installing win95

[enhanced08]

how do you install win95 from cd? i was told its not bootable from disk so how do you install it?

[GaryRouth]

You can visit http://www.bootdisk.com for a bootable floppy disk. Use the Win95 version that matches your CD. Hopefully the generic drivers will work with the CD in your system = which they usually will, if it's a standard IDE CD-rom.

If this is an older system with the CD drive connected through a Sony/Mitsumi/NEC connector on the sound card, you may have to find and add those drivers to the bootdisk to be able to use the Cd-drive in DOS (which is what you start Win9x setup in)

Once you've booted to the A: prompt, switch to the drive letter for the cd-drive (on bootdisk.com disks, they often assign drive "R" to the cd-drive), and start setup from the Win95 directory. Might look like this

R: cd\Win95
R: Setup

. . . and follow the prompts.
_____________
This is all assuming you have the hard drive prepared first. The early version of Win95 need to use the FAT16 file system, and have a 2gb limitation on partition sizes. The later "OSR2" versions added the ability to use the FAT32 file system and larger partitions.

The bootdisk.com site also has some helpful tutorials (as we also do here in the "Articles" and "BuildYourOwn" sections of PC Mechanic)
. . . Gary

[chuss01]

I have a similar problem. My PC is older from the 97-98 timeframe. 95 has been removed and am starting from scratch to try and load 98SE. I have a boot disk that I made from bootdisk.com and a CD for 98SE. The PC doesn't recognize the CD drive. I tried changing the sequence in the BIOS setup to every combination but still doesn't work. I've got the original CD Driver floppy but when I start the PC with it in the drive, I get a message that says "can't find MSCDEX.EXE in the DOS path" What do I do next.
Thanks,

[speeddude2000]

Next time try starting your own thread, as "hijacking" someone else thread is considered rude. Anyways, cant you just install Windows 98SE from the bootable disk?

[chuss01]

Sorry for the intrusion, it's my first visit.
I have started my own thread. Please respond to that one. The PC doesn't recognize the CD-rom drive.

Thanks,

[enhanced08]

ok i got a bootdisk and got it to start up. i got to the R drive and typed setup. it started to install. a screen says press enter to check the system or esc to exit setup. hit enter. it then says 7340032 bytes need on the C drive. thats like 700 mb, right? its a 2.1 GB HDD.

this is as far as it will go. right after this text is the ''R:\>" thing again and i don't know what to type.

[GaryRouth]

It sounds like there's already something on the hard drive taking up space?

Was there an operating system previously on this hard drive? Did you wish to keep it? Or replace it? A 2.1gb drive is a bit small to share two operating systems, so I'll guess that you'll want to install Win95 alone, replacing whatever was before it.

Try preparing the hard drive again. Boot with the bootdisk.com floppy, and use the fdisk utility. [To start fdisk, simply type "fdisk" (without the quotes) at the A: prompt]. Use option 4 to view current partitions. If you do not need any data from the previous system, delete the DOS partitions [if you see non-DOS partitions, leave them alone, unless you are sure you don't need them = post that info here if you see a non-DOS, and we'll see if your situation calls for keeping or erasing the non-DOS]. Then create a Primary DOS Partition and mark it active. Then start Win95 Setup as before, and let it format the disk for you.

See if that does it. [It's been awhile since I installed Win95 - so if the Win95 Setup doesn't offer to format the drive, you can use the format command from your bootdisk.com diskette]
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...if there was either a Linux or an WinNT/2k/XP NTFS partition on the hard drive, the easiest way to remove that would probably be with the disk utilities that are a free download at the hard drive manufacturer's website - you'd "zero-write" the hard drive to completely erase everything. Then back to the bootdisk.com diskette & use fdisk to create a DOS partition]

[enhanced08]

ok well when i got the drive it was clean. nothing on it. i tried to install win98 but it wouldn't work right with the system so i think i put win2k on it but i'm not 100% sure if that particular drive had it or not. i deleted all partions on the drive, dos and non-dos. created a new partion and marked it active and tried again.... same thing happened

[GaryRouth]

Try zero-writing the drive . . . and then try fdisk and setup again. Win9x won't even see the NTFS partition.
. . . Gary

[enhanced08]

ok, i'll give it a try. the drive is a western digital caviar.

[enhanced08]

i'm at the downoad section of the website and have no idea what to use. i can't find anything about zero-writing.

[GaryRouth]

You'll want to download "DataLifeGuard" - the bootable floppy diskette version. You'll be able to find it with either the Search function, or head to their downloads pages.
. . . Gary

Here's a link to the downloads page. You can try either the DataLifeGuard for DOS, or the DLG diagnostics... I believe the diagnostics and zero-write utility are included in the DataLifeGuard package. (They certainly were in the earlier versions) http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp#dlgtools

In fact, it might be a good idea to test the drive with the diagnostics anyway, in case it's a damaged area on the disk that might be causing you trouble

[enhanced08]

ok, i think i got the right one downloading, its the first actual download on the downloads page, right? the .exe version. i'm on dialup so it will take a few min to download and try it out.

[GaryRouth]

The .exe download will offer to create a bootable diskette for you - so you might want to hunt down a clean diskette to use while the utility downloads. Shouldn't take too long, it's about 1.7mb.
. . . Gary

[enhanced08]

ok its downloaded and on floppy. i put it in the pc and booted it up. looked in the menus and didn't find and zero-write, but i did see setup new hard drive and i'm trying that. it has no option for win95 but one for win98.

[GaryRouth]

If it turns out you still need to get rid of an NTFS partition, the DLG Diagnostics version 5.04 on that same webpage will do the trick. It can do the zero-write.

I'd still recommend running some diagnostics on the drive, too, if for no other reason than that a 2.1gb hard drive is aging, and it might save you time if it turns out the drive is failing.

[enhanced08]

ok i'll get that. if by chance i don't need to remove this NTFS partion, what would the next step be?

i opened the diagnostics menu and i had no idea what the options were, the only 3 i could select were to make different boot diskd of somekind. not much diagnostics if you ask me.

[enhanced08]

i'll download it now, but work with it tomorrow, its almost 3:30am here and i'm going to bed. thanks for all the help! i hope it works!!!!

[GaryRouth]

Good luck in the morning!

The tests that the older versions of DataLifeGuard had (that I use a lot) offer such things as a Quick Test, Extended Test (rather like the "thorough" ScanDisk - it inspects every aspect, every cylinder of the drive and "recertifies" it as OK) -- some of the other tests offer to check the compatibility of the motherboard's Bios with various levels of Ultra-ATA/Ultra-DMA, and usually the last one on the menu is a zero-write utility.

If you don't need to get rid of any NTFS partitions, and the "extended tests" give the drive an OK . . . you should be ready to try fdisk and Setup again.

I'm about to try for some shut-eye myself . . . since you're 3 hours ahead, I imagine you'll awaken a little before I do . . .
. . . Gary

[enhanced08]

ok i tried that diagnositcs test and it says that the drive is not supported by this version.

[speeddude2000]

Originally posted by enhanced08dotcom
it then says 7340032 bytes need on the C drive. thats like 700 mb, right? its a 2.1 GB HDD.

this is as far as it will go. right after this text is the ''R:\>" thing again and i don't know what to type.

actually, thats only 7MB.

[GaryRouth]

You know, I should've remembered that we are talking about a 2.1 legacy drive . . . see if the 2002 version of the diagnostics still covered the early pre-Ultra-DMA drives: http://support.wdc.com/download/dlg/dlgdiag28.zip

I kept a bunch of the older floppy versions around - so if you can drum up a version of DataLifeGuard from version 1.2 -2.4, one of those will probably work. I use 2.4 a lot on the older Western Digitals.

I'd hoped that they'd kept version 11 backwards compatible - sounds like they didn't.
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...and speedude is correct. When reading numbers of bytes, remember to keep in mind the abbreviations we use - 7kb = 7,000 bytes - and since one mb = 1,000kb then 7mb = 7,000,000 bytes This is how they are counted by the hard disk manufacturers. In software, however, it changes a little: 1mb=1,024 bytes. This eventually can drive you crazy, and is the reason for countless posts for questions on "why my 120gb drive doesn't show 120gb of space in Windows Explorer? = this is all due to the hard disk folks counting mb=1,000 bytes, and Windows counting mb=1,024 bytes] End of trivia section.

[enhanced08]

ok i downloaded the file and when extracted and run it says press enter to view lisence aggrement or q to quit, both buttons close the window.... is there anyother way to get win95 on this disk?

thanks for clearing up all the bits and bytes. i was thinking it said kb not just b, my bad

[GaryRouth]

Apparently Western Digital treats the .zip download for the "DLG Diagnostics" differently that it does for the whole DataLifeGuard toolset download [which -at least in the past, when I've downloaded older versions, was a self-extracting tool that created a bootable floppy the used DR-DOS].

You'll have to first create a bootable diskette & then add that tiny little executable ["DlgDiag.exe"] to it, and run it from the A: prompt. The quickest way at the moment would probably just add it to your bootdisk.com diskette, if there's room. The WD diagnostic program is truly tiny - as I view it in WinZip 8 it lists it at 203k.

Run a scandisk on the hard drive you downloaded the .zip to. If you tried to run that executable while Windows is still running, it can possibly lead to trouble on the drive.

Here's an excerpt from the DlgDiag.txt that comes with the .zip download:
-------------------------------------------
TO RUN THE PROGRAM:

BACK UP DATA:
Before running the program, it is recommended that users back up all
data for all hard drives. The DLGDIAG test does not overwrite any data
on the drives and if used properly should not result in data loss, but
the regular backing up of data is always recommended.

STORE THE PROGRAM ON FLOPPY DRIVE:
The program must be run from a floppy drive, so if downloaded, copy all
files included in the zip to a formatted bootable floppy diskette in A:.
All files must be included for the program to function properly. Running
this program from the target hard drive while using certain operating
systems can result in data loss and an inaccurate scan of the target drive.

START THE PROGRAM: To start the program, type DLGDIAG at the
A:\ DOS prompt.

READ AND APPROVE LICENSE AGREEMENT:
In order for the DLGUDMA program to run, the License Agreement must
be agreed to by indicating "YES".

TEST EACH DRIVE:

Pick the 'Select Drive' option to see a list of all drives
installed and the current status of each drive.

For each drive that shows a status of 'TEST THE DRIVE', select
the drive by using the up/down arrows until the desired drive
is highlighted, then return to the main menu to test the drive.

Once the target drive is selected, chose either the Quick or
Extended Test Options. The Quick Test option may not be available
on earlier drives. If it is not available, then the program will
give the user the option to run the Extended Test.
--------------------------------------------
There are a few more details that follow that, so if you're curious, make sure to view the .txt file.

The zero-write option is the fourth in the menu. Hope it gets you going. It's possible that the drive is developing bad clusters - not unusual for a drive it's age. The extended test will let you know if it's still good to go. [Since it's given you trouble with both Win98 and Win2k . . . it's going to be an iffy chance for a smooth Win95 install, too]

. . . Gary

[enhanced08]

ok i tried putting the .exe on the bootdisk and running it from there, but the same screen opened. i hit enter to view lisence aggrement and it has an error because i forgot to add the one txt file with the aggrement on it to the disk. hit q and the screen stays blue but has the A:\> again.

i'm starting to think that this isn't going to work..... :(:(

[edfair]

Try a download of a 98SE boot disk from www.bootdisk.com. Boot with it. Run fdisk and delete the non-dos partition. Boot with it again and move to to CD and run setup.

Even though you are working with 98 as an operating system (DOS version) it will install the 95 without problems. But you will be limited to 2.1gb partition size.

[enhanced08]

ok, i'l give that a try. i might add that when i was in FDISK on the bootdisk (not the win98 one i'm making now) i deleted all partions and when i tried to make a new one it would freeze. i even left it run for something like 16 hours and still nothing...

[enhanced08]

well still no luck. i got the pc to boot from the bootdisk, ran fdisk and found that there was no non-dos partions (there was like 5 min ago with the win95 disk) so i deleted it anyway. created a new one and it gets to 9% freezes for a sec then starts over and freezes at 8%. i restarted and found there is a pri-dos partion now, tried installing win95 and it says it needs 7mb on local disk to install.

now what?

[GaryRouth]

It's starting to look more and more like your hard drive might be failing. It's probably 8 or 9 years old by now, and that's not unusual [in fact, that's better-than-average durability].

See if you can try the diagnostics one more time - this time with the license.txt file on the disk. It too is a tiny little file & should fit OK. I'd lay pretty good odds that the drive will return an error in the testing.

But it can't hurt to try!
. . . Gary

[enhanced08]

alright i'll add the file and give it one last try. i'll also see if i can add it as a aecondary drive in another pc to see if it will work that way.

[enhanced08]

well i tried adding the txt file in and that worked, i ran the write zero's thing and it got almost done and an error number 0558 came up. i restarted it and ran the tests and got the error 0258 restarted and ran the write to zero again and got 0558 again.

i also did the fdisk and it let me partion the drive, when i tried installing win95 tho it had the same 7mb needed on drive error.

i have the drive in this pc now as slave and winXP detected it but i can't see it.

[GaryRouth]

Well, the good news is: there are used drives available on eBay for very modest prices that still can work in older systems.

The bad news is, as somewhat expected: your drive is ready to retire from active service.

From Western Digital's support site docs for the 2.8 DLG Diagnostics:
"If you encounter the same error code more than once after re-testing, we recommend for you to create an RMA."

Your 0558 error code, and the fact that you receive it repeatedly, plus the fact that normal operations on the drive return unexpected results = all adds up to drive failure.
Here's the error code info:
"558 = SERVO 10+ = SERVO is data on track location. Ten or more instances of track information could not be found. Drive should be replaced."

Sorry it gave you such a hard time.
. . . Gary

[enhanced08]

well crap, i actually have some old HDDs already ordered from the trading post here. is the drive completely useless or could i still use it as a slave or something? if its trash i have plans for it..... lol

thanks for all the help Gary!!!

[GaryRouth]

It can't hurt the drive to keep running diagnostics on it, but I imagine it will keep stopping at the same errors - especially since you already tried a zero write. If a drive can't make it through a zero-write, it usually can't really do much of anything. And, by golly, they have to be disposed of at a hazardous waste collection area [you probably know that already, but it's good for the other members following this thread to know]. [In fact, if any forum readers are here in the So. Cal. area, there is a hazardous collection drive going on right now. L.A. Pierce College here in Woodland Hills is accepting hazardous materials for collection this coming weekend [July 17 + 18]

I have a stack of about 5 2.1gb - 4gb drives that will be making the Pierce College visit :) [. . . a 486, a k6-2, and an original Pentium, too --- my neighbors' old equipment has been konking out pretty regularly the last two years. . .

Paul Simon's song: "Everything Put Together Sooner or Later Falls Apart"
. . . I feel that way myself on Monday mornings
. . . Gary

[enhanced08]

actually i didn't know about how to throw them away. i'll run the diagnostics a few more times....


thanks foe the help.