system does not boot: possible HD failure?

[menno]

Due to the fact that my PC (a 4 year old Athlon 500) from one day to the next did not respond to the on/off switch, I bought a new power supply, as I suspected the old one was broken.

Though the system now responds to the on/off switch again (fans blowing, various lights on), the system does not boot up: there's no initial beep and no screen signal.

Apart from the PS, my configuration is the same. The new PS is 400W, old one was 250W, so the power available should also not be a problem. I've tried minimising the system (removing HD, floppy, CD, CD-R) but this makes no difference.

I've now tested my HD by plugging it as a second drive into a friend's PC, configured as slave. His system then only partly boots up until showing the error: 'operating system not found'. We find this error strange because even if my HD did not work, it should not influence the computer finding the operating system on the primary drive.

Still, it leaves the question: is my HD broken? And if so, could a new HD cure the boot problems on my PC?

I would be grateful for any tips you may have!

[mjkovis]

Welcome to PC-Mech menno!!!! :D

Do you have access to another HD that has an "Operating System" already loaded onto it? Maybe try that in your system to see if your HD has crashed for sure or not. From the way it sounds you probably do have a bad HD, but dont take my opinion on that for sure! :)

AK

[menno]

Not really; we're hesitant about plugging in another HD in my PC because I'm still not sure about what has caused this complete failure of my system. I mean: the motherboard may be broken too, it could have been the first to go and have taken the HD with it. I simply would not want to break another (and especiall: somebody elses) HD...

One question that keeps me wondering about the state of my PC: in case it were functioning properly, shouldn't the error ''operating system not found" appear when there is no HD connected?

[Cricket]

Post your complete system specs by brand and model of every component including the power supply.

Have you tried removing the motherboard from the case and trying for POST?

:) Cricket

[menno]

> Post your complete system specs by brand and model of every component including the power supply.

Here's my specs:

generic 400W PSU / Gigabyte GA-7IX (K7) / Athlon 500MHz / 256MB PC100 SDRAM / Diamond Viper v770 32Mb / SoundBlaster PCI 128 / Maxtor 13GB 7200rpm / Mitsumi 40x CD-ROM / Philips 8x4x32 CD-RW / ASUS WL-138G PCI wireless LAN adapter / TP-link PCI LAN adapter / Trust 56k v92 PCI modem / generic floppy / Win98

> Have you tried removing the motherboard from the case and trying for POST?

I'm not sure what you mean; what is POST?

[mjkovis]

I'm not sure what you mean; what is POST?

This means that upon the computer being turned on it will make a quick beep. You should hear it from your in-case speaker. That will tell you that your motherboard is booting up.

Do you hear this beep at all when booting up your computer?

AK

[menno]

Do you hear this beep at all when booting up your computer?

AK

Nope, upon turning on the computer there's neither a beep nor a screen signal. The PSU and CPU fans do start turning, an LED on the network card lights up continuously and there's the HD LED on the case that comes on for around 30 seconds and then goes out. The CPU also becomes warm. In short: the system seems to power up, but does not boot.

Could this all be due to a broken HD, or the lack of an HD? (I've removed the HD for now, which has had no effect on the way the system reacts to powering up)

[Gizmo]

It's either your PSU or hard drive that is at fault here, or possibly even both. I see in your system specs that you have a generic 400W PSU. I'd replace it with a brand like Antec or Enlight.

Just to explain what Acid meant by POST, it stands for Power-On-Self-Test. The BIOS carries this procedure out to make sure all hardware is working as it should. You should be getting only 1 beep to let you know that all hardware is working properly, once this beep is heard, the system will continue to boot and go into Windows.

the HD LED on the case that comes on for around 30 seconds and then goes out.

Try running some diagnostics on the hard drive and see if it passes the dianostic tests. You also mentioned that you get the "Operating system not found" error. I can think of this happening either because there really is no operating system on it, or the hard drive is malfunctioning in some way. Run the diags and see what happens.

shouldn't the error ''operating system not found" appear when there is no HD connected?

If there is no hard drive connected, the BIOS wouldn't detect the hard drive. I think that it would only say that if there is no operating system on the hard drive.

Also, just to quickly add, have you tried the out-of-the-case troubleshooting technique like Cricket suggested?

[glc]

Out of the case troubleshooting:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=12753

[menno]

Thanks for your help so far guys, your comments are really useful!

Out of the case troubleshooting:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=12753

I'll be doing the out-of-case troubleshooting within a few days, but the way it is conducted has already answered one of my questions: in principle a system without a HD should yield at least a screen signal. Since mine doesn't I obviously have bigger problems than a HD failure. I'll be checking with a borrowed HD whether I can get the system to boot as well, but on the basis on what I've just said I suspect this will not work.

Try running some diagnostics on the hard drive and see if it passes the dianostic tests.

The problem is that a friend's system won't boot when my HD is installed as a slave, and so I can't run any diagnostics on it. Are there any tricks to work around this, or should I assume I will never be able to access the unit again?

I'd replace it with a brand like Antec or Enlight.

I totally agree, but I bought this unit with the aim of checking whether the system could be reanimated at all without spending too much money; still not sure whether that was a bad choice :(

[Gizmo]

in principle a system without a HD should yield at least a screen signal. Since mine doesn't I obviously have bigger problems than a HD failure.

Yes, the out of the case troubleshooting technique will verify that and point you towards the component that is the culprit. You have no video signal, so I'm logically guessing it's something to do with or something related to your video card. The troubleshooting technique will tell you this and point you in the right direction.

The problem is that a friend's system won't boot when my HD is installed as a slave, and so I can't run any diagnostics on it.

Yes you can. You can use your friend's computer to download the diagnostics program and save it to a floppy diskette. The program you put on the floppy will make it bootable so you can have your hard drive plugged into your computer and boot with the floppy diskette. The diagnostics will then automatically run and test the drive.

I totally agree, but I bought this unit with the aim of checking whether the system could be reanimated at all without spending too much money; still not sure whether that was a bad choice

Aaah, you're a money saver. Just like me :D It's usually worth the money though, if you want a nice quality PSU. I'm not entirely sure, but I think glc can give you some affordable prices towards a decent PSU.

[menno]

Out of the case troubleshooting:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=12753

I tried the out-of-the-case troubleshooting technique today; the result is the same as before: spinning CPU fans, no beep, no screen signal. One suggestion that has been made to me is to try fitting a new CMOS battery; if the CMOS battery were empty or broken, could it cause these symptoms?

If not I understand that the next step is to start looking at individual components. I assume my RAM is OK (tried different sticks), my CPU too (it warms up). This leaves the motherboard and the graphics card. Common sense tells me that a broken graphics card should not prohibit a start-up beep, meaning that at least the motherboard is broken, (and possibly also the graphics card). Correct?

With the broken HD, this leaves little of my system. Apart from an empty CMOS battery coinciding with a HD failure, I see no other explanation than that some kind of power surge broke it, and am therefore considering building a new PC, unless anybody has any further suggestions of course..

Thanks again for the support; though the final result is not very satisfying I do believe I've gotten more or less to the bottom of this.

[glc]

No beep at all is a bad cpu or bad motherboard. Bad ram or bad video will give you multiple beeps. I highly doubt the generic PSU is preventing POST when there really isn't a load on it. This is assuming you do have a working speaker hooked to the correct posts on the motherboard when doing the powerup. I have an old case speaker I stripped out of a junk case on my bench for this.