First, I do not use any add-on ad blocker software (like you, I make my living from web site revenue). I do have both Firefox and IE set to block pop-ups, however.

I happen to agree with what you say, but I don’t agree with what you do. For instance you say “Or the sites which put a floating layer over the site which keeps you from being able to use the site itself.” and yet I frequently get an ad float down over your content prompting me to subscribe to your newsletter. How about having that slide down over the right hand nav or something rather than over what I’m reading? (You and I have discussed this in email and I know you are considering changing the way this works, and kudos to you for that consideration.)

Your site also has a pop-under, at least in IE (why I use IE to visit your site is a long story…I don’t normally use it). I find that pretty annoying as it’s one more thing I have to ‘tidy-up’ after surfing. I promise you I will never click on it, and in fact I can’t recall what is in it…I just remember always having to close that extra window after I’ve been on this site. Even if I was interested in the product, I wouldn’t click on that particular ad because the way you deliver it is so annoying to me.

Unfortunately, you and I have to live with the legacy of all the ‘bad’ advertisers that made (and still make) online ads so horrific that people were prompted to write add-ons to block them. Ideally, ads can actually add to your browsing experience if they’re relevant and don’t get in the way of reading the site. But much too often the creative for ads is crafted to deliberately irritate the user, I suppose on the assumption that negative attention is better than no attention?

A tangential observation: I have a yahoo mail accound and find the ‘new’ interface to be a bit irritating, so I was using the ‘old’ yahoo mail interface. But lately the banner ads have been so horrible on the old interface, with day-glo flashing colors that threaten to send me into a seizure. I finally gave in to the pressure and moved back to the sluggish ‘new’ interface that has much more appropriate ads. Think that was a deliberately ploy on the part of Yahoo? I sure do.

The real problem with advertising from a users perspective is how abusive it has become. I would not be using Firefox ad blocker if advertising just sat at the side of the page quietly. Instead advertising is so in your face now that it has become a miserable experience to visit most any website without some sort of advertising stopper.

I do understand the problem David and I wish there was an ideal solution. The best solution I can think of though is for advertisers to stop the in your face obnoxious ads which would encourage people to stop using the ad blockers.

David M

What do you have to do to get me to visit your site regularly and use Adblock while I’m there?
It’s not that difficult. I like your site but you have a poorly coded ad(s) that plays havoc with fire fox or you could have a pop-under problem from time to time.
I would block either but the rest of your ads are safe from my install of Adblock.
The fact is, and this won’t endear me to advertisers, I no longer see most ads on web sites. It’s a learned blindness.
As for sites with intrusive ads, or any site that keeps setting off my pop-up blocker, forget it I’m not coming back (Same deal for any site that makes my security software pop-up a warning.) so I’m not going to bother blocking any ads.
I’m not impressed with cries of “stop thief!”.
Web sites created this problem with abusive advertising and adblockers are the reaction.

I started using adblock a few years back when web owners and advertisers began to realize what a gold mine the net could be. Some of the ads got so bad I couldn’t even concentrate on the article I was reading. The few pop-ups and drop downs from this site don’t bother me because I really enjoy this site and the knowledge that its members and readers bring to it. I am well aware that advertisers pay the bills but I also know I’m here to learn and enhance the computer skills I have, not pretend I’m at Wal Mart on a shopping trip. To do my little part in helping this site I’ve purchased it’s products and remain a member each year and call it what you want but thats my “Freedom of Choice.”

I agree with your point of view about how important it is not to block adds. I can say that I do not personally care much about adds as long they don’t get into my way. I personally use Opera and I don’t use anything that does not normally come with it. So I am unsure if it blocks anything, but I know I see your newsletter pop-up add, I see the other adds on your page. Although I admit the newsletter is border line, the rest is fine. I say the newsletter is border line because it pops up, but when you click to close, it does easily and then ur basicly done with it.

I don’t really go to websites which cause me problems, so that may be the case, unless Spybot-SD Resident is silently blocking some of those bad processes.

Now how about newspapers? My subscription is “subsidized” (price lowered) by revenue generated by advertisers – am I stealing if I don’t read every ad? Am I stealing from the businesses that are placing the ads – in exchange for the newspaper, am I tacitly agreeing to read their ads?

I completely disagree, I think if someone goes out of there way to not view the adds it is his right. Personally, it doesn’t matter what the add is, no matter WHAT it says, I will not click on it and view it and purchase anything that company is offering.

By blocking them you could say I am cheating the website I am visiting. But that is very inaccurate. If anything I am increasing the percentage of people who click on the add after seeing it

Example: If 1000 people view the add, but only 50 people click that is a 5% click ratio, but if 500 people see it, and only 40 people click on it that is a 8% click ratio, much better… That is 490 people (49%) who would have never clicked on it that you will not annoy.

With these higher numbers it would be up to the advertisers to simple give you more on your PPV/PPC adds.

I have to say, I have a serious problem with your attitude in this piece, as exemplified by the start of the GoogleCache quote;

“When a content publisher places ads on his/her website, it is under the assumption that he/she is bartering with you. That barter is, in exchange for glancing over the advertisements (even if for only a fraction of a second), you can read all the content he/she has created. It is that simple.”

The owner of a website can “assume” anything the hell he or she wants. No visitor to their website is obliged to give these assumptions the slightest bit of consideration.

The World Wide Web is a Public Domain arena. Anyone can publish stuff to it, anyone can access it. Accept that, or don’t run a website.

You have NO RIGHT to publish material to a Public Domain and then expect ANY sort of recompense for it. You can’t just give something away, and then go around telling people they have to pay you somehow for it after all.

If you don’t wish to offer this site to those who don’t want to pay for it, put some sort of entry-system on and charge them a nominal fee for the resources

With respect, it appears that you’re attempting to make those who visit your website responsible for your own problems. For instance, I’m very sorry that your family is apparently unable to survive without the added income from the ads on this site – but if this really IS the case, then you need to find yourself a more reliable source of income. Please don’t give me a sob-story and expect me to feel sorry for you on this basis.

Nobody asked you to put a site up in the Public Domain; nobody’s “stealing” anything from you, because you’ve freely made the choice to run this site and freely made the choice of what content to put up.

But please understand, the World Wide Web IS NOT a commercial venture. You have no implied or otherwise-stated “right” to make money out of it. Quite frankly, I wish people would STOP using the WWW as just *another* excuse to make themselves richer. Can’t we have just ONE media that isn’t totally taken up with people trying to sell us something?

All I can suggest, if this issue is really bothering you, is to find and install software which will detect when somebody is connecting to your site using a browser which includes ad-blockers, and automatically disconnect them/prevent them from receiving the rest of the content. Then nobody will be able to “steal” from you if they don’t wish to view ads while they’re looking at your content.

For now, though, I’ll solve this problem in respect of my own respect by doing what you suggest, and not coming back to a site that insists I must look at pointless advertisements for products which there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER I am going to buy in order to browse it’s content. But make no mistake, here, YOU are the one wasting MY time and thus stealing from ME in this equation. – had I realised your attitude from the start, I would never have bothered clicking your link to begin with. If you’re not happy to have people on your site, don’t put it in the public domain. If you put it in the Public Domain, keep your whining about people “stealing” off of you to yourself.

Ok, so I DID come back; I saw your response in my e-mail, so I figured I’d follow up. Don’t worry, I’m not blocking anything this time. P

Ok, so you’re right – I AM mixing up the two terms, public domain and publically accessible, my apologies. Your correction is valid, of course, but changes nothing about my point; you have chosen to make this site “publically accessible”, it shows up on many search engines, there’s there is no warning or way of knowing that this site contains ads until you get here. Hence I, as a browser, have no way of making an informed choice about whether to view/download ads or not.

The fact is, I DO NOT wish to view, download or otherwise encourage internet advertising in any way, shape, or form, at this or any other time. EVER. That, surely, is MY right?

So sure; if it really means that much to you, I WON’T come back to the site, if the price is having to download ads of any kind. But bear in mind, you give no warning of that and make no attempt to prevent people from accessing the site unless they agree to view the ads. I’m sorry, but there is no “assumed barter” agreement between you and me, just because I’ve stumbled across your website. If you want me to agree to something, you table that agreement in some way and give me a chance to consider it – you can’t just decide that the agreement is valid. If you CAN… then please understand that I’m writing this under the assumption that we’re actually bartering, and that you now own me £100 for the pleasure of wasting your time reading my rants.

As you haven’t paid me this yet, is it now ok for me to go around telling people you’re some sort of thief…?

As for your second point – I’m sorry, I have no idea why you’re arguing with me about the WWW not being a commercial venture. You know very well what it is, you go on – AFTER, I might add, accusing me of making a “bold and false leap of logic” – to describe quite correctly what it is;

“The internet is simply a connection of websites. Each website, individually, is controlled by it’s owner and made available on their own terms, whether commercial or not.”

Ergo, the internet is NOT a commercial venture. It’s simply a connection of websites. Yes, your own site may very well BE a commercial venture. That it your choice and, as you say, your right.

But whilst you do indeed have the right to do whatever you want with your site, you have NO implied or stated right to make money out of “The Internet”. It is NOT a commercial venture. It was not set up for commercial purposes. There is no agreement anywhere that says that anybody has a “right” to make money from it. If you can, all well and good – but please don’t act as if that’s what it’s there for. It’s not. It never was.

A whole bunch of people like yourself have slowly turned up over the years and simply decided that they’re gonna use it in order to make money. Well, good luck to you. But don’t act like the rest of us are doing something wrong by deciding that we DON’T want the internet to turn into just another corporate-controlled medium, awash with pointless advertisements for products we’re never gonna buy. Nobody asked for adverts on the internet. Nobody HAS to view them if they don’t want to.

I guess all I’m really trying to say is, unless you’re making some sort of effort to keep people out who don’t want to view your ads, or giving some sort of warning of your policy, you really shouldn’t be going around calling people thieves just because they use ad blockers.

If you put some sort of agreement clause on your entry page, or perhaps got hold of the software I mentioned earlier which checks for blocked ads and refuses connection to your site if it finds somebody running a blocker… THEN you would be well within your rights to accuse people who took measures to ignore or circumvent your procedures of “stealing”.

Otherwise, you’re making no attempt to stop people coming here and yet ranting at them for making an informed choice about what content to view while they’re here. Which, if you’ll forgive me, sounds a little disingenuous.

For what it’s worth, I think you have a great site. You obviously know your stuff. But if the price of being here is really gonna be downloading ads, I’d really rather keep searching the web until I find someone prepared to offer advice without advertising.

Of course, it’ll take me a while to FIND such a site, because the many that are out there are becoming increasingly buried amidst the hundreds of sites which, like this one, are covered in advertising.

But of course, I’M not about to accuse anyone of “stealing” due to the time I’ll waste picking through irrelevent sites…

Best wishes,

–
Khrys.

Me again,

Ok, I wasn’t intending to start a jihad, here – in reference to some of the “Posted Comments” appearing on my e-mail notifications which don’t actually seem to be part of this thread.

To make it clear; yes, this IS a very good site. In my opinion, it IS probably worth paying some money to come here; the advice given, that I’ve read so far, is extremely proficient. In fact; now that I KNOW about Mr Risley’s views on the matter, I feel less inclined to actually block the ads (I haven’t done so, on any of my re-visits).

As Stolisnaya says above; the key issue here, for me at least, is the concept of “Stealing”. The owners/operators of this site making money from it, is not in itself a problem. Having unobtrusive banner and thumbnail ads is not, in itself, a problem.

But this attitude – as I said, extolled by the Google AdSense quote – that in some way a site owner has the right to “assume” some sort of contract between themselves and whoever views their pages, and then take the attitude that people are “stealing” if they don’t implicitly agree to the unspoken, unwritten and unpublished terms of this “contract”.

If I invited you around to my house for dinner, would you then feel obliged to honour some “agreement” I decided that you were implicitly accepting when you walked through the door?

Another example, then – let’s say that the owner of a site had chosen to make money by displaying links to porn sites – using pornographic thumbnails and banners.

Are parents, using “Parental Controls” to screen out this sort of thing, also “stealing” from the site owner? Or does the parent have the right to make their own moral call in this instance?

And if the second answer… why do those of us who fundamentally object to advertising on the internet not get the same right to make that choice…?

Once again, this is a great site. Best of luck with it. )

Best wishes,

–
Khrys.

To Khrys,

When you go into someone’s house, you abide by their rules. If they make a custom of taking shoes off and leaving them at the door, you do the same.

When you go to a different country, you give leeway for their culture. If you don’t, you might even break the law.

When you go to a website, especially one that is serving the purpose of bringing in revenue for a family, and one that offers LOADS of content that could otherwise be very expensive, we need to ask ourselves “Do we have the right to not abide by the rules of the site?”

This isn’t meant to be scathing, just realize what you are walking into.

To Stolisnaya,

You can’t ask DR to do something else. This website is his baby. Just read his short bio down and to the right of this block. He “eats and breathes the internet and technology”. You think you can come to a man’s website where he does the business he loves and tell him to change his life? Get real!

Mr. Risley and others believe that this site can give something valuable to people. Considering the content, the price of a premier membership is mere pennies. The cost to you having to look at an ad for a split second is nothing. The only reason it is so obtrusive is because you make it out to be. The site administrators aren’t out to piss you off with ads. They are out to offer you something you might need/want, and a FREE newsletter isn’t something you can complain about.

Basically, you are entering the PCMech office when you come on here. If you don’t do business by the rules of that office, well, it’s your conscience. There comes a time when you need to take some responsibility and stop heaping it on others. When you come on tis site that offers a service, you’d do better than to take advantage of it.

It’s your right to put ads on your website.

It’s my right to put an adblocker in my browser.

I’m not sure that anyone has hit on a really important part of this discussion. Part of the reason bandwith is SO expensive, quite possibly THE reason it is so expensive, is the amount of unnecessary crap that’s floating around (spam mails, flash ads, jpg ads, etc). When I started using the internet, before google was around and excite.com was *the* search engine, ads and spam mail were non-existent. Yes, there was a time when there was NO spam mail, no anti-virus software, no spyware, no malware.

The way I look at it, I’m using less bandwith by blocking ads. I have never used ad blocking software, EVER. I came to your site, and I’m afraid that your newsletter popup, and the text underline ads were the straw that broke the camel’s back and I installed adblocker on firefox. Nothing personal, just happens to be my breaking point.

I may reconsider blocking your ads if I use your site more frequently, but like I said this is the first time I’ve been here and I don’t know if there will be a next time.

Good luck with your ad revenue.