Torvalds, founder of the Linux open source movement, is sure to piss off a few Mac faithful. According to him, Leopard OS X 10.5 is, in some ways, worse than Windows Vista.
Worse than Windows Vista? Whatcha smokin’ there, Linus?
At the linux.conf.au conference in Melbourne, Australia, the chief Linux nerd was asked his opinions about OS X.
"I don’t think they’re equally flawed – I think Leopard is a much better system," he said. "(But) OS X in some ways is actually worse than Windows to program for. Their file system is complete and utter crap, which is scary."
He also ripped on Apple marketing, saying he didn’t think the release of a new operating system update should be cause for celebration and marketing. He thinks an OS should be completely invisible.
Torvalds Is Missing Something
For one, the idea that an OS should be completely invisible is completely contrary to the reality that is Linux. Linux, despite the testimony of some long-time Linux users, is NOT easy to use. Just try to set up dual screens in Ubuntu and you’ll see what a nasty experience it is. Linux is still very much reliant on the nerdy command line. I have TRIED to use various Linux variants many times and am constantly thwarted by Linux difficulties.
So, no, Linux is NOT invisible. For most people, it is staring right at them, throwing up barriers to getting things done. I know that that is likely to rile the feathers of Linux guys, but if what I were saying weren’t true, Linux would be much more popular than it is with end users.
I agree – an operating system should be invisible. It should not get in the way of getting things done. And that is precisely why I say OS X is a better operating system than Linux. And Windows as well.
Apple probably offends every fiber of the Linux fanboy mantra. The fact that Torvalds mentioned the marketing of Apple is case in point. Linux is anti-commercialism, and Apple marketing is notably very blatant. But, that anti-commercialism is exactly why Linux is not used by the end user very much.
Linux is awesome for flexibility, and most of the Internet wouldn’t exist without Linux. But, there is a place in the market for both Microsoft and Apple – and that is a place that, quite frankly, Linux will never fill as long as it adopts this philosophy of Linus Torvalds.
David Risley is the founder of PCMech.com. He is the brains, the thinker, the writer, the nerd.
It has been said before, but the goal of Linux isn’t to necessarily come into stride with Microsoft and Apple. Considering what Linux is, I’m amazed that it is as good as it is!
That aside, even though we can call OS X a mainstream OS, it will never be beside Windows, regardless of how good it is, or even how bad Windows gets. Even though Windows was a struggling OS in the beginning, it managed to pull through with critically good timing, and now dominates the market as though it got there 1st. Typically, the closest Apple will get to Microsoft in terms of OS market share is 25%, and that is all things considered even insofar as consumer awareness. This puts Linux in the below-13%-range, once again, assuming that all consumers even knew about Linux. Any other ‘freelancing’ OS out there would consume the remainder.
What this all amounts to is that Linus probably knows that he won’t be able to compete effectively, even if he tries, even if he makes all the right moves. I’d say he is in a comfortable spot to take pot shots at the market leaders.
What a completely stupid article.
You take a statement Linus made “…Their file system is complete and utter crap, which is scary.”
And turn it into “Mac OS X is ‘Utter Crap’” which is plainly not what he said at all. “…I think Leopard is a much better system”
You should try and write something interesting rather than just grabbing at headlines for /.
Er, pardon my pointing this out, but, contrary to your headline, he didn’t say that OSX was “utter crap.” He said that Leopard was a better operating system, but that its file system was crap.
I realize that, to fanboys, implying that any part of any Apple product is less than perfect is considered heresy, but at least *try* to stick with the truth, huh?
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[...] Torvalds: Mac OS X is ‘Utter Crap’," according to PCMech — which is patently untrue. But it makes for good headlines, I guess. addthis_url = [...]
While I’m no Apple disciple, your headline is, at the least, misleading, and at the worst, sensationalistic crap.
According to your story, Torvalds did not pronounce OS X “crap”, but it’s file system. There is a HUGE difference there, and you’re just trying to drum up hits with the misleading headline. Shame on you.
When apple fan boys get insulted I guess they stop reading and start retaliating.
I use Linux…mostly because I am sick of windows. It can be a challenge to use at time but I actually enjoy that. It really teaches me more about computers and heck even a little patience.
I would love to have a mac for simplicity’s sake. I like the fact that apple took unix and completely dumbed it down for the average user and actually made it work. However if you want to dig deeper there is the good ole console.
I wish apple would come out with more affordable hardware…no way I am going to spend 1,100 on a Macbook with an 80gig hd and 1gig of ram. That much money in any other brand would net me a much more potent machine.
Don’t get me wrong but it seems like Steve Jobs could make a “poo” and sell it to someone for $1700
Linux has come leaps and bounds in the past few years and it still has quite a ways to go…but I think with what the Ubuntu people and a few others are doing will bring Linux into the limelight at some point.
Linux would be awesome if the development community only had to support about five different types of hardware. Heck windows would be awesome if M$ only had to do the same. Apple has their overpriced hardware on lock down so I don’t think it is a fare comparison. I mean Linux will practically run on a toaster! Think of the implications lol.
I am not trying to sling crap around here. I love apple. I love Linux. I like Windows (luke warm there). LOL. they are all pretty good.
Cant we all stop arguing and just get along?
forgive the poor grammar I am in a real hurry.
Linux is not an operating system.
It’s a kernel, a layer of code that abstracts the computer’s hardware. It manages the memory, the file systems, and other devices. What you see on the screen when you use a GNU/Linux system is either the command line shell (BASH or what have you) or the X window system.
You say that it’s hard (if not impossible) to set up dual monitors in Ubuntu, and as a regular Ubuntu user, I completely agree. The GUI configuration utility that Ubuntu uses is utterly worthless, However, to blame Linux is completely uncalled for. What’s really at fault is the X.org server and Canonical’s terrible configuration utility.
If you have an Nvidia card, they have their own utility for GNU/Linux systems that configures the X server with no trouble whatsoever.
In short, Linux is not an operating system. Just a part of it. Do some research before writing something like this.
Interesting…Someone responsible for Linux calling Leopard crap. Who has the more popular OS? Why is the Apple OS more popular? I don’t even have to answer the question it is so obvious.
Some people want to know whats under the hood of a computer and how it works. Other people could care less and just want their computer to do what it is supposed to do..run software. The vast majority of people fall into the latter category…I know its hard for us geeks to understand that but Linux is for geeks…and Apple is not. You dont need to be a geek to use an Apple.
You’ve done Torvalds a disservice by misquoting him. I suggest you fix the headline to reflect the actual quote. In fairness to Apple fanboys everywhere, I don’t think anyone thinks HFS+ is anything other than hoary 1980’s technology that has been patched and extended until Apple can get ZFS to the point that it can reasonably replace HFS+. Interestingly ZFS, which is a highly-regarded file system from Sun Microsystems, will most likely never run on Linux because the license isn’t GPL compatible. I’d say Linus has about another year to poke fun at HFS+.
Haha.. I think Linus s joking by saying OS X is worse than Vista! I don’t agree to that!
What a fool. Linux is better than both OS X and any Windows. I have used all of them and I still come back to Linux for its power, reliability, flexibility and so forth.
I have Mac OS X Leopard here and Windows. They just cannot do the things Linux can. This idea that Linux people are fanboys is stupid, it is the Mac people that are fanboys and cannot see the flaws that are staring them in the face when they use it. Here is a list of some flaws in the recent OS X:
- upgrading from Tiger to Leopard results in a slower system (that is why Snow Leopard is aimed at performance issues–bad engineering there).
- X11 under Leopard is partially/fully broken (it worked in Tiger–Linux has the latest and greatest version).
- Java was screwed up in Leopard and only recently is starting to catch up with Linux and Windows–works perfectly under Linux.
- Spaces in Leopard is garbage. Talk about a ripoff idea from X11 window managers, that have provided virtual desktops for over 10 years;under Linux it works flawlessly, under any desktop manager, not just the one that Apple provides–catch up Apple.
You might also want to check the fact that Apple took some of their basic software from KDE (Safari, Mail, and some others).
The reason Linux is not more popular is not because there is something wrong with it, it is because most computer users are stupid and do not see the difference between the computer and operating system. They go to a computer store and buy whatever is there expecting it all to be set up for them, thus they get the pre-installed Windows crap every time because of MS bundling policies with hardware manufacturers and then expect to get it always.
And just because Ubuntu does not do exactly what you want does not mean the many other distros out there cannot. Try Mandriva, OpenSuse, Fedora, and so on.
I am a Linux user and I think some of the statements here are way out of context. For starters about the market share of Linux never going to be huge, who ever said that is the goal of Linux. Except for a few distros of linux, Linux is not a commercial for profit enterprise. As such it really does not matter how many people use Linux. I realize some Linux users make statements contrary to that but the fact remains Linux exists as an alternative to Windows and Mac. A free alternative, not only as in free beer but also as freedom to use the OS and software how you like and on as many machines as you like (no licensing restrictions).
Mr Martin I disagree with you when you say most computer users are stupid, rather than they just aren’t informed or educated on the options available to them. It is an attitude such as this that keeps a lot of people who otherwise would have tried Linux from doing so. Why would someone want help from you or use your OS after you just insulted them. Those who have knowledge and experience should share it rather than criticize those who don’t have it. I repair and build computers from my home and I take the time to try to help those who I have the opportunity to do work for with issues that maybe will teach them how to do it themselves rather than pay someone to do it for them. If it were that all people were like Mr martin I would never have learned a thing about computers for his insults would have prevented me from even asking for help. Those of us who know something have to have humility and remain humble because we aren’t the omes who invented the stuff we know, it was given to us by someone willing to help us and a lot of our own hard work…RAZ
Raymond is right, sorry guys
. Anyway, i’m waiting for a software to run on OS X, the developers can’t launch it because Java is still crap in OS X.
Into the fire!
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal. Ignorance can be overcome. Stupidity is the willful act of disregarding new information for emotional reasons. (And yes,I could learn from my own words.) Vista is ultimately just a way to get me to spend more of my $500./month on something BIGGER. XP works fine for me and has lots of stuff written for it. I love tinkering with GNU/linux and hope to completely switch over and help my friends do the same. I have a huge collection of computer parts and pieces to tinker with, but just threw out the Apple/Mac stuff as it was taking up space and could not be recycled.(They were still working) My mother swears by her Mac, and has worked in Typesetting, Pasteup/layuot for Kansas state High School Athletics Association. But everytime I visit her she is quietly swearing at her machine. Her old mac sits on the shelf collecting dust unsupported. I don’t expect her, or any of you to be able to build a bone stock 1967 VW Bus that will peg the speedometer,(100+mph)but we all have our stronger points and should celebrate them and share them with others that they not be lost on our selves. (Yeah, I know, TOO preachy!)(and mom doesn’t like to go that fast)
My point… Mega suck works for for the main stream, (Vista in a controlled environment)GNU/Linux still has a ways to go, and Mac makes cute Adds on TV! That’s my two pieces of over valued bi-metal
For some reason there seem to be a shortage of people who understand that a decent operating system environment needs to have “mousing” systems with all the drag and drop stuff for programs that one seldom uses, and powerful command line system for frequently done operations. There needs to be a powerful shell system with standardised commands. If one be a decent typist the (explicatives deleted) mouses waste an incredible amount of time running frequently executed and familiar programs.
For that reason Linux, BSD, and other such systems when equipped with xwindow and decent window managers are the only sensible way to do things. For people in science, engineering, and mathematics it seems ridiculous to throw away money to translate Unix programs to run under anything not POSIX compliant. Apple, to their credit, makes it fairly easy to migrate Unix programs to their system, and has x available.
It should be obvious that for an operating system to be able to do anything it needs lots of commands, and text based commands are far simpler to use than moving (explicatives deleted) mouses around the screen for complex operations. Having one’s computer screen covered with icons so that it looks like a church after a tornado is not a user friendly thing to do either!
It is also highly unsatisfactory to have to do everything from command lines. Thus a x with a good window manager with a POSIX operating system underneath with a good shell is the only thing that makes sense to people who use computers for serious purposes.
Someone stated the point of an os is to run applications and mac does that compared to linux. Mac looses to windows which more than thousands times the applications than mac. Macs are ok i don’t like them because i dont get to use them that much and are not accustomed. Though many people use Apple because it is hip. No other reason. I have many examples from mac to ipod. To summerize.
apple king of marketing and being hip.
Windows king applications and strong focus of backwards compatibility.
all things linux(as well as distros) king of being free and only free with many flavors.
All succeed and fail because of there strongest points I feel.