Riddle driving me up the wall!!

[compusport]

So I have my 10 year old niece staying with us for the summer and she has taken over one of the computers. No problems there, we give her some time each day. This morning though she came across a riddle on one of her sites and asked me to help her solve it. "No problem" I say.......

This one has had me going ever since!!! I even tried cheating and googling for something similar. No luck though. Anyone wanna give it a crack?

[py258]

wow that is very wierd. I can't seem to find a pattern or anything at all either.

[compusport]

I know. I tried giving the known letters an "x" value and tried going from there, but there isn't a total to put on the opposite side of the equation. And I really can't find a pattern to the number values of the letters

[HAL9000]

I'm betting on the simplist answer.... there's no such thing as a 1000 doubloon coin.

[discodanman45]

The two vowels were 2 dubloons, so I am thinking athat A, E, I , O , and U are all two dubloons, besides that no clue

[HAL9000]

Ya.. I noticed that as well

[discodanman45]

Hal, sorry there is a 1,000 dubloon coin. Check out the link

http://www.geocities.com/secretofneopia/dubloon.html

[HAL9000]

ok.. was just a guess (but at the same time... your link is in reference to a game, not real life)... I'm betting the Y is 2 doubloons tho... as stated, the vowels were 2... if Y were only 1 at one time, that would explain why it went up as Y is sometimes considered a vowel.

[discodanman45]

sorry, that was just a bad joke with a link. I have tried everything from morse code, to relating it with months of the year, I am stumped.

[compusport]

well if vowels are two and Y is three, I wonder if those are breaks in the pattern. Either that or they might be based on rarity of letters kinda like scrabble values

[HAL9000]

I would relate the Y to being two as well.... Vowels = 2.. Y is SOMETIMES a vowel... if it were already 2 and went up, it would be three, but then it would be too much for a vowel... it would have had to been 1 and gone up to 2.

[compusport]

well I thought I was onto something, but maybe not. According to a search on a cryptogram site, this is the most common letters:
In order of most common to least common:
1. E
2. T
3. A, O, N, R, I, S
4. H
5. D, L, F, C, M, U
6. G, Y, P, W, B
7. V, K, X, J, Q, Z

But that doesn't totally explain why B C and G have the same value

[Fibre Optix]

Captain thought it was too expensive...so he went home and made his own sign...

In other words I can't find the pattern.

I thought I was on to something when I tried applying it to the phrase...

W E L C O M E ...
1 2 3 3 2 1 2 But it makes no sense.

[HAL9000]

You would THINK the next key would be determining which letter is 8 and why.

[compusport]

The part that is irking me the most is that I looked over her shoulder at this kids' site and i'm wondering how they expect children to come up with the answer???

[HAL9000]

Well, 9 times outta 10, these riddles give you TOO much information to mask the one little glitch right in front of you... that's what I haven't figured out yet.

[HAL9000]

I THINK I've got it... the simplist answer is usually right...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well," the signmaker said, "my pricing is based on which letters you use. Some letters are quite pricey, while others are absolutely free.
For example, the letter A costs two dubloons, B costs three dubloons, C costs three dubloons,
D costs one dubloon, E costs two dubloons, F costs one dubloon, G costs three dubloons, and H's are absolutely free!
But I'm sure you don't need me to list off all of them. Still, the most expensive letter is only eight dubloons.
And don't forget, the price of the letter Y recently went up."
Cap'n Threelegs commissioned the sign to be made, and handed the signmaker a one thousand dubloon coin to pay for it.
How much change should Cap'n Threelegs receive?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK... I'm thinking what I have bolded is the key to the solution... think about it this way... this is a children's riddle and like I mentioned, 9 times outta 10, the answer is usually very simple....

Think of the sign as a letter.. not a character, but a letter you write... Still, the most expensive letter is 8 doubloons... meaning he gets 992 doubloons change.

[doctorgonzo]

I don't think that's the simplest answer, though. Usually, when these kinds of riddles use double meanings like that, it goes out of its way to not give away which meaning of the word is being used. But here, it is clear that the riddle uses the word "letter" to mean a glyph: "the letter A costs two dubloons." If the riddle had said "the character A costs two dubloons," then maybe the word 'letter' would mean the whole sign.

I still think there is a trick, though. The phrase "Cap'n Threelegs commissioned the sign to be made" sounds most contorted, so I wonder if the trick is there.

[WhatsThisBoxFor?]

Heres my guess:
Maybe he got 1000 dubloons change because the sign maker couldn't change a 1000 dubloon coin.

Thats probably completly wrong, but still, what is the website (it might have the answer on).

[HAL9000]

Originally posted by doctorgonzo
I don't think that's the simplest answer, though. Usually, when these kinds of riddles use double meanings like that, it goes out of its way to not give away which meaning of the word is being used. But here, it is clear that the riddle uses the word "letter" to mean a glyph: "the letter A costs two dubloons." If the riddle had said "the character A costs two dubloons," then maybe the word 'letter' would mean the whole sign.

I still think there is a trick, though. The phrase "Cap'n Threelegs commissioned the sign to be made" sounds most contorted, so I wonder if the trick is there.

That's just my point tho... it's a play on words.. "letter" has two meanings... this is a children's riddle... to look beyond that is too complicated for a child... they're not gonna say character A as it just sounds dumb and leaves out the play on words.

Think about it... some letters are expensive (3) while others are absolutely free (anything over 8 doubloons would be free and the fact that H is free is irrelevant)... still the most expensive letter (not a character) is only 8 doubloons.

[compusport]

ok, now that i've left for a while and came back to it, I came up with the same logic that Hal did... the entire sign is only 8 dubloons.... since we aren't given all the math and there's no recognizable pattern, then the wordplay must be the answer.


P.S. my neice thinks i'm an idiot for coming up with that answer:p

[HAL9000]

So does she have the right answer or are we screwed?

[compusport]

that's the part that sucks.... we don't get to find out until Tuesday or so.... I'll definately post the answer or at the very least PM it to you if you want?

[HAL9000]

Post it PM it or whatever... I wanna know the answer... I'm POSTITIVE I'm right.... and first to post it too :p

[Quintz]

Yes please post it!

[Panama Red]

I haven't found the answer, but I may have found the source of the question. Looks like it's some kind of kids' site called "Neopets". The Swashbuckling Academy uses dubloons to train pets (?). The whole thing may be just pure fantasy.

http://www.ceruleantown.com/sots/bdome.shtml

[sleepypost]

Well, this riddle is terrifying to say the least. I will be VERY disappointed if the answer HAL gave is actually supposed to be the correct answer. That is a terrbile play on words because the definition of a "sign" and a "letter" is very very very very very very very very very different. If this is a childrens' riddle, and that is the 'correct' answer, then that teaches the child to blur the definitions of words, and that is dangerous because it leads to sloppy rhetoric.


But in this case, i guess the sign he wants made is in reality a sort of letter, since it is directed at a limited audience, and it is in fact a greeting. So I'll agree with HAL on this one, even though he failed to define the actual wording of the sign as that of the structure of a typical 'letter'. That is crucial in the jusification of why it costs 8 dubloons since it is a 'letter' and not just a sign. If the wording for the sign was, "CITY OF LAFAYETTE" that would NOT be a definitional 'letter', but rather is just a sign. So it is important to point out the fact that this particular "sign" is really a "letter to someone". Since there are many signs that are actually just signs and nothing more. Like "WENDY'S" or "NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT". "WELCOME YURBLES....." is a letter. Important to point this out. It cements and justifies HAL's conclusion.

[Vigo]

Ugh, stop calling it a riddle. Its a math problem. And since I'm here let me say this: I was tricked. I never would have clicked this link if I thought the riddle involved math! :)

[HAL9000]

I'm positive the ONLY math involved in this is 1000-8=992 ... this come from a KID'S website.. how difficult do you expect the math to be?

[compusport]

"If this is a childrens' riddle, and that is the 'correct' answer, then that teaches the child to blur the definitions of words, and that is dangerous because it leads to sloppy rhetoric."

(sorry, don't know how to do a proper quote)

Actually i'd say that if Hal's answer is the correct one, it teaches lateral thinking rather then just plain ABC linear logic. kinda like the old "how many animals on Moses' ark" riddle.... Noah had the ark, but we follow the story of the math rather than looking for the facts. another one that comes to mind is "where did they bury the survivors?".

[sleepypost]

yes, but you see, in those exeamples, which we are all familiar with, the actual answer, not the "common yet wrong" answer, makes complete and total sense. In this case, you have a very muddled difference between "sign" and "letter".... unless you back up your answer with the justification I gave in my response up yonder. THAT is why I agree with HAL, but don't like the riddle at the same time. It's because the answer requires a precise method of justification that applies to this particular riddle, under particular circumstances. Things that young normal children don't pick up on, and can't pick up on and through all of the confuusion, they learn the wrong thing.

There's a BIG difference in telling a child, "Look you see, a SURVIVOR cannot be dead!" and he instantly learns... and saiying, "You see, in this case it was a LETTER, because it was addressed towards someone. A sign can mean different things. In this case, the sign was a letter and no, not the letters you're familiar with and not the letters that were mentioned in the riddle itself. This sign is a letter, and therefore it costs only 8 dubloons because........and on and on and on!"

[HAL9000]

Personally, I think it teaches to think outside the box... the terminology of "sign" is meant to throw you off... keep you IN the box... the play on "letter" keeps you thinking of only one definition... time to think outside the box and realize there is more than one.

[jong2k4]

I almost had a pattern... each letter costs the number of lines in the previous letter. It held for the prices of B,C,D,E but fell apart at F.

[RHLinuxGUY]

Neopets is not a kids website.... my sister (15) and her friends go on that web site. I think its completely stupid. But its like a pokemonster. They got to train them, battle them, and get stuff for the pet things by doing games. I dont realy think its kids web site.

[Panama Red]

I guess "kids" is a relative term, depends on your own age. 15 is still a kid to me. Same with 20, my daughter's age. She's still a kid! Even my 24 year old son can be a kid on occassion. The there's my "kid" brother, or little brother as I call him. He turned 50 last week! See, it's all relative.:D

[py258]

hey guys, I have found the exact site of where this riddle is coming from. It is indeed coming from Neopets, the beloved child online pet/game/etc. site. It is a game, Called "Lenny Conundrum." It's info says: "Every Tuesday we have a new puzzle for you to solve. Win a trophy, neopoints and a rare item if you are one of the first to submit the correct answer." So as you can see, its a contest. The URL is http://www.neopets.com/games/conundrum.phtml, but it seems you have a create an account to actually view the riddle and play it. Luckily I made an account when I was still in middle school, and I still remembered it :). This is a weekly contest and it ends on tuesday. I don't know if knowing the exact site will help you guys or not, but there it is if u guys want to know :)


edited link to work properly

[Redfallon]

I'm gonna disagree with the whole sign costing a mere 8 dubloons, i don't have any more plausible answer yet, but it seems the word play is TOO far fetched! also, who would pay for a sign that costs 8 dubloons with a 1000 dubloon coin! Mcdonalds won't even take anything over a $50 bill in my neighborhood! Can't wait 'till Tuesday (although I'm sure in the end Hal will be right ;) ) Also, if a sign with as many letters as "welcome Yurbles.....academy" only cost 8 dubloons, why not charge 8 for all signs, as it would only take a sign saying ABC to get there.....

[Byte 2.0]

I to want to know the answer. I would feel cheated if it is 992.

[Spartan]

I want to know the answer too. I Googled the hell out of it but got no where. I called my sister (a teacher) and she had no idea. Pleeeeeease post the answer. it is killing me.

-Spartan

[HAL9000]

The site won't have the answer till Tuesday... I'll be shocked if I'm wrong.

[HAL9000]

bump.. want the answer tomorrow

[compusport]

I haven't forgotten:p Matter of fact I checked today just in case. The only problem I've seen is after perusing past ones, they only post an answer and no solution to solve it. mKinda annoying

[HAL9000]

Well.. if it comes out as an answer of 992... I think it becomes pretty obvious.

[compusport]

yup... but if it says something differant, I'm going to be annoyed that it doesn't explain the answer.

[HAL9000]

Bump... waiting :p

[compusport]

just checked Hal, it appears they're on Pacific time.... you could always kill the time by solving my post on the win2k board?:D :p

[Redfallon]

ack, PST......more waiting in agony!

[Rapier]

All of it!

That's why it's a kids puzzle. I am old and have seen many variations, always same answer.

[HAL9000]

Dang.. I created an account at that place just to wait for the answer and still nuttin.

[TennBikeBerk]

It's 7:20 on the west coast. Shouldn't it be up by now? Anybody know exactly what time it's supposed to be up?

[HAL9000]

still not there

[Trent Steel]

Just thought of this, how to make people go crazy. Take a logic problem, remove logic, then serve to all. There had better be a solution for this, or I will, um get frustrated.

[compusport]

well we're up to wednesday morning and still no sign of the answer. And to boot, I have an incredibly annoyed neice here because I kicked her out of bed at 7 am:p

[jamesrpm]

Inquiring minds want to know....................

[HAL9000]

I keep looking... 7PM Sask time and no answer.

[HAL9000]

Well dang... seems I was wrong... was sure that was it... of course the site gives no explanation to the answer.. but the answer is 920 dubloons change.

[erucader]

It's too bad you guys aren't familiar with this site...
For one thing I have tried solving these riddles before and they are very mathematical, not so much as a trick.
Also it will say the answer is posted tuesday or whatever but sometimes not be up for a week.

And finally, Neopets is hardly a kids site. I know guys my age (18) that play it and I have met older people on there as well. :p

[Spartan]

... of course the site gives no explanation to the answer..

That just sucks.

-Spartan

[compusport]

I should probably just let this one die, but it bugs me that I don't know the method for solving that one. I actually like doing logic and math puzzles, but I also like being able to learn from a wrong answer, so I posted it into a couple of puzzle sites' forums in hope of an explanation. *sigh* I need to get a life

[rlsuth]

I'm wondering about the significance of the phrase "And don't forget, the price of the letter Y recently went up". Just why would the price of Y have recently gone up? This could be the key to the puzzle.

[ScurrilousPrune]

OK, I might have a pattern, but I don't know if it's right. (math is my worst subject). I'll work on it tomorrow after work. I have all the 2s in a proper pattern. I need to do the 1s and 3s. I know the answer too, but I don't know how to get it just yet. The Neopets site also doesn't tell you how to get the answer. (My sister has an account).

[ScurrilousPrune]

OK I got this, I had to break it up to line it up, but I don't know if the pattern is correct:

Welcome Yurbles to the Swashbuckling Academy
Pattern:
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n
2 3 3 1 2 1 3 f 2 1 2 1 2 3

o p q r s t u v w x y z
3 1 2 1 3 8 2 1 3 1 2 1



Message:

w e l c o m e y u r b l e s
3 2 1 3 3 2 2 2 2 1 3 1 2 3


t o t h e
8 3 8 f 2

s w a s h b u c k l i n g
3 3 2 3 f 3 2 3 2 1 2 3 3


a c a d e m y
2 3 2 1 2 2 2

[rlsuth]

Unfortunately, it's not right. It adds up to more than 80, which is the correct amount.

[Allanv]

it's a stupid Neopet riddle, where each letter has a value equal to the number of neopet species that start with that letter..

[Punked Out Comp]

Here's this weeks riddle.

Three people check into a hotel. They pay £30 to the manager and go to their room. The manager suddenly remembers that the room rate is £25 and gives £5 to the bellboy to return to the people. On the way to the room the bellboy reasons that £5 would be difficult to share among three people so he pockets £2 and gives £1 to each person. Now each person paid £10 and got back £1. So they paid £9 each, totalling £27. The bellboy has £2, totalling £29. Where is the missing £1?

I'm pretty sure I know the answer, it's not as hard as the other one.
Anyone else want to give it a shot?

EDIT: That's not the riddle, thats the brain teaser.

[HAL9000]

That one is simply using an incorrect order of operations for math.... you do multiplication and division first, addition and subtraction last... in this riddle, you have taken the $5 away first, then divided.

[Punked Out Comp]

Yea, It's pretty stupid. I bet you some ppl would have tried it over and over again though and gone crazy. A good brain teaser shouldn't give you false information, just confusing.