fedz
01-04-2005, 05:33 PM
Firstly, these are supposed to be comments. I don't want them to be biased or to be derogative towards any company in particular.
I expect all people posting in this thread to do the same, i.e.
NO FLAMING
NO FANBOYISM
NO ATi vs. NVidia WARS
OK, these are comments on the latest generation of cards, and a quick indication of performance/price at the end of the post.
Enjoy...
Reliability and companies:
I've used both ATi and Nvidia. ATi cards seem to be more reliable in terms of the percentage of cards that work properly (better quality control), especially the 'made by ATi' cards. My ATi X800XT-PE runs like a bloody dream, no probs installing or running so far. Of course some companies should be stayed clear of, but I find that there are less than Nvidia.
Nvidia companies are harder to judge. The safest is to go with the equivalent of 'made by Nvidia' (eVGA), but some companies are literally dodgy.
Sometimes Nvidia cards can be hard to get running, I've found them harder than ATi cards at any rate.
However, I've found that once I've got an Nvidia running, I've never had any probs with any of them thereafter. The drivers are stellar (excluding their original FarCry drivers) and the coolbits feature is great. They tend to be more stable, and more or less run anything with a minimum of error messages.
I can't say the same for ATi; their drivers are always a step behind and I've had cards develop problems (notably 9800XT's). Every time I try to run a new game on ATi it's the same deal: check for newest drivers, install, see if it works, if not roll back the driver (usually with a resulting performance hit), complain to ATi, get an autoreply 95% of the time, wait for latest drivers[/irritation].
Instead, I now use Omega. They have a feature allowing overclocking, and perform much better. They also provide support for older ATi cards. My laptop always got an error message when running HL2 - "your graphics card may not be powerful enough" - on the old ATi drivers (the latest didn't recognise my graphics card :mad: ) and I couldn't play the game 80% of the time as the screen just went black. Omega drivers removed the error message, supported my card, and performed much better :rolleyes:. I know that I'm talking about old technologies, but these are new drivers.
It's a testament to Nvidia's driver quality that Omega drivers don't give a noticeable performance boost with Nvidia cards.
Linux:
This is still on the driver topic, as ATi's Linux drivers are appalling (see my thread in this forum). Basically, a FX5900 beats an X800XT in most games, and sometimes even a FX5700U.
To cut a long story short, if you're running Linux, use Nvidia.
Card layout/Performance:
Nowadays, both companies are on par performance wise, although I'd say that Nvidia has a major advantage in bringing out SLi so early and with so little forewarning (the fact that ATi have got nowhere yet in their attempts to rival SLi and their release of the X850 series tells the tale).
ATi has a good, cool X800 architecture, with low power consumption and decent components. The 110nm architecture looks very promising, and runs cooler than any other. Their X800XT rivals the 6800Ultra, and the platinum edition version is better performance wise in most games. However, the X800pro fails to match up to the 6800GT, and the PE is very hard to find. ATi were also a little bit slow in implementing a PCI-E to AGP bridge compared to Nvidia.
Nvidia's SLi and manufacturing problems have forced ATi to revise their lineup. This included the introduction of the X800 (to replace the nearly non-existent X700XT) and the X800XL (a $350 rival to the 6800GT, attempting to beat it price-wise instead of performance-wise). ATi have also introduced the X850 series, the X850XT basically a renamed X800XT-PE. Out of interest, just look at the different logos for the X800 (http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx800/index.html) and X850 (http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx850/index.html) series on the ATi website. The X850 logo looks as if it was designed in 5 minutes...
On the AGP side of things ATi seem to be content to let the 9800pro rival the 6600GT, but this is an uneven contest.
Budget-wise ATi's X300's are very good and well priced cards, and match up to the newer 6200's quite well.
Nvidia are also much more organised this round compared to their last efforts. Although the single card performance prize goes to ATi for the X850XT-PE, Nvidia have got a more compact and well defined card layout; less than 4 cards in each 6--- series (6800, 6600, 6200) and a clear indication to where they lie performance wise. The architecture is similar to ATi's, but consumes more power and offers support for SM3.0. Their GPU's have a very good dedicated video processor, which ATi's lineup lacks.
They also have had less problems delivering cards on time and in good quantities.
Manufacturing and delivery:
Nvidia are clearly ahead here, as previously mentioned. ATi have promised a lot of cards which seemed to perform very well (X700XT, X800XT-PE), but these have never materialised on time and in the right quantities. Nvidia however promised the 6600GT and duly delivered in massive quantities. The same goes for the 6800GT and Ultra. The only blip on their screen seems to be the 6800 Ultra Extremes and the video processor on the early 6800's.
The lineups:
Firstly, and on a side note, there are currently 6 X800's at the moment and the last one isn't even worth counting; X800, X800SE, X800pro, X800XL, X800XT, X800XT-PE. Note that the X800SE performs better than the X800 :confused:
Prices are estimated, so please correct me if they're wrong.
ATi (best to worst performance):
X850XT PE $550
X800XT PE $600
X850XT $500
X850pro $400
X800XT $450
X800pro $400
X800XL $350
X800SE $250
X800 $250
X700XT $250 - see below
X700pro $150-200
X600XT $150
X600pro $100
X300 $75
X300SE $50
Due to the vast number of cards, there are discrepancies here. I've highlighted a couple in red, but ATi really need to get their pricing right (the X800XT-PE is much too expensive compared to the better performing X850XT-PE), and the same goes for the X800pro and X800SE. These three cards will, however, probably be discontinued.
ATi's X700XT, although discontinued, has been taken up by companies such as Abit and sometimes revamped, to produce notably the Abit Fatal1ty X700XT (http://www.fatal1ty.com/fat_store/fatal1ty_x700xt_videocard.aspx), with much better specs than the reference design. Connect3d and Sapphire have chosen to stay with the reference design, and have priced theirs at approx. $250, and so the 6600GT will probably remain the king of the $200 sweetspot (the standard X800 will also be priced at $250).
Nvidia (best to worse performance):
6800 Ultra $500
6800GT $400
6800 $275-350 - depending on the type (128MB/256MB)
6800LE $250
6600GT $200
6600 $100-150
6200 $50-150 - depending on memory bus, speeds & size and GPU speed
The pricing is much more even here, but there are problems with the 6200's overlapping with the 6600's. This will be sorted, according to Nvidia, when more are available but there definitively is a problem. There are no plans to discontinue any of the card series yet.
Look out for:
Gigabyte GV-3D1 dual GPU (http://www.ocworkbench.com/2004/gigabyte/gv-3d1/g1.htm)
256MB 1.6ns GDDR3/2x 6600GT GPU/256bit/500MHz:1120MHz
This card supposedly performs better than a X850XT-PE, and will sell at $300-350. If gigabyte get this right (*that memory is just waiting to be overclocked to it's rated speeds :D), it's going to be a beast...
Abit Fatal1ty X700XT (http://www.fatal1ty.com/fat_store/fatal1ty_x700xt_videocard.aspx)
256MB 2.0ns GDDR3/X700XT GPU/128bit/475MHz:1050MHz
Abit has finally gone back to modding with their fatal1ty line, named after supposedly the world's best gamer. This looks to be a hot card, especially if it is priced well.
Sorry about the long post, but I had a lot of info to get in (took me ages).
Comments, remarks, facts, links, corrections etc. welcome.
Happy new year everyone
:) fedz
I expect all people posting in this thread to do the same, i.e.
NO FLAMING
NO FANBOYISM
NO ATi vs. NVidia WARS
OK, these are comments on the latest generation of cards, and a quick indication of performance/price at the end of the post.
Enjoy...
Reliability and companies:
I've used both ATi and Nvidia. ATi cards seem to be more reliable in terms of the percentage of cards that work properly (better quality control), especially the 'made by ATi' cards. My ATi X800XT-PE runs like a bloody dream, no probs installing or running so far. Of course some companies should be stayed clear of, but I find that there are less than Nvidia.
Nvidia companies are harder to judge. The safest is to go with the equivalent of 'made by Nvidia' (eVGA), but some companies are literally dodgy.
Sometimes Nvidia cards can be hard to get running, I've found them harder than ATi cards at any rate.
However, I've found that once I've got an Nvidia running, I've never had any probs with any of them thereafter. The drivers are stellar (excluding their original FarCry drivers) and the coolbits feature is great. They tend to be more stable, and more or less run anything with a minimum of error messages.
I can't say the same for ATi; their drivers are always a step behind and I've had cards develop problems (notably 9800XT's). Every time I try to run a new game on ATi it's the same deal: check for newest drivers, install, see if it works, if not roll back the driver (usually with a resulting performance hit), complain to ATi, get an autoreply 95% of the time, wait for latest drivers[/irritation].
Instead, I now use Omega. They have a feature allowing overclocking, and perform much better. They also provide support for older ATi cards. My laptop always got an error message when running HL2 - "your graphics card may not be powerful enough" - on the old ATi drivers (the latest didn't recognise my graphics card :mad: ) and I couldn't play the game 80% of the time as the screen just went black. Omega drivers removed the error message, supported my card, and performed much better :rolleyes:. I know that I'm talking about old technologies, but these are new drivers.
It's a testament to Nvidia's driver quality that Omega drivers don't give a noticeable performance boost with Nvidia cards.
Linux:
This is still on the driver topic, as ATi's Linux drivers are appalling (see my thread in this forum). Basically, a FX5900 beats an X800XT in most games, and sometimes even a FX5700U.
To cut a long story short, if you're running Linux, use Nvidia.
Card layout/Performance:
Nowadays, both companies are on par performance wise, although I'd say that Nvidia has a major advantage in bringing out SLi so early and with so little forewarning (the fact that ATi have got nowhere yet in their attempts to rival SLi and their release of the X850 series tells the tale).
ATi has a good, cool X800 architecture, with low power consumption and decent components. The 110nm architecture looks very promising, and runs cooler than any other. Their X800XT rivals the 6800Ultra, and the platinum edition version is better performance wise in most games. However, the X800pro fails to match up to the 6800GT, and the PE is very hard to find. ATi were also a little bit slow in implementing a PCI-E to AGP bridge compared to Nvidia.
Nvidia's SLi and manufacturing problems have forced ATi to revise their lineup. This included the introduction of the X800 (to replace the nearly non-existent X700XT) and the X800XL (a $350 rival to the 6800GT, attempting to beat it price-wise instead of performance-wise). ATi have also introduced the X850 series, the X850XT basically a renamed X800XT-PE. Out of interest, just look at the different logos for the X800 (http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx800/index.html) and X850 (http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx850/index.html) series on the ATi website. The X850 logo looks as if it was designed in 5 minutes...
On the AGP side of things ATi seem to be content to let the 9800pro rival the 6600GT, but this is an uneven contest.
Budget-wise ATi's X300's are very good and well priced cards, and match up to the newer 6200's quite well.
Nvidia are also much more organised this round compared to their last efforts. Although the single card performance prize goes to ATi for the X850XT-PE, Nvidia have got a more compact and well defined card layout; less than 4 cards in each 6--- series (6800, 6600, 6200) and a clear indication to where they lie performance wise. The architecture is similar to ATi's, but consumes more power and offers support for SM3.0. Their GPU's have a very good dedicated video processor, which ATi's lineup lacks.
They also have had less problems delivering cards on time and in good quantities.
Manufacturing and delivery:
Nvidia are clearly ahead here, as previously mentioned. ATi have promised a lot of cards which seemed to perform very well (X700XT, X800XT-PE), but these have never materialised on time and in the right quantities. Nvidia however promised the 6600GT and duly delivered in massive quantities. The same goes for the 6800GT and Ultra. The only blip on their screen seems to be the 6800 Ultra Extremes and the video processor on the early 6800's.
The lineups:
Firstly, and on a side note, there are currently 6 X800's at the moment and the last one isn't even worth counting; X800, X800SE, X800pro, X800XL, X800XT, X800XT-PE. Note that the X800SE performs better than the X800 :confused:
Prices are estimated, so please correct me if they're wrong.
ATi (best to worst performance):
X850XT PE $550
X800XT PE $600
X850XT $500
X850pro $400
X800XT $450
X800pro $400
X800XL $350
X800SE $250
X800 $250
X700XT $250 - see below
X700pro $150-200
X600XT $150
X600pro $100
X300 $75
X300SE $50
Due to the vast number of cards, there are discrepancies here. I've highlighted a couple in red, but ATi really need to get their pricing right (the X800XT-PE is much too expensive compared to the better performing X850XT-PE), and the same goes for the X800pro and X800SE. These three cards will, however, probably be discontinued.
ATi's X700XT, although discontinued, has been taken up by companies such as Abit and sometimes revamped, to produce notably the Abit Fatal1ty X700XT (http://www.fatal1ty.com/fat_store/fatal1ty_x700xt_videocard.aspx), with much better specs than the reference design. Connect3d and Sapphire have chosen to stay with the reference design, and have priced theirs at approx. $250, and so the 6600GT will probably remain the king of the $200 sweetspot (the standard X800 will also be priced at $250).
Nvidia (best to worse performance):
6800 Ultra $500
6800GT $400
6800 $275-350 - depending on the type (128MB/256MB)
6800LE $250
6600GT $200
6600 $100-150
6200 $50-150 - depending on memory bus, speeds & size and GPU speed
The pricing is much more even here, but there are problems with the 6200's overlapping with the 6600's. This will be sorted, according to Nvidia, when more are available but there definitively is a problem. There are no plans to discontinue any of the card series yet.
Look out for:
Gigabyte GV-3D1 dual GPU (http://www.ocworkbench.com/2004/gigabyte/gv-3d1/g1.htm)
256MB 1.6ns GDDR3/2x 6600GT GPU/256bit/500MHz:1120MHz
This card supposedly performs better than a X850XT-PE, and will sell at $300-350. If gigabyte get this right (*that memory is just waiting to be overclocked to it's rated speeds :D), it's going to be a beast...
Abit Fatal1ty X700XT (http://www.fatal1ty.com/fat_store/fatal1ty_x700xt_videocard.aspx)
256MB 2.0ns GDDR3/X700XT GPU/128bit/475MHz:1050MHz
Abit has finally gone back to modding with their fatal1ty line, named after supposedly the world's best gamer. This looks to be a hot card, especially if it is priced well.
Sorry about the long post, but I had a lot of info to get in (took me ages).
Comments, remarks, facts, links, corrections etc. welcome.
Happy new year everyone
:) fedz