Why do people say macs are more expensive?

[firesoul453]

I've been looking at macbook pro prices and PC prices and although the PC laptops are 100-300 $ cheaper, they include a crappy battery, windows home premium (not ultimate), no Aluminum body, heaver and thicker, no bluetooth, multi touch trackpad, no magsafe power adaptor, and no thunderbolt port

Even if you don't need a thunderbolt port, if you have 2k+ to spend on a nice laptop why would anyone not want to spend the extra 200 for theses amazing extras.

The only exception to this I see is if your in the market for a 17 inch in which case I don't see why anyone would buy a macbook pro.


I'm not trying to be biased but I am in the market for a new laptop and want to understand what PC user are thinking.

[jdeb]

I have nothing against Apple but I prefer the Lenovo T or W ThinkPad series laptops. They are built to last and are stable and dependable. In the event you have a hardware problem, they offer (via download) a complete technical service manual. If someone wanted a professional graphics workstation laptop, the W ThinkPad series is an outstanding laptop.

[Force Flow]

Originally Posted by firesoul453 I've been looking at macbook pro prices and PC prices and although the PC laptops are 100-300 $ cheaper, they include a crappy battery, windows home premium (not ultimate), no Aluminum body, heaver and thicker, no bluetooth, multi touch trackpad, and no thunderbolt port

1) The battery which is included often depends upon the manufacturer and model. In many cases, you can upgrade from the basic 6-cell to a 9-cell, usually for about $50-$90 more.

2) Premium is perfectly fine for most users and is OS X's primary counterpart in the Windows world. Again, you can upgrade to ultimate if you really need it. If you go for a business-grade laptop/notebook, Windows 7 Professional is available.

3) Most laptops are a plastic shell, yes. However, the Asus notebook I purchased several months back has a (mostly) aluminum shell.

4) Bluetooth and multi-touch are options available on some models. They aren't exclusive to Macs. The Asus notebook I have includes a multi-touch trackpad. Since I don't care about bluetooth, I didn't opt for a notebook supporting it.

5) Thunderport is brand new and Apple proprietary. The rest of the world is migrating to USB 3.0. I see no advantage to a proprietary, overpriced port--because it's proprietary and overpriced.

Even if you don't need a thunderbolt port, if you have 2k+ to spend on a nice laptop why would anyone not want to spend the extra 200 for theses amazing extras.

Untrue. I paid about $600 for my notebook, and it's my opinion that it's a better value than a $2,000 macbook, and supports many similar things that would be found in/on that $2,000 macbook. I won't comment on the cost difference for 3rd-party software between the mac platform and the Windows platform, since that's a whole other can of worms.

The only exception to this I see is if your in the market for a 17 inch in which case I don't see why anyone would buy a macbook pro.

All that says is laptops with larger screens are more expensive, in either the mac world or PC/intel/laptop world.

I'm not trying to be biased but I am in the market for a new laptop and want to understand what PC user are thinking.

Sorry, but it sounds like you are a mac enthusiast, and haven't done the proper research for the other side of the house.

Granted, I'm not saying the Windows platform is the best choice, as some prefer the OSX platform for its simplified UI. But if you're purely looking at cost, you can often get more for less outside of the proprietary apple environment.

[glc]

True Apple fanboys don't care what they cost.

[David M]

Maybe because they are more expensive for what you get?....including the more expensive software and peripherals. If you have the bucks, you want to keep things really simple, don't care that you cannot build your own and don't care about the limitations of a closed system dictated by Steve Jobs, then sure, buy a Mac.

I don't see it as such but if it is considered inflammatory then please feel free to delete my post.

[strollin]

People say Macs are more expensive because, quite frankly, they are.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by strollin People say Macs are more expensive because, quite frankly, they are.

Macs make very good laptops and are of high quality. You are going to pay for their caps and voltage regulator modules. Just like we do with an Asus desktop board or Lenovo laptop board.

[firesoul453]

@jdeb
lol I never understood why people like lenovo. to me me they look horrible and always seem underpowered. But I'm always glad for more competition

@Force Flow
Yes from the opition I already have I do like apple computers better, but now since I finally have 2k to spend on a laptop I am wondering what some peoples opinons are. Since I personally don't see why anyone would not want to pay the extra 200 or so $ when they have 2+k to spend on a high end laptop.
As you've said you bought a $600 laptop, so of course 1+k more for a mac would be a huge difference

@glc
Well I'm not an apple fanboy and defneitly worry about the cost

@David M
I don't really see how its a closed system, you cannot install OS X on unsupported hardware (with ease) but its still an open platform and mac do support windows.
I don't think anyone builds their own laptops....
So what I was asking is why people wouldn't pay the few extra hundred for the extras when they have 2k to spend

@strollin
See line above..
and since you get more for your money (or it seem to me you do. I asked so people would show me if I'm right or wrong) they really are about the same price




So seems like most of you think that macs are not worth the few extra hundred dollars. I am wondering why not, If you have 2k to spend?
Or do many of you just hate apple as a company?

[David M]

I think Apple is a great company. It has a very high profit margin for a tech company and I have traded in and out of it numerous times. The only thing I would say I dislike is its closed architecture (compared to Windows based machines), the higher prices and the limited software, especially gaming software, but I am a gamer...so what can I say?

But to each his own. I certainly don't fault Mac users for being Mac users. Different people have different needs with their computers.

[strollin]

The thing that is cool about Mac laptops is the magnetic power connector but I'm not willing to pay $$$$ for it. Other than that, not interested.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by firesoul453 @jdeb lol I never understood why people like lenovo. to me me they look horrible and always seem underpowered. But I'm always glad for more competition So seems like most of you think that macs are not worth the few extra hundred dollars. I am wondering why not, If you have 2k to spend? Or do many of you just hate apple as a company?

I like the way they look and feel but that is my taste. I love Track Point, every Think Pad I own (nice collection) does not have a track pad, hate them. Any T or W series are not underpowered, I would put them up against any laptop out there.

I have taken a few Macs apart and they are high quality no doubt. If I had to choose between a 2000.00 Mac and a 2000.00 Think Pad, I would go for the Think Pad because the quality is the same if not higher and I do not care for the OS. Also, the replacement parts are better priced as well.

Dell Latitude makes a great unit as well in terms of quality, staility and performance.

[glc]

lol I never understood why people like lenovo. to me me they look horrible and always seem underpowered. But I'm always glad for more competition

Lenovo's selling points are construction quality and reliability, along with a solid support network. The "T" series Thinkpads have been THE standard in business laptops for many years - dating back to when they were IBM. The only business laptops that come close are Dell Latitudes and the ruggedized Panasonic Toughbooks.

Exactly what do you want your laptop to do? THAT should be what drives your choice.

[Force Flow]

Originally Posted by firesoul453 So seems like most of you think that macs are not worth the few extra hundred dollars. I am wondering why not, If you have 2k to spend? Or do many of you just hate apple as a company?

Apple has done very well within their niche.

But...that niche doesn't work for me (and a few others) because:
1) It's a closed environment with limited customization options, a limited pool of available software, and proprietary hardware/interfaces.
2) Everything costs money and/or is expensive.
3) Apple doesn't support older hardware/software for very long before a new version comes out.
4) As my opinion, I feel I can get a better value elsewhere (similar or the same options/features for a lower price without sacrificing quality).
5) If I have money to spend, I get the best value at the lowest/fairest price and save the rest for something else. I don't feel the need to waste it unnecessarily.

But, like glc says, it all comes down to what you want your equipment to do.

[Nuclear Krusader]

It's mostly about the OS. Some hate it, some of us love it. You try it and decide for yourself. Then it's about what you want the machine to do and what apps you need. (You realise you happened to ask these questions in a Windows-loving forum, do you? )

The build is top quality. Unlike most cheap-o Windows laptops, Apple includes the recovery media so you don't have to pay extra to get it or waste time burning recovery DVDs. Also, Apple doesn't pre-load their systems with tons of useless crap and software trials that you have to spend time uninstalling; whatever software is bundled with a Mac is actually useful.

As for customisation, it all comes down how much you want to tweak the system. Customisation options are many and varied, and now with the App Store (which I particularly don't care for) you can add more stuff that you need. There are also many apps and customisation tools that are free. You can even customise more by manually editing system files/images, or using the Unix tools that ship with the OS DVD (X11), or creating your own images, effects, etc. The possibilities are endless.

One thing I'd recommend against is Apple Care. Now, that is expensive and not needed in many cases. The standard warranty is sufficient and some credit cards already provide you with some sort of extended warranty.

[Bronxbomber90]

The only thing I like about Apple is the music accessory PERIOD! a 2K Apple computer vs a 2K custom computer custom WINS and no doubt better spec then the Apple. By the way in the future if you want to upgrade having an Apple is much more expensive so no thank you.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Not that the Apple needs all of those "better specs". I have found OS X to be much less of a resource hog than Windows is.

[quartet-man]

I hate that companies don't often provide recovery media, but DO often provide a bunch of added crap. However, the price difference is so great most can deal with those things.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Well, that's precisely how those companies can keep the prices low, that and using cheap plastic and components made by the lowest bidder. Just look at the 500-dollar laptops and there's not much difference in the build between them and a pocket calculator. Laptops that are better built and with less crap and even that come with recovery media (as some Lenovos) are in the 1K range, the same range as the Macbook.

Of course Apple will add a certain "premium" to the cost, but even then, the price of their laptops is about the same price a Windows notebook would be if it used top quality components, shipped with no crapware and came with recovery media and a printed manual.

What is indeed expensive direct from Apple are hardware upgrades. But ever since Macs started using Intel processors one can purchase upgrades from other vendors and save money; case in point: memory, you can get it directly from Crucial for much less than from the Apple store.

[quartet-man]

I didn't realize Macbooks were in the same price range as Lenovos.

[birddog_61]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/lenovof.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/macvi.jpg

That lenovo is close in processor speed, screen resolution (1920x1080 vs 1440x900). It has the same speed and amount of ram(4gb ddr3 1333), as well as a faster but smaller HDD.(500gb 7200rpm vs 750gb 5200rpm)
Lenovo $1391.20 Mac $2199.00
I will take the Lenovo any day of the week.

Edited to fix processor comparison

[firesoul453]

Intersting comparison but that macbook's processor would blow that lenovos processor out of the water (there is a lot more to a process than base speed)

Here is a much closer comparison

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/32850775.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/87831803.png/

Macbook is a little less than $500 more
Much closer processor
Same screen, ram, and hardrive




Anyway thanks for everyone's options! I always like to see both sides before makes such a huge purchase.

[Nuclear Krusader]

With discounts. We were discussing real prices, in which case it's more expensive.

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by firesoul453 Intersting comparison but that macbook's processor would blow that lenovos processor out of the water (there is a lot more to a process than base speed) Here is a much closer comparison ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Macbook is a little less than $500 more Much closer processor Same screen, ram, and hardrive Anyway thanks for everyone's options! I always like to see both sides before makes such a huge purchase.

Please, the only differences in the processors from my comparison were the lenovo is dual core and has 4mb of l3 the mac is quad and6mb of l3. The lenovo processor is dang close in speed at most things, and the computer cost little more than half of the mac. Stop trying to spin things to make the mac price reasonable, because its not.
Also there are optional processors on the lenovo with 4 cores 6mb of l3 and 8mb of l3, both with higher clock speeds and still much cheaper.

Take this example, same ram, same display res, same everything except its processor is faster (quad vs quad more l3 cache higher clock speed) and the HDD is 500gb 7200rpm.
$1600 vs 2200
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/lenovog.png/

Here is an asus that is close in specs.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220959
$1070.00 vs 2100 no "sale price"

This one destroys the mac in everything except that the processors are right there together in speed.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834230103
The graphics card in this is miles and miles ahead of the offering in the mac, and its $400 cheaper.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Firesoul, what do you need the machine for?

Macs are mostly about the OS, that's why "this proc destroys this other one" is rather irrelevant, as OS X is different than Windows at the very core. Additionally, Macs can run Windows, if you have the need for it. Raw system specs is not a fair nor truthful comparison; the kernels are different and use resources differently.

So again, what are you going to use the machine for? Which apps are you going to be running and so? Yes, there are some things that run better on Windows and viceversa.

[firesoul453]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader Firesoul, what do you need the machine for? Macs are mostly about the OS, that's why "this proc destroys this other one" is rather irrelevant, as OS X is different than Windows at the very core. Additionally, Macs can run Windows, if you have the need for it. Raw system specs is not a fair nor truthful comparison; the kernels are different and use resources differently. So again, what are you going to use the machine for? Which apps are you going to be running and so? Yes, there are some things that run better on Windows and viceversa.

I am going to college for computer science and would like to develop multi platform software ( Mac and PC) as well as maybe multi platform mobile apps in the future

Being a college laptop, durability and battery life is important to me. Macs also seem to be more portable and lightweight

As a hobby my friends and I sometime make videos for youtube. The process makes video conversion super fast and the little rendering I'd do very speedy.

I'd also use it to play games sometimes (like starcraft II) but still have my ps3 as my primary game system. I have no need for a 3D card that has so much ram that it can run games at the extreme resolutions that extend over 3 or so monitors.
When choosing a laptop I have yet to find a laptop that matches the all power of a mac (especially the processor) and has a major price difference.

But hey I'm no fanboy, I LOVE competition, with apple's recent growth I'm glad other companies still stay strong, competition is good for everyone. I know plenty of people who would love a macbook and plenty of people who wouldn't dream of buying anything that doesn't only run windows.

[glc]

would like to develop multi platform software ( Mac and PC)

That is the ONLY reason among all you listed that would lead me to buy a Mac. You have a legitimate NEED for a Mac.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Originally Posted by firesoul453 I am going to college for computer science and would like to develop multi platform software ( Mac and PC) as well as maybe multi platform mobile apps in the future Being a college laptop, durability and battery life is important to me. Macs also seem to be more portable and lightweight As a hobby my friends and I sometime make videos for youtube. The process makes video conversion super fast and the little rendering I'd do very speedy. When choosing a laptop I have yet to find a laptop that matches the all power of a mac (especially the processor) and has a major price difference.

• As G said, a Mac is your only choice.
• Macs have better autonomy when it comes to battery. Mine can run for 7 hours (provided I'm not taxing it by playing a DVD movie, or having the volume set too high, etc.).
• Macs are better for video creation, editing and design in general.
• They are indeed more portable and lightweight.
• Macbook Pros have illuminated keyboards that allow you to type in dark or dim environments, such as a classroom whose lights have been dimmed to use a projector. Top that Windows laptops! (Of course, the LED illumination for the keyboard drains battery, but you don't have to have it full brightness: mid-brightness is more than enough.)

[birddog_61]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader As G said, a Mac is your only choice. Macs have better autonomy when it comes to battery. Mine can run for 7 hours (provided I'm not taxing it by playing a DVD movie, or having the volume set too high, etc.). Macs are better for video creation, editing and design in general. They are indeed more portable and lightweight. Macbook Pros have illuminated keyboards that allow you to type in dark or dim environments, such as a classroom whose lights have been dimmed to use a projector. Top that Windows laptops! (Of course, the LED illumination for the keyboard drains battery, but you don't have to have it full brightness: mid-brightness is more than enough.)

[*] Yep if your designing for mac you have to have a mac
[*] Plenty of windows based laptops can run 7 hours
[*] that seems to be the standard myth, I don't buy it but a lot do
[*] There are plenty of windows laptops that are just as portable and lightweight, besides your talking about 5 pounds even for a heavy laptop. If you cant carry that then you have bigger problems than laptop portability
[*] Lots of laptops have illuminated keyboards not just macbooks, the g74sx I linked above has this feature

[strollin]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader ...[*]Macs are better for video creation, editing and design in general. ...

In regards to the point above, are people talking about some expensive video editing software available for the Mac? The reason I ask is because when I had my Mac, I tried to use the lame iMovie software that came with it and found it was virtually unusable. Whenever I tried to access videos on my network to use them in a project, it was spinning beach ball time. Finder had no trouble accessing the network, only iMovie. I personally found Win Movie Maker to be far, far superior to work with.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Originally Posted by birddog_61 [*] that seems to be the standard myth, I don't buy it but a lot do

This isn't a myth. Ever since its inception, the developing teams of Mac OS have always had a larger number of designers and what some call ‘creative types’ than any other OS's teams; the fact that OS X is the only OS that can natively read PSD files is a testament to this. Another example is the Mac keyboard having access to most of the characters in a font set, easily accessible without need to memorise a table one has to use with Alt+some number: (1234567 / !@#$%^& / ¡™£¢∞§¶ / ⁄€‹›fifl‡, just to give an example) for those of us who do professional design and typesetting this really makes our workflow more efficient, accurate and fast.

@strollin, I tend to ignore solutions that come embedded with the OS as they tend to generally suck, and always assume that the user will be running dedicated software for his purposes. So yes, when he mentioned video editing I thought of some program from Adobe or Final Cut.