ATi pricing off - (as usual)

[fedz]

X850XTPE now retailing for $700, no wonder it's in stock :rolleyes:
For $60 more you could get 2x 6800GT's, and there would be some serious smokeage - 'nuff said

X850XT is nowhere near any competitive price range. Lowest is $535 ROFL (this card is no better than a X800XT-PE by the way)

X800, the new $250 competitor, can't seem to drop below the $350 mark, let alone $360

This is all a bad dream, isn't it?

:) fedz

[spyder003]

ATi who?

We can't all get good deals on X800XT PE's ;)

[TwoRails]

Maybe it's worse... Newegg is selling a PowerColor X850XT for $700:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-131-297&depa=0

Didn't see a PE there....

[fedz]

If you go to Newegg and then their video cards section, you'll see a series of drop-down menus. In the chipset one select X850XTPE, and you'll get one result from Sapphire.

:) fedz

[shadowbreaker513]

X850XT is nowhere near any competitive price range. Lowest is $535 ROFL (this card is no better than a X800XT-PE by the way)

Actually it does perform around 7%-10% better minimum in most things I've seen. The x800, x800xl, and x850 cards I think all use ATi's new core as opposed to the one on the x800se, x800pro, and x800xt cards. It seems to me like ATi has another x800xt pe supply shortage on it's hards, but this time with all of the cards.

[fedz]

I'll show you a couple of benchmarks, which prove my point:
Farcry
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-07.html

Call of Duty
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-05.html

and even Doom3
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-06.html

Could you find a link to a benchmark where the X800XT-PE gets beaten by the X850XT?

:) fedz

[Yuanji]

the X850XT is supposed to be the exact same thing as an X800XT PE when they are at stock. and i knew that they couldn't make the prices what they said they would for the simple fact that it would mean that they had to lower the X800XT PE costs and the X800XT costs everywhere or none of them would get sold. the solution? sell at this outrageous cost until the X800XTs and X800XT PEs start to dwindle

edit- anybody know if the X850XT is a 110nm VPU?

[shadowbreaker513]

The x850 cards and the x800 xl are 110nm as far as I know.

[HAL9000]

Ummm... how long has the 6800GT been out now... the ATI card you listed just came out... of course it's pricey to get all the people that want it now and aren't willing to wait a little bit.

Besides, not everything is about framerates.... I personally don't like the display quality of nVidia and can pick them out just by looking at the screen.

[kram 2.0]

Stop bashing ATi ;) - newer stuff is generally more expensive :). I agree with HAL - if its a few frame rates you're willing to pick up, you may have to pay the big bucks for a SLI build or a Radeon X850 XT. Quality of the picture cannot be measured in anything objective.

kram

[fedz]

Hal - I disagree with that IQ thing. Nvidia vs. ATi in DVD playback is no contest, Nvidia 6--- series wins every time. The FX's were very bad of course, but I've used both the next gen Nvidia and ATi cards and there is very little difference, as Kram said - it's subjective.
ATi's pricing is off the mark, even if the cards are new. They promised that the prices would be at a certain mark, and failed. We'll see if they can bring the prices down in the near future.

Here's a thread I made on the pricing and architectures of new cards:
http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=120932

:) fedz

[TwoRails]

Interesting... I just searched Newegg for Any / all brands of the 6800 Ultra, and the prices ranged from $477 to $725. That's quite a spread in itself.

[HAL9000]

Hal - I disagree with that IQ thing. Nvidia vs. ATi in DVD playback is no contest, Nvidia 6--- series wins every time. The FX's were very bad of course, but I've used both the next gen Nvidia and ATi cards and there is very little difference, as Kram said - it's subjective.
ATi's pricing is off the mark, even if the cards are new. They promised that the prices would be at a certain mark, and failed. We'll see if they can bring the prices down in the near future.

Here's a thread I made on the pricing and architectures of new cards:
http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=120932

:) fedz

Of course it's subjective.... what I see isn't going to be the same as what you see. When I watch an ATI card perform the 3DMark tests or any games, I see a fantastic, clear picture. When I see the same thing run thu any nVidia... I sit back and wonder what the heck do you guys see in these cards. I literally see blocks and choppy performance. I'm not exaggerating, it's what I see and why I say I can walk up to any two machines running the benchmarks or games and tell you which one has the ATI and which one has the nVidia.

I could really care less if nVidia out performs an ATI by 1000000% and cost less... I want what I feel has a better picture quality.. that isn't something you can benchmark.

[fedz]

Take a look at my sig. Nice card, sublime gaming and 3dmark, as you say, but really bad DVD playback (choppy, mistakes, bad IQ etc.)
I've used a far inferior 6600GT for 3dmark (optimised for ATi, remember - some cashflow occcuring there). Choppy, but no complaints about the IQ, and the DVD playback is sublime. 9800pro also ran the same 3dmark test, failed due to driver issues[/there's a surprise]. Ran it fine with Omega, and looked the same as the 6600GT, and just as choppy (although statistically slightly slower).

I'd like to emphasise that I do not in any way promote/endorse Nvidia's inexcusable FX series, which were appalling. I'll take your point if you tell me what cards you were comparing.

check these out as well:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=40&type=expert&pid=3
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/imagequalityshootout/default.asp
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/ati-x800-32.html

:) fedz

edit: you might want to check this out on 'brilinear' filtering
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040603/index.html

edit2:
$464 for a eVGA ultra
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-130-196&depa=1

[Moose on the Loose]

Are you saying the x800XT has bad DVD playback ? I watch a lot of movies on my computer, and I've never had any problem, I don't understand where you're getting this from.

What exactly is the point of this ati bashing ? ATi has supply problems, that's true. I had to wait a long time before I was able to get my hands on my card, but I've never regretted it. I paid my x800 Pro VIVO €350, and overclocked it to a €500 card. I check the site I bought everything from, and here you can buy an x800XT PE (in stock) for €473. The GF 6800ultra costs €514 which is a card that underperforms the x800XT PE in most cases.

The 6xxx series by nVidia are very nice, but I don't see what's wrong with the ATi series. I'm not a "fanboy" for either one of them.

[fedz]

I'm talking comparatively. I've gone through a couple of movies, comparing DVD playback on both ATi and Nvidia next-gen cards, and the Nvidia DVD playback is definitely superior. Not that ATi's is bad, they've just fallen behind somewhat in that department
X800XTPE>6800U, but 6800GT>X800pro, so it's balanced out. I'm trying to give a balanced view as well, and I have used both Nvidia and ATi next-gen cards.

Anyway, I use an ATi card in both my current laptop and desktops, and I am 100% happy with the cards, but not those friggin' drivers - cat 5.1 = buggy + slow :(

By the way - if anyone bashes ATi for their X800XT-PE's availability, just ask them where the Nvidia 6800Ultra Extreme's gone...

:) fedz

[shadowbreaker513]

just ask them where the Nvidia 6800Ultra Extreme's gone...
It was never a real card. Merely a naming scheme made up by one of the third party manufactorers

[Moose on the Loose]

I've never had a problem with ATi drivers either, have had 3 of their cards, and 2 of nVidia's cards. When I need a gfx card I just look at what seems to be the best in my opinion at that time and go for it. I'm going to try the Omega drivers soon for my card, but for now just using the latest Catalyst drivers, plays everything smooth and without a glitch.

[fedz]

Shadow - Nvidia actually released the UE as an elite card, with only a few to be made. When they gave up, BFG and Gainward took this up.

:) fedz

[Yuanji]

I'm talking comparatively. I've gone through a couple of movies, comparing DVD playback on both ATi and Nvidia next-gen cards, and the Nvidia DVD playback is definitely superior. Not that ATi's is bad, they've just fallen behind somewhat in that department
X800XTPE>6800U, but 6800GT>X800pro, so it's balanced out. I'm trying to give a balanced view as well, and I have used both Nvidia and ATi next-gen cards.

Anyway, I use an ATi card in both my current laptop and desktops, and I am 100% happy with the cards, but not those friggin' drivers - cat 5.1 = buggy + slow :(

By the way - if anyone bashes ATi for their X800XT-PE's availability, just ask them where the Nvidia 6800Ultra Extreme's gone...

:) fedz

X800XL is the 6800GT's true counterpart. the X800Pro is more like an in between the 6800NU and the 6800GT. more close to the 6800NU

[fedz]

Not price-wise...
I'm looking forward to seeing a real X800XL. Hopefully I can get someone to buy a system off me which has a X800XL

:) fedz

[Yuanji]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-486&depa=0 it's the same price as a 6800GT now. but, if you think about it, it's on PCI Express and the 6800GT for PCI Express are around 500 ;)

[shadowbreaker513]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-486&depa=0 it's the same price as a 6800GT now. but, if you think about it, it's on PCI Express and the 6800GT for PCI Express are around 500 ;)
I think they're down to $450. Not to mention that an x800 XL straight from ATI is a mere $300