MP3 player recommendations

[inflames988]

Hey, ive kinda grown out of my minidisc player, having 20 mds kinda defeats the purpose of portability....anyways im looking into an iPod or something, but ive got a collection of 150 or so cds (metal :D ), and ive heard there are better types of player than iPod that are similar...anyways im looking for something to hold at least 5,000 songs (probably a 20gb iPod), and looking to buy through ebay or half.com or something to try and keep it under 200 bucks.

[inflames988]

PS i dunno how much hdd space it would take to save all the songs to my hdd i have 80gb hdd which should work, and at first i didnt like the idea of doing this but now i see that ipods kinda automatically sync which is cool and wouldnt mind doing this although it woudl take forever to get it all on the computer, either way is good but id like something that transfers fast w/ usb 2.0, dont have firewire

[Hi Ho]

The Creative Nomad Zen 30GB (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=55-102-127&depa=0) seems to be just what you're looking for. In my opinion it is a much better value than the Ipod. It also has a replacable battery, like that of a camcorder, which the Ipod does not have. It is also about $80 cheaper than the 20 GB Ipod. The 30 GB model should hold all of your music and then some.

[Punked Out Comp]

The Rio Karma is a very good mp3 player with a 20gb hdd

[juicelooser]

Although others may be cheaper than the iPod, I have found nothing I like as much as it. I didn't really realize how cool the iPod was until I had it in my hand and used it. I just love how compact it is, how intuitive it is, and it feels like a full package. Now, I haven't tried either of the above MP3 players, but I absolutely love my iPod. I don't think I'll ever use anything else.

[inflames988]

yea i know wat you mean, i picked one up and found myself scrollng through the songs perfectly and finding whatever i want in a minute or two, gotta love the little wheel thing.

[Punked Out Comp]

Is that your desicion then?

[Hi Ho]

Creative has a player with a similar interface to the Ipod. The Zen Touch (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=55-102-204&depa=0). Still, the standard Zen interface is nice. I have used both the Ipod and the Zen and I like them both. The price and the battery are what keep me leaning toward Creative.

[inflames988]

Well i would LIKE the iPod, but i like to consider all my options and see if i can find anything better (and save a few bucks) before i purchase anything. Basically i need something around 200 bucks or less, 20gb or more space, and the iPod interface is nice but not my first priority. Is there anywhere i could buy used for this price? im not picky about what generation but i do like the newest one alot, my friend has one.

[inflames988]

Just took a look at the Zen touch, looks really nice, but how does it supposedly hold the 10,000 tracks when the 20gb ipod is only 5,000? Also i listen to metal and the tracks tend to be a little to a lot longer than most, sometimes up to 10 mins, do they compress them more, and is sound quality affected?

[Hi Ho]

The Ipod uses Apple's ACC format instead of MP3. The Creative players can use both MP3 and WMA. I am guessing that ACC files are a bit larger than MP3's or WMA's. Personally I like WMA format best. I think it sounds better and the files are just a smidge smaller. If all your files are at 128kb/s then you should get close to 5,000 songs on it. I would just go with the cheaper 30 GB model to be sure.

[damontgo]

i have an Ipod, and I have to say that it is the 2nd best purchase i have ever made, (1st being myiMac :D ) and it synchronizes flawlessly with iTunes, which is ,IMO, the best player out there. Yes, the ACC file format is a little bit larger, but I think it's of higher quality than WMA, for sure. Also, Apple sends out updates for the iPods, and has the absolute greatest customer support i have ever experienced. After i owned mine for about a year, i experienced a rare glitch where the LCD screen just freezes, you can't even turn the thing off, or do a software restore on it. So i called apple, and I was up and running about 10 mins later, with all of my songs still on the HD! iPod supports Firewire and USB, and is crazy quick when managing songs with iTunes. spend the extra $70 (20gb goes for $270 after a student discount, and everyone knows someone in college, if not i'll get on for you :) ) Also, who can beat all of the cool accessories for iPod?

[juicelooser]

The Ipod uses Apple's ACC format instead of MP3.

You can play MP3s along with many other audio types.

[Yuanji]

i think that you can get a firmware flash soon for the new sony walkman that lets you play MP3s on it. its more affordable then the Ipod and has a longer bat. life.

[kram 2.0]

You can play MP3s along with many other audio types.
Everytime iTunes uploads the files from your computer to the iPod, it translates it into ACC format - a special iPod reading format. I guess it's for reasons of protecting the sale of the iPod.

kram

[juicelooser]

Everytime iTunes uploads the files from your computer to the iPod, it translates it into ACC format - a special iPod reading format. I guess it's for reasons of protecting the sale of the iPod.

kram

I don't know how it would be doing this because I accidently (don't ask how) deleted all my music files on my computer and, to get them back, I took the MP3 files off my iPod. As far as I know they are still stored as MP3 files on the iPod. AAC is just iTunes' format because it includes DRM.

[Yuanji]

theres a program http://ipodsoft.com/ipodagent.aspx what it's called but it lets you take the music off ur ipod and put it into other comps i think it converts it back to mp3. worth testing out. they did a segment on the prog today on the screen savers.

[Mac Medic]

Everytime iTunes uploads the files from your computer to the iPod, it translates it into ACC format - a special iPod reading format. I guess it's for reasons of protecting the sale of the iPod.

kram

No, thats not quite correct. I tunes transfers AAC, MP3, AIFF, WAV and apple lossless audio formats. There is no conversion to the ipod. You may be thinking of the Airport Express wireless audio streaming that converts audio to the Apple Lossless format on the fly. But and MP3 on an ipod is still an MP3 when you transfer it back to the PC.

The best part of the ipod is itunes IMHO. Organization, tagging, searching, speed etc are all far superior to any other player, and Apples fairplay DRM for purchased songs is the fairest system available, allowing you to copy to 5 PC's, burn unlimited CD's copy to unlimited ipods. Try getting that with Napster and WMA.

[Hi Ho]

Apples fairplay DRM for purchased songs is the fairest system available, allowing you to copy to 5 PC's, burn unlimited CD's copy to unlimited ipods. Try getting that with Napster and WMA.
With Napster and WMA you can burn unlimited CD's and copy to three PC's. Who even needs it on two PC's? :)

[Mac Medic]

My understanding with napster (i can't visit the site on a mac but thats a different story) is that the DRM is different for each song. Some allow 1-3 burns while others allow more, unless that has changed since the launch of the service. My music is on 4 machines right now, will be on 5 when i replace the G5 she took.

[Hi Ho]

As far as I can tell it's unlimited burning on all songs. Napster, Walmart Music, MSN Music, and Musicmatch are all integrated into WMP 10. I have bought several CD's from both Wal-Mart music and Napster and I have burned songs to many CD's.

[NYyankz225]

Hey, Im new here and Im curious whether to buy the Zen Touch (20 GB) or the Zen Xtra (40 GB).

I dont really see any special reason to get the Touch over the Xtra besides the Touch pad obviously, but is that worth losing 20 GBs? Are there any features that I'm missing that makes the Touch better? Thanks for any help..

[inflames988]

i just heard the ipod only lasts for 1-2 years or 18 months? is that true? no way im spending $300 for that.

[juicelooser]

There have been reports of the batteries on iPods dying after 18 months. They are replaceable by sending them into Apple for $99, or you can replace it yourself.

[Hi Ho]

or you can replace it yourself
It's not that simple. If you replace it yourself you void the warranty and risk damaging the unit. That's the thing about the Ipod. A replacement battery for a Creative Zen player is around $50 and those batteries have been lasting quite a bit longer. Replacing the battery in the Zen is as easy as pressing a button to pop off the front cover. I like the looks and the interface of the Ipod and I would love to have one. However, I'm not going to pay the prices they charge especially since they don't last long.

[nubbler]

i think that you can get a firmware flash soon for the new sony walkman that lets you play MP3s on it. its more affordable then the Ipod and has a longer bat. life.


It also has a switch to turn off automatic charging when placing in dock to sync, somthing that haunts the IPOD and uses cycles therefore making the battry life smaller, plus it has a 30 hour batt life, IPOD doesn't come close to that.

[nubbler]

Here is the link for the Sony thing. MP3 player (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Network_Walkman_NW_HD1__20GB_/4505-6490_7-30959614.html?tag=tab ) I know all the reviews are bad, here's why, ATRAC3 - don't worry, they have or will shortly be releasing an update that lets you play MP3, cuz right now it aint a Mp3 player actually.

[NYyankz225]

Hey I have another question about the Zen Xtra... does it play secure WMAs like the Zen Touch does? Cause I have Napster and the original reason I liked the Touch was because it played secure WMAs. Then I found out about the Xtra and that you could get a 40 GB one for the same price as the 20 GB Zen Touch.

I would really appreciate if someone replied :D.

[Hi Ho]

I believe that any player that plays WMA files will play secure WMA files.

[NYyankz225]

So then if that's true, what do you all recommend? The Zen Xtra or the Zen Touch? Do I go with the more space of the Xtra or is it really necessary? Should I go with the Touch because it's newer and Creative added a few new features? Or is there another MP3 player for around 250 that I should get?

[Hi Ho]

The major difference betweent eh Zen Touch and the Zen Extra is that the Touch has the Ipod-like interface. Other than that they are almost the same. I'd go with the Zen Extra.

[NYyankz225]

I do like the interface and overall appearance on the Touch much better than the Extra, they dont even compare as far as looks go. Not that I care about appearance THAT much, but if they are the exact same thing besides appearance you might as go with the better looking one right? Anyway, you're saying the extra 20 GBs on the Xtra (you can get a 40 GB Xtra for the same price as a 20 GB Touch) far outweigh the appearance and any minor upgrades on the Touch? Obviously 20 GB is a lot so I've got to agree with you...I've just been trying to find a way to justify getting the Touch because of how damn nice it looks even though I know it's not the better deal. Although they do have that nice FM/ FM recording remote for the Zen Touch that costs $50...but it's probably not worth it anyway

I guess I'll be getting the Xtra, however I would appreciate if someone who owns/ has used both to give their comparisons on the two. There's got to be something about the Touch besides the Touch pad that I've missed in all of the hours I've done on researching both of them ;).

Thanks for your help Hi Ho.

[MaLfUnCtIoN]

wow. i was debating the ame thing (zen xtra vs 20 gig ipod). i heard the Zen doesnt play vbr's. is that true? a lot of my music ends up being vbr and i dont wanna have to go through the time and work of replacing it all.

also, do you have to install software for the Ipod? or can you treat it as a storage device and just copy paste or send to?

[NYyankz225]

Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds picking an MP3 player a really tough job.

I'm pretty sure you're right, I think the Zens only play WMAs MP3s and WAVs. I had originally considered an Ipod but I found out they they dont accept WMAs, which are a lot more common for me than .vbr.

[ric449]

Creative Zen Touch review at Tom's:

http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20041007/index.html

[NYyankz225]

Well thanks everybody, I think I'm going with the Zen Xtra (for now). The only concern I had with it was that it looked too fragile but I havent heard many complaints.

[Hi Ho]

The Zen Extra is made of aluminum. I could hardly call it fragile.

[NYyankz225]

I wish I could find one person who owns it so I can just ask them a couple of questions and be done with it.

I'm curious how the bass is. I like a lot of bass...and I can't find any bass settings on the Zen, although I did find it on the Karma. Is there any way to change the bass on the Zen? Or perhaps a suggestion for a pair of headphones that have a nice kick to them ;).

[Hi Ho]

It has an equalizer that will let you adjust bass, trebel, and everything in between. I'm not sure about the headphones that come with it.

[NYyankz225]

Are you serious? If I was talking to you in person I would...well you dont wanna know what I'd do :p .

If you're correct than that was my last reservation...Creative Nomad Zen Xtra (phew...long name) here I come!

[Hi Ho]

HERE (http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i=2103) is a review of the 40 GB Zen Extra.

[NYyankz225]

Thanks for the review but I didnt see anything about adjusting sound settings at all there....

[Hi Ho]

Well I can assure you that it has an equalizer. HERE (http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=9288&nav=1) is the features page. Also, HERE (http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i=2103&p=8) is where it talks about it in the review. Top of the page.

[NYyankz225]

Damn, I'm afraid that if I hit that thing once it's gonna break. I'm not talking about the outside, but the inside doesnt sound too safe. The review said it has no shock absorbtion...and I'm pretty active with my electronics.

:(

I just wish there was a mp3 player that had everything I wanted...

[ric449]

According to Tom's, the Zen touch can take a beating. The Zen touch is basically a Zen Xtra with a touchpad, so I guess the same applies.

[NYyankz225]

Alright sounds good to me.

One question Hi Ho, I thought equalization and Bass and Treble were different? With the Rio Karma I'm pretty sure it has both of them. But if you're saying you can change the bass with the equalizer then thats all I need.

[nubbler]

Alright sounds good to me.

One question Hi Ho, I thought equalization and Bass and Treble were different? With the Rio Karma I'm pretty sure it has both of them. But if you're saying you can change the bass with the equalizer then thats all I need.


A equalizer can adjust a range of frequencies. The low frequencies are bass and the high frequencies are treble and then everything inbetween is "everything inbetween".

[inflames988]

Are the touch/xtra similar in terms of size to the iPod

[NYyankz225]

No, they are both bigger. The Xtra is quite a bit bigger and heavier. The Touch is closer but still bigger.

The Xtra- 4.4 x 3.0 x .86 @ 7.9 oz
New iPod- 4.1 x 2.4 x .60 @ 6.2 oz
Zen Touch- 4.1 x 2.7 x 0.9 @ 7.1 oz

[inflames988]

Yeah, thats still not huge or anything though.

[NYyankz225]

Yea, I dunno...everyone says its so big but it doesnt even seem that big when you look at the measurements.

[nubbler]

No, they are both bigger. The Xtra is quite a bit bigger and heavier. The Touch is closer but still bigger.

The Xtra- 4.4 x 3.0 x .86 @ 7.9 oz
New iPod- 4.1 x 2.4 x .60 @ 6.2 oz
Zen Touch- 4.1 x 2.7 x 0.9 @ 7.1 oz
Yeah, thats still not huge or anything though.

Yea, I dunno...everyone says its so big but it doesnt even seem that big when you look at the measurements.

It's not big, not bad at all.

[Dswissmiss]

Very cool thread! I've never heard of the Zen Touch, but I'll look into it. Anyone know if it plays ogg vorbis files?

EDIT: meh...no linux support, I'll wait.

[inflames988]

ive finally decided...on the 20gb ipod...im gunna need a case for it, ive seen basically two kinds, a leather case and one that is like plastic and covers the ipod so that you can still use the wheel, any recommendations? also whats the difference between the ipod at apple.com and the one at newegg (it has like HP as part of it??)

[Mac Medic]

I use the contour showcase with my ipods.

http://www.contourshowcase.com/cdi_mac/fla_source/mac_products/showcase/

There is no difference between the Apple ipod and HP ipod, same unit with a different logo.