Why do people say macs are more expensive?

[Force Flow]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader This isn't a myth.

It is. I can can do all the same things on Windows and more than on OSX. OSX has a limited selection of tools (although, the only area I will admit the mac platform does better is photo slideshows)

Ever since its inception, the developing teams of Mac OS have always had a larger number of designers and what some call ‘creative types’ than any other OS's teams;

Usually because of the myth, thus, perpetuating the myth.

the fact that OS X is the only OS that can natively read PSD files is a testament to this.

I wasn't aware that it could. Even if it can, what can you do with the files besides read them?
On windows, Irfranview allows you to view PSD files without having photoshop.

Another example is the Mac keyboard having access to most of the characters in a font set, easily accessible without need to memorise a table one has to use with Alt+some number: (1234567 / !@#$%^& / ¡™£¢∞§¶ / ⁄€‹›fifl‡, just to give an example) for those of us who do professional design and typesetting this really makes our workflow more efficient, accurate and fast.

While I can't offer a comparison off the top of my head in the Windows world for an ease-of-use solution (basically, I don't use special characters often enough where it's a problem.)

@strollin, I tend to ignore solutions that come embedded with the OS as they tend to generally suck,

Yet you just mentioned two specific things built into the OS as reasons against the myth...

and always assume that the user will be running dedicated software for his purposes. So yes, when he mentioned video editing I thought of some program from Adobe or Final Cut.

The only reason to really get a mac is if you simply like it and prefer it (and it's perfectly reasonable to list this as a reason to get the platform you want rather than to try to justify it with flimsy facts), or if you develop with a specific tool (or tools) which are only available on the OSX platform, or you do development for iOS or OSX platforms. Otherwise, there is no great benefit to one platform over the other.

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader This isn't a myth. Ever since its inception, the developing teams of Mac OS have always had a larger number of designers and what some call ‘creative types’ than any other OS's teams; the fact that OS X is the only OS that can natively read PSD files is a testament to this. Another example is the Mac keyboard having access to most of the characters in a font set, easily accessible without need to memorise a table one has to use with Alt+some number: (1234567 / !@#$%^& / ¡™£¢∞§¶ / ⁄€‹›fifl‡, just to give an example) for those of us who do professional design and typesetting this really makes our workflow more efficient, accurate and fast. @strollin, I tend to ignore solutions that come embedded with the OS as they tend to generally suck, and always assume that the user will be running dedicated software for his purposes. So yes, when he mentioned video editing I thought of some program from Adobe or Final Cut.

Basically your saying that its easier on the mac not that the windows pc wont do it as well?

Adobe programs work just as well on a pc as they do on mac, and while Final Cut is a fantastic program after effects is arguably just as good and works with windows.

[Nuclear Krusader]

“Mac OS can open (and Preview can even export) actual Photoshop files (except for so-called 16-bit RGB files and really huge files). In practical terms, the fact that Mac OS X can open and display these files means that you could use a Photoshop masterpiece, complete with layers and transparency, as, for example a Mac OS X desktop background." –Pogue, David. Mac OS X: The Missing Manual. (Same source I got the “myth”, though right now I can't find the page).

Mac OS can also natively display RAW files from cameras and DNGs. Window's can't without special apps.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Originally Posted by birddog_61 Basically your saying that its easier on the mac not that the windows pc wont do it as well? Adobe programs work just as well on a pc as they do on mac, and while Final Cut is a fantastic program after effects is arguably just as good and works with windows.

They work a mite differently, because of the OSes idiosyncracies. I have to have the character table open in InDesign when in Windows, and have to take my fingers off the keyboard to scroll and click to select a particular character or ligature; on the Mac I don't: it's all in the keyboard.

[firesoul453]

There is a reason I didn't post that I wanted to develop multi platform apps...

You all can argue about the small differences all you want but what I was wondering is...

If your spending a large amount on a laptop (2k+), is there any reason not to spend the extra $300 or so on a mac, with the extras includes?)

Or

Is there a computer out there that matches all the specs of a mac and has a major price difference? (I have yet to find one)

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by firesoul453 There is a reason I didn't post that I wanted to develop multi platform apps... You all can argue about the small differences all you want but what I was wondering is... If your spending a large amount on a laptop (2k+), is there any reason not to spend the extra $300 or so on a mac, with the extras includes?) Or Is there a computer out there that matches all the specs of a mac and has a major price difference? (I have yet to find one)

There has been several posted in this very thread, if you can't understand that then just go buy your mac and think you got a great deal.

[firesoul453]

Originally Posted by birddog_61 There has been several posted in this very thread, if you can't understand that then just go buy your mac and think you got a great deal.

I missed the ThinkPad T520 in your post
Same process, monitor, hard drive, even if you add bluetooth, and larger battery; still $600 cheaper.

Good job!

I'm no fanboy and will certainly admit that this is just as powerful and has a major price difference.

Still incase your wondering I'm posting this from my mac and have no regrets purchasing it (I of course didn't pay full retail for my mac)

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by firesoul453 I missed the ThinkPad T520 in your post Same process, monitor, hard drive, even if you add bluetooth, and larger battery; still $600 cheaper. Good job! I'm no fanboy and will certainly admit that this is just as powerful and has a major price difference. Still incase your wondering I'm posting this from my mac and have no regrets purchasing it (I of course didn't pay full retail for my mac)

That's all that matters, if you enjoy the computer you bought and it does what you want and you could afford it then there is no problem.

[numbawang]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader “Mac OS can open (and Preview can even export) actual Photoshop files (except for so-called 16-bit RGB files and really huge files). In practical terms, the fact that Mac OS X can open and display these files means that you could use a Photoshop masterpiece, complete with layers and transparency, as, for example a Mac OS X desktop background." –Pogue, David. Mac OS X: The Missing Manual. (Same source I got the “myth”, though right now I can't find the page). Mac OS can also natively display RAW files from cameras and DNGs. Window's can't without special apps.

ahh im confused about this part, if i own photoshop or gimp i can also preview and save/ alter files =/ and if someone made a background using photoshop, they usually change them into jpg. or some other format, due to the amount of space it takes, so either way, you wont be able to find any photoshop backgrounds without already being converted into one image(i think??)

Also to be honest, i think you just pay the money for the mac OS(or w.e its called) because i can basically just use all the same components of w.w mac you have, build it myself, and presto, i saved a few bucks.(excluding laptops)

also about the laptop thing.. why would you spend 2000 on a laptop? Other then gaming i don't see any reason to spend that much, compare to using a $2000 computer. (as we all know, PC wins for gaming)

For the interface, i'm no expert on this, but i'm almost sure that windows have something very similar to the usual mac interface ppl keep talking about..

If possible can anyone explain how a mac is better for designers compare to PC? I see absolutely no difference, in fact i'm sure if they are designers they would just buy programs dedicated for that.

Other then that, I really do think your a Apple Fanboy Nuclear Krusader, from one of your posts in the thread "Mac rumors"

[Nuclear Krusader]

If you've never used Mac OS (which can easily be gleaned from your rather hard to read post), we've nothing to discuss.

At my age, I thank you for calling me boy, I take it as a compliment even if it has the prefix 'fan' preceding it.

FYI, saving to JPEG reduces image quality as it tosses out a lot of data. That's why those who work with pictures prefer to save either in PSD or TIFF. Professionals are into preserving quality and editability, not space.

[David M]

You asked for it Numb.

[glc]

Let's stop with the hostilities.

- Admin -

[LocoCoyote]

I love how these kinds of conversations tend to deteriorate towards trolldom....<<>>

Without getting mired in the "Windows is open, Mac closed" bull-marlarky (news flash! They are both closed!), let me say that my experience has been that specs do not equal quality.

It is generally true that you can bet better (as in "closer to cutting edge") specs for the same number of $ on a windows box. The thing you have to remember is that when buying a Windows computer, you are buying a computer with a operating system. When you buy a mac, you are buying a system (as in integrated).

Allow me to explain what I mean.... Windows is designed to run on/with a very wide variety of hardware and software. In fact, it is quite amazing to me how well Microsoft has pulled this off. A Mac, on the other hand, is a complete system. Apple controls both the hardware and the operating system. This allows Apple to ensure that the Mac runs with fewer problems and provides that "it just works" enviroment.

Let me now extract from my own experiences and try to illustrate how this plays out in the real world.

Some years back, I found myself in a position where I could burn some major $ on new computers. Never one to let such an opportunity pass, I ordered myself a top-of-the-line Alienware laptop system...cost me in the vicinity of 4 grand. Tops specs of the time. On paper this thing looked awesome. Too bad I couldn't run it off that paper! This thing was a dog! Mediocre performance (Windows couldn't address all 8GB of RAM I paid for. The 1GB video RAM also wasn't usable due to driver conflicts, etc). To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. Naturally it could have been that I got a "friday" system, so I worked with Alienware support (an oxymoron if ever there was one) and wound up purchasing another (newer) system at a discount... Yes, I am a sap.
This system was also a dog. Performance was better (still couldn't address all the RAM, but the video worked...sort of). Caught royal hell getting all the devices to work (system shipped with a built in video cam, but the driver was not compatible with the OS!)

Since then I have been through several other Windows based notebooks (including a T45 Thinkpad; which was a solid box, but the screen was terrible!) and have been disappointed in the user experience every time.

OK, so I made my first foray into owning a mac....a 2008 white macbook....which I consequently still use today (writing this post on it, don't you know!). Wow! What a different experience this was. After some mental adjustment to the new OS, I quickly found that I was getting more done and spending less time getting my computer to work right..... Since then I have never looked back. As certain aspects of my job are Windows centric, when I have need of using Windows, I do it on my Mac in a virtual machine. Its amazing what Windows can do when it has a stable platform to do it on.

I have owned multiple Macs (mostly macbook pros) and never regretted one..never regretted the higher price tag either.

SO, to bring this rambling post to a close, I say to you: If you don't mind spending some of your time getting your tools (PC in this case) to work the way you want, then by all means spend fewer $ and get a Windows box. If you value your work time and want to spend your time working on work (and not your tools), then go for a Mac. You won't be disappointed.

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by LocoCoyote I love how these kinds of conversations tend to deteriorate towards trolldom....<<>> Without getting mired in the "Windows is open, Mac closed" bull-marlarky (news flash! They are both closed!), let me say that my experience has been that specs do not equal quality. It is generally true that you can bet better (as in "closer to cutting edge") specs for the same number of $ on a windows box. The thing you have to remember is that when buying a Windows computer, you are buying a computer with a operating system. When you buy a mac, you are buying a system (as in integrated). Allow me to explain what I mean.... Windows is designed to run on/with a very wide variety of hardware and software. In fact, it is quite amazing to me how well Microsoft has pulled this off. A Mac, on the other hand, is a complete system. Apple controls both the hardware and the operating system. This allows Apple to ensure that the Mac runs with fewer problems and provides that "it just works" enviroment. Let me now extract from my own experiences and try to illustrate how this plays out in the real world. Some years back, I found myself in a position where I could burn some major $ on new computers. Never one to let such an opportunity pass, I ordered myself a top-of-the-line Alienware laptop system...cost me in the vicinity of 4 grand. Tops specs of the time. On paper this thing looked awesome. Too bad I couldn't run it off that paper! This thing was a dog! Mediocre performance (Windows couldn't address all 8GB of RAM I paid for. The 1GB video RAM also wasn't usable due to driver conflicts, etc). To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. Naturally it could have been that I got a "friday" system, so I worked with Alienware support (an oxymoron if ever there was one) and wound up purchasing another (newer) system at a discount... Yes, I am a sap. This system was also a dog. Performance was better (still couldn't address all the RAM, but the video worked...sort of). Caught royal hell getting all the devices to work (system shipped with a built in video cam, but the driver was not compatible with the OS!) Since then I have been through several other Windows based notebooks (including a T45 Thinkpad; which was a solid box, but the screen was terrible!) and have been disappointed in the user experience every time. OK, so I made my first foray into owning a mac....a 2008 white macbook....which I consequently still use today (writing this post on it, don't you know!). Wow! What a different experience this was. After some mental adjustment to the new OS, I quickly found that I was getting more done and spending less time getting my computer to work right..... Since then I have never looked back. As certain aspects of my job are Windows centric, when I have need of using Windows, I do it on my Mac in a virtual machine. Its amazing what Windows can do when it has a stable platform to do it on. I have owned multiple Macs (mostly macbook pros) and never regretted one..never regretted the higher price tag either. SO, to bring this rambling post to a close, I say to you: If you don't mind spending some of your time getting your tools (PC in this case) to work the way you want, then by all means spend fewer $ and get a Windows box. If you value your work time and want to spend your time working on work (and not your tools), then go for a Mac. You won't be disappointed.

Thats why apple is closed and windows is open, also that's why apple can charge 3 times what a good company would, just to upgrade ram.

When you buy a computer from a not so good company then you can expect problems. When you buy from a good company such as asus and lenovo then you usually don't have problems. I had very few driver issues when I ran xp, I have had none on 10 different computers after windows 7 came out.

Macs just work is a lie btw.
3 Year Laptop Malfunction Rates By Manufacturer | Statistic Brain

Apple fourth best among build quality study for portables

[LocoCoyote]

@ Birddog_61

IN my experience Macs do "just work"... one of the reasons I like them so much.

I don't put much stock in other peoples stats/surveys..... You can make those things say anything you want..it is all in how you slice and dice the data.

Alienware (now part of Dell) is touted as a high end company..the reason I went with them. (see...some of this stats in there as well...should have stuck with my own advice, eh?)

Windows is in no way open...ever try to get the source code? Before you say it, no Apple doesn't give up it's source code either.....

As for overly expensive upgrades (where even possible) and accessories....yes, Apple does charge waaayyy too much there. ONe of my biggest pet peeves with them.

In the end, to each his own. I think the only thing that is truly important is that you are satified with your stuff..the rest just don't matter!

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by LocoCoyote @ Birddog_61 IN my experience Macs do "just work"... one of the reasons I like them so much. I don't put much stock in other peoples stats/surveys..... You can make those things say anything you want..it is all in how you slice and dice the data. Alienware (now part of Dell) is touted as a high end company..the reason I went with them. (see...some of this stats in there as well...should have stuck with my own advice, eh?) Windows is in no way open...ever try to get the source code? Before you say it, no Apple doesn't give up it's source code either..... As for overly expensive upgrades (where even possible) and accessories....yes, Apple does charge waaayyy too much there. ONe of my biggest pet peeves with them. In the end, to each his own. I think the only thing that is truly important is that you are satified with your stuff..the rest just don't matter!

What I mean by open and closed is that if I want to upgrade any part of my system I can jump on newegg and order a part, install it and it will work. You cant do that with mac's, you have to buy an apple approved part usually from them. As far as source code, the only open system is linux.

Alienware is touted as high end by people that don't know anything about computers, just like their parent company dell. People that actually take the time to learn what makes a good computer can look at the specs of a dell/alienware and tell that they cut corners. They do things like list "ddr3 ram by corsair (or other reputable company)" well what are the other company's that they consider "reputable", you won't know until you open it up and see that they stuck gskill ram in it.

That is one of my problems with apple also, what brand HDD or ram are they using? Who makes the motherboards for them? I can tell you that foxconn makes their boards which according to pcmech is tier 3 standards.
Motherboard Brand Rating

Everything I can dig up on hdd brand is that they basically use whatever they can get cheapest. In 2011 macbook pro's they are using toshiba drives in 2009/10 it was hitachi. Memory seems to be the same way, they use whatever they can get cheap.

As far as the stats on failure rate, I believe them. They have been in that order now for as many years as I have been checking the stats. However that doesn't mean that you wont be the unlucky person to buy an Asus and have your board die 3 days after the warranty is up. Or that you wont be the lucky person that buys a hp and have it last 10 years.

That is why when its a desktop I will stick with building my own and installing windows and linux on it. I know that I used the best parts available and still came out cheaper than buying from a big company, especially apple since they put a premium on anything that has their logo on it. Now laptops are a different story, its almost impossible to build a laptop yourself. That is why I buy the best bang for the buck that I can get from a top tier company, then I strip all bloatware from the windows side of it and instal linux also. I run linux for most things now, but I keep windows on just in case I have to have it or I feel like gaming. I will agree with you 100% that in the end if your happy with it then that's the important part.

[Hi Ho]

Wow I didn't see this thread until today. I just bought a 13" Macbook Pro a couple weeks ago. I have looked at many, many different laptops and I just kept being drawn to the Macbook. It is, in my opinion, the nicest looking and best built notebook.

I have always been a Windows user. I use Windows on my self built desktops. This is my first Mac and I have to say that I am LOVING it. The machine is a perfect size, has a beautiful screen, and is blazing fast with the Intel 320 SSD I put inside. It cold boots in less than 10 seconds. My desktop hasn't even finished POST after 10 seconds. Boot time isn't really a concern on my desktop because I never shut it down but on a laptop it is because I shut it down much more often.

OSX Lion is a very nice operating system. I must say that I didn't know about many of the great features that I have discovered such as multiple "spaces" or desktops that you can swipe through with 4 fingers on the touchpad very much like swiping through different screens on an iPhone or Android phone. It is a great way of multitasking on a small screen. All of the multi-touch gestures are incredibly useful and intuitive and there is no Windows equivalent. The glass touchpad itself is far superior to any other touchpad I've tried. Apple really has all of that down.

This thing also lasts over 9 hours on a battery charge under normal use with the SSD installed. My old Toshiba was really lucky to get 2 hours when it was brand new.

One of the reasons I bought it was that I have a Firewire based multitrack recording interface that refused to work with my old laptop and through my research it is really hit or miss with Windows laptops and Firewire chipsets. The Macbook was guaranteed to work and for $1,100 I think it is a better unit than any Windows laptop in that price range.

I have tried the Windows 8 developer preview and the consumer preview and if that is where Windows is going then I will be sticking with Windows 7 and Mac because I am not at all impressed. The Metro interface would be great on a tablet but not on a desktop or laptop. I'm worried that MS will want everyone to develop only for Metro and leave the traditional desktop experience behind. I hope Apple doesn't take a similar path.

[LocoCoyote]

@ Hi Ho
I hear that a lot from folks who just bought their first Mac...it really is one of those things that you cannot fully appreciate until you have done it.

Good choice and best of luck to you!

[HAL9000]

Ok... I scanned through this pretty quick, so not totally sure if it has been mentioned... the "claim" that why would a PC person choose another PC over a Mac which is "better" for only a couple of hundred dollars more... did you factor in the cost of replacing my software?

For example, I like MS Office. THe student version for a Mac is already $40 more than the student version for PC.

Si here I am a PC user, I buy another PC... install my current software and I'm up and running... I buy a new Mac, well, I'm chasing down this and that for whatever purpose (and my time is money) added to the fact that Mac software is generally more expensive. So to make the switch to a Mac will cost me more than a couple of hundred dollars.

[acr98disc]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 Ok... I scanned through this pretty quick, so not totally sure if it has been mentioned... the "claim" that why would a PC person choose another PC over a Mac which is "better" for only a couple of hundred dollars more... did you factor in the cost of replacing my software? For example, I like MS Office. THe student version for a Mac is already $40 more than the student version for PC. Si here I am a PC user, I buy another PC... install my current software and I'm up and running... I buy a new Mac, well, I'm chasing down this and that for whatever purpose (and my time is money) added to the fact that Mac software is generally more expensive. So to make the switch to a Mac will cost me more than a couple of hundred dollars.

I also got a new Macbook Pro a couple of weeks ago, but that's for my wife. Before she had an HP some entertainment laptop dv5 with AMD and all, but after a year of ownership she talked me into getting her a Mac... because it is so pretty and everything

Office - I got her a free Libre Office. We also have and use FileMaker Pro - it is a cross platform, goes on a Mac.
Everything else that she needed was already there. Tons of free apps for download.
I think OS has to be chosen for the purpose, but if someone needs it as a toy, it wouldn't matter what kind of computer it is.
For myself I wouldn't bother getting a Mac because it is more expensive than my PC and especially Linux (!) which can do the same things for me as Mac...

P.S. She had downloaded a free trial of MS Office, it screwed her after a week, saying it can't save a file to Macintosh HD because it's full.

[Hi Ho]

I installed Windows 7 on my Macbook and it runs great. It is still the best piece of hardware I have used for Windows or mac.

[LocoCoyote]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 Ok... I scanned through this pretty quick, so not totally sure if it has been mentioned... the "claim" that why would a PC person choose another PC over a Mac which is "better" for only a couple of hundred dollars more... did you factor in the cost of replacing my software? For example, I like MS Office. THe student version for a Mac is already $40 more than the student version for PC. Si here I am a PC user, I buy another PC... install my current software and I'm up and running... I buy a new Mac, well, I'm chasing down this and that for whatever purpose (and my time is money) added to the fact that Mac software is generally more expensive. So to make the switch to a Mac will cost me more than a couple of hundred dollars.

This is a often overlooked point and quite valid, I think. However, any change of software needed would be akin to the initial investment you made when you bought your PC. i.e. a one off investment that only factors in when you first switch. Another point is that you can run all your current Windows software in a virtual machine without much trouble.

MS Office is one of my favorite bits 'O software...and I use Excel daily, Word, Power Point, and Access often (several times a week). The Mac implementation of Office (both 2008 & 2011) leaves much to be desired... It is not nearly as polished nor as functional as the Windows versions. SO I use the Windows versions in a VM.
Recently I have been working more with Pages and Keynote... These are both very good alternatives to Word and Power Point. Numbers is OK, but nowhere near as good as Excel. However, they are not free and represent another investment.

I do not necessarily agree that Mac software is generally more expensive than Windows software...I think most software is overpriced regardless of the platform. And there are plenty of free alternatives.

[HAL9000]

Sure, there are free alternatives, but even this can leave a lot to be desired. For example, our school uses Open Office, I use MS Office. Everything is fine unless you've used templates or any special formatting, then the transfer between the two just goes to crap. Since the majority of business settings use Office, I would much rather be compliant than mess with alternatives.

[Pctech]

I'm a firm believer of spending good money on quality products. i don't mind paying more for an APPLE product. Apple macbooks are known to last long periods and very reliable.

Take the iPhone, so realiable and friendly user.