Car Mods

[Floppyman]

Hi all,

I've gotten interested in car tweaking and modding lately and would like to try a couple things on my car to boost performance a little. I drive a 1999 Pontiac GT with around 46000 miles. I was thinking of replacing the spark plugs with some Bosch platinum +4's and also adding a K & N air filter. Do these sound like a good idea, or a waste of my time? I know we've got some car buff's out there so I thought I would ask. Also, can anyone think of any good tweaks/mods on the GM 3800 Series II V6 engine to boost performance. How about external mods on the Grand Prix itself? Are there any good sites out there that talk about this stuff? Thanks in advance.

[thefultonhow]

Hi all,

I've gotten interested in car tweaking and modding lately and would like to try a couple things on my car to boost performance a little. I drive a 1999 Pontiac GT with around 46000 miles. I was thinking of replacing the spark plugs with some Bosch platinum +4's and also adding a K & N air filter. Do these sound like a good idea, or a waste of my time? I know we've got some car buff's out there so I thought I would ask. Also, can anyone think of any good tweaks/mods on the GM 3800 Series II V6 engine to boost performance. How about external mods on the Grand Prix itself? Are there any good sites out there that talk about this stuff? Thanks in advance.

I assume you don't have the supercharger version? If not, I think that would be a great thing to do to up performance. Just make sure you do research on what the supercharger needs in terms of cooling and the like.

[Redfallon]

I agree the Grand Prix GTP is smokin fast. If you added a super charger though you'd have to scrounge around and find one of the boost gauges that the GTP comes with.

K&N Filters are worth it, IMHO, I've got 'em on all my cars and both my bikes and quad ;)

I don't know about the quad platinum plugs. . .I've always just used std platinums, kicked around the idea of trying them though. I'd recommend add one item at a time, that way you can judge how much each thing improved stuff on it's own (and, of course, can report back on the plugs ;) )

**edit**

Grand Prix owners webring (http://n.webring.com/hub?ring=clubgp)
Grand Am owners club forums (http://www.gaownersclub.com/)
I've gotten some information from the GAOC before, knowledgable people there.

[Stryker]

I've got 'em on all my cars and both my bikes and quad ;)
CAN I COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE!?!? :eek: :eek: :eek: :D

[fudtone]

You may want to check out the computer mod chips... they can be a real gain in performance.

Those spark plugs are also good...performance all around with gas mileage increase to boot.

[Floppyman]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. Realistically speaking, how expensive would a supercharger kit be, and how difficult would it be to install? Also, would it still be a good idea at this mileage to do this?

[thefultonhow]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. Realistically speaking, how expensive would a supercharger kit be, and how difficult would it be to install? Also, would it still be a good idea at this mileage to do this?

The supercharger kit would be a pretty hefty sum, something probably on the order of $1000 or more. And depending on whether you need an intercooler/how easy it is to mount one, it might be relatively easy to bolt on a supercharger, or you might have a hard time -- especially if you're not already comfortable with working with cars. It might not be realistic and/or practical to install, but it's definitely a good way to get a lot more performance out of the 3800 engine, as those things are just begging for one.

[doctorgonzo]

I've used the Bosch Platinum+4 plugs in my cars, and they do make the engine run more smoothly, although I can't testify to any performance benefits.

If you get a modded computer, you may throw your emissions out of whack and fail emissions tests if your car has to take them.

[Floppyman]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I was looking at some custom K & N filter kits (most of them looked pretty easy to install), but unfortunately they are not street legal. Oh well, might just have to settle for drop in filter then.

[rjfvillarosa]

Floppy, in the past I owned a sportscar specialist garage and to me there is nothing more rewarding than putting a pile of hard work into an engine and getting it run sweet and perform well. Have a look around the forums and do a seach on performance parts, I have seen a few sites dedicated to that car. In respect to platignum plugs, two years ago when my Pontiac had just done 12,000 miles I fitted platignum plugs and slick50 engine treatment, I can't tell you how much the petrol consumption went down in exact figures But.. a trip to the airport used to take a full tank there and back and afterwards it was down to a little over half a tank, both my wife and myself noticed how smooth the engine was, I whole heartedly recommend platignum plugs.
On a side note while out on my travels the other day I came across a Big Cat sitting on the end of a guys drive with a for sale sign in the window, he wasn't about but a neighbour told me he was looking for about $4500 for it, that is about $10,000 less than what it is worth, at 10 miles to the gallon I guess he can no longer afford to run it and nobody else want's it, lets see, give it a week or two and I think I might snatch his arm off at the elbow for it. :D

For any body that doesn't know, the Big Cat is a 5.1 litre fuel injected V12 Jaguar XJS.

[Turbo91Bird]

A drop in filter won't give u any hp increase. Do the CAI (cold air intake) or don't do it at all. The plugs don't matter until you start using nitrous or high boost levels.

You don't have to find a GTP boost gauge, you can use an aftermarket one from summitracing.com and just mount a 2 pillar guage along the side like I did. I have a boost gauge and a trans temp gauge. I would use the fuel pressure gauge but I have one on the fuel rail so I can check things in there if I need to adjust.

If I was you and you wanted to make it faster (not exactly super fast but faster then it is) then your gonna have to invest in some money. Go fast = $$$

If you have AIM, IM this guy jaypayso2003
He is very smart when it comes to modifying Grand Prix's and has a very quick one himself. He will anwser any questions you have.

here is his website
http://www.gotbooost.com/

[fudtone]

Has anyone made a front wheel drive that is actualy fast? I meen if you put that kind of cash in to a rear wheel drive car its gonna blow ya away... I can see tweeking them a lil but supercharged = waste.

[lil Jimmie]

Go with the cold air intake, K&N filter, chip mod and look and see if there are AC Delco Rapid fire (http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_plugs_rap_main.htm) plugs for your application instead of the bosch. With nearly 50K on the engine I'd hold off on the supercharger, most companies recommend not installing them on a engine with more than 75K which is not far off.

BTW I should have an update/new pics on some of the hotrods I work on in a week or so. I have some now but I'm waiting till the 46' Ford coupe is done to post them.

[Turbo91Bird]

Actually, I wouldn't waste your money on the chip mod. All they do is slightly tweak your air and fuel ratio. Hardly worth the money they cost. I had the hypertech and it was seriously nothing special.

Your not gonna notice any gains from just a chip until you actually get into changing heads, cam, etc. where your going to need tuning. Thats when the custom chip would come in, not a premade chip.

[Tin]

Has anyone made a front wheel drive that is actualy fast? I meen if you put that kind of cash in to a rear wheel drive car its gonna blow ya away... I can see tweeking them a lil but supercharged = waste.
absolutely. ive seen lots of old turbo Dodges and DSMs (Eagle Talon/Mitsubishi Eclipse) haul some ass. as a matter of fact....80s turbo Dodges and DSMs are relatively cheap to get into the 12's...but anything faster than that will cost you some loot. my brother used to have a 1991 Dodge Spirit R/T which ran 13.80 in almost stock trim. the only thing he did to it was a cold-air setup and some exhaust work. a Spirit R/T is a sleeper, granny 4 door sedan thats FWD with a 2.2L Turbo motor. as a matter of fact, it was the first DOHC car built by Chrysler....but the cylinder head was made by Lotus. theyre alot of fun...have a bench seat, 5 speed tranny, and no boost gauge. instant granny :D. in stock trim they ran 14.0 to 14.5 depending on how you drove it. that was a rocket for 1991, not many stock sports cars could touch it...save for the GMC Syclone/Typhoon and some other ones. but general mainstream sports cars like F-Bodies and Fox Bodys had a hard time with that car. also...do some research on the Dodge Omni GLH...or Iacoccas revenge. GLH was a little car, but the GLH stood for "Goes Like Hell" ;). FWD turbo Dodge 4 bangers are cheap fun....you can find many turbo Daytonas, Omnis, Shadows, Spirits, Acclaims, and Chargers for under $1000. there was one guy in my neck of the woods that had a Plymouth Reliant wagon with a stroked 2.2L that was in the 10sec ETs....last i seen it, it was up for sale. i think hes got a website dedictaed to it. then theres also the 11sec Dodge Caravan too :D....but thats a whole different story.

[fudtone]

I agree that 10 seconds is fast...there were near stock cars in the 70's that could approach these speeds....ahh the great v8's...

Anyone hitting 6's in a front wheel drive?

[Tin]

I agree that 10 seconds is fast...there were near stock cars in the 70's that could approach these speeds....ahh the great v8's...

Anyone hitting 6's in a front wheel drive?
its not in the 6s...but its still a 4 banger...but its been converted to RWD :D.
http://www.bassani.com/default.cfm?fuseaction=gallery.details&FrameID=F668318D-3CA7-4146-A877-963154612761

[Turbo91Bird]

its not in the 6s...but its still a 4 banger...but its been converted to RWD :D.
http://www.bassani.com/default.cfm?fuseaction=gallery.details&FrameID=F668318D-3CA7-4146-A877-963154612761
The article in HotRod magazine said he ran a best of 9.18.

EDIT: nm, I found a new best of 7.903 for him. Here is some details.
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/75638/

[thefultonhow]

there was one guy in my neck of the woods that had a Plymouth Reliant wagon with a stroked 2.2L that was in the 10sec ETs....last i seen it, it was up for sale. i think hes got a website dedictaed to it. then theres also the 11sec Dodge Caravan too :D....but thats a whole different story.

Yeah, a while back I saw a bunch of Caravans and K-cars with the turbo 4 that people were getting no higher than 13 seconds just by upping the boost. It dropped to 12 seconds when they did some more serious stuff like putting on larger turbos with larger intercoolers.

[fudtone]

I have no doubts about anything real wheel drive.. its the fundamental wrong engineering of the front wheel drives to go fast... I love a good 4 banger..

[Panama Red]

I agree that 10 seconds is fast...there were near stock cars in the 70's that could approach these speeds....ahh the great v8's...

Anyone hitting 6's in a front wheel drive?

Whoa! How bout I weigh in on this? Muscle cars of the 60's and 70's NEVER got close to 10 second ET's in near stock trim. Low 12's and high 11's were common but it wasn't until the beginning of Pro Stock in NHRA form in 1970 that we saw consistent 10 second ET's - and those cars were far from stock. I campaigned the fastest E/S and F/S Z-28 '69 Camaro in the USA from 1974 thru 1978. National Record was 11.93 @ 114.21 in 1976 when I won class at the Indy US Nationals. I ran a best of 11.85 @ 115.50 at that event and a best of 11.701 @ 115.97 the next year. Times are much faster now but just like computing, technology marches on. ;) :D

[fudtone]

1969 Chevy Yenko Camaro | Last ET: 9.5990 stock

[Tin]

1969 Chevy Yenko Camaro | Last ET: 9.5990 stock
id hate to break the news...they ran mid 11s on bias ply tires, which were the standard for them days. if you put slicks on them theyd probably get you into the mid 10s or so. youre also talking about a very rare car here...only 69 produced...which was made specially for the NHRA drags. http://www.fast-autos.net/chevrolet/69chevroletcamarozl1.html

[lil Jimmie]

Actually, I wouldn't waste your money on the chip mod. All they do is slightly tweak your air and fuel ratio. Hardly worth the money they cost. I had the hypertech and it was seriously nothing special.

Your not gonna notice any gains from just a chip until you actually get into changing heads, cam, etc. where your going to need tuning. Thats when the custom chip would come in, not a premade chip.


The chip mod does a change the shift points as well and with a head/cam upgrade he's prolly gonna see more blow by than he's wanting with that upgrade considering the mileage. The chip/air box and plug change will result in a 10-15% increase in performance on most vehicles.

Here (http://liljimmie.freeservers.com/files/My%20Day/) is some pics of my work and here (http://liljimmie.freeservers.com/files/640X480) is the older files. I will post more with details later on.

[Tin]

you really should have a chip burned or ECM flashed after you have done all the wrenching. why spend all that money twice? chances are the chip wont be as good once you switch configurations. what good is a chip going to do once you get a torque converter with a higher stall? or what about a bigger cam, injectors, or throttlebody? that chip will be money wasted until you do all of the major stuff first.

[Panama Red]

Sorry fudtone, but your info lacks credibiltiy for that time frame. Hemi Cuda's are now running in the 8's (NHRA Super Stock National Record is 8.73 @ 152mph) but in stock form in the 70's, they ran in the high 11's. The Yenko Camaro was never a legal NHRA legal stock class car. Like the Camaro's from Baldwin Motion Performance they were specially prepared 427's that were a long way from the COPO stockers. Like Tin says, they never ran that fast in stock trim.

Think I'm gonna bow out of further debate here. This is Flop's thread and we've hijacked it pretty badly.

[Floppyman]

Go with the cold air intake, K&N filter, chip mod and look and see if there are AC Delco Rapid fire (http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_plugs_rap_main.htm) plugs for your application instead of the bosch. With nearly 50K on the engine I'd hold off on the supercharger, most companies recommend not installing them on a engine with more than 75K which is not far off.

BTW I should have an update/new pics on some of the hotrods I work on in a week or so. I have some now but I'm waiting till the 46' Ford coupe is done to post them.


Thanks guys. Do you know of any good cold air intake kits Jimmie that are street legal? How difficult are these two install? Also, why do you recommend the ACDelco plugs over the Bosch? TIA.

[lil Jimmie]

Well Floppy in my part of the country most work I do is for "off road use only", but that doesn't mean it stays off road so "street legal" is a term I'm not used to. As for the plugs we only use AC Delco or Autolite in all passenger cars, street rods and race cars. Last month a customer and good friend of my boss had his Jeep Grand Cherokee in to have the intake gaskets replaced and while it was in the shop he brought us some Bosch Platinums to install...well once the job was finished the Jeep knocked pretty bad and had a 30 year friendship strained between my boss and customer. After some chatting between me, my boss and the fellow who did the repair we decided to change the plugs to the Rapid fires and the Jeep runs perfect now. Afterwards the customer said he wants my boss to meet him in front of the UFO museum on the 4th of July so he can kiss my bosses arse for having us put the Bosch plugs in his Jeep.

[Floppyman]

Hi Jim,

Those Bosch spark plugs, were they the right model for his jeep? Sorry, I had to ask, Bosch is German and I'm German....well....you get the point.:D

Also, what do you think of a cold air induction system like this:

http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PFYC&Product_Code=WB3011&Product_Count=25&Category_Code=GPUNDER

Would that work (appears to pass all emissions tests)? Don't know how hard it would be to install though.

I guess I should mention that I'm not looking for extreme performance increases. Just minor things that I can do to make the engine run smoother and get a little performance increase. TIA.

[lil Jimmie]

Yup those plugs did cross reference to the application but Jeep is owned by a German company so that doesn't say much. How come you don't have a German made car? :D Most bosch plugs I've run across end up in the scrap bin, but not as fast as those Split Fire plugs. If the autolite and rapid fire plugs hold up to dirt track race conditions @ 8-9K RPM then they are good enough for the street IMHO
The SLP CAI system is prolly your best bet to keep within the emission standards.
As for the install it doesn't look to be to much trouble for me, but I'm used to having bolt on upgrades not working without some modifications.

[rjfvillarosa]

Jimmie you surprise me with your dislike of Bosch plugs, I have fitted Bosch plugs for over twenty years and never had a bad one, same with NGK. I can't say the same for a few other makes mind, maybe the Bosch plugs sold in the UK are made in a different place to those sold in the US.

[lil Jimmie]

rjfvillarosa, It's mostly cost when the double platinum autolite or rapid fire will give the same performance for less $$$

A 99 Grand AM with a 3.4L local AutoZone prices (BTW I don't shop there)
A Bosch BOSCH-PLATINUM+4 costs $5.99 each
A Double Platinum Autolite costs $3.99 each
A AC Delco Rapid Fire cost $4.49 each

For what Floppy wants to do the autolite will perform just as well as the bosch.

[Floppyman]

Thanks guys. I think I will try to see if I can't find the installation instruction for the SLP system. If it looks like something that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing (remember right now I'm still a computer buff, not a car buff), I might scrap the idea or find a friend who would be willing to help me. Will also check into the ACdelco rapid fire plugs.