Hello Gmail .. goodbye Gmail

[Statica]

So by now, a lot of you must have secured your way to a 1000 MB gmail account. What do you think of it?

For the first time today, ads started showing up on my Gmail conversation pages.

I'll tell you my impressions; I liked getting to gmail to see what the hype was about, and having seen it - I will NOT use such an obtrusive system of advertisements. It might be a robot doing it, but it sure is logged as well. I am sticking with my hotmail and yahoo accounts. You'd be surprised by how obtrusive and direct this advertising is. It comes up as a "related pages" link on the side of the mailbox. It is EXTREMELY direct. I purposely started a conversation about restaurants in Toronto; and immediately I started getting ads about restaurants and reviews in Toronto. (Someone) asked me about the meaning of my sig on gmail and it moved me to an ad about Philosophy links. I asked (someone) about how they found the movie Farenheit 9/11 and sure enough there were ads about that.
I cannot stand the thought of scripts and robots filtering through my private contents; of logging my likes/dislikes/needs and then positioning itself. Right now, the ads are rather small, but is there any guarantee that we arent going to be faced with animated ads or popups that shove us to pages google wants us to go to.
Now I don't want to go on a more paranoid trip than I usually take, but I ended my conversations from the previous threads with "Gmail's system of ads is crap and obtrusive ...." and the ads for the conversation stopped displaying themselves. You decide whether it was coincidence or with purpose.

The conversation layout, is rather inane IMO. Makes navigation throughout a long thread rather irritating. Of course, it's nothing revolutionary (remember ye olde newgroups); but its not more convenient.

The only good I could see was:
1) The interface thus far is rather clean, not eye-catching, but clean
2) Keyboard shortcuts are great

Believe me, when I say that 1GB is nothing more than a hook to get you shoved with ads; Can you imagine your inbox full of threads from 3 years ago? Google is probably counting on its users not using the 1GB allocation but to organize themselves into using the trash. (Also irritating that it's inconvenient to actually trash a thread)

Personally, I'm sticking with my hotmail account/yahoo for an alternate address.

[Statica]

Addendum:
Wanna know how much Google knows about the contents of your email? I tried replying in alternate languages (there was NO mention of movies, just used alternate languages instead of English) to the thread about movies (see above) - Gmail proceeds to point out movie sites in those languages.

[Tin]

boy am i glad i never signed up for that crap.

[aym]

Weird, I have been using Gmail for a couple of weeks now, and I like it, the ads are exactly like the ads that show up to the left of a search page in Google, I barely notice them, and I only get them with some of my emails.

OTOH, the interface is text-only, very fast, and very easy to use, no image/flash ads, replies are grouped like forum replies, there is a quire reply box, email auto completion, and many other features than make Gmail superior to Yahoo or Hotmail IMO.

[Strider]

One person's treasure is another person's trash. :D In my opinion Gmail is the latter of the two.

[fudtone]

Originally posted by aym_7
the ads are exactly like the ads that show up to the left of a search page in Google

I dont have any adds when I use Google Search...

[Statica]

Ads when surfing are part of what you supply to Google, it is information that you volunteer to another's service - <b>By filling in their form field</b>.
An email from my wife or my friend or my business associate is not information that I volunteer to them. I knew it was invasive, from all the reports that we have been getting. But to what extent has been an eye-opener to me. The ads can guage nationality, ethnicity, intent, tastes, dinner plans, entertainment preferences ... from personal mail. Where does the line get drawn? As I said, we've tried the mail system with a number of languages, even those that dont translate well in the English alphabet or phonetics (and of course not there in Google's translation programs). What's next? X-headers? Will it know how to tell me that I could be using a different ISP? Will it know that someone who has sent me email has not had their email filtered by a spam filter?
<b>Finally, my question is, would you be comfortable replying to a person with a gmail account?</b> The ToS only covers non-disclosure of personal information (a subjective point to begin with) to 3rd parties for the user of Gmail's service! Yet, once the mail has entered a gmail server (be it sent from your ISP's mail address or anything else), it has already been subject to scrutiny.
For me, I will be using my gmail account exclusively to tell people who mail me using their gmail address' that I will not be replying to them at that address.

[aym]

Originally posted by fudtone
I dont have any adds when I use Google Search...

They appear to the right of the page, search for "movie" for example, and you'll get one.

EDIT: ads are on the right, sorry, my bad.

[ric449]

To tell the truth I'm happy enough with Hotmail right now. There's no way I'm going to need 1GB of email space, popular as I am :D. One bad thing about Hotmail though is that I can't sign up to certain places, they don't allow hotmail accounts :(.

[fudtone]

Originally posted by aym_7
They appear to the left of the page, search for "movie" for example, and you'll get one.

Maybe I'm just lucky. When I do a Google search the only extras I see are 3 sponsored links on the right hand side... no adds.

[aym]

Originally posted by Statica
Ads when surfing are part of what you supply to Google, it is information that you volunteer to another's service - <b>By filling in their form field</b>.
An email from my wife or my friend or my business associate is not information that I volunteer to them. I knew it was invasive, from all the reports that we have been getting. But to what extent has been an eye-opener to me. The ads can guage nationality, ethnicity, intent, tastes, dinner plans, entertainment preferences ... from personal mail. Where does the line get drawn? As I said, we've tried the mail system with a number of languages, even those that dont translate well in the English alphabet or phonetics (and of course not there in Google's translation programs). What's next? X-headers? Will it know how to tell me that I could be using a different ISP? Will it know that someone who has sent me email has not had their email filtered by a spam filter?
<b>Finally, my question is, would you be comfortable replying to a person with a gmail account?</b> The ToS only covers non-disclosure of personal information (a subjective point to begin with) to 3rd parties for the user of Gmail's service! Yet, once the mail has entered a gmail server (be it sent from your ISP's mail address or anything else), it has already been subject to scrutiny.
For me, I will be using my gmail account exclusively to tell people who mail me using their gmail address' that I will not be replying to them at that address.

It's not like someone actually reads your emails, it's a software program that scans your email for keywords, and displays ads that are related to the email.

E-mails get scanned all the time, even at Yahoo and Hotmail, spam filters, virus scanners...

Even when you send an email using a service other than Gmail, this email will go through many servers, plain text, and anyone can read them, unless of course you encrypt your email.

And why do you trust Microsoft and Yahoo but not Google? All these services aren't 100% free, and make money through ads, the only difference is that Gmail displays text ads related to the email text, while Yahoo and Hotmail display random flashy ads. But you can't be sure that Yahoo, Microsoft, or Gmail won't sell your personal info.

I don't like the idea of having all of my emails hosted by a company, I have my own domain, and can switch email servers in no time if something goes wrong with the current one, but when it comes to free mail services, I don't see how Google violates privacy while Yahoo and Hotmail don't.

[aym]

Originally posted by fudtone
Maybe I'm just lucky. When I do a Google search the only extras I see are 3 sponsored links on the right hand side... no adds.

That's what you get with Gmail, a list of sponsored links, nothing more.

[Statica]

Originally posted by aym_7
It's not like someone actually reads your emails, it's a software program that scans your email for keywords, and displays ads that are related to the email.

E-mails get scanned all the time, even at Yahoo and Hotmail, spam filters, virus scanners...

Even when you send an email using a service other than Gmail, this email will go through many servers, plain text, and anyone can read them, unless of course you encrypt your email.

And why do you trust Microsoft and Yahoo but not Google? All these services aren't 100% free, and make money through ads, the only difference is that Gmail displays text ads related to the email text, while Yahoo and Hotmail display random flashy ads. But you can't be sure that Yahoo, Microsoft, or Gmail won't sell your personal info.

I don't like the idea of having all of my emails hosted by a company, I have my own domain, and can switch email servers in no time if something goes wrong with the current one, but when it comes to free mail services, I don't see how Google violates privacy while Yahoo and Hotmail don't.

Of course everything is logged, of course we have scripts logging our activities - the difference is that I am now faced with a system that is looking to exploit the contents of my personal life to its advantage.
Let me try this analogy - you shop using a credit card, sure the credit card company knows where you shop and lists it on your invoice as well. Gmail's service, to me, is akin to my credit card company calling me on Saturday and telling me that they noticed that I ate @ XYZ Pizzeria last nite - even though they don't know about XYZ Pizzeria personally, but the place had paid them money to call me up - and moreover the waiter had overheard my "conversation" in which I mentioned my allergy to anchovies and perhaps I would be interested in Piscedigestix a new antiallergen by Phyzus Corp, and thought I would be interested in eating at ABC Pizza Palace tonite... that to me is intrusive.

Of course, my outrage is my own personal feelings on this subject; I am sure that gmail will be a fantastic success on the heels of their search engine - this thread is more of a warning for people to check - that in the year 2004 - how much invasion of privacy are you willing to endure?

[TennBikeBerk]

I am using Gmail, and haven't noticed the adds at all. Even though the adds are personalized, I would rather have that, rather than pictures and animations.

The thing about Yahoo mail that bugs me, is that it attaches something to your actual e-mail! Gmail leaves your e-mail as you type it, no adds or links or any of that junk.

So basically bottom line for me, is that I don't care if a robot picks out some basic text on the side of my e-mails. The images and animations of yahoo draw my attention, when I never notice Gmail's adds. My e-mails with Gmail are clean, and ad-free.

I use Gmail, and yahoo, but I prefer Gmail.

[aym]

Originally posted by Statica
Of course everything is logged, of course we have scripts logging our activities - the difference is that I am now faced with a system that is looking to exploit the contents of my personal life to its advantage.
Let me try this analogy - you shop using a credit card, sure the credit card company knows where you shop and lists it on your invoice as well. Gmail's service, to me, is akin to my credit card company calling me on Saturday and telling me that they noticed that I ate @ XYZ Pizzeria last nite - even though they don't know about XYZ Pizzeria personally, but the place had paid them money to call me up - and moreover the waiter had overheard my "conversation" in which I mentioned my allergy to anchovies and perhaps I would be interested in Piscedigestix a new antiallergen by Phyzus Corp, and thought I would be interested in eating at ABC Pizza Palace tonite... that to me is intrusive.

Of course, my outrage is my own personal feelings on this subject; I am sure that gmail will be a fantastic success on the heels of their search engine - this thread is more of a warning for people to check - that in the year 2004 - how much invasion of privacy are you willing to endure?

The difference between Gmail and your credit card company analogy is that Gmail's ad system isn't that intrusive, Gmail doesn't call or show popups or anything, it's just a list of links that I barely notice them.

And Gmail ads aren't that advanced, they don't suggest anything, one of my emails contains the keyword "movie" a couple of times, so a link for a DVD website showed up, it didn't suggest anything, and I got used to ignore the whole list anyway.

For me, it's just a program that scans the email text when I open one, and displays a list of links based on some algorithm, the list is generated on the fly, it's very easy to ignore, no one suggests anything to me or reads my emails.

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by aym_7
The difference between Gmail and your credit card company analogy is that Gmail's ad system isn't that intrusive...

That depends on how you define "intrusive."

No matter how logical it is to argue that no real person reads your e-mail, it is all keyword-triggered, nobody is ever going to see anything, it would be disconcerting to me personally to see the subject of an e-mail I am reading show up in ads next to the e-mail. I don't think I would like that. Nobody said it had to make logical sense. :)

[aym]

Originally posted by doctorgonzo
That depends on how you define "intrusive."

No matter how logical it is to argue that no real person reads your e-mail, it is all keyword-triggered, nobody is ever going to see anything, it would be disconcerting to me personally to see the subject of an e-mail I am reading show up in ads next to the e-mail. I don't think I would like that. Nobody said it had to make logical sense. :)

OK, I see your point, however, the ads system isn't that advanced, ads aren't that related to the content, as you said, it's just a keyword thing, if your email contains the word movie, a DVD website link shows up, it's not like the subject is "wanna watch movie Y?" and the ad says "Don't watch Y, watch Z instead."

[sigmaseven]

I don't know about you guys, but at least to me, i am not typing anything in my e-mails that could be used against etc., i mean thats the only logical explanation someone would not want gmail because it is intrusive. If you have something to hide, well go ahead and use yahoo or hotmail. People can counter that with saying why don't you take out the blinds and stuff from your windows to let people see what you are doing inside your house 24/7. Guess what, they are TOTALLY DIFFERENET things.

[Hi Ho]

I really don't care if a computer scans my email and put up related ads. I really do'nt see what all te fuss is about. It wouldn't affect me anyway because I plan to stay with Hotmail because, though I haven't used Gmail yet, I like the Hotmail interface and spam filters.

[mairving]

Here is what was attached to the bottom of an email sent via Hotmail and one from Yahoo.

From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting
Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!


That is harder for me to stomach than any ads that Google might have. I am sure that things will get worse with Hotmail and Yahoo now that they have upped the disk space. There will more than likely be more agressive advertising.

But again it is just personal preference. I doubt if I will get a Gmail account any way as I already have 100 or so email addresses now and have no need. I will keep my Hotmail one, mostly for testing and signing up at places.

[Byte 2.0]

I have been using gmail for a couple days and maybe i have not paid enough attension to the ads, but I lke it 10 times more then the 1GB spymac account i recently tried. It was slow and horrible, at least gmail is fast and seems well organized. I am going to continue to use it.

[Propain]

Spymac works for me :p and so does Yahoo , Hotmail and a few others :shrugs:

[jong2k4]

Personally, I wouldn't mind the ads because like everyone I've learned to tune them out most of the time.

I am, however, philosophically worried about the social "ouija board" trend that might happen with such targeted advertisement:

When you play with a ouija board with your friends, unless somebody is cheating, nobody knows where the pointer is going next. As the pointer begins to move, everybody thinks their hands are just following the motion, but in fact they are also slightly pushing it in that same direction. Thus, slight subconscious ideas are magnified by people's expectations, trend predictions, and in some cases, intents.

With targeted advertising that has such an enormous knowledge base to draw from, slight subconscious tendencies to use certain words will influence targeted advertising, which might subconsciously affect word usage, which might slightly change ideas.... all being amplified over the course of using Gmail from a young age for many years. Will it really have any impact? Probably not a noticeable one. But that doesn't mean it won't be there.

[jong2k4]

Ack! a Google bot must have found my suspicious post. Now my computer is trying to eat me and large men with Uzis are breaking down my front door.

Let this be a lesson to you all: Bow down to Google's authority! Save yourselves!

cmeospe,.ar09.,...

[jimmyrules712]

yeah...when im given a gamil account to testi ll be happy...

[fudtone]

You all watch commercial TV or have I would assume.

It is nothing different, they send you commercials base on who is paying the most for the "Air time"

Goggle is only increasing the value of there air time by monitoring what channel you are watching.

It is easy to label it an invasion of your privacy. Like a TV you can turn the channel anytime you want. Its all in the EULA

[WhatsThisBoxFor?]

When GMail becomes public I will probably get one, along with my Hotmail, Yahoo etc. accounts. I will probably never even send an email with it....

But if they allow you to use a program i.e. Outhouse Express etc, to check the emails then yes I probably would use it. I have my own webserver, but when people send me an email from it, it arrives, let say someone is trying to spam me, they try randomaddress@mydomain.com then this appears in my inbox (unless it is filtered) because of catch all. I can turn catch all off, but then when I misspell my email address then it will not arrive. At the moment I have only ever had one piece of spam. Back to the topic, if google offered access from a program then I would use it and then the spam problem has gone, or should be, if I use a program then there shouldn't be any ads. I would not use the GMail browser access, like I don't use the hotmail browser access, although I don't use my hotmail account, the hotmail design doesn't appear propely on firefox. Browing to there website just takes too long. Personally I don't care about ads. Google can record enough about me, they know what websites I regulary website (found PCMech the first few times through google), what I search for, what my interests are, what news I read. They know my email address and can link that to searches, so what do I care that they know what I get in emails? Anyway all the people I know about the best email they send to me is a forwarded chain letter, and the other email I recieve is google news alerts.