Making my 486 net capable

[budbd]

Talked of the 486, as usual, but hey, having some successes. I installed a spare copy of windows 98 on my 486, along with a EISA modem, a dvd drive for the cd rom function(doubt I could do dvd), won an auction for 2x 64mb of ram modules for a total of 128mb of ram, and have plans to try to get on the net once my memory arrives.
I would like to install my pci 64 mb geforce mx400 card into the machine as well to see how it works, but the box says "pentium II or amd k6, 64 mb of ram, etc. Actually, experience tell me that I likely could install it on the 1993 486 in the pci card slot next to the vlb slot that currently has a ATI mach 64 card, with the old card removed of course.
Actually, I am having troubles getting the drivers off of windows 98, even though I have video of sixteen colors, and resolution of 640 x 480. Oh well, the card is weak anyway.
Actually, what is weaker is only a 604 mb hard drive in that machine, haha!

My serial mouse wasn't working right(would jump around with little movement) until I switched to a fat 32 file system from the fat 16 file system, now it works fine.

Who knows, I may have to wipe it out and reinstall the system, cause I may have troubles with modem/isp configuration, had the same problem several times before on previous other 98 installations on a different machine.

I wish I could find a large connector ps/2 mouse or an adaptor for such for smaller connector modern ps/2 mouse, cause the machine came with that 8 bit microsoft in port mouse card, but no mouse except the serial mouse that is installed, and ya know, I once had an adaptor like that years ago, when I used my serial to small ps/2 then to ps/2 small to large ps/2 connector, if I remember right, for the 286 business machine I had years ago. I had that conflict with the 8 bit joystick under windows 95, and haven't "ventured" to reinstall the joystick card, due to a conflict causing no mouse operation.

[GaryRouth]

See if you can scare up specs for the nVidia card before you try it - I can't remember when the PCI slots jumped to version 2.1. You'll want to make sure the PCI version of the 486 is recent enough for the nVidia. Since you know the model of the motherboard, the version of the PCI is usually listed in the specifications list, if you were able to find a old manual on the Internet. [I'll bet glc knows - he's a walking encyclopedia of computers!] . . .

You're really going to have to trim, trim, trim to keep disk space under control with Win98 on the 604mb hard drive. I'd normally recommend Win95 for that 486, but since it's the clock-tripled 486 (33x3=99 ~"100mhz") - it might be OK.

I'm wondering if the PCI problem might be causing the ATi mach64 some trouble, too.
If you go to the Mach64/CT/GT/GX/VT links in the "M" section of the ATi legacy products list, you might be able to identify your card exactly & look at the manual, which will have full specs. http://www.ati.com/support/identify/productname.html For all of the mach64 family, though, Ati recommends using the driver included on the Win98/98se installation CD. If you are currently stuck with the Standard VGA driver, you can try selecting that in Device Manager, select Driver, then select Update Driver - choose from a list - select Ati - then choose the model from the list.

When connecting to the Internet, see if your ISP allows simple connections using a "DUN connectoid" (you don't use the ISP's software - you just use Windows IE and Windows Dial-Up-Networking with the proper phone numbers and DNS server addresses entered in). That would be best, since you'll be watching your hard drive like a hawk. [Also, in Internet Options, you'll want to use the setting in the Security section that reads "Empty Temporary Internet Files when browser is closed"] . . . Hmm - by the way, if you have a DUN connectoid that works already on your Dell, you can copy those settings down & use them when you create your DUN connectoid for the 486 [the modem section will be different, assuming the two systems have different modems].

We're going to have to create a new forum, "Legacy Builders of Museum Pieces"
You'll be Director. :)
. . . Gary

[Pharaohwolf]

The board is an ASUS board and yes there is still some support on the USA ASUS site with manual and drivers. I also posted a reply on Budbd's original thread when he first tore this one down with some other hints to try on this board. Not sure if the pci slots are the newest version so I wouldn't run out and buy an nvidia card but maybe can borrow one to try. I have used an STB Nitro 4mb card in my 486's and have had good luck. Also the older modems on the 486 machines rarely operate without problems with the modern connection speeds. I would opt for an external modem which I have had better performance with. They plug through one of the com ports and are easy to set up. Hope this helps. Oh and the one suggestion I would make if it were mine is go back to Win95 with that small drive and you will have less problems at least until you could find maybe a 2gb drive. You can always upgrade again.

[Pharaohwolf]

I forgot to mention another concern I had in my other reply. I was under the impression that you were wanting to keep this computer vintage yet all the upgrading suggests overtaxing the components of it. You may also find that it will not recognise the memory you bought either. It depends highly on the chip configuration of the simm. Like I suggested in my post to your original thread on this machine, I have had many of these old 486's and never came across any 64mb 72 pin simms much less any that would work in them. The 32mb are still rare but available maybe on eBay or a memory store and the 16mb are a dime a dozen still. I'm not trying to take a byte out of your project. I am just giving some input. Good luck anyway and keep us informed.

[budbd]

Thanks for the replies. I of course already own the nividia pci card, so I wouldn't have to buy anything.

Actually today, I bought a system real cheap, a Pentium 133, and it has a full range of goodies in it, to include a 1.9 gig hard drive, so I am set. This one has the dual memory setup of four 72 pin simm or two 186 pin dim. Not sure right now without research what sort of dimm, cause I tried to plug in a 32 mb dimm that went into my PII Gateway in the past, and the latches are too low to latch it in, and it has 64 mb of ram(4x 16 mb simms). Can't figure out if the simms are edo or not, they are not marked.

I guess if I screwed up on the 128 mb of ram, surely they will work in the P 133. Having problems with the p 133, which it seems it wouldn't read a cd rom drive or a 3 1/2. I just formatted the hard drive on that and I still couldn't go to drive a: Oh well, the hard drive needed formatted anyway, since it had someone elses clutter and such.

I do know one thing about the p133, that on start up, it displays "cmos checksum error-defaults loaded", and "cmos battery failed".

Haha, I feel kind of numb today, especially considering the advice I may not be able to use the 128 mb of 64 mb ram modules. AFter all, the board says it will take 64 mb each slot of the two slots, and the ram was not edo ram.

Really, you are right, I should just stop at just using it for DOS applications. I figure if I keep it that way for DOS programs, the 16 mb of ram and the installation of win 98 should be okay, since I can just restart the computer in dos mode from win 98.
Actually, this really is all entertaining, and am not spending alot of money, except on that ram which cost me $23(like I was a fool).

[GaryRouth]

You'll eventually have to add a room onto your garage to hold all your 386, 486, and original Pentiums :)

If you can find any markings on the motherboard, you can probably search those in Google and come up with a make/model, and perhaps a manual. I'd guess that a Socket 7 board with both Simms and Dimms would be a Via chipset board - something like one of the Via "Apollo" "MVP" series. If you happened to buy single-sided PC-66 Dimms, you might have a chance of them working - but you'll need a manual, most likely. Most of those older boards required you to set jumpers on the motherboard for the speed settings: for the memory, the clock multiplier, cpu frequency . . . much of what is now done in the motherboard's Bios.

The error message displayed pretty much might mean what it says: either the Bios settings are way off, or the battery needs replacing. The battery costs $1.50 - it's probably a Sony CR-2032 3v., if it's a little coin battery.

A socket 7 board should handle 128mb of PC-66 without any problem, if it's still in working condition. But you're going to have to hunt down the settings. DocMemory, since it's an older program, can help you get an idea of how stable things are. If a simple memory test runs OK in DR-DOS, you've got a chance that both memory and motherboard will be allright.

I've got to run - busy weekend - by the time I get back I imagine you'll have an Apple II on a folding table somewhere . . . You are having a LOT more fun than I am!
. . . Gary

[budbd]

Haha, let me tell ya, I am real frustrated! I couldn't get the 486 to work with the 1.9 gig hard drive formatted, even though I stuck a 3 1/2 disk with win 98 restoration procedures, nor even to get it to work with the 1.9 as a slave drive. I couldn/t get the 486 to do anything with the 1.9 gig hard drive.

In fact, it will not load drivers still even off the win 98 cd. Luckily, the 6x cd drive from the p133 is okay, it will work in the 486.

I am thinking about for sure puytting back the p133 with everything taken out(video card, cd drive, sound/joystick card, modem) and just trying to get it going again, likely I will have better luck.

Yeah, maybe the 486 need some kind of fancy jumper settings, and maybe the P133 will need a new battery and bios setting IF I can actually get it to recognize a 3 1/2 diskette in order to reinstall windows 98.

The only thing I regret is buying that 2x 64mb non edo 72 pin memory on auction.

[budbd]

Wow, what a learning experience! I got the win 98 loaded on the 1.9 gig hard drive, after three attempts at an install. SEems the 486 didn't like the smaller 600 mb drive hooked up as as slave drive.

Then my sound card, an Opti Audio 16(EISA slot type card, not pci) can't load a driver off windows 98 that will work, not even in "other devices"

I have a heck of a time with the serial mouse suddenly not working, ma be the mouse itself, but happens when I tried to mess around with the sound card.
I loaded msn version 8 and tried to get online with only 16 megabytes of ram, and the modem seems to try to work, but I couldn't connect. Beside, msn 8 calls for at least a Pentium 233mhz or more and 64 mb of ram.

I would reall like to play an old A10 tank buster cd that I have, it loaded on just fine, but in theory I would need a newer joystick/audio card, pci of course.

But that darned serial mouse, I have a heck of a time with it, seems the computer just stops recognizing it. I can see why built in mouse connections were made, since I feel, in a layman's opinion, that later windows operating systems had too much conflicts with serial mouse's.

If I didn't have a boot disk with a driver for one particular cd drive, and the particular cd drive in question, I would have had a tough time installing win 98, but I just read another persons posting on the difficulties, and though I got defeated early on and had to remove the original cd drive from a defunct machine that the boot disk orignally pertained to, then reinstalled hardware for the 1996 IBM 6x cd drive I ended up using, ONCE WIN 98 WAS COMPLETELY INSTALLED of course.

[GaryRouth]

Take a look over at http://www.driversguide.com for a driver for your Opti sound card. [There is a generic login you can use, "drivers" and then "all"]. It may be that a Win98se driver won't be listed, and you'll have to try your luck with a Win95 one. Windows 95 is actually still the Windows version I think matches the 486/100 best.

Once you have a working sound driver in, boot into Safe Mode, remove all the mice listed in Device Manager, and reboot. It should redetect and reinstall the serial mouse.
[If that old motherboard relies on an add-in I/O card to provide the serial ports, you may want to check and see if all those ports were found and listed correctly in Device Manager - if not, post that info & we'll see what options are available] . . .

The manual for your motherboard might be hard to find, but it would come in handy!
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...regarding the Internet: you really don't want to use an ISP's software to connect with a 486: unless you can find a really old version. Use a DUN connectoid that you make yourself. Try to keep whatever programs you load onto the 486 to those with lighter machine requirements: you have a greater chance of it struggling with programs from recent years. The Minimum System Requirements sometimes actually mean it :)]

[budbd]

Well, I have just about had all the fun I feel I am going to have with the 486, especially that opti sound card, I would like to bash it against a brick wall and incinterate all the pieces, haha.
I re installed all the stuff back in the Pentium 133, except the opti sound card, which once I removed it and chucked it into a cardboard box, the Pentium 133 started working well, and its mouse started working.

The P133(well, that is what they said it was, a 133) is working pretty good right now, but I cannot use my existing MSN version 8 on it either for only one reason only I am figuring, that it does not meet minimum system requirements of 233 mhz.

Funny, msn 8 will accept a 28.8 modem, 64 mb of ram, and I have 33.6 modem installed.

[budbd]

Since I got m P133 on the net with a manual connection and just using Internet Explorer, I believe I could in theory just switch all the parts I used from the P133 to the 486 and get it to work. Actually, I may have some extra ram for the 486 that may work, a 128 mb worth(2x64mb), so with sufficient ram, a 33.6 modem, the 1.9 gig hard drive, win 98, I could in fact get online.

I might try it this week just to see if it will work.

[glc]

Check my reply in your other thread regarding ram in the 486.

If you have a true hardware ISA modem with jumpers (not plug and play only) the 486 will do a fine job doing basic surfing and e-mailing with a manual DUN connection (and I know MSN *can* be configured this way). Best way to configure the ports and stuff is this - set one port to COM 1 in bios or on the expansion card - however your motherboard is set up - and disable the second port. Plug the mouse into COM 1. Set the modem to COM 2, and set the port in Windows to 115200, 8, none, 1, hardware. I highly recommend a US Robotics 5687 modem.

By the way, I do not recommend Win98 or IE4+ on a 486 due to the browser/OS integration eating up your resources. I'd run 95B with a 3rd party browser and e-mail client.