I’m writing this from Ubuntu 8.04 in a live session (booted from USB stick). This *nix distribution runs well, does what I want it to do and runs just fine without complaint. Let’s forget the fact that it’s super-awesome-cool I can just pop in a USB stick, boot Ubuntu, run it, connect to a wireless network with no problems at all and do my work. You can’t do that with Windows or OS X. Let’s also forget the fact for a moment I’ve been using *nix distros off and on since Red Hat 5 (Apollo).
Small note before continuing: “*nix” means Linux or Unix. The asterisk is there as a “wildcard” to signify both, or basically anything that ends in “nix”.
Linux fans have been arguing – very loudly – for years that we should all be using Linux. They say it’s better, faster, etc. and you can easily escape the corporate shackles of retail operating systems by using it. Ubuntu finally comes along which is one of the easiest *nix distros you’ll ever use. It’s got fanatical worldwide support. It’s also got corporate support from companies like Dell.
For all intents and purposes, this is a win. The Linux fans finally got what they were looking for, that being a distro people can actually use as their primary OS if they so chose to do so. Lots of support, lots of apps, all for free, total coolness all around. And recognition where it counts.
Here’s what I don’t understand: There are quite a few *nix fans that say if you use Ubuntu, it’s a “for noobs only” OS.
It is this attitude that, said bluntly, pisses me off about the Linux community as a whole. Even if you muster up the courage, download Ubuntu and say “Hey, not bad.. I think I’ll use this”, fervent *nix fans say you’re not running a “real Linux” – even though that yes, Ubuntu is a real Linux distro and always has been.
It is a truth that Linux’s own community destroys just about any success they achieve outside of server applications. You guys got what you wanted and more people than ever are using Linux, yet you complain. You feel if the OS isn’t “difficult” to use, it’s not worth anyone’s time to use it. You believe that if everything can be done from the GUI without going to a terminal prompt, that’s “too easy”.
I have never yapped at anyone for using any particular *nix distro. Even if they tried it and didn’t like it, I would say “Well, at least you tried and there’s no harm in that.”
Why any *nix fan would yap at someone for using Ubuntu I’ll never know.
My advice for any *nix fan that complains about Ubuntu: Cut the crap. You’ve got far better things to do than be engaged in arguments in your own community about your own offerings. Those arguments are what shoot people right back to Microsoft – and stay there.
By the way I started on Slackware 1.4 and I use Ubuntu now. Evolve.
Sorry, but I think this article is ridiculous. I simply don’t believe that anyone would be stupid enough to say “if your distro isn’t difficult it isn’t a real distro”. What kind of statement is that? And how can you base an article on it?
Even if people said it, so what.. Please accept the fact that Linux users want and except different things of their distro. And surely these things depend on amount of experience you have with Linux.
In the Linux world we’re allowed to choose, which inevitably leads to discussion. I don’t see a problem.
It’s the kind of statement that is very well being said. I’ve seen it, obviously the author has seen it, and it’s also obvious plenty of people posting comments have seen it.
Even if people said it, so what? A lot of Ubuntu users feel very strongly about their distribution (like myself) and other *nix users talking down about Ubuntu simply because we are making a very noob friendly OS is a bit agitating.
Comments like “Man Ubuntu is for noobs Ubuntu sux its nothing like real linux” is not a statement designed for discussion, it’s a statement designed to insult. I think there’s a difference.
Fair enough. I still don’t get though how one can take that seriously. There’s no argument in a statement like that.
Noone uses a specific distro JUST because it’s difficult, and I’ll bet they’ll give you an argument if you ask why they say it. If the argument isn’t any good you’re allowed to tell them to STFU. If it’s valid, well, then it’s a point of view just like yours.
I’ve been using *nix for many years. I usually use FreeBSD or Debian on servers and some flavour of Ubuntu on the “headed” machines. Before that it was SuSE. Once upon a time, I built a Linux system from scratch. And no, I don’t want to do maintain that all alone. I might if it were my job or it was needed for a special application. Otherwise teamwork is really the way to go.
Thanks to everyone for making the FOSS world a great place. Peace out!
Wow, that is a lot of replies! lol
BTW Rich, I went to Walmart all their cheap USB flash drives were sold out…
Everyone here has some amazing points. My two cents is simple. Use the operating system that best suits your needs. I personally run BSD (freenas). Ubuntu, Xubuntu or Kubuntu, I haven’t decided which one I like the most. Also os x and os x server for work. Vista for gaming. And lastly slackware (backtrack 3), also for work. I am pretty good in command line, but still consider myself a noob. I just find that different distros and OSes in general all have their strong points. So again just use what suits your needs.
Started on Red Hat 8, went from there to Debian, hated it, went back to RH, then to Slackware, and then to Gentoo. Stayed on Gentoo until I got a real job and all that compiling time just wasn’t worth it, went to Debian, then Ubuntu. I’ve tried everything from the BSD’s to my own LFS build (It ran!) and I’m pretty confident I know what I’m doing in Linux.
I use Ubuntu. Why? Because if I can get the same OS in 20 minutes that other distros will give me in a matter of hours/days of tweaking, then I’ll take it. My time is valuable. Doesn’t mean I’m a “noob”, just that I know a good thing when I see it.
So, to the “Unoobtu” crowd… a resounding S.T.F.U. Thanks to the author for saying this far more succinctly than I could, and I hope that the comments on this post have restored your faith in the Linux community at least a bit.
Very much in agreement… been running Linux since sometime in the mid-nineties. Currently running Ubuntu — even on some servers.
I can do absolutely everything with Ubuntu that I can with any other system. Where are these “training wheels” I hear about? Nah… Ubuntu is more like a great sports car — but with premium sound, satellite radio, and A/C.
I don’t really want to spend my time getting my OS working the way I want — I want to spend my time using that OS to extend the capabilities already there. I set it up and go on to bigger projects — like home automation programming.
Some people say that Ubuntu is not a real linux.
This reminds me of this:
Some people say that the Cayenne is not a real Porsche.
Other people say that the only true Porsche is the 911.
A few other people say that the last true Porsche was the 911 993 – the current 911 996 and 911 997 are not.
I mean, it’s normal when there is passion.
Seriously, i think ya need to take a chill pill, personally ive used XP all my life, and have used linux on many occasions for the fun of it, the reason everyone is going on about how Ubuntu isnt a REAL os is because in terms of linux its pretty basic and hard to change, take Gentoo for example, ya build it from the ground up, and its really really flexible, ubuntu is like XP, its solid and semi-restricted, thats why linux enthusiasts disslike it, because its exactly what they want to get away from when they hate Microsoft.
I agree its a bitch when people diss you for using Ubuntu, but there arnt THAT many people that do, and far out, tell them the shut the fuck up and just use it if its your kinda thing, its not like your average XP user changes to linux because “XP sucks”. People ignore it and yeah.
If you want to use linux do, if you dont, well then dont, but dont go complaining. FFS.
I find this all very amusing. I have used Linux since 3 months after Linus released the kernel to the public. Took 3 months for me to save enough cash to buy the 386 to upgrade my old 286. And guess what distribution I am using, that is right Ubuntu. It isn’t about it being for newbies it is about it being drop dead simple to get it to where I need it, get KDE installed and going and configured how I want and then I am done. I manage 25 Ubuntu servers at this moment as a very tiny part of my job, and they are so much easier than the 3 Red Hat Enterprise servers I have to manage to keep up to date and running. Linux isn’t my job, I have enough real work to do that I don’t want my desktop to be a job in itself. I was running Gentoo, in fact I am still the owner of the internal Gentoo project in the place I work, but it just got to be too much of a hassle to keep that going, I spent more time tweaking it then getting real work done.
I have used dozens of distributions, SLS, Yggsdrasil, Red Hat, Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo, Debian, Slackware, Linspire, Mint, and the list goes on from there, and while every one has had its moments of glory for me, I have eventually tired of each for one reason or another and moved on. I am not even close to being a newbie, but I don’t take what others think of a distribution as a point in making my decision, my decision is based on if it works for me then great, if not it gets deleted and I install something else.
The one thing I will give Ubuntu over every other distribution to date, they have a fixed and understood release schedule, which gets me new software quick enough that I don’t become tired of being held back and jump to another distribution.
ANd by the way, if you think it looks like Windows, then you think Gnome looks like Windows and KDE looks like Windows and any other Ubuntu variant desktop, because Ubuntu really doesn’t add that much to the baseline.
This is exactly the sort of thing that puts the ‘average’ user off Linux. Why have you used so many different distributions? Is it just for fun or are they actually unusable? You are putting a good case for sticking with Windows.
Can’t people get that most people just want to get on with their work (or games etc.) and really don’t care about OS types?
The average Linux user’s elitist mentality is what is keeping me away from using Linux on a regular basis. Asking for help should not make the user feel like an idiot, especially when it isn’t straightforward process.
Not everyone knows how/why to sudo, nor how to edit xorg.conf their first times around.
I agree with what you are saying and think this is a major problem with online community; I hate the term noob. Since when has trying something new been such a negative thing, haven’t we have all been through the learning process once, and didn’t we all find it exciting?
I find a major problem with moving to *nix operating systems is that new users are to intimidated to go through this learning process, Ubuntu attempts to solve this by giving users familiar interfaces and reassurance with the whole ‘linux for human beings’ thing. Personally I don’t think that it sacrifices anything to do this, so why complain? The only reason I can think of is envy; do people really want to be part of a select few ‘elite’? Insulting new users is not helping anyone…..
I find this a good article for promoting discussion on this.
It would be foolish for Linux to try to beat Windows by doing things the Windows way. Windows has way too many problems to wish that upon Linux.
However I would love to see the day where our PCs are able enough to take software written for any OS and sort of auto alter it to run well on Linux. I realize that Wine and others are doing a great job but an invisible automatic mode of being able to run other OSs software would be a really great breakthrough.
After all both the storage space as well as CPU abilities of our PCs are growing by leaps and bounds. I suspect that what we are seeing is a lack of human experts able to do all things that need doing on the software side of the coin. Perhaps what we need most is computers able to write software on their own.
Probably been said already, but you can boot OSX from a USB stick.
…that’s not *nix fans, that’s the pathetic elitist crowd… Luckily at least personally I have met a very little of this kind behavior.
I myself have crossed over from Windows XL too Ubuntu Linux. I have always used WXL since I was first introduced to the operations of the PC. At first I was confused about Ubuntu, After teaching myself about this new source, I Have Become Addicted to it. 1 of the sales associates whom worked at the computer store in town handed over the disk Ubuntu 710 And said it is worth the try. Hell Yea, it was worth it. I am amazed how I can learn to create software for the Ubuntu Linux community and share with the world at hand. I have been spreading the word about how much fun it is compared to windows, which I seemed to have soooo much more problems with. I would be thinking that the sour mouthed people complaining about Linux, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, KDE, SUSE, RedHat, and so on, do not allow themselves the time to get to know the community and the enriching experience. I totally agree with the fans community, and not those with the cry baby tears community, whom cannot find their time positively just an experience that did not suit there needs/desires, and move on. Blah Blah Blah, I’m no expert on any issues etc. However I Have a strong desire for learning.
Just wanted to mention that if you’re not talking about anything but Linux it’s kind of pointless to call it *nix. *nix implies that you are talking about Linux and some other kind of Unix like FreeBSD, Solaris, or Irix.
Elitism has been a plague of the Linux user base for /years/, and I don’t think it’s going to stop any time soon (I intentionally exclude the developer community, where such elitism properly belongs). It began when Linux became more widely used, and because it was perceived as an “advanced” OS, even the dullest of minds kids now think of themselves as this fantastical super-hacker. Suddenly, everyone else is a stupid Windows user, and anyone who likes simplicity is a “noob.” Usually it’s safe to call these idiots out on it, unless they’re just trolls. Then just ignore them.
I think I can resolve the issue for you as to where this nay-saying comes from:
They’re kids.
The same kids that were frustrated and annoyed and wanted to be “cool” and not run Windows, but rather, *nix like their “cool hacker buddies”.
They sweat, swore, cried, and (probably with a lot of help from those “hacker buddies”) finally got a distro to work on their box.
Then along comes Ubuntu, making it simple for ANYONE to install. Well, they can’t really be elite hax0rs now, just because they use *nix…now everyone can use it.
So they have to try and put it down, insult it, etc.
The real problem for them is…you can shut them up with one question:
What is it that your “elite” version of Linux can do that Ubuntu can’t?
Answer? Not a damned thing.
The best way to reply to these idiots is in their own language:
Ubuntu or GTFO noob!
QQ less, pew pew moar!
Have a big cup of STFU!
Cheers,
Ghost|BOFH
ok so i read this article with intrest ive long wanted a fast reliable and easy to use O/S and id confess that ubuntu fits the bill perfectly i still use windows now and then so dule boot the pc but id say a good 80% of the time im using ubuntu for most of the time i cant falt ubuntu save that driver suport isnt grate but hell it not as old as windows ive a quadcore intel with 4 gig of ram and ubuntu is faster by 20% id guess any clown that says its not “real” linux is just beeing an arese its that simple am i ready to kik windows yet No will i continue to use ubuntu HELL Yes its just to dam good to ignore
thanks for taking the time to read this
reagards
Peter Dark
yes. i will always say this to everyone:
ubuntu is easiest linux and very suitable for noob.
that’s the way i like it. i use it for my desktops. for my servers. for my kids to play gcompris and childsplay. install it for my spouse. for my parents. for my clients servers, vps, firewall etc…
other times, i try out other distros and mostly i always back to ubuntu.
and when ubuntu stucks, i always back to debian.
running xubuntu:
I admit it, I feel slightly less bad ass for running Ubuntu with all its packages and support, especially considering I was a once, and still on some server machines, die hard Debian fan. For quick reference Ubuntu derived from Debian, which was one of the big 4-7 (these numbers are estimates and not meant to be argued, sorry if i offended your “more original” distro) distributions in the 90s.
Getting wpa-supplicant install, etc was a pain in the ass on Debian, so i tired Ubuntu live, and it worked right out of the box. Even better i still had my essentially debian machine. Files were in the same places, and i still had apt, and kernel-package (one of the best ways to build kernels). But i couldn’t help feel a little emasculated when some n00b at school booted up Ubuntu next to me, as I was about to do the same.
Now I know I seem like a pretentious asshole, but in reality i am just admitting what I think the author is perceiving from other Linux users. I have identified the problem and will now try and adjust my behavior.
Prejudice is most rampant in a world where it is taboo to speak of it.
Im a *nix and windoze user, generally i use Mepis for my linux tomfoolery and it is great, its pretty much kubuntu. back to the issue though, It really REALLY winds me up when these so called “elite” *nix users gabble on about other distro’s that are designed for noobs and if you use then your are a noob, in my point of view alot of people dont use a computer to fiddle with, alot of people just want it to work with. If these elite users cant even acknoledge the fact that everone doesnt want to be a geek and write their document in nano or vi, they just want to get the job done, alot of people are scared of linux because they probably feel threatened by it. they are like ” oh… its free?! well whats the catch? ” well if anyone is reading this then please, dont feel scared of linux, try Ubuntu, Mepis, or google for a distro that suits your needs, there is hundreds of different distro’s for different needs, plus the live cd will let you try it before you commit to installing it on your hard drive.
Please *nix elites, remember a few years back, remember that time your graphics card wasnt supported, and you had to ask for help. im sure you didnt get called a noob. WE ALL HAVE START SOMEWHERE!
Thank you! This is very well said. I’ve been a Ubuntu user for years, and I love it. (I recently tried going back to Windows for easier gaming, but I just hate it so much! I promptly changed my mind and figured out how to run all my games in Ubuntu instead
)
When I talk to people, I usually just say “I run Linux.” Then if- and ONLY if- they ask about it, I will either explain more about what Linux is or tell them that I use Ubuntu (depending on their prior knowledge of the subject). Pretty much half of the people who know anything about it (whether they use *nix or not) scoff or laugh and tell me it’s not “really” Linux.
At that point, I proceed to chew them out about telling me it’s not a real Linux distro, and adding a little guilt trip for *nix users about turning on their community.
Slight correction: “Linux” doesn’t end in -nix, so *nix doesn’t really include Linux.
I agree with you about the attitude some have towards Ubuntu as being for “n00bz”. It’s insulting and untrue. Ubuntu is for people who want to use their computers, and who may not be interested in tinkering with the innards of their operating system. It “just works”. That’s the only way you’ll ever get the majority of people to use Linux – make it so it “just works”.
You don’t have to learn electronics to use a TV. You don’t have to learn all about auto mechanics to drive. Why should you have to learn computer science, just to use a computer? Fine for those who enjoy it, but 99% of people don’t.
Although I use Ubuntu on most of my computers, I also program, run gcc and friends (make, ld, as, ar, gprof, gcov, etc.). I also write Perl scripts and so on – not exactly a “noob”. Still, when I want to just browse the Internet, write an e-mail, or compose a document, I really don’t feel like screwing around with the kernel just to get something to work right. So I use Ubuntu.
I disagree that these arrogant Linux users are the voice of the community. They may be the most strident ones, but there are lots of others who are far more reasonable. They are the ones who will ultimately help bring others into the Linux fold, IMNSHO.