Building my first PC.. Compatability ?'s

[BluesShuffle]

Hi all :)

We just got our taxes back, and I've decided to build a seperate (mostly offline) pc meant solely for gaming and video playback/recording. I've done simple ram upgrades before, and installed a hard drive or two maybe 5 years ago, but all this SATA, PCI, etc stuff is all new to me. I've done quite a bit of reading over the last two weeks, and have a pretty clear idea of what I would like to build, but I was hoping maybe some of the more experienced users here could point out any conflicts that may arise, or suggest cheaper or more effective alternatives. My only real limitations are a $1700 budget, all the parts will be ordered from newegg.com for convenience, and it needs to be HDTV compatible.

So far, this is what I've chosen:
Mobo:
ASUS "A8V Deluxe" VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-510&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 512K, L2 Cache, Socket 939 Windows Compatible 64-bit Processor - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-463&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

GFX:
PNY nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, TV-Out/DVI, 8X AGP, -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-133-116&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

Ram:
Kingston ValueRAM 184-Pin 1GB ECC Registered DDR PC-3200 - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-431&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

HD:
Seagate 200GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, OEM Drive Only

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-033&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

CD/DVD:
Plextor 12X DVD+/-RW Drive, Black, Retail

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-131-329&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

Wireless Keyboard/Mouse:
Logitech Cordless MX Duo USB/ PS/2 104keys -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=23-126-124&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

Cords:
Thermaltake XRound Cable SATA-UV 18-Inch 2-Head

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=12-106-004&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

MONSTER CABLE DVI400 2 Meter Super-High Performance DVI-D Video Cable for HDTV - RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=12-155-074&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

Case:
ASPIRE X-Navigator Black Aluminum ATX Mid-Tower Case with side window and 500W Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-144-090&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

Price with Shipping: $1,718.67


I know pci express is supposed to be optimised a little better than the AGP, but it would take another $100 for a dual pci-express mobo, and i seriously dont think the gfx card will need any kind of upgrading for some few years..
although when it does, I figure I'll just build another new one and keep this for my kids ;)

Thanks for your time :D

[shadowbreaker513]

RAM: You don't need or want Registered ECC RAM. Go for 2 512mb sticks of unbuffered Non-ECC RAM.

PSU: Aspire power supplies are horrible. I would suggest picking up a Thermaltake 480w and replacing the one in the case.

Cable: Monster Cables, while good, are horribly overpriced. A cheaper one should work just as well.

[BluesShuffle]

Thanx for the response, I'll check it out :)

[digitalfreedom64]

Check out the Corsair XMS Series ram, I think it should be good for what you want to do with this system.

[BluesShuffle]

Ok, going with the unbuffered and unregistered ram, I can afford either

4x Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-424&depa=1

or 3x Kingston Value Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-402&depa=1

or 2x Kingston Hyperx Series 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-160&depa=1


Would the 2 gigs of the normal ram be better than the 1 gig of the hyper-x?


edit: just saw the corsair comment, it's about the same situation there.. I could get

3x Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail

or

2x CORSAIR XMS, Xtra-Low Latency 2-2-2-5, 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 w/ Platinum Heat Spreader, Retail

[digitalfreedom64]

Both are good brands. In my opinion go with the 2x512mb CORSAIR XMS. It's highly proclaimed around here so there's gotta be something good about it. I plan to get some myself when i get the money.

[BluesShuffle]

Ok, corsair xms it is then :)

and you think the 1 gig of CORSAIR XMS, Xtra-Low Latency 2-2-2-5 would be better than the 1.5 gigs of Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series ?

[digitalfreedom64]

Either one would be great just which ever you decide. Most people never use more than 1gig. However with what you plan to do with your system, the more ram and hard drive space the better. I'm gonna say if you want to go with the 1.5 gigs. Really shouldn't worry about dual channel with A64 CPUs, won't give a noticable performance boost.

[BluesShuffle]

Excellent, that shaved $100 off the price.. Thank you :)

[digitalfreedom64]

Now lets see for the power supply i'm gonna make the same suggestion shadowbreaker did, would be best to go for a thermaltake 480 or and Enlight . Those are 2 high quality brands and should work well for you. I also noticed that yo have a SATA cable listed there, won't save much but you really do not need that. The mobo comes with 4 of them.
Also as shadowbreaker said , see if you can find something cheeper than that monster cable. Those are a few more suggestions i have. Everything looks great to, looks like you're ready to go. Any more questions just ask.

[BluesShuffle]

Well, how essential would it be to replace the psu? It's a choice between that and another stick of ram..

Also I can't find a dvi-hdtv cable at tigerdirect at all, and the only ones newegg lists are Monster.. any suggestions?

[digitalfreedom64]

Well about the PSU. I had an Aspire PSU, it last almost a month. this was a couple of months ago. Someone on here told me to stay away from em and I decided to be hard headed. Aspie PSUs have a higher failure rate and are not as good quality as the one I suggested. Now abou tthe cable. I really can't say, most of the parts I order come from newegg or tiger direct. I checked the other 2 stores I buy from and they don't have anything llike that.

[BluesShuffle]

Ok.. I suppose I have my heart set on this case so I'll grab a new psu as well and save worrying about it..

Think I'll skip a new chair and grab the ram anyway lol

That makes it
Mobo:
ASUS "A8V Deluxe" VIA K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU -RETAIL

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 512K, L2 Cache, Socket 939 Windows Compatible 64-bit Processor - Retail

GFX:
PNY nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, TV-Out/DVI, 8X AGP, -RETAIL

Ram:
3x CORSAIR XMS, Xtra-Low Latency 2-2-2-5, 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 w/ Platinum Heat Spreader

HD:
Seagate 200GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, OEM Drive Only

CD/DVD:
Plextor 12X DVD+/-RW Drive, Black, Retail

Wireless Keyboard/Mouse:
Logitech Cordless MX Duo USB/ PS/2 104keys -RETAIL

Cord:
Monster DVI400 2 Meter Super-High Performance DVI-D Video Cable for HDTV - RETAIL (Unless I can find a cheaper one)

Case:
ASPIRE X-Navigator Black Aluminum ATX Mid-Tower Case with side window and 500W Power Supply

PSU:
Thermaltake Silent Purepower 480W Purepower Butterfly ATX 2-Fan Power Supply

= $1,881.33 (ouch)

I will be living in Far Cry for the next few months :D

[digitalfreedom64]

Looks like you have an excellent setup there, go for it. I wish I had a system like that. Think i'm gonna wait another year or so though, haven't had the system i've got for long.

[BluesShuffle]

Yeah with the dual core systems just around the corner it's tempting to wait.. but I know there's no way I'll be able to hold on to the cash for it lol if I put it off It'll be next tax time before I have another chance..

Thanx again for the suggestions :)

[digitalfreedom64]

This is true, I've found that if you have the money to build a new system and really need a new one it's best to go ahead with it. If you wait for latest greatest thing you'll never get anywhere. I run a system from 3 to 5 years before getting a new one. Maybe do a few little upgrades across that course of time such as graphics or maybe sound.

[Hi Ho]

Whatever you do don't pay $100 for a DVI cable. It is a big waste of money. THIS (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1087340589368&skuId=6733092&type=product) one will give you just as good quality. I would never buy a MonsterCable product. Especially after reading THIS (http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=122490).

[jimmyrules712]

your probably over-paying for your plextor dvd writer, plextors, altho high in quality, are way overpriced. Get a NEC or Lite-ON with same write speeds, and same quality, for lower price.

and thermaltake doesm ake good PSUs, but they too are overpreiced. Shop other quality brands like Forton source, SParkle, enermax, and enlight

[Hi Ho]

Thermaltakes are rebaged Enlights and aren't overpriced. Lately they've been cheaper than the Enlights.

The Plextor is an excellent drive and while $74 is a really good price for a Plextor it's not dual layer. If you don't want to pay more go for the NEC ND-3520A (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=27-152-038&DEPA=0). If you want top of the line and the absolute best drive on the market get the Plextor PX716SA (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-131-351&depa=0). It's a bit more money but well worth it in my opinion. It's a SATA drive as well. One of few on the market.

[BluesShuffle]

I still plan on doing most of my burning with this older pc, so I went with the NEC.. the nicer plextor is outta stock at the moment anyway..

That brings it to $1,736.82, and I can grab a $50 cable from best buy..

Thanks for the input :D :D :D

[sataraid0]

BlueShuffle, I got a dvi cable from Amazon from here Cables To Go 2m DVI-D M/M Dual Link Digital Video Cable.

Ya might wanna check it out, the price was 13.29 and sounds a lot cheaper than 50 bucks. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000X0VCY/002-1041404-7057650?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

should take you there. Believe this is the cable you are looking for.

Good luck w/ new build, looks awesome........................Sterling :D

[sataraid0]

Oh, yes, I have done business with Amazon and rate them very highly, you would never be disappointed with their service, believe me.

...................................Sterling :)

[BluesShuffle]

Sweet, Thank you for the link :D

Every $ saved is a $ spent on something better lol

[Moose on the Loose]

Looks kind of similar to my build. I'd try to get an even amount of RAM so you can dual channel. The rest of the build looks good :)

I don't know if you're intersted in upgradeability, because you can make a more upgradeable system for pretty much the same amount of money using a PCI-E board.

[digitalfreedom64]

Dual Channel really makes no dif with Athlon64s because of the high bandwidth of the onchip memory controler.

[BluesShuffle]

Yea, I looked into the pci-express, considered it..
the gfx card would be nice to be able to keep and buy a second one later, pop it in and instant upgrade.. but it will be at least 2 years before I seriously think about upgrading, and by that point I figure this gfx card will be getting dated (although not as dated as the 5200 I have now lol) and I'll want something near top of the line again.. and by that time im sure I'll want a new everything else too lol

As far as the ram, I'm going to plug in as much as I can afford.. I could cut some things for a 4th chip, but I'd have to raid my current pc for parts, and as it's my lifeline to people who know what they hell they're doing (a.k.a. you), I'm not taking the chance lol

But I appreciate the suggestions :) I just found out our bank account hasnt been used in so long they suspended our debit card, so I have to use a money order :( the wait is harsh lol

[thefultonhow]

Dual Channel really makes no dif with Athlon64s because of the high bandwidth of the onchip memory controler.

It definitely still makes a difference... the real reason for the high performance of the original Athlon 64 FX-51 vs. the Socket 754 Athlon 64 3400+ was that, despite the fact that they both used the same processor speed (2.2 GHz) and that the FX used slower registered RAM, the FX had a dual-channel interface. If anything, the higher-bandwitch memory controller makes dual-channel more useful than it was on the Athlon XP.

I would recommend just getting 2x of the Corsair XMS or the Kingston HyperX. Either one is good. I think they might use the same chips, but I'm not certain on that.

BTW, are you hooking this up to your TV or using an LCD? If you're hooking it up to your TV, make sure it's 720p and not 1080i. My friend has an MCE Shuttle box running on his HDTV, and he has to run it 480p (720x480 resolution -- way too low to do much) because his TV doesn't support 720p and at 1080i, it flickers too much due to the interlacing (only writing every other line on each pass of the electron gun). If you're using an LCD, they usually come with DVI cables, so you don't need to buy one.

[BluesShuffle]

This is (hopefully) going straight into my hdtv, and although I know it does 1080i, it's been so long since I bought it (2001 or so) that I honestly can't remember what else it supports.

Other than that, all I have is this crap 17in vga that came w/my current Best Buy system (heh).. I could cut a ram chip and get a 17 in. lcd, but if possible i'd much rather plug into my hdtv..

I did try plugging my current (5200 FX I believe) card into it w/an svideo connection, and it was barely readable.. I don't know if that would apply at all..

edit: i went to the samsung website.. they ask for a model #.. my tv says its *type* # is hr34m9

which of course, isnt listed, but then it's not a model # either.. semantics are annyoing :( .. the great search for the manual begins.. in any case, push come to shove, I'll pop down to best buy and try one of their cables.. if it doesnt work I'll return it.. If it does, I'll return it and get a cheaper one somewhere else lol

Thanks for the warning tho.. I had a nervous feeling something like this could pop up..

[thefultonhow]

This is (hopefully) going straight into my hdtv, and although I know it does 1080i, it's been so long since I bought it (2001 or so) that I honestly can't remember what else it supports.

Other than that, all I have is this crap 17in vga that came w/my current Best Buy system (heh).. I could cut a ram chip and get a 17 in. lcd, but if possible i'd much rather plug into my hdtv..

I did try plugging my current (5200 FX I believe) card into it w/an svideo connection, and it was barely readable.. I don't know if that would apply at all..

Here's my advice... Buy this monitor:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-008-019&depa=0

There's a $75 rebate on it which can be downloaded here (make sure to postmark 15 days after purchase):

http://65.119.30.151/UploadFilesForNewegg/rebate/SH/24008019Feb2805rl12.pdf

Price after rebate is $215 -- great for a 17" DVI LCD. Then, downgrade to a 6800 regular and get 1 GB of cheaper RAM. I think that spending the money on a flat panel is worth it, although some on this forum will disagree. I have had my flat panel for six months and will never go back to a CRT. Sure, it's nice to game on the big screen, but in the end usability is much higher if you go with a traditional monitor. Plus, you'll be able to use the DVI cable from this monitor if you ever do want to game on the big screen. (I'm pretty sure that it includes the cable, but not 100%.)

[BluesShuffle]

I've only really seen one lcd screen going, a friend of mine who plays warcraft 3 24/7.. I wasn't particularly impressed with it, but then again he has a generic 5200 or so gfx card too..

If I don't get this ram now, I probably won't be able to get another stick for at least a year.. Would 1 gig still be enough to play the latest games at the highest settings a year from now? My current system has 1 stick of 512mb "whatever comes in e-machines" ram pc2700, and just running windows xp seems to use 100 of that.. I tend to go overboard with high memory using programs, and my current system lags to useless much of the time.. I hate lag.. I hate lag with a bitter passion. I would much rather have a quickly moving blurry screen than a perfectly clear lagging one..

My questions are, would 2 chips in dual mode seriously be that much better than 3, and although I understand that there's no point in buying all the hardware to produce a perfect display without a similar monitor to view it on, would I really need to go with a flatscreen lcd etc.. space is no object.. neither is weight.. graphics tho I can appreciate ;)

[thefultonhow]

I've only really seen one lcd screen going, a friend of mine who plays warcraft 3 24/7.. I wasn't particularly impressed with it, but then again he has a generic 5200 or so gfx card too..

If I don't get this ram now, I probably won't be able to get another stick for at least a year.. Would 1 gig still be enough to play the latest games at the highest settings a year from now? My current system has 1 stick of 512mb "whatever comes in e-machines" ram pc2700, and just running windows xp seems to use 100 of that.. I tend to go overboard with high memory using programs, and my current system lags to useless much of the time.. I hate lag.. I hate lag with a bitter passion.

My questions are, would 2 chips in dual mode seriously be that much better than 3, and although I understand that there's no point in buying all the hardware to produce a perfect display without a similar monitor to view it on, would I really need to go with a flatscreen lcd etc.. space is no object.. neither is weight.. graphics tho I can appreciate..

I personally have found that 1 GB is enough. I've heard that with some MMORPGs, you need 1.5 GB, but I've experienced all of three times when Windows has had to increase my paging file from 256 MB to 512 MB because I ran out of RAM. I think that in most cases if you have 1 GB of RAM, you are either CPU or graphics-card limited performance-wise, and if you're CPU-limited, that can sometimes be fixed by higher memory bandwidth. And that's why dual-channel is important.

If you want to save money and don't really care if you have an LCD or a CRT, you could look for a used or refurbished 19" or 21" Trinitron CRT at a computer show. I got a 20" Dell Trinitron at one three and a half years ago for $169, and it served me well until I got my flat panel. But personally, I love my LCD.

[BluesShuffle]

Thank you for the input :)

I'll look around and see what I can find.. I'm hoping my TV can handle it, but if not I'll definatly need a second monitor..

edit: any suggestions as to brands to look at (particularly for crt)?

[glc]

With what you are doing, I think you will notice quantity over speed on your memory. Fill up the slots with Kingston or Corsair PC3200 value ram - go for 2 gigs. You dont need low latency expensive ram. I do high end NOT overclocked builds with CL3 value ram all the time. The expensive stuff is for the overclockers, the value ram runs just fine at stock timings, and 4 sticks WILL run in dual channel.

[BluesShuffle]

O.k., np there :)

Should I go for a cas latency of 2.5 or 3? There's no difference in price..

edit: seeing as the other low latency was more expensive, I'm guessing the 2.5 lol

[glc]

If you can get 2.5 at the same price as 3, go for it, definitely. Just make sure it's a reputable brand. Lower CL is better. 2.5 at stock timings running in dual channel will perform plenty good, I doubt you would notice the real world difference with more expensive ram unless you overclock or manually tweak the bios - which may impact stability.

[BluesShuffle]

I'd like to learn to overclock, but yea I have too much at stake to play with this one lol. The Corsair value ram, 4 sticks at 2.5 is only $272, dropping the price to $1,632.86.

Thank you for the advice :)

[Moose on the Loose]

If you're interested, you can see here what the difference is between valueram and low timings RAM.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=28&threadid=1475190&enterthread=y

Not really worth it getting hyperx if you're not overclocking.

[bell_kicks]

In answer to your question is dual channel better...
My answer is HELL YEAH!! Dual channel provides a 20% increase in speed and if you have dual channel Kingston High end memory your system will fly! the Asus board won't run 3 sticks of memory, it runs either 1, 2, or 4 but NOT 3! Trust me i have the board! Lol!

[Moose on the Loose]

I think bell is right about 3 sticks of RAM not working in the motherboard. However, Dual Channel offers a very marginal performance increase on AMD64 systems.

[BluesShuffle]

lol so definatly no 3 then.

Also decided to go with this smaller, more portable, and cheaper case to clear up some $ for a new monitor. It has 3 main drive bays, which (i think) would leave room for another 200 gig hd in the future.. and the portability is definately a bigger advantage for me than all the pretty lights of the aspire:

Antec Aluminum Series Super Lan Boy Mini Tower Case

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-145&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

edit: I read the ram link.. won't be doing much with winrar lol so yep looks like cheap and more would be the way for me to go :D

[glc]

That's a nice case, and you won't have to replace the PSU, Antec power supplies are quality units.

[BluesShuffle]

Actually, it doesn't come with one.. the 480w they make (note: I don't know if that power is overkill or not) was around $90.. I was going to get this one for a little cheaper:

Thermaltake Silent Purepower 480W with Black housing - Purepower Butterfly ATX 2-Fan Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-012&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

Would it make a difference? Or do I even need the 480w in the first place?

[BluesShuffle]

The more I look at the case, and the more I think about an LCD screen, the more I like them.. I don't really do much that doesn't involve my pc in some way, and my current system is a pain to lug around.. I'm not interested in a laptop right now, but seeing as I don't travel much, except to go visit friends or family (where space and power outlets are avail.), this would be a perfect psuedo-lappie.. I canceled the wireless keyboard/mouse as well, can always grab one later.. Gonna grab an LCD so I can take it with me, and if it happens to be compatible with my tv, great.. if not, np :)

[glc]

480 is overkill, but that's an excellent power supply for the price.

[BluesShuffle]

A question about LCD screens.. On newegg (at least for the model I plan on grabbing),

Princeton Synergy 714 17" Dual Input Flat Panel Display w/ Stereo Speakers -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=24-008-019&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

Newegg says it needs to have 8 dead pixels to be returnable.. Anyone's opinion as to how durable lcd screens are? I have an old Xbox soft case that should fit one, but I don't want to spend a couple hundred bucks on something that can't be transported easily without damaging it..

[Hi Ho]

It's not that they can be damaged easily rather they can come from the factory with dead pixels. An LCD panel has millions of transistors. It's a slim chance that every single one will work. Bad transistors translate into dead pixels. The dead pixel rate is much lower than it was a year ago. It's very unlikely that you will have more than one or two dead pixels. They aren't noticable either.

[BluesShuffle]

lol I was a night vision/small missile systems tech (mos - 2171) in the Marine Corps, what you describe with the transistors is exactly the same as tweaking a set of NVG's. As long as the lcd is realativly stable when treated with care, I'll have no problem with it..

Thank you for the quick response btw :)

[thefultonhow]

Newegg says it needs to have 8 dead pixels to be returnable.. Anyone's opinion as to how durable lcd screens are? I have an old Xbox soft case that should fit one, but I don't want to spend a couple hundred bucks on something that can't be transported easily without damaging it..

First of all, as has been said, dead pixels are not a huge problem. Secondly, that policy is probably flexible... Newegg is generally pretty good about customer service, and so if you complain to them they'll probably break down and ship you a new monitor. And third, you might want to also check Princeton's policy. I'm not sure about them, but I know that, for example, Samsung has a zero-dead-pixel policy now.

[BluesShuffle]

Will do, thanks :)