possibly buying a vid card.

[inflames988]

looking into a video card to buy in the near future, ive just started playing some fun mmorpg's and stuff, but ive found the gfx in these games to be EXTREMELY slow and its hart to play like that (this is bcuz of my 32mb onboard gfx). As you can tell i will be doing some small-scale gaming. I really dont know what GPU's to look for; i like ATi but nvidia is fine too, whatever i can get the best deal on basically. Looking for something nice enough to handle basic games, i have AGP 8x/4x. The one GPU i was looking at was the nvidia 5700le just based on the fact that my friend has one and it works fairly well. dont know much about brands, so mabey suggest that too, or if u have any good deals on newegg thatd be good too i usually buy all my comp stuff from ther

[Yuanji]

i would probably get a 9800Pro or a 6600GT for your system as you are still running an AXP . for nVidia, eVGA and MSI are the brands i'd recommend. ATi, i would recommend sapphire, powercolor, or ATi.

[kram 2.0]

The GeForce FX5700LE isn't a very recommendable grpahics card - it falls short of today's standards in graphics on top of being a crippled card. On the same price scale, the Radeon 9600XT or Radeon 9800 Pro would be recommendable - on the nVidia side, I'd suggest forgetting about the entire FX line.

kram

[inflames988]

ok, like i said i kno nothing about this, thats why im askin :) anywho, i forgot to mention budget...which is going to be the problem. This is guna kill u guys but im thinking >$100 USD

btw the reason its so low budget is not only that i have no money, i also am not planning on playing high end games. i have a crappy CRT monitor anyway. itd be nice to be able to kno i could go to a store n buy a game n play it but id probably never do that anyway. the one mmorpg im playing now is anarchy online, i think it requires like some 64mb gfx card. the real problem, i think, is just the onboard graphics which i need to get way from

btw--when looking at game requirements, they often list a specific GPU u need? whats up with that? ive never understood the GPU naming and rating system, whats better than what, etc. obviously its not just ram.

[tireman]

Newegg has some of the 9600XT's for less than 120.00 and 9600 pros for under 100.00. Might check those out.

tireman

[inflames988]

thx tireman, ill take a look. just saw this http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA=0&description=14-102-289&ATT=Video+Cards&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r
on the top of the pcmech page and clicked it....looks decent to me but once again i have little or no idea what im doing, its also not a 9600 pro as u recommended. donno what "atlantis" is either.

EDIT: what dont i get when i buy oem? no driver cd?

this (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-408&depa=1) looks good to me. the price is still a little steep as i really have no money now, might have to wait till summer :(

[kram 2.0]

thx tireman, ill take a look. just saw this http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA=0&description=14-102-289&ATT=Video+Cards&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r
on the top of the pcmech page and clicked it....looks decent to me but once again i have little or no idea what im doing, its also not a 9600 pro as u recommended. donno what "atlantis" is either.

EDIT: what dont i get when i buy oem? no driver cd?
Looks like a great card - if at all possible, the Radeon 9600 Pro would be a better option at 83 USD, but that depends on what you are willing to spend.

With an OEM card, you get the physical card and maybe the driver CD, depending on manufacturer. I believe Sapphire does distribute the driver with the OEMs, but if it doesn't, it's always free online.

kram

[inflames988]

thx i keep editing my previous posts as to not double post, but yea i added that 9600pro in above....plus i like video cards with fans...i know that shouldnt be the priority lol. thx for the help, ill probly end up getting one of those two if i can save some money.

[tireman]

That Sapphire 9600Pro would be a good choice. The two I ordered last week came with the driver cd's (not that it matters as kram said). They actually performed very well.

tireman

[Marke522]

btw--when looking at game requirements, they often list a specific GPU u needSome games are made with Open GL, (nVidea), and others are made to be used with Direct X (ATI). That's not set in stone, but there can be difference in performance according to what games you want to play. I don't think someone like you would be able to notice though. Actually I don't think I myself would notice.

The 9600 Pro would be a safe card to get with a serious increase in performance over the FX 5700, as said before, stay away from the FX line, it's weak. The only reason I have mine is cause I bought it for $34.00 :D, new!! Yes, I do work at a parts retailer so it might not be fair, but I'm sure you get deals at where you work on whatever you do.

what dont i get when i buy oem?When you buy an OEM part you get only the card. Usually no cd, no book, no cables (if needed), no remote (All In Wonder), and no sometimes no support (Windows). Just us here at PC Mech. But to be honest, I don't think you need any of that stuff. Just download the driver off the web, google for it if you can't find the website.

[inflames988]

Thx guys, oem sounds like a good choice then. tireman also said the sapphires come with the cd and even if they dont, ive got a cable connection n downloading will be no problem. Once i get the cash ill prolly buy that.

EDIT: btw this really helped me alot. i just saw this gfx card comparison (http://image38.webshots.com/38/8/3/66/323280366PwyYss_fs.jpg) in one of the other forums here. i circled the card i was told by my friend was "amazing for gaming/one of the best" and the one u guys told me to get--keep in mind the brands dont match xactly but u can def see that the GPU u recommended is ALOT better. glad i came here since i kno nothing about this stuff...i was lookin at those 5700LEs on newegg thinking they were really good and worth the 100+...so when i do decide to get my card now im gonna be lookin at the 9600's in the 100$ range. might even bump up to a retail one, or the same card with 256mb ram cuz the price difference between them is minimal, and i want the things so i can adapd the DVI to a VGA as well as the thing for s-video and composite to hook it up to my TV... :)

[glc]

Don't waste your money on a 256mb card - spend it on a faster GPU with 128mb.

[Marke522]

Here's a card that could give you twice the performance but it is quite a bit more.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-281&depa=1 $165 Free shipping.

5 Stars after 146 votes.

I have a 9800 pro in the mail, hopefully it will get here soon, ordered it from ATI directly as an employee so it's taking quite a long time.

[inflames988]

out of my price range. GLC, anything sapphire/ati radeon thatd be the same price as that 256 w/ a better gpu? whats the smallest step up from the 9600pro

[glc]

9600XT. They start at 113 bucks - can you afford that?

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-326&depa=0

[inflames988]

nope. thats pushing it. like i said im gonna wait a while, but i dont wanna go overboard for stuff i dont need. ill stick with the 9600 pro, definetely oem but maybe go to the 256 ram. most likely itll be the 128 though. the only way i would get one of the XT's was if the priced dropped between now and summer which is quite possible. btw newegg has alot of refurb cards....in the sapphire 9600 pros especially--there are a few different models of the 9600pros with same ram and what seems to be the same everyhing, i just cant tell if therres a difference. anything wrong with refurb?

[Marke522]

That link for the card above is down to $105. Wait another until the begining of May and I'll bet it will go down to under $100.

[inflames988]

ok we'll see where things are when the time to buy comes... i am also really looking into retail options now, so that i can get the thing to do component (yellow plug) thru the s -video, and get the adapter to use two VGA monitors. these things arent necessary but i do like to experiment with stuff from time to time.

[inflames988]

ive kinda figured out the whole radeon naming system...basically the higher u go in numbers is more powerful, and the XT, SE, PRO, whatever are just different types that are (usually) better then the regular number. my only question was i saw a 9800SE and it had a lower speed like 580mhz as opposed to 600-650 of the 9600XT--is this kinda like how amd processors run at a slower speed but are still as powerful as comparable pentium 4's which have higher speeds? im guessing the 9800 is better? like i said, i'll see where the prices are when im ready to buy

[Marke522]

Don't get the SE. DON'T GET THE SE!!!!

[inflames988]

thanks. i did look at it and something seemed weird. the reviews even didnt say it was that great, and from my experience newegg definetely only puts good reviews up to begin with (they want to sell stuff)...btw would my build and the 9600XT run doomIII? im starting to lean towards the XT. the graphics card will be half fueled by my parents, so that makes the budget a little more flexible. i also wouldnt be surprised as Marke said if the price dropped to the 100's and below...i also saw a patriot stick of 256 ram for 14 bucks after rebate, thought that might be nice to throw in too during the "transformation to a gaming PC", but if 512 is enough thats fine w. me

[Marke522]

512 is a good amount of ram, 1 gig is better for sure. :D
If your budget is more flexible I would seriously consider buying a 9800 PRO. They are quite a bit more, but the performance of the card is what you would want if you are planning on making a gaming PC. Take a look at the difference here on the chart. http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-04.html On the first chart 9800 Pro scored 5966 and the 9600 XT only got 3919.

The 9600 XT will run the games you want, but you will have to turn down a lot of the eye candy. Also, the 9800 Pro will be a card that would be able to keep you happy for many years to come. Why buy something that you will want to replace in a year? That would end up costing twice as much in the big picture. Just wait another few months and count couch change until you can get something that's good, rather than something will tide you over for the time being.

[inflames988]

Yes--for sure that is much better, and yes, for sure the price is much higher. there is one going for 120 at newegg, refurbished but it IS sapphire. ill keep an eye on the price of it.

whats the difference between these two
one (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102268R)
two (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102281R)

[glc]

Use the number as a baseline (such as 9600). The range goes like this from bottom to top:

SE
LE
baseline
Pro
XT

[inflames988]

thats good to kno, i figured the SE and LE ones were as good or better. is the same true for nvidia? like the fx5700le i talked about earlier (dont worry i WONT buy that!)

one more q (tho im sure there will be many more)....
would u take a baseline 9800 over a 9600XT...im guessing theyre pretty much comparable.

i kno im drivin u all crazy w/ all these questions but i like getting my money's worth...i kno without xtra cooling i cant Overclock any of these. but would it be better to buy the cheaper 9600XT and o/c by buying a better fan/whatever...or something of taht sort?

[Marke522]

would u take a baseline 9800 over a 9600XTOn that chart I posted earlier the 9800 scored 5257 so it is still quite a bit better than the 9600 XT. Take another look here. VGA Charts IV: AGP Graphics Cards (http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-04.html)
The chart has scores for all kinds of cards, ATI and nVidia. You can use this to compare prices and scores with each card. Sometimes you'll find that a card that costs more actually performs lower than another card, but it might come with other optins, like S-Video, HDTV, or dual monitor output for example.

[inflames988]

this caught my eye. thought it would be a good card till i read that it comes with NO accessories...so basically i wouldnt even be able to connect a regular monitor to it...(sigh)

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102352R

o well im still in the deciding process...but whatever i buy im planning on ordering doom III with it :)

[inflames988]

sry guys but as i look, the 9800 just isnt gonna happen. im pretty sure im gonna go with a 9600 XT, most likely sapphire brand as you have recommended. few of my concerns are

1. OEM vs Retail. i would like the accessories to hook it up thru s-video, and the one that lets the DVI port be a vga so i can hook up two VGA monitors. This is not really a priority though, as the only reason for the TV connector would be fun and when i do use dual monitors i have old crappy vid cards taht i can plug in and use, if necessary.

2. Whats the difference between the Sapphire 9600XT's--i see alot with (what seem to be) identical specs with price differences, they look EXACTLY alike. i kno the OEM and refurb thing but like some i just cant understand

3. When wil the price be lowest (still a student w. little cash, need to watch the prices and keep an eye on them--but i cant wait forever, id like to get it ASAP)

can one of u guys do me a favor...if u just go on newegg and type sapphire 9600XT, all of my "options" will show up...i like the first two, the first is a cheap one for only 88, the next one is a 256mb ram that i think is faster in terms of clock and ram speeds.... but use the price range of the lowest 9600XT up to say, $105 and tell me which one of those u think is the best. disregard OEM and retail for now. the deals available on those cards seem to outweigh the few low quality accessories that come with the retail boxed ones. thanks!

'nother random question...when i search for doom III, i get TONS of geforce 6200 video cards...whats that all about?

[Yuanji]

I don't know why there is a difference between clock speeds. as far as OEM vs Retail, i would probably get Retail unless you are sure the OEM card will come with the cables. I would go with a 128MB 9600XT OEM personally since 9600XT isn't powerful enough to make use of 256MB anyways. 9800Pro is only barely powerful enough to justify it. 9800XT sort of is.

[inflames988]

I don't know why there is a difference between clock speeds. as far as OEM vs Retail, i would probably get Retail unless you are sure the OEM card will come with the cables. I would go with a 128MB 9600XT OEM personally since 9600XT isn't powerful enough to make use of 256MB anyways. 9800Pro is only barely powerful enough to justify it. 9800XT sort of is.
ya i kinda figured the whole 128mb thing, but i still dont get the diff between some of the 9600Xt's....my friend jsut told me he got some kinda "coupon" for $20 off an ATi card that works on alot of the all in wonders and stuff. im guessing i need a UPC from the game he got it with (half life) and stuff, but maybe ill do that n split the money with him. he got half life free lol--just bought a new comp with an A64 and when he got it they didnt give him a mouse, power cable, etc, and the comp had already been used, and had a families easter pics on it...pathetic...way to go circuit city, anyway this could make a big difference cuz that way i could get a retail card (since obviously ud need the UPC to claim the rebate, and OEM wont give u a UPC) and maybe even a more xpensive one. we'll see.

[Marke522]

when he got it they didnt give him a mouse, power cable, etc, and the comp had already been usedThat simply amazes me, I know things like that happen, but it's still hard for me to belive. There is a girl I work with whose father ordered a CTO (configure to order) from COMPAQ, and when he got it, the harddrives were not plugged in, so it said no OS found, and all kinds of other strange things. Also there was a grapefruit rine inside the box. :confused: Someone should be fired for that one.

He sent it back. It gave him nothing but trouble. Ended up getting a SONY VAIO.

[inflames988]

That simply amazes me, I know things like that happen, but it's still hard for me to belive. There is a girl I work with whose father ordered a CTO (configure to order) from COMPAQ, and when he got it, the harddrives were not plugged in, so it said no OS found, and all kinds of other strange things. Also there was a grapefruit rine inside the box. :confused: Someone should be fired for that one.

He sent it back. It gave him nothing but trouble. Ended up getting a SONY VAIO.
yup. well they reformatted it, fixed it up, and gave him half-life two for free...makes it somewhat worth it. it might have been an open box or shelf model i think.

[inflames988]

looks like (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102338R) we have a price drop on the 9600XT...lookin good :cool: just found out my friend's rebate isnt any good anymore, which is fine with me. im looking OEM or refurb anyway. hopefully by the time im ready to buy (parents say i need a job first) i will be able to snag the gfx card and doom III for under 100 $...thatd be nice. as of now its only 110 so it seems more then possible,

[Marke522]

If you get on OEM card and need an S-Video cable just let me know, I have 3 and don't use any right now. Send me your house address in a PM and I'll mail it to your house if the card doesn't come with one.

[inflames988]

If you get on OEM card and need an S-Video cable just let me know, I have 3 and don't use any right now. Send me your house address in a PM and I'll mail it to your house if the card doesn't come with one.
Thanks. like i said i wont be buyin for a while. im still debating the 9800 as a possiblity, cuz i checked out some more of the benchmarks at tom's hardware like u showed me (incredible--they test on tons of different games and the results really help to show performance)...and at newegg one of the baseline 9800s is down in price a bit too 128 mb Sapphire Radeon 9800 (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102369R) and i cant imagine the price would go up any higher, in fact by the time i buy im sure it wil be within my price range as long as it doesnt go up.

[inflames988]

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102379R

saw this, really like it but stila little pricey...also just wondering why is the core clock so low (lower then the 9600Xt's?)

[Tin]

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102379R

saw this, really like it but stila little pricey...also just wondering why is the core clock so low (lower then the 9600Xt's?)
the 9800 pro doesnt need the clockspeed of a 9600XT because it has 8 pixel pipelines and 256-bit memory. the 9600XT has 4 pixel pipelines ans 128-bit memory. more pixel pipelines means you can run higher resolutions and/or run more antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.

[inflames988]

the 9800 pro doesnt need the clockspeed of a 9600XT because it has 8 pixel pipelines and 256-bit memory. the 9600XT has 4 pixel pipelines ans 128-bit memory. more pixel pipelines means you can run higher resolutions and/or run more antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.

ok, thanks, dont understand exactly what u mean but i catch the drift. basically i thought it was something of the sort because of the whole AMD thing; the slower clock speeds dont always mean much in any processing unit. I do [/I] really [/I] like that card though. i bet it would give me alot more performance then the 9600XTs, even the baseline 9800. Well im going to drop off two applications today at staples and officemax, and pick some up at EBgames and gamestop if possible. do you guys think i could work at a video game store at only 16? (almost 17) the problem with some stores is age limits due to what products they carry (sports stores wouldnt hire me cuz they sell guns), and these stores sell "M" video games? i think id have a shot becuase theres alot of difference between a rifle and a video game

EDIT: the whole job comment was because i cant get the card till i have a job, sry its a little random.

[Tin]

a baseline 9800 with 256-bit memory is about on par with a 9700 pro. as for the difference bewteen a 9600XT and 9800 pro....the 9800 pro takes the ball and runs like hell.

[inflames988]

a baseline 9800 with 256-bit memory is about on par with a 9700 pro. as for the difference bewteen a 9600XT and 9800 pro....the 9800 pro takes the ball and runs like hell.
Ya. i REALLY like that 9800pro, even tho its refurb. they might not give a power supply connector, but i do have a free one in my case so thats not a problem anyway. i can download the software like everybody said. but the price is steep. if i bought doom III with it itd be at least 150 dollars w/ shipping and all...but geez do i like that card--so basically ur saying the 9800 would be a bit better then the 9600XT, and the 9800 woudl beat da crap out of either of them?

[inflames988]

the 9800 pro has its own toolbar button in my firefox. i checked it today and its down, but the parents are still pushing against me buying it and against me getting my drivers license....hopefully the downward trend continues, but right now id rather buy it at 103 and be able to game then just sit here waiting...o well 9800 pro (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102379R)

[inflames988]

Err...i read an article in maximum pc, guy had a ncie gfx card and all and was saying his game was running slow, but he could get like 150fps in other games. this guy had an AXP like me but a 3200+, and 1 gig ram--should i be worried about this? im leaning more towards getting guild wars anyway as opposed to DIII but is this comp really too "budget" for gaming?

[Marke522]

Not at all, you may have to turn off everything else while running the game, but that's not a bad idea anyway. If you have a firewall, stop all internet activity, and close your other applications.

There may be some shawdows and reflections you might have to turn down or off, and you may not be able to run the game in 1280 x 1024, but it will still keep you satisfied. In fact, you might be so happy with the improvement that you won't even notice what you're missing.

[inflames988]

Not at all, you may have to turn off everything else while running the game, but that's not a bad idea anyway. If you have a firewall, stop all internet activity, and close your other applications.

There may be some shawdows and reflections you might have to turn down or off, and you may not be able to run the game in 1280 x 1024, but it will still keep you satisfied. In fact, you might be so happy with the improvement that you won't even notice what you're missing.

Ya i thought so. just got a little scared when a demo of a game alone required 1800MHz processor (this was a maximum CD demo for Chronicles of Riddick game) and right next to it, it says you have 1866 MHz AMD...i talked to yuanji today on xbox live while we smacked down some people in halo 2, not to get off topic he told me that mainly focuses towards p4 processors. I cant play any of these Maximum PC demos anyway, with my current card. it said i need "OpenGL" support to play the demo, others will install but just lock up at the part when u actually launch the game. Anyway i just took the job at staples! I have to do an orientation in a couple weeks, then work on my last weekend of school....then finals on everything from the year (harsh, just harsh)...after that ill have income and nothing better to do then game (except work) and im sure ill be able to order the card. *one more price drop, come on*

[inflames988]

well, i knew it would happen eventually. they only had the card i wanted in refurb which was fine by me, but obviously they had a limited supply. and it's gone now. myparents had no reason not to let me get it (i was even going to pay for it all myself, and i got the job which was what they wanted me to do), and i dont have my own credit card. Guess ill have to pick something else...i really liked that one though.

EDIT: is this card worth the money? i like the nice cooling unit for a possible overclock HIS video card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161109R)

[glc]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102362

[inflames988]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102362
better then the refurb HIS hightech? whats the diff between that and the other sapphire 9800pros? they have a couple cheaper then that thatre refurb, thats oem anyway so its basically the same thing--no accessories.

[glc]

I'll take a new OEM Sapphire over any refurb any day at the same price. Retail is only a couple bucks more too.

[inflames988]

I'll take a new OEM Sapphire over any refurb any day at the same price. Retail is only a couple bucks more too.
k, i didnt know oem was so much better then refurb....ill take a look at the diff sapphires in OEM...just cant believe i missed out on the one i really wanted. i do like the HIS one alot but i guess the sapphire is somewhat simpler and of course from a reliable brand which means much more....ill take a good graphics card that will last over a better one that might not.

EDIT: they have 100556L (retail, 124.00) and the one u showed me GLC, 100556 (OEM, 124.99) are they the same thing?

[glc]

Yep, get the retail at that price - after shipping the price is identical. The retail is marked down for the weekend. Retail comes with all accessories, OEM is a card in a bag with a CD and maybe a DVI to VGA adapter.

The reason I would not take a refurb is you don't know WHY it's a refurb and what it comes with. If there's a considerable price difference, it may be worth a chance, but when the new retail is CHEAPER than a refurb, it just doesn't make sense. If you bought the refurb and you didn't like it, there would be a 15% restocking fee - keep that in mind. Also, retail is warranted by Sapphire and their support is excellent if you ever need it, OEM warranty is questionable on exactly how it would be handled.

[inflames988]

Yep, get the retail at that price - after shipping the price is identical. The retail is marked down for the weekend. Retail comes with all accessories, OEM is a card in a bag with a CD and maybe a DVI to VGA adapter.

The reason I would not take a refurb is you don't know WHY it's a refurb and what it comes with. If there's a considerable price difference, it may be worth a chance, but when the new retail is CHEAPER than a refurb, it just doesn't make sense. If you bought the refurb and you didn't like it, there would be a 15% restocking fee - keep that in mind. Also, retail is warranted by Sapphire and their support is excellent if you ever need it, OEM warranty is questionable on exactly how it would be handled.
thanks glc, ur a wealth of info :) gonna put the order in now. its a little steeper then i had hoped to spend but hey, who can beat the retail deal for the weekend, its 99 cents cheaper then OEM and from what i can tell theyre the same thing. thanks for the help everybody!!