Name an e-mail service – any e-mail service – that offers both a web interface and a mail client, by the same company, that syncs mail, address book, calendar, instant messenger, and allows you to connect it directly to your domain…
…all for free.
As you can tell from the title of this article, Microsoft and its Live Services is the only one.
For those that say “Hey! Google does all that!” Not quite – they don’t have a true-blue mail client, and this is important. More on that in a moment.
My story (thus far) concerning e-mail
(Note: If you want to skip this and get to the good stuff concerning Hotmail and the Windows Live Mail client, skip to the next heading)
As regular readers of PCMech know I got thoroughly disgusted with Gmail and dropped ‘em like a bad habit. Yes, I know I am one of the rare and few who dare (gasp!) state that Gmail sucks and absolutely will not go back to it. I know I am in the minority when I say that.
I also said I was fine’n'dandy with Mozilla Thunderbird utilizing IMAP mail.
But there’s a problem. I can’t sync.. well.. anything with Mozilla Thunderbird without add-ons. For those that wonder “Can you sync contacts with t-bird?” Yes you can, and more. If you want to turn t-bird into a powerhouse e-mail client, install Lightning then Sync Kolab. Then you can configure t-bird to sync your address book, tasks and so on to an IMAP folder. Cool? Yes. Very cool. It plugs up all the holes that t-bird misses, feature-wise.
But now you have another problem. On every computer you use, you have to install t-bird and two plugins. This is not an out-of-box solution and can get annoying right quick.
On the Gmail side, that service works best if you stay within the web interface (be it a normal computer or mobile device.) Once you go outside of that, say with a client, you lose a ton of Gmail functionality. Without the use of add-on utilities, your contacts will not sync to anywhere. Your labels will not sync to anywhere. You basically lose all the stuff that makes Gmail Gmail.
Enter the Hotmail
Here’s a few tidbits of info about Hotmail and why it, said plainly, kicks Gmail’s ass.
Windows Live Services has one of the best free e-mail clients out there; it’s called Windows Live Mail or “WLmail” for short.
This client will sync the address book between the web interface and the client – no plugins or add-on programs required.
The folders (God bless those) sync seamlessly between the client and the web interface. No plugins or add-on programs required.
WLmail uses HTTP for Windows Live Domains accounts, @hotmail.com, @live.com and @msn.com accounts. It absolutely beats the ever-lovin’ crap out of IMAP. Server time-outs? Non-existent. Speed? Way faster than IMAP. The HTTP protocol used for these accounts leaves IMAP in the dust.
Oh, and the best part: When you use WLmail, no ads. Zero.
(Side note: Yes I know you can use Gmail with a client and not see any ads either, however remember that you lose Gmail functionality when you do that. You don’t using WLmail and Hotmail.)
And for those wondering if Hotmail has mobile options, it most certainly does.
Did I mention that for other Hotmail/Live/MSN users it will update the contact info?
(from the help section of the WLmail software)
And no you don’t have to use this, nor are you forced to – but the option is there and that’s what counts.
How about having a choice of what type of spam protection you’d like?
The options you choose in WLmail share and sync with the web interface version.
No one, repeat, no one has anything that comes close to this. Not for free, anyway.
Final notes
Some will ask these questions so I will answer them up front.
How much space do you get? 5GB.
What’s the maximum attachment size you can send? 10MB. If you flip over $19.95 a year you can send 20MB attachments (and get your e-mailbox bumped to a 10GB limit instead of 5GB.) However the vast majority of people won’t need to do this because the free stuff is more than enough.
Am I telling everyone to drop what they have for e-mail and use Microsoft?
No, and this is particularly directed to Gmail users. They will adamantly defend the service and state it’s the best thing since cushioned toilet seats.
What I am telling you is to take a look. You most likely already have a Hotmail e-mail address. Try it out with the Windows Live Mail client and Windows Messenger. Check out the sync capability without the need to add-on anything.
And remember, PC Magazine rated the Windows Live Hotmail as an Editor’s Choice in 2007. It’s not the clunky interface you remember.
You might like it.
I liked it so much I moved my domain mail over to it.
– edit –
Yes I know I said I had a really bad experience with Hotmail in this article I wrote, but that was several years ago when that happened (way before even Gmail came into existence.) Hotmail is absolutely positively not the same crapola, hence the reason I switched to it.
Good points all around, and I’m with you completely — Gmail just doesn’t do the job for me. (It’s great for my dad, though.)
As for Thunderbird, I don’t look at it as a hassle to have to install extensions. That’s part of the T-bird concept: A solid core application that you’re supposed to extend. So to me it’s not plugging a hole, it’s choosing the functionality that you like.
BTW, you can also use the “Provider for Google Calendar” extension to sync Lightning by using Google Calendar. That gives you the advantage of having your appointments synced between computers, but you can also access them from any other machine.
Unless you are paid to write this article, you dont need to defend hotmail.
Just try one thing. try logging into your hotmail from world’s popular browser ‘Firefox’. lets talk about it once you are successfully able to login.
No problem. Here’s a screen shot for proof:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2879/hotmailpv7.png
How now brown cow?
Yup I agree with Sadish in Firefox if I login into my hotmail account and if I have to scroll down then I see some horizontal lines cutting the message text but when I scroll up its ok I mean half the message I see correctly but as soon as scroll down see the lines. I tried the opening page from IE and Opera also it displays correctly.
I don’t know for certain if Sadish was smoking anything in particular but I read the comment and my first response was “WTF?!” Thankfully, Rich, you replied back and I don’t have to have a rant about how stupid that post was. As you can see, YES, Hotmail works in FF. Even FF3!
I personally used to use Outlook with the Outlook Connector to sync my Hotmail account. Outlook was way too bloated for what I wanted so I went BACK (yes, I used to use WLMail back when it was first released at the end of 2006) to the WLMail client.
Reasons…?
Many of the reasons mentioned in Rich’s post.
I wanted the Calendar functionality of Outlook but stumbled upon Mozilla Sunbird and was pleasantly surprised by the small footprint it left behind. So I have to use two programs but they are both resource friendly – much more so than Outlook. The syncing with my Hotmail account is super quick and I have a lot of the functionality I had with Outlook. As WLMail is basically a re-branded/re-skinned/re-vamped Outlook Express without the security issues (and that in turn was based on Outlook) I still get everything I need without the slows and hassles of Outlook and the Outlook Connector being buggy.
Rich, you seem like a kid in a candy store in this post! LOL But I agree with you – Gmail users are like Mac fanboys. They are so dedicated to the product that they will defend it to the death. But I’m all for streamlined and efficient applications and if a change is required for something better, bring it on!
Great article Rich!
I have no problem getting into my hotmail with Firefox.
I’ve been using Hotmail for 3-4 years already, it’s the best email service/interface I used so far.
Ok maybe Im overlooking something obvious but when I try to connect to my old hotmail account (I use it for my crapmail account)through Outlook 2007 I get a message stating the following.
“Access to Hotmail through Outlook and Outlook Express now requires a subscription. Please sign up at http://join.msn.com/general/email” . Upon visiting said sight I am redirected to http://get.live.com/gbb were I am told to upgrade my old email account to a live account. I had done this long ago when live was announced. I proceeded as suggested and NOTHING. I still recieve the same message in Outlook 2007. I will try later with T-Bird. If I need to be a paid subscriber to Hotmail to use a client side program, that hammers a major dent into your argument. Even if this is only an issue with Outlook that is still a major issue.
I really don’t see the need for a shift as of right now over to Hotmail. Googles Google Apps servers my purposes and the purposes of my small business clients effortlessly.
As far as needing to install a few plugins to the client apps to get full joy out of Googles offerings, well thats just grasping straws, and a bit lazy.
i am using live accounts for all my emails
because it’s very good and best thing i like is it automatically short messages in different folders
where gmail using colors
Gmail IMAP works fine in Outlook and allows you to sync labels despite what the author says. The Labels appear as folders. If you create a new folder in Outlook, it will appear as a label in gmail. Google released Google Calendar sync that syncs the calendar in both directions. Gmail also imports contacts. Granted it is not all in one program, but Google designed gmail so that an email client is no longer needed. Gmail is superior to hotmail in the web mail category, and they are supplying the tools if you want to use a client.
Having a label as a folder is not syncing. In fact the “demotion” of labels to IMAP folders is completely backwards. In addition you have to know to set [Gmail] as your IMAP root.
Gmail imports contacts, but will not sync. SYNC is the keyword there. You can export/import to your heart’s content – that’s not syncing.
The tools Google supplies make Gmail no better than regular IMAP mail – and that’s bad. You still lose Gmail functionality outside the web interface no matter how you look at it.
For some reasons When I try to login using firefox, it says the email address or password is incorrect, but the same userid and password works perfectly fine in IE7. I wanted to know if others experience the same problem., but from the comments I see here, I think it happens only to me.
If you guys are fine with your hotmail, then go ahead and use it to your heart’s content. I have no problem with that and my gmail works fine for me. Have Fun !
When I use seamonkey i have to sign in twice to get my e-mail from my hotmail-wlive account. the first time it tells me the name and password are incorrect, the second time it usually signs in. This happens anytime i try to log in so i don’t think i am misspelling my password
I never have a problem using Firefox for hotmail. You must have the wrong password saved or something. Try typing the password despite seeing hidden letters dots. I use hotmail and gmail, but gmail is my main account.
My Password is not saved, and when it first started happening I started looking at my keyboard when i enter the password. This is on Seamonkey…I have not used firefox in forever.
…don’t forget that you get free push email by using hotmail if you have a Windows Mobile phone (without the need for an Exchange server)!
The only problem I see is that hotmail reverts to the classic interface on FF3. Which I’m sure this will be fixed after FF3 goes final but it’s mildly irritating when you’ve gotten used to the functionality that the new interface provides. The Windows Live Mail client isn’t an option for me since I have no longer run Windows so I guess I’m stuck with the inferior classic interface until Microsoft deems us FF3 users worthy of their shiny new interface.
Fix your PC Sadish. Been using Hotmail for years with Firefox. Never had a single issue.
Well, I have to say…I have both gmail.com and live.com accounts, and for somebody who pretty much just uses webmail, GMail is far more responsive and feature-rich (not to mention more intuitive) when using Firefox (all versions). To me, at least. I mean really…why host every single image on a different host? Just slows everything down because your browser has to do 20 DNS queries to get all the frigging adverts. Thanks, Microsoft.
I use IMAP sync on an always-on machine at home, should the worst happen, but that’s only for backup. I use Google’s GMail app on my Symbian phone, and it’s absolutely fine for me; certainly better than my experience using push email on Windows 6.0 phones.
For the record, I’m *not* a GMail fanboy – I’ve used live.com and gmail.com for as long as both have been around; I just find that GMail gets more use from me because it simply works better and faster for my purposes.
There are many who would vehemently disagree with you on the “intuitive” part:
http://www.askdavetaylor.com/can_i_disable_gmail_message_threading.html
i have the same problem as sadish, but it just does it once. i got to login to the live mail and i get the username/password incorrect. i just log in again and it works. for some reason that is just in firefox.
why is it that you would have to pay for WLmail to get it to work in outlook (its made by MS too)? i really dont want to install another email client just to get WLmail locally. because of that reason i have started using gmail more for personal use and my wlmail for everything else.
Good article Rich. My one beef is simply that the functionality of your email service doesn’t necessarily dictate its feasibility. For instance, I have no need for anything other than webmail from my email service. I don’t need a calendar, an organizer, syncing capability or any other doodads. Should I happen to need those things down the road, then I’ll look away from Gmail. Until them, it has got to be the best simple email service I’ve used.
I looked into migrating from Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail client.
Unfortunately, they decided to remove the ability to copy/paste HTML source code.
Probably not a problem for the majority of users but it’s a show-stopper for me.
I got rid of hotmail a long time ago, just today however after reading this article and checking the new hot/live out I signed up again. I since closed my Gmail account and inbox account as well. I never liked gmail as it was annoying to figure out how to use certain functions. I also didn’t like inbox much, for one everytime you deleted something it alwasys asked ” are you sure”. It also kept on blocking some websites I tried to get to from my mail, and never could figure out how to disable it blocking service. At least with live I can access all my mail from my desktop Icon, just as if I had outlook express or outlook..
One more thing about gmail… You can use your own domain for free. With this service you get 100 email accounts so all your friends an family can have email for free. I use both, I have had an Hotmail account before Microsoft bought them out. And now I host all my email from google servers.
http://domains.live.com
My main beef with the Hotmail of old is not having my choice of client. I actually _want_ to use Thunderbird so I can have the same client on Windows, OS X, and Linux. With Hotmail, I didn’t have that option without using the Blue HttpMail Proxy (which will now cease working as a part of the Live Mail conversion).
While I do agree with the Windows Live Mail client does preserve much functionality, I just don’t like being forced to use it.
Thanks Rich,it’s really good and I love it.I have one question,if you have to choose between Yahoo!Mail and Hotmail,which one would you choose and why ?
Thanks
I can’t believe this article glossed over one of the most important features of a webmail service – SPAM filtering! I have both hotmail and gmail accounts. Gmail filters out 99.9% of spam correctly, with very rare false positives. My hotmail account? I’ve just about abandoned it, as I get more than 80 spam emails in my inbox every single day – the junk mail box barely catches any – and it’s set to “High”! While this of course is only my personal experience, I think spam filtering performance deserves a mention in such a comparison. What good is the ability to set the level of such filtering when it is ineffective?
You have absolutely no proof that Gmail filters out 99.9% of spam correctly. None. Gmail’s effectiveness on spam is the same as Hotmail’s if you heavily utilize your contact list and specifically instruct to have those on your contact list as “safe”.
The game is the same on either e-mail service. The advantage with Hotmail is that at least you’re given a choice of protection.
well, I hardly get any in my inbox and if I report it as spam, it won’t show up again.
Nice. Totally agree.
hmmm…. yeah, this works great if you use Windoze… not everyone uses Windoze…
Only fanboys type “Windoze”. Fail. Get a clue.
Regardless of whether or not I am a fanboy, the fact remains true. Windows Live Mail client is not available for Mac or Linux; therefore, not a good solution for all…. only a good solution for people who use Windows.
Another thing to point out. I read in your previous entry that your loss of mail messages in Gmail prompted this change, and reminded you of a previous time when you had lost a lot of mail in Hotmail. I don’t understand why you would ditch Gmail and embrace Hotmail considering your bad experience with losing mail messages in Hotmail in the past.
Try reading the bottom of the article.
Good Gawds…a few plugins for Thunderbird that take maybe a minute to install and you take a crap on that? The beauty of Thunderbird is it’s very nature of usability and sustainability. Thunderbird can be a simple e-mail client or with a few plugins so much more. Lightning, Provider-For-Google-Calendar, Contacts Sidebar, FinchSync and Zindus are all I need to make Thunderbird as powerful as Outlook, sync Lightning to Google Calendar, sync my contacts with GMail, and sync all of that with my Sprint Mogul cell. And I’m not locked down to Outlook. I know Outlook is powerful out of the box – and I know plenty of people who use it and love it – but it’s interface and I simply don’t get along.
As for GMail and Hotmail, they essentially the same. I’ve used them both and my preference is GMail. I won’t knock Hotmail – I just prefer the GMail interface sheerly for the sake of usability (ie…simplicity). I’ve never had a problem when I utilize GMail from within Thunderbird – I use a global Inbox so it’s all the same to me anyway. It’s IMAP functionality isn’t nearly as slow and you would suggest nor as clunky. But I will give Hotmail (and Yahoo Mail) one big kudos – they’re both a heck of a lot better looking than GMail. But I’m not one for aesthetics so I don’t really care. And I’m sure part of my reason for liking GMail is it’s more of a go-between for me – I generally use my cellphone or Thunderbird for e-mail and only rely on GMail when I’m away from either.
Mozilla Thunderbird fell off the wagon years ago. Installing add-ons is still *manual*. Most of those add-ons *break* whenever the version number changes, etc. etc. Sorry, not good enough.
Believe me, I wanted t-bird to stay in the game. Truly I did. I was as hardcore a t-bird fan as anyone but the separated nature of the way it is makes it a lumbering lump destined to be vaporware if the Mozilla team doesn’t make some significant improvements to it – and fast.
OMG…PCM is quickly becoming the Rich knows it all so shut up and dance tech site. Thunderbird hardly fell off any wagon and add-ons don’t break with version changes. I’ve been using the combination I listed (other than Zindus which was just released) for well over a year with a number of version upgrades – nothing broke. And how else would you suggest add-ons be ‘added on’ other than manually? Thunderbird doesn’t have the heart of a browser – never did. Is it really that hard to find the add-on(s) you want and download them. And then add them via a pulldown menu? Are you that lazy?
One last thing…after my first reply here I tried something after reading one of your replies to another comment. I setup a new GMail account and a new Hotmail account. Imported my contacts into each while also including two additional e-mail accounts into those contacts list: my normal everyday SBC account and another SBC account I use to signup for crap on line (my SPAM defense). Both accounts were setup to view my contacts list as safe. I then went and registered on some random forums and replied to some blogs using both new e-mail accounts. I posted on the forums and made sure to post both e-mail addresses in those posts. Did the same on the blogs. The last thing I did was use my two SBC accounts to send e-mail to both newly created accounts – one e-mail was sent to look like a general e-mail (sent from my everyday e-mail account). The other I copied and pasted text from some SPAM I had received a few days ago hyping some on-line drugstore (sent from my SPAM defense account).
So this morning I opened both accounts up – GMail had captured 106 SPAM e-mails and let 1 through along with both e-mails from my SBC accounts. Hotmail and captured 93 SPAM and let 17 through. Funny thing…Hotmail caught ‘SPAM-like’ e-mail from my SBC account (the one with the copied SPAM text) as SPAM. Even though that e-mail was in my contacts list and should have been registered as safe. So I guess we do have some proof that GMail handles SPAM better (although certainly not done with true research methodology).
But I’m sure you’ll have some answer for why this Windoze fanboy did that little test wrong. But I’m done here – your over the top writing is hardly editorial material and smacks of megalomania. You’ve got to be related to M. A. Dockter from the PCM forums.
“OMG” = netspeak = fail, and it’s not PCM (that means Pulse Code Modulation), it’s PCMech – fail again.
There is absolutely no reason why t-bird cannot have add-ons auto-installed like Firefox does as it is programmed by the same company.
Your 2nd paragraph, I didn’t read it. Too long. Please go to http://five.sentenc.es/ and read it – thanks in advance.
Your 3rd paragraph, wholly inconclusive, fail.
Windoze = fanboy speak = fail fail fail fail-o-rama fail.
All I can say is wow…Craig’s right. You are a detriment to PC Mechanic is so many ways. David Risley should be thankful you’re not on the forums as that would be a sure way of seeing PC Mechanic die a horrible death. Might I suggest you read ‘How to Win Friends and Influence People’? Because throughout this entire article you have been nothing but abusive, rude and abrasively mean spirited towards the people that make PC Mechanic what it is.
BTW – +h4+ W45 5 53Nt@nCeS +O Help J00R 08V1oUs 4Dd +ENdAnCes.
Alan and Craig,
If Rich were a detriment, he wouldn’t be still working here. I will also point out that Rich’s reply to Craig was in no way rude. He gave his opinion on why Thunderbird fell off the wagon (his opinion). Craig, you proceeded to attack back on that and did so hard. I don’t see how Rich giving his opinion on T-Bird turns PCMech into a Rich-is-Right site.
If you’re going to come and post a comment with a big chip on your shoulder, you can count on Rich to knock it off. Hey, we’re bloggers, man.
If you want to counter back, too, feel free to submit a guest post to me. I’ll give you a whole article.
Ahhh David, perspective, perspective, perspective. It’s all about perspective. In a working relationship of course you’ll see that Rich doesn’t have a Rich-is-Right attitude. My relationship with Craig goes way back…so of course I see his responses in that light.
It’s not just this post that makes me thing that Rich’s ’style’ is a detriment – I’ve read plenty of his posts on this site and have generally come away with a feeling that someone didn’t do all their research (remember…I’m a researcher) yet has an attitude that not only is he right, but that there is no other opinion. Believe me, I run into that all the time in academia – it’s something I have a difficult time dealing with but I have to accept it. So after reading paper after paper with that same attitude, it’s pretty easy for me to call a duck, a duck.
But this is taking the topic completely off topic – which is not the point of a blog. But I can assure you, if Craig of all people gets tired of attitude (he can take it as well as give it) others have. Yes it’s a blog, but it’s also a place where people come for help. To respond to someone with ‘Only fanboys type “Windoze”. Fail. Get a clue’ (one example of many) is, IMO, very put-offish.
How in this world do you set your Hotmail account up with Live.com Mail? I can Receive Mail, but for some oddity can not send it??
And How do I get my SIGN IN PAGE of XP Back?
One More, My DVR, CD Drives are not working, How do I fix it?
I’ve Emailed my Brains out, my fingers off To Dell, and to Microsoft. Can’t find anyone who KNOWS ENGLISH……….They use all this fancy wording, and I have NO CLUE as to what they are refering to? So If you can Please help me I would Greatly Appreciate it!! You’ll be in my Prayers until I Die!!
Sincerely,
Kelly S. Sizemore.
KPockets8761@hotmail.com