether one believes that a computer is an appliance or a lofty object.
But do not discount the snobs appeal to bare bones ditros. One view of computers is that they are thinking machines. Therefore some people believe that one’s brains must be in rocket scientist mode whenever one is at the computer. We can all live with that belief without being offended in any way even if we are not all about expanding the ability of computers.
On that subject genetic programming was gaining ground rather quickly even back when our computers were sort of pitiful and slow. Now days I’m certain that genetic programming is really rocking our world yet it is almost a silent topic. It is so silent that I’m beginning to wonder if the powers that be are not trying the old hush hush routine. Could the day of crossover be at hand when machines program our machines and write our OSs?

http://None David M
When I see half as much software written for Linux as I do for Windows then I might give it a go….especially gaming software.
So if I get Linux, what can I do with it? Read my emails?..ok, thats a good thing. I can do that with Vista as well. So give me a REALLY good reason to change to Linux?

Jeroen
You don’t need to change to Linux. I did it, because all the stuff I want is available in Linux (e.g. Firefox, Evolution e-mail, Eclipse Java IDE, VirtualBox for Windows test enviroments, Wine for the odd Windows app I really need in Linux).
One thing I really like is the fact that it’s incredibly secure. Since 98% of all viruses and malware are written for Windows, I don’t have to worry about that. And I like tinkering with my computer.
Since I’m an avid gamer, I still dual boot into Windows XP. There are some games that’ll (partially) work in Linux (e.g. most Steam games, OpenGL based games, Darwinia!), but it’s not really worth the effort. Especially if you want cutting edge graphics.
In short: try it (there are a lot of LiveCDs out there to try without consequense), but don’t feel obligated to use it. Linux was born, because people wanted to have a choice.
Chris
Here is what I use linux for, both at work and home – I think you would agree that it is much more than email.
1.) Surf the Web (firefox, Opera, or IE6 with a little tweeking)
2.) Email (connected to an Exchange server through the Evolution mail client)
3.) Modify, Fill out and Edit PDFs with Acrobat Pro through WINE.
4.)Manage a website with Dreamweaver
5.)Sync my work server files to my laptop with Unison (like window’s offline folders)
6.)Create and share Microsoft Office files with my windows-using coworkers flawlessly with OpenOffice I’ve also started using Googledocs, which work flawlessly as well.
7.) Play WOW and Everquest. Go to my X-box to play **real** games
8.) Use GIMP and Scribus to create brochures, posters, booklets, cards and just about anything else at a quality well above MS Publisher.
BTW, I love the Command line, but I appreciate the fact that I can do anything through the gui.
Jason
You want a really good reason to change to Linux? Because you want to.
Seriously, if you don’t want it, even if we give you a good reason what’s going to be your real drive? I don’t think Linux users want everyone and their parents to use Linux, they want people who want to use Linux to use it.
Linux can do many many things, a lot of what Windows can and some of what Windows can’t.
My favorite reason? Uptime.
Practically never have to worry about a virus, never have to worry about a firewall. Don’t think Linux is immune, but it is inherently much more secure.
glorybe
For gamers Linux has come a long way. There are a ton of good games native to Linux. Further if you are playing one of the super popular games there is a great chance that the steps to run it in Wine are available. One weird thing is that some programs written for Windows OSs actually run faster on Linux and obviously Linux is a far more stable OS. That means less crash and burn moments smack in the midsection of your game play.
glorybe
Running Linux will pretty much remove you from the virus, malware and pop-up junk that Windows users battle. Crashes can be non existent in Linux. You also will not have defrag down time as Linux systems do not need a defrag function. You also may never need to spend one red cent on software again including the OS itself. And if you seek jobs within the industry knowing Linux would be a basic skill that will probably be demanded.
There is another item not often mentioned. And that is that the free software movement is to some degree a political or almost spiritual position. The idea that OSs and free software can reach the world and uplift the masses is inherent in Linux and the entire free software movement. Locking the masses out of computing by charging large sums of money for OSs is not the right way to do things. To that degree Linux users are in rebellion against the system. You might want to deeply consider that message.
jim sadler
Many Windows games can be run on Linux and in some cases they will actually run better than they ever did on any Microsoft OS. That is not to say that using Wine or any other enabling device will not cause some initial efforts. Also the list of games native to Linux has been growing.
Even after saying all of that I’m not so certain that computers need be designed with gamers so much in mind. We ask quite a bit of computers these days. To me games are sort of the low branch on the tree of considerations.

Stacey
I’ve used Ubuntu and am currently using Mint (awsome *nix distro for sure) and I think the biggest reason for the snobbery is that distros like these “look and work like windows”. All I can say is, well…duh! How else can you get jane or joe consumer to be interested in a new operating system if it looked like a dos screen of gibberish?
I don’t mind mucking about with the terminal but I know many people who don’t and that just want something that works and works like windowes with just point/click to make something work and certainly don’t want to be made fun of or talked down to.

glorybe
Point and click functions are a super bonus in trying to quickly produce work product. It is simply faster to copy and paste, drag and drop, etc. than to type everything on a command line. But most Linux distros are ripe with point and click features these days. Many older people who use computers to do Google searches, send email and trade recipies and the like are far better off running Linux than Windows boxes. Linux requires far less maintenance, is stable, and is not prone to malware. And when one needs the command line it is there and it is potent. But I will admit that Bash command line syntax is difficult compared to DOS.

Greg
I have to say I read a lot of Linux blogs and tech articles in general and cant remember ever seeing anyone comment that ubuntu was a noob distro other than ubuntu users trying to push that point. Connanical has spent a lot of time and energy to create that image so why would anyone take exception to that statement anyway? The complaints Ive most often seen has been that ubuntu is overhyped (Im sure anyone can understand that if youve tried something and found it wanting you dont want to see 500 articles about how great it is everywhere you turn. But the biggest complaint has been that it is not noob friendly enough (you have to use the terminal more in ubuntu or any gnome distro for that matter than in many of the other distros that are much more suited to new users from windows. Ubuntu is certainly a useable distro and many people like it for many reasons and if it does what they want they should use it. Personally Ive installed and tried just about every distro I could find and Ive only found a handful that in my mind were worthy of keeping and sorry to say ubuntu didnt even come close to making the cut.
Richard
I agree with you whole hearted, I am so sick of the elitists out there that knock Ubuntu. I use it and think its great, admittedly not perfect neither was Windows, Amiga OS or C128/C64 bios… for that matter nothing ever will be as it is made by humans. If these knockers put their negative energy into either constructive criticism or just doing some coding then the Linux World would be a better place. Its a case of Ubuntu being hit by the tall poppy syndrome, my philosophy with this Mr/Ms negativity, put up or shut up. If they can’t move forward and be positive then just sit in their dark little corner of their psychosis and leave us all alone. One of the things that make Ubuntu great is the community, when I have struck issues they have been wonderful and more than willing to help. Sometimes I wish I could return more but as my programming skills are bigtime old (68k assembler was the last time I programmed). The last time I saw this humanity to others was back in the Amiga days, but then that platform had its zealots too. Sorry if I got up on my soapbox,but I am so so so sick of this it is not funny.
Mattq
Who says that “Ubuntu isn’t real Linux”? I have never heard that claim. Ubuntu is by far the most popular distro and it is used by people with many different level of skills.
In my experience (speaking as a noob) the Linux community has been very helpful.
http://ibeentoubuntu.com Daeng Bo
Like you, I’ve used Linux for over ten years. I went from Debian to Ubuntu in the dark ages between Woody and Sarge. I used Ubuntu for almost four years, then went back to Debian.
Ubuntu is basically Debian. There are very few differences. Sure, Ubuntu’s a little easier to use. It’s quite a bit easier to set up. That doesn’t make it anything except 98% Debian, and only idiots would argue that Debian’s not true Linux.
So you’re right! These people are elitists. They want to set themselves apart. If Linux becomes ubiquitous, they’ll be the ones on BSD or Solaris.
What I’m saying is — don’t listen to them. There are jerks everywhere, especially on the Internet.
T. Alan
I agree totally. I am currently using Ubuntu, on a dual boot system and still have to go to WinXP once in a while. I use *nix to learn, and keep myself up to date with new options. I will be building a new system at the end of the year for my wife (her favorite game is Windows only) and it will probably be a dual boot. I am planning on taking her old system and making it a test system and trying out other flavors of *nix. I have gotten Ubuntu working so well on my main system, that I no longer want to use it to test other disto like I first planned. Ubuntu may be a “noob” disto, but it is perfect to get former windows users feet wet!
Jesper
Although it’s not often that I see such comments, it might happen once in a while – but generally the Danish Linux community is somewhat distro-agnostic – the hate is primarily directed at Windows
Anyway, I can only suggest anyone seeing the noob-distro-hate to point out how ridiculous it is of people to perpetrate the users who’re looking for an easy to use OS – really, point it out so that the switcher feel (at least in part) welcome.

Paolo
My question would have to be that in an open environment why does their have to be hate at all.
Linux is around for the forseeable future as is windows, it just means more choice for us. I program in .net so my main pc’s are all windows, i can’t replace my linux server that does all of my routing and vpn tunneling to connect me to my office though.

glorybe
Hat and anger are often masks for fear. Don’t get me wrong. I’m a Debian-Ubuntu-Mint user. Mint is now my full time distro. When I experiment it is often with OSs that are derived from Debian.
Here is the real deal. Ubuntu is becoming huge in success. That leaves a certain fear that those that contribute to or design the other NIX OSs may well leave other distros and head straight for Ubuntu. That would leave many smaller distros unable to stay afloat. This is a very real issue. People who write commercial software for Linux OSs can not help but notice that they might almost be forced to write for the Ubuntu market.
Now as to how real that fear is I am not qualified to guess. But I think that that may well be why we see some Linux old timers upset about Ubuntu etc..

Satchmo
There are two main reasons why experienced linux users tend to not speak well about ubuntu.
First: distros which try to imitate windows are dangerous for linux in general. Linux isn’t a cheap windows. We use linux because it’s very different from windows, and a better OS. If you like windows, please feel free to use windows and leave linux unspoiled.
Second: “ease of use” in the sense of “lots of GUI tools, wizards and automatic behaviour” takes control away from the user and adds complexity in the structure of the system. As any engineer could tell you, more complexity means more bugs. Not welcome.

Chris
This is exactly what make Ubuntu so great. It is easy enough for a windows user to use, but unlike Linspere or PCLinuxOS, it keeps it’s linux roots in tack.
Satchmo, I agree with you regarding the poisoning of Linux by some distro’s. It nauseates me to see a distro with a “start” menu. Linux should be a different operating system from Windows. It stands on it’s own.
But, I feel that Ubuntu, while easy to use, doesn’t fall in that category. It looks and feels like a real Linux distro, and that’s it power- to show that Linux can be different -but not harder to use- than Windows.
Your right about the increase bugs, but not everyone can dedicate the time to learn to use a computer without the GUI tools. The strength of linux is that there will always be distros that are “pure”.

glorybe
Productivity is the reason behind point and click gadgets. If one is doing a great deal of real work the time to whack away at a command line simply is not available. As it now stands distros like Ubuntu and Mint have just the right balance between point and click and a powerful command line. And believe it or not on large systems little things take on greater meaning. Try owning a couple of these new terrabyte hard drives on a Windows box and running your weekly defrag. You’ll reach retirement before those drives are done.
glorybe
It isn’t the time to learn the command line that is the real issue. It is accomplishing work that demands GUI functions. Drag and drop, cut and paste etc. are vastly faster with GUI than at the prompt.And also try doing all of the typing to get files from those lovely USB sticks. What a pile that is at the command line. Yet with a GUI one can click on the drive and retrieve those files in a flash. And syntax errors don’t happen with GUIs in play. How many times do all of us have to correct our typing or our syntax at the prompt? Don’t get me wrong. I like the command line. But for the sake of speed one needs GUI and one needs a darned good GUI at that.

http://shooblog7.blogspot.com/ Shoo
Plus with Rich. The same in Europe… !!
First : Most of us use Windows because it is easy to use, or have Windows habits and on 90% of the market.
Second : It is a good thing that Ubuntu is cheaper than Windows – not a cheap Windows, but most of us are not developper and especially have not enough time to read pages and pages of MAN. We have other interests.
So, when You hear, Ubuntu is for noob, why not ? but when You hear : “read tons of MAN before ask a question” You’d like to say “F… *nix !”
I’m Fan of *nix as You can read it (in French) : http://shooblog7.blogspot.com/2007/03/ubuntu-beryl-desktop-3d.html but PLUS with Rich.
(Sorry for the bad english…)

glorybe
It helps to be young. I’m not. But getting quick on manuals is something that almost everyone should do. It is fine to have other interests but personal computing is about as Earth bending as the use of fire or invention of the wheel. We are at the edge of an unbelievable adventure. Human knowledge is probably doubling about every year or so now. Soon it may double every few minutes. Our computers are doing this for us. Sciences such as robotics are simply extensions of computing. Your medical care is already largely developed using computers as are all of the welds that hold your car together. Subjects such as physics and chemistry are already at the point at which computers are integral to discoveries. We will need to get our minds around what is occurring. Displacement and discomfort are normal with change. Yet we all need change very badly.As I type this powerful computer programs search for answers to cancer. So we are in a trade off predicament. A man may suffer unemployment as computers eliminate his job yet his wife or child may be saved by the work done by computers. Digging as deep as we can into manuals is a very, very good thing. If Linux encourages that a bit then great.

Joal
I’d have to strongly disagree here Satchmo, on both points.
First: Linux has changed a lot in the short time since I first started using it in 1998. We’ve had new device-file systems, I was originally using enlightenment and windowmaker (Yes, they’re still around, but development has sloooowwwwwed to a crawl.), kde and gnome had only been around for a while, and I remember seeing some fvwm2 desktops and a _lot_ of mosaic apps. So “leaving linux unspoiled” is ignoring a heck of a lot of changes and development that has happened anyway. (I for one, wouldn’t like to go back.)
The things I like about Linux is _choice_. Do you want one click to two to open a file? Do you want to run a command from a CTRL-ALT-F1 terminal, a terminal emulator, or even “gasp”, a pop-up command-line like gnome-do. When somebody says “We should keep things ‘pure’.”, I tend to hear “You should do it my way or not at all.”
The only thing I find dangerous about “copying windows” is that releases like Mandrake, sorry, Mandriva (*gag*) ended up doing so at the cost of stability. On the other hand, I prefer super-friendly Ubuntu _way more_ than ultra-ultra-stable Debian. If windows has a good idea (Like 3D desktop effects ), then we should definitely copy it. Lord knows they’ve copied remote application control, package management and drag-able menus off us.
Second: I have yet to see a Linux GUI tool, wizard or automatic behaviour that couldn’t be tweaked somewhere in /etc. Since most GUI tools are scripts anycase, they’re also tweakable in the executable too.
I specifically left Redhat (before it became Fedora) because they threw out a whole passel of GUI tools, and I was getting _sick_ of having to hand-edit a whole bunch of /etc files every time I upgraded. Especially when /etc files changed keywords or formats between distribution releases, making it almost as much effort to get an old config file to work properly. A GUI or wizard, or _gasp_ automatic configuration saves a lot of hassle, and since I was doing the same thing every upgrade anyway, thank _god_ Ubuntu automates most of it for me.
I for one, welcome our new GUI overlords.
Jason
I’m not getting where people are saying Ubuntu is designed to imitate Windows. Ubuntu isn’t designed to imitate Windows, Ubuntu is designed to be easy to use. Built into Ubuntu is many features that are on Microsoft Windows as well as Mac OS X as well as some that isn’t found on either OS.
There are Distros that are designed specifically to imitate Windows, Ubuntu is not one of them. Ubuntu is designed for ease of use. Oh, and on a side note, lots of GUI tools, wizards and automatic behavious does NOT take control away from anyone. Anyone using Ubuntu has the option to run the terminal or even log in as root if they want to and do whatever they like. Just because Ubuntu has introduced GUI tools doesn’t mean that they removed the nitty gritty get down and dirty tools.
I will admit, however, that GUI tools can add complexity to code, but that’s a battle that the Ubuntu developers and community are willing to fight, and being their own distro with their own goals, they’re more than within their moral right to do so. If you and your distro and community feel that people who want an easy to use Linux Distro should stick with Windows, then perhaps you and your community should tell these people to not use your Distro, I would appreciate it if you don’t speak for Linux on a whole.
glorybe
Ubuntu does not try to imitate Windows. I seriously doubt that anyone in the Linux community has any interest in duplicating Windows. The reason that most Linux users have for using Linux is getting away from Windows. Windows is sort of a plague. But having said that there really are some programs written for Windows that I like.

Force Flow
I usually try out a linux distro every year or so to see how far it’s come along and how viable it would be for primary desktop use.
I’ve tried red hat, mandrake, freeBSD, knoppix, ubuntu/kubuntu…might be leaving one or two out, though.
So far, I’ve had various issues with each one through the years that has turned me off to it. Basically, I do not want to see the command line.
I’ve had to dive into it less and less, especially with ubuntu/kubuntu. As soon as the newest iteration matures and KDE 4 gets the kinks out, I may return to it again (yes, I prefer KDE to GNOME because there are more available options)

jim sadler
There have been situations in which older people had a younger relative install Linux on their PC and they continued sending email and photos of their grandchildren all the while oblivious to the fact that they were no longer running Windows.
That is really a hoot. They are doing exactly the same tasks without anyone telling them that their OS changed. They simply assume that some sort of auto update took place.
This being the case we can conclude that for a certain group of people Ubuntu and a few other distros are exactly like Windows.

http://penguinpetes.com/ Penguin Pete
Well, that’s going to have to be too bad for you, isn’t it? Ubuntu marketed itself as “Linux for human beings” – Which, I suppose, makes me non-human for not using Ubuntu.
Ubuntu goes out of its way to market itself as a beginners distro. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s an insult in *YOUR* mind, a byproduct of *YOUR* hangups.
Now, hurling a snitty fit at the rest of us who use a computer for something besides a crib toy and calling us “elitists” when we’re the developers without whom you would have NO software is a new issue you might consider addressing.
I’m done even counter-blogging this nonsense. I’ve already posted everything in excruciating detail in an archive stretching back 2 years, and the soreheads like you just refuse to get it. So to hell with you.

Jeroen
You might want to take a look at *YOUR* hangups…

Harry Buttle
Its a sad fact that, for many Linux users, the point isn’t efficiency or speed or lack of bloat etc, it is all about overcompensating for being social inadequates. They are the ones who really don’t want the average user on Linux – if they were, what would these people have left?

glorybe
Well, they would still have BSD! And BSD syntax is really harsh when one is coming from a Linux command line. Everything feels obscure. What a treat for nerds!

Dave
Satchmo, you want what you want… and *I* want what *I* want. Linux should be big enough for both of us. My point is simple: If a GUI is offered, it should work. And it should be obvious with simple in-context instructions how to work it to do what you want. And, if I want to simply work, rather than mess about with the CLI, I should be able to and shouldn’t be talked down to. That’s the thing about Linux: Choice!
Re “control”… why not make a GUI which works, and allow CLI as well for those who want to use it? That way you and I are both happy.
To me, Linux is several things: It’s not Windows, it’s much safer, and I have CHOICE.
Registered linux user #417229
tracyanne
quote::There are quite a few *nix fans that say if you use Ubuntu, it’s a “for noobs only” OS.
I don’t.
I usually try to steer “noobs” towards Mandriva, which is the original easy to install, easy to use Linux, as still is. In fact I believe it’s far better suited to “noobs” as the Mandriva Linux Control Panel really does make life much easier for such people, as it’s graphical, and it means that Mandriva doesn’t require that people have to use that “scary” CLI, as you have to so often with Ubuntu.
All of the technology iliterate people I assist in getting started with Linux are using Mandriva with a KDE desktop, and they aren’t having problem, and don’t have to use the “scary” Command Line.
No I don’t believe Ubuntu is the “noob” distribution, Mandriva is.
http://aronzak.wordpress.com aronzak
I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but people despise Ubuntu and Canonical because it has a huge installed base, and is generally the distro of choice for noobs, but the company donates virtually nothing back to upstream.
Basically, Canonical takes the rewards of Linux software but gives nothing back to the community.

Jason
Wait, what?
People despise Ubuntu and Canonical because we (I’m an Ubuntu user) don’t give back to the Linux community?
Are you serious?
Ubuntu is the fastest growing distribution ever. Ubuntu is still very much open source. Ubuntu developers write their own code or maybe even take code from other distros, what exactly are you saying we should give back? No one hands us our new features, no one who isn’t developing for Ubuntu goes out of their way to submit bug fixes or anything like that…
Ubuntu is basically a bleeding edge version of Debian, and Debian constantly sees benefits from our code. Also, the OS is still open source (like I said) and anyone can review/change/borrow code.
If you want some of our code for your distro, take it, when don’t mind. Ubuntu is trying to promote choices and usability for everyone, including you.
jim sadler
Geez, they’ve given back the most popular of all Linux distros. It seems to me that that is a huge gift. It is not written in rock that a person who comes into using Ubuntu may not eventually prefer another Linux distro. Bringing large numbers of people to Linux can do nothing but help Linux grow. And with that growth we will get more developers whether they are creating free programs or commercial programs. You may be kicking the wrong donkey.

Mark
If someone has a nasty or derisive comment to make at you for using Ubuntu Linux … then it is a fair bet that that person’s motives do not come from any desire to promote *nix.
The comment almost certainly comes from a Windows fanboi or astroturfer trying to appear icognito.
Matt
Thanks for the article. I use Ubuntu and Arch and find that that combination suits both feet. My entire family use Ubuntu (and it’s rippling out to their friends,) but I’d never ever expect them to play with Arch. So I get my command line and compiling fixes on one distro and just sheer slickness with the other. I’m really looking forward to Intrepid – I thought Hardy wasn’t so good, but I don’t bitch about it. Personally, I can’t see what there is to be so divisive about. I’ve really appreciated Fedora, Mandriva and Suse in my time – those are the ones I began with and sold me on GNU/Linux. I’m very grateful for that.
Maybe the detractors haven’t figured out how to multi boot yet…
AmblestonDack
I am a professional IT tech, with over 15 years and I can remember Windows when it was in it’s infancy and yes it has come a long way since the early days. If I have to put my professional take on it, it peaked with XP. There has been no innovation from the Redmond camp for years now, even Vista is crippled (and I am not saying that, because I am a Linux fan, but because I have been using Vista at work since it’s RC days and it is crippled believe me).
You are correct in that the Linux community is its own worse enemy. As you point out, for years the community has been chomping at the bit for PC users to use their OS and when they get one that becomes popular, out come the knives, its kinda like the UK media, when someone becomes successful, they instantly become hate figures.
@DavidM- One reason to use *nix distro’s is freedom. Freedom to use the OS the way you want it to be used. If games are important to you, personally I would recommend getting a game console. Yes you can read e-mail, surf the web, play mp3′s, play DVD’s in Windows, but with *nix distro’s you don’t have to worry about spyware, malware and viruses (what is the plural of virus, viri?). coupled with this is the knowledge that you can contribute to the OS, whether that be through artwork, translations, ideas, patches, bug reporting. This is not closed to you. Try sending an idea to Microsoft about what YOU would like to see in the next version of Windows and see how far you get. Hell even the development of Windows is only open to a select paying few.
I like Ubuntu, I have tried others (can’t say I have tried em’ all as some distro’s are server or firewall OSes) and I am happy with Ubuntu. So much so that I have used it at home 100% for over years now. I even upgraded the hardware in my PC and it didn’t flinch, now can you say that 100% about Windows?
Lance
If you look around you will find that even many experienced Linux users want a distro that “just works”. Linus Torvalds included. There is nothing wrong with a distro having strong GUI tools as long as the option to use CLI remains. If you desire that Linux has improving hardware support then you should want more people to use it. I use Ubuntu because I find it a lot easier to obtain useful software and am using a secure & polished Linux system truly built for the internet. I hope other distro’s will start to pay more attention to desktop polish (fonts etc) and fast package management like Ubuntu has.