Legal Advice on this traffic ticket?

[peter8d9]

I am taking this to court in less than a week and heres what I've got. The officer is citing me on improper change of lane or course and additionally writing in failed to signal when changing lanes.

Here is the statute I "broke"
316.085 Limitations on overtaking, passing, changing lanes and changing course.--

(1) No vehicle shall be driven to the left side of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction unless authorized by the provisions of this chapter and unless such left side is clearly visible and is free of oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit such overtaking and passing to be completely made without interfering with the operation of any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction of any vehicle overtaken. In every event the overtaking vehicle must return to an authorized lane of travel as soon as practicable and, in the event the passing movement involves the use of a lane authorized for vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, before coming within 200 feet of any approaching vehicle.

(2) No vehicle shall be driven from a direct course in any lane on any highway until the driver has determined that the vehicle is not being approached or passed by any other vehicle in the lane or on the side to which the driver desires to move and that the move can be completely made with safety and without interfering with the safe operation of any vehicle approaching from the same direction.

(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318.


Here is what happened. It was 11 pm on a saturday night. I just dropped a friend of at his place and I was driving back to my apartment. I was driving down the main road and pulled over into the turning lane(left lane) of the intersection. There is a traffic light there. I made a left hand turn after I saw I had plenty of time infront of me and another car (all I could see was some headlights) so I turned. The road I turned onto was a small short road of only about 100 feet before another light. I was no more than 20 feet from the light and I saw lights in my mirror so I pulled over. The officer said that he had been following behind me for a while and pulled me over when I didnt use my turn signal and pulled out infront of a van.


I find it interesting he was 'following' me for a while. But I dont think I can really make a defense for this.

Also, I drive a manual, this being my first one and I only had it for a month I can make the contest that I was downshifting and turning at the same time so I couldnt signal. But signaling was not even in the statute.

How did he see past my car and see how close I was while watching my turn signal. Also, he couldnt see if the car braked either.

Does anyone have any advice going into court on this one? Thanks a lot

[eX!le2127]

yeah just play kiss-ass with the judge! and tell them your side of the story.
most likley they will either drop the charge... or minimize the penaltie for the ticket. like drop half the charges or just make you pay a lil money, but not the whole thing.

if your lucky =) GOOD LUCK

i got a simular ticket: i was riding in my car and my seatbelt was stuck in the door. so i opend my door and pulled in the belt. a cop saw me do this and pulled me over. he said i didnt have a seatbelt on and that my door was opend and my arm was outside the car. i told him my side of the story and he gave me a ticket for 1)no seat belt. and 2)unlawful riding. i went to court and pleaded innocent and told the judge what i told the cop and all i had to pay was $25 for processing the ticket or some BS like that.

[mc2phat]

He'll probably have a video recording of everything, so good luck.

[sleepypost]

Well I am glad people are getting in trouble for not using their turn signal. Is it too hard to use the turn signal? In your case, you should have put the signal on BEFORE you tried to pick up speed.

[eX!le2127]

yeah the cop prolly does have a recording, but it was 11pm and some of those cameras suck. also the cop was just filling his quota for writing tickets.

there are ppl running red lights, and speeding in school zones!
why write a ticket to someone for not using his blinker? if the cop wasnt suck a hard ass he could have written him a warning. i just hate it when cops do stupid crap like that!
go arest that crazy freak who kills ppl! leave the poor blinker guy alone

[peter8d9]

Originally posted by sleepypost
Well I am glad people are getting in trouble for not using their turn signal. Is it too hard to use the turn signal? In your case, you should have put the signal on BEFORE you tried to pick up speed.

Does anyone have any advice going into court on this one? Thanks a lot


I didnt ask for your flaming comments. All I wanted was some advice or a stradegy when presenting my case. Why even bother posting letting me know to use my turn signal? My point was there was nothing in that statute that stated a turn signal was needed. BTW, I /do/ use my turn signal but that happened to be one of the few times I did not. I'm sure you dont always use yours or do something else that piss people off.

Thanks exile, thats what I thought. He even said he followed me for a while. I drive a 03 Tiburon, its a sports coupe if anyone doesnt know and its bright red. That probably was the reason he was so interested in me. He couldnt get me for speeding because I wasnt so he waits for me to 'cut' someone off.

[diver203_98]

I'll tell you something.. Just think about something for a minute... You are going down the road at the speed limit, say 55mph and you are following maybe a little too close, when all of the sudden the guy in front of you "hammers" the brakes forcing you to "haul" on your brakes. You almost plow into the guy, so you start curcing and swearing up a blue streak, when you see the guy almost come to a complete stop to make a turn... Now how do you feel about the guy that doesn't use his turn signal? Not to be smart, but that is what you want the cops to look past. eXile2127 just somethig to think about.

Actually all you can do is tell your side of the story, AND BE HONEST. But also if the arresting officer doesn't show up, they will usually dismiss the case too. Good luck.

[SonicVanguard]

Advice=call the courts and tell them you are not challenging the ticket and pay the fine.

Reason=The officer will have tape of your infraction(s) and those cameras are as good as they get - especially for night time use. You'll need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt no law was broken or the judge will side with the officer. Being fairly new to driving a stick won't cut it. And a officer can follow you as long as he'd like waiting for you to do something wrong. There is no law I'm aware of that stops police from doing that.

Dave.

[Markoman01027]

There is no excuse not to use a turn signal, regardless if you have an automatic, standard, or learning how to drive a standard.

Pay the fine, you learned your lesson.

[tigstah]

think of the outcome if you lose.
dont even go to court, just pay the fine.
if you go to court, more than likely you will have to pay court costs if you lose.
take it as a lesson learned....pay the fine

[eX!le2127]

are you ppl cops? sounds like it!
yes you are all right. but all i was saying was the cop was profiling the guy just looking for the littlest thing to write a ticket for. and i think thats BS the cop should have been writing a ticket to someone else who was actually knowingly breaking the law. instead of pestering a good citizen. if i wasnt afraid of getting kicked off this forum i would be swearing up a storm about how much i dislike cops like that (i dont hate all cops... just cops that do their job crapy)

[bailey]

the officer is in the right if he seen you change lanes with out the proper turn signal,
there is no way to argue this
just pay the fine and use your turn signals in the future

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by eX!le2127
are you ppl cops? sounds like it!
yes you are all right. but all i was saying was the cop was profiling the guy just looking for the littlest thing to write a ticket for. and i think thats BS the cop should have been writing a ticket to someone else who was actually knowingly breaking the law. instead of pestering a good citizen.

So if you break the law, it doesn't matter if you think you are a "good citizen," or if you think the cop had it out for you, or if it was just a "little thing"?

The law was broken, and the cop was there. Call it fate, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, whatever, but the fact remains that the law was broken. Accept it and be more careful next time.

People should not be looking for ways to game the system when they break the rules. It's called responsibility.

[Floppyman]

Originally posted by doctorgonzo
So if you break the law, it doesn't matter if you think you are a "good citizen," or if you think the cop had it out for you, or if it was just a "little thing"?

The law was broken, and the cop was there. Call it fate, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, whatever, but the fact remains that the law was broken. Accept it and be more careful next time.

People should not be looking for ways to game the system when they break the rules. It's called responsibility.

Exactly. I agree 100 percent.

[sleepypost]

Well dude, I am on your side actually as a young driver of a new sports car. The cop was definitely profiling you because after all, a Tiburon '03 means you probably do speed like a maniac when you can get away with it. (nothing wrong there). But I have this thing with people who don't use their turn signals. If you don't use your turn signal, you are creating a lot of room for error and also posing a serious risk to other drivers out there.

When you don't use your turn signal, people speeding like 100 + mph (and there are a lot of those where i'm from) can easily swipe you. Even though they are wrong too, they will surely suffer from YOUR mistake (in conjunction with theirs). Also, like what Diver said up there, when turning, if you want to make turns at FULL SPEED, then be my guest. But, If I am behind you and you don't use your turney and actually slow down to make your turn and cause me to have to brake late, I will roll down my window and cuss you out so bad you will cry. And I will run my horn for about 3 minutes until you are so sick of it that you get mad. It is called road rage, and YOU are the one who caused it for ME.

So, I am on your side for the whole profiling thing, but I am against your view of dismissing the turn signal as an important law.

[peter8d9]

Question, did any of you all read the statute completely?

From what I can see making a turn is not in there at all. All those have to do with are changing lanes on highways and passing people. What bothers me is the fact everyone automatically assumes I'm in the wrong without looking at all the facts. I didnt use my turn signal but it doesnt appear to be anything in the statute that requires that. The ticket wasnt even for that specifically. It was for improper change of lane and that statute was cited. Cops give out traffic tickets not to make our streets safer, most tickets are given out because they generate money. All of you say to pay it without contesting it but its not your money until you get a ticket.

[bailey]

you can read into it all you want to try to justify your actions.
but every state I know of, it is required to use the turn signals any time you change lanes for what ever reason.
that is why they were installed on every thing that uses the roads, and before there were even any turn signals , you were required to use the old fasion hand turn signals.

you got no out

the only thing you will gain by argueing this point is a higher fine and the requirement to take drivers trainning class for the bad attude.
you could also waste a lot of money for a laywer and still pay for the fine too.

all I will advise you to do is to do what you feel is going to be best for you, and not complaine about the results.

[Panama Red]

OK, my turn to chime it. I've read the posted statute; I've read everyone's opinion and I'm a former smart aleck driver who always blamed the cops or the other guy for my mistakes. Before I went in the Army in 1967, I had 21 points on my license. Ran them up so fast the record keepers didn't catch up to me until after I had been in the service for 12 weeks. After I got out, I racked up 11 more and had to attend remedial drivers training. I never had any accidents, but I think I had every ticket known to exist. Tried to fight a couple of them but all it got me was additional court costs, lost wages from work, and points on my record. Those days were over 30 years ago. I haven't had a moving violation in over 20 years and I drive over 50K miles/ year as a sales rep. One of these days, hopefully before you hurt yourself or someone else, you'll look in the mirror and see the person reposnsible for your citation. As taxpayers, we pay for police protection, not just from robbers, thieves, and rapists but from all forms of law breakers. I'd bet you dollars to donuts that the officer that gave you the ticket did so for the only visible violation he could make stick. But odds are your quick lane change, gear grabbing downshift and rapid left turn in front of on coming traffic told the officer he needed to slow you down and make you think before you hurt yourself or someone else. He was doing the job he is paid to do. I only hope he got your attention. You don't mention how many previous moving violations you've received or how long you've been driving. Those things offer the rest of us some further insite into your driving "style".

My 24 year old son just went before the court because he had too many tickets. They suspended his license for 2 months. Doesn't even have drive-to-work priviledges. Hope he learns his lesson too.

Best advice I can give you, young man, is based on been-there-done-that. Swallow your pride, quit blaming someone else and look straight in the eyes of the face in the mirror. Tell the guy looking at you to begin accepting responsibility for his actions. You'll then have taken the first step towards becoming a REAL man.

[glc]

The person with the improper attitude here in my opinion is not peter8d9, but ex!le2127. Peter has simply asked for advice in possibly contesting the citation and doesn't need to be ragged out for making a driving mistake, he just happened to be caught, and it happens. His number was drawn that night. However, the tirade against legitimate law enforcement exhibited by Exile is not appropriate in these forums.

My advice if you want to fight it? Discuss it with a lawyer.

[james8547]

If you challenge the ticket, talk with the prosecutor to make a deal. I got 4 tickets so far. I contested 3 and I got reduced points on all of them. I always speak with the prosecutor first and he always reduces the charge. However, the judge always modify the fines so I pay even more.

[Fuze]

how can you even consider taking that to court? Honestly. Seems like such a waste of the judge's time and the police officer's. They have more important things to do than to try to defend their actions against someone can't accept responsibility. :-/

[ric449]

Exactly how much is the fine?

[ja83]

hey peter, what kind of car do you drive? A lot of cops are prejudice towards certain cars. Like a Honda, Acura, Mustang, Camaro, etc...

[formerjudge]

I see asking question about fighting a ticket is something like asking it on any other big message boards people start to tell you just pay it.

peter8d9: He got you for 2 offences so the chances are he will show up in court. Not knowing how many tickets you got before it’s hard to suggest if you should take your chances or just pay the ticket as general rule is judges will usually believe cops over the defender. Check to see if in your state you can do it thru mail as usually cops don't get paid for that like they do for going to court and it consider to be part of there regular work which means cops will not get paid for defending his action thru mail. If you lose you usually can appeal and then go to court and do it again in front of the judge so basically you got 2 chances of winning the ticket instead of one. Also if judge rules against you, request a driving school so that you can keep the points off your driving history. Good luck and as glc said talk to a lawyer they will know the facts of the law much better then anyone on this board will

[peter8d9]

The fine is for $78 dollars. I drive a 2003 Red Hyundai Tiburon. It is a sports coupe and looks like a fast car. At the time I had a temporary tag on it.

I just got a copy of the ticket because I could not read mine at all. I know this will almost not change anything at all he wrote that my address was in Massachusettes instead of Maryland.

Also, It was second 2 that I broke, nothing else. He wrote in that I failed to use my turn signal. The road I was on was a 4 lane road(2 lanes in each direction). I'm not sure that section 2 actually applys to me. And its pretty subjective whether or not I made an unsafe lane change. If he was behind me then unless he saw the person swerve then its pretty hard to say I was wrong. From our direction we cant see if the person braked at all.

Finally, I have a Maryland drivers license. No points are assesed from out of state tickets. I have florida insurance but that shouldn't matter. I only received one other ticket in florida and that was a over a year and a half ago and I went to traffic school for it. I have no points on my license and it is clean. Florida doesnt keep records on out of state infractions. I could talk to a lawyer but I think I'm just going to go in and be nice to the judge. Who knows the cop may not even show.


Wow, thanks GLC. Someone actually sees the point of my thread. I don't need hassling saying I was in the wrong and be hanged for it. I just dont think I was guilty of what I'm charged. If it was for not using my turn signal then fine but it wasn't.

[kstatefan40]

If you believe that what you did was not against the law, protest it, but dont be stuck up about it. I would simply ask the judge for a consideration on the law being unclear. See if he/she will clarify, and then do your protesting, but don't sound like a rich little jerk trying to get out of a ticket. Try to be honest and respectable, see where it gets you.

[Redfallon]

I don't know about in other states, but in OH driving school doesn't keep the points off your license. It simply extends the normal 12 points you're allowed to 14. As far as insurance goes, it'll be on your MVR as a conviction, and you'll get charged. At least that's the case in OH, deal with it everyday ;)

[peter8d9]

Where can I find florida's legal definition of a highway?

[glc]

Let's see - red sports car, temporary tag - you bet you are under a microscope, whether it's right or wrong. If you will not be assessed any points and it won't affect your insurance (check with your agent), just pay the "tax" and be done with it. I don't know about you, but my time is worth a lot more than the $78 to go fight the thing and risk having to pay court costs in addition to the fine.

A little story - years ago I was stopped in Mississippi for speeding - allegedly 58 in a 50. I tried to give the cop my bond card - he told me that in order to accept it we would have to go to the county seat, but if I would follow him to the local justice of the peace we could take care of this. This was walking right into a classic "good old boy" situation - the cop and the JP were on a first name basis, the JP offered me a glass of iced tea, the whole schtick. JP asked me why I wanted to fight it, I told him I didn't want points and have my insurance go up - he flat out told me that the ticket was going nowhere, all they wanted was my money. 20 bucks cash and I was on my way. Yes, I was profiled - I was driving a 240Z with Illinois tags and I was off the beaten path. The iced tea was really good too.

[Alienware_Dude]

Things have changed since the mid-1800s. ;) :D

[glc]

Yeah - Mississippi was still in the 1800's in 1975.

[ja83]

wow glc in a 240 Z, nice lol! What color was it?

[glc]

Baby p00p mustard with black racing stripes and interior. Best car I've ever owned, and I've had at least 30 cars in my life. Bought it with 40,000 miles on it and drove it up to 144,000 miles with almost zero mechanical issues, and I abused the heck out of it. It turned into a rustbucket, it got smashed into sitting out in the street in front of my house, and the head gasket finally blew. Got 400 bucks for it on a tradein, I drove it in and the dealer called me 2 days later and said they couldn't get it started.

[ceh4702]

I would not bring up the driving in another state with the improper license unless you are begging for another ticket or a revoked license. Most states have laws requiring you to get their license and registration if you live there so many days, with exceptions for military or maybe students.

You would be surprised how many times a judge will change a ticket. My wife had a ticket for failure to yield with an accident and she goes and tells the judge the stop sign was partially obstructed and he changed her ticket or threw it out or something.

[nooblark]

i dislike cops who do thier job bad too.... but im 2 sided on this one..

yes turn signals need to be on to warn other drivers.. but if no1 else was around, and he was in a TURN ONLY lane.. then wtf?

as my driver teaching tells me.. don't beleive a turn signal anyway, could of been left on since last turn..

how much is it? and how many pts u getting?

[mbossman2]

Originally posted by nooblark
but if no1 else was around, and he was in a TURN ONLY lane.. then wtf?

that is truly southern thinking, you'd fit in fine down here.

peter, the cop had you pegged for a ticket long before you made the turn. He/she was following you waiting for you to make the slightest infraction. The only hope you have is to show up at court, see if the cop is there (you gotta remember what he/she looks like) and if they are a no show as your case is called, you can choose the fight it and potentially win based on the fact the cop is a no show. this is a risky technique as if you fight it and lose the judge has lattitude on the fines and a simple $50 fine can rapidly become a $250 fine if he is ticked at you for wasting his time.

I, living in the south and travelling into the deeper south, have been on the recieving end of a few of these revenue generators and it is not worth the time or effort to fight it. smile, say "yes sir" and pay the fine.

[nocturnx]

Fight it! Down with the man!

J/K pay it and be done with it. You where in the wrong for not using a turn signal. Kind of a dumb thing to get a ticket for since you where in the turning lane but legally the cop is right.

wheres lawyer ron on this one lol.