the perfect motherboard (or component)

[DrZaius]

This place is a little dead, so I thought I'd lived things up and see what ideas you guys have. Saw this topic on another forum, but I'll modify it a bit.

What standards would you like to see in future motherboards and other hardware components? I would like to mainly hear motherboards, but any idea is good.

Here is what I would like to see as a standard in motherboards:

First of all, do away with all ports (including parallel, serial, and PS/2) except for USB or Fireware. Having so many different types of ports is very archaic, most components now use USB and for those that don't, and adaptor can fix that.
No more floppy connector. No more floppy drive at all. Almost all OS installs can run off CD now and CDRW's are becoming a standard (sounds like an iMac now :D).
A Pre-BIOS chip that would store a small text menu with options to modify your BIOS. For example, you start your computer and press Fn, and you get something like this:
1. Restore default BIOS.
2. Update BIOS.
3. Backup BIOS.
Or something similar. Basically a flash utility built-in that would be run before the BIOS. So updating it would be as simple as using this menu and a CD and flashing wouldn't be dangerous because you can't mess it up.
No more fans! In our day of digital technology I'm amazed that we still depend on brute force fans to cool a CPU. Passive cooling is what I need.
Nothing should be on-board. It causes to many problems and hinders upgradability in the future.
PCI should be standard for everything but video which would use AGP. No more modem slots or any other space wasters.
No more IRQ junk.

These suggestions aren't taking into consideration problems with operating systems and software and such, this is just a "what if" type thing. Any other ideas or comments on mine? I'd like to see your ideas.

[Computer Hobbyist]

How would you shape your new motherboard? Would it retain the flat rectangular shpe of present mobo's or would your passive cooling requirement require a differnet shape?

[DrZaius]

Hi Computer Hobbyist,

I recall reading an article about a way of cooling CPUs using very small "micro" fans. Since the cooling would be passive there would be no need for big clunky fans, so just a bare CPU. The motherboard should remain the same shape, ATX form.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Do we have big load fans because we need to cool the motherboard or because we need to cool the processor (processors and video chips these days?) Don't modern processors require a lot of cooling because they throw off a lot of heat? In fact the faster and more powerful they get the more heat they throw off. I actually read a physics paper on the subject once. As I remember as late as the Pentium 60 you could get by without a cpu fan. As processors became more powerful loss of the fan quickly became more noticeable. Even now heat is the reason that laptops generally have less powerful processors than desktops. Today if your T-bird fan fails your probably going to lose the processor within minutes, if not seconds. Somebody (I should know but can't remember-Apple maybe) has built a computer in the shape of a cube with heat carefully vented to the center and up like a chimney. Such a design seems great for heat transfer, but I think at the cost of upgradability. Of course, laptops are wonderful for a lot of reasons including quiet dissipation of heat, but they have limited upgradability. Perhaps a breakthrough in materials technology will lead to cooler processing, but absent that I don't think we will do away with fans in any computer either of us would like to own anytime soon.

As to your other comments, I think they are all doable now and most make great sense. I especially like the idea of doing a way with multiple kinds of connectors. Why do we need serial, PS/2 and parallel ports, anyway? All are left overs from technology long gone. Thanks for starting this thread. I hope others will join in.

[Computer Hobbyist]

I forgot to ask. Where do I find out about the "micro fan." How would they work and how would they move as much heat as a modern processor throws off? Thanks again.

[DrZaius]

Computer Hobbyist,

You are correct, Apple did make the Power Mac G4 Cube so that it has no fans. Many people like it simply for the reason, because you can do your work without the constant buzzing of the CPU fan. I recently saw mention of IBM working on "optical" CPUs that are much faster than current CPUs and perhaps those CPUs won't even require any cooling at all. But you're right, for now we do still need cooling but I'm sure we can come up with something better than a fan.

[DrZaius]

Computer Hobbyist,

Here is the article regarding the miniature fans (although server seems to be down now):
http://www.newscientist.com/dailynews/news.jsp?id=ns9999330

And another one about using nanotubes which act as super-heatsinks:
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/up-iac083000.html

Both good reads on possible ways to cool CPUs. Using nanotubes they say it's possible to go up to 100GHz.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Talk about pulling things out of the air, imagine my delight and surprise this morning when I discovered: "NEW YORK (Reuters) - International Business Machines Corp. . . . said on Friday it made a breakthrough in semiconductor technology that can boost chip speeds by as much as 35 percent, while also reducing power requirements." The breakthrough involves a process for stretching ("straining") silicon atoms to enhance conductivity. That's the kind of materials technology breakthrough that might reduce the need for heavy cpu cooling fans.

I haven't had a chance to look at the two posted sites but will at the first opportunity. I find both interesting.

[Computer Hobbyist]

This place is dead isn't it? Maybe no one want's to think during the Summer.

[Toaster]

So long as you stay with Micky$oft software, you WILL have to juggle IRQ`s.
This isn`t a system board thing, its a Micky$oft thing.
When Intel or other CPU makers make a "true" 64bit CPU, you might see a relaxed IRQ usage.
My ideas:
1. Leave the ports but make HARDWARE selectable so any port can be physically disabled and thus invisable to ANY O/S.
2. Mount CPU`s and other high heat components on the reverse of the system board where they can utilize the systems case as a cooling solution.
(these actually exist!)
3. Shoot the bozo who invented the AC95 sound chip, bury this peice of ka-ka once and for all!
4. Make the system board "modular". This would allow users to add the add-on componets of thier choice.
5. Slap the wannabee kid who thinks PC100/PC-Chips system boards are okay. Boycott these vendors. These are junk, plain and simple.
6. Shoot the AMR modem slot inventor or make him PROVE it actually works. (my guess he`ll wish to die instead!)
7. Have all of humanity march on Micky$oft with penguins in hand!
(screaming..NO PRISONERS!)
8. Dispence UNIX/LINUX like AOL diskettes, everywhere you turn a disk!
9. Make a virus that only allows mouse usage after 20 hours of command line computing.
10. Have all humanity march on AOL with modems in hand.
11. Ask AOL to move out of the US (off the planet is better yet!)
12. Everyone buys a penguin and sends it to Billy Gates care of apple computer!
(you know what paybacks are dont you Billy boy?)
13. Drag Micky$oft kicking and screaming into court saying all charges are dropped if their O/S doesn`t crash for 7 days. (impossible!)
14. Ask Micky$oft to support thier products free for 30 days via telephone support. (lets make them earn these riches by making a stable virus free O/S)
Not in this lifetime huh?

[HAL9000]

Originally posted by Toaster
6. Shoot the AMR modem slot inventor or make him PROVE it actually works. (my guess he`ll wish to die instead!)


Believe it or not Toasty, with 2 of our ISP's where I live, the AMR's work and actually (GASP) work quite well! But, as a side note, take that AMR equiped computer that works fine with one of the 2 ISP's, drive it 10 miles out of town, and, well, CHOKE!

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

toaster,

honestly, it's always been my experience that MS operating systems are only as stable the person who uses them.

that goes for all of the modern operating systems, but more so in Windows, cause MS gives over too much of the OS(and hardware in 9X's case) to users and applications by default.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Toaster's angry, but he makes some good points, especially about AOL and AMR, and some that are a little inflammatory.) I guess the purpose of this think tank thread is to discuss our wants and opportunities. As a business owner who runs a bunch of P.C.'s I can tell you that I want stability, stability and stability, in that order. I want to know that when the machine is turned I won't hear the dreaded "Ron, my computer just froze." I want a platform that will run the time and billing, specialized research, database, word processor and browser software packages that have become essential to my business. I want the machines to work. I want them to work all the time and every time. I don't want employees deciding they can improve things if the play with this button or that. As dad and administrator of the home network, as the crash of my proxy server last weekend proved, my desires are increasingly the same as my desires at work. I don't want my wife or daughter asking me when they can go back on line over and over again. I want stability and reliability. As Computer Hobbyist I want upgradeablity and flexibility. Since I am on my own time, and I like puzzles, I don't care if I screw something up and have to start over from scratch. As business owner or dad I would never over clock a computer. As Computer Hobbyist I relish the prospect. I believe my wants as business owner and dad are inconsistent with my wants as Computer Hobbyist.

What are your wants? Is there any way to reconcile the wants of the hard headed business man with the wants of somebody who just wants to push his personal envelope?

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

I guess I want solid-state hard drives to hurry up and become the standard. the price per MB is ridiculous, right now. I want the something along the lines of the same speed embedded systems have. nearly instant boot speeds would please me immensely, too...sometimes it seems like I've spent half my life waiting for systems to boot.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Wickedlittleslaveboy

I agree that HD speed is a choke point in computer performance, but as a guy who several times spent big bucks for a 10 or 20 GB HD, I have to ask is the HD cost ridiculously high or ridiculously low?

Boot speed is not an issue if you don't turn your computer off. Maybe if the machines didn't crash so often.:)

Of course, I don't subscribe to the notion that Microsoft is to blame for every computer crash. Most of them are the result of pilot error. I do subscribe to the notion that most of the crashes that happen to me are the result of poor software design. Doesn't everybody?

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

solid state disks are going for somewhere aroung $30/MB...I wouldn't call that cheap. the only really cheap disks are IDE.

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

err... I should say that it can be $30/MB, but the disks running more towards 1G, or at least 100MB equal out to about $1-$5/MB.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Does that mean that a gigabyte drive costs between $1,000 and $5,000? That's a lot of money to statisfy somebody's need for speed. Especially, in the age of bloated code. Where can I read about solid state drives? Ron

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

no, there are other uses for them. impact and excessive movement would shred a mechanical disk....and there are areas where that kind of speed is necessary. we're talking about a signifigant speed increase, set those babies up as a stripe set w/o parity and you might as well be writing to RAM...when it becomes the norm, we won't be waiting on churning disks anymore.

I worked for an embedded manufacturer when I first moved into this field, you can use RAM and ROM chips for working with OS's and data, but if the power goes off, the RAM chip loses everything in it's memory and ROM chips aren't easy to write to. a lot of the environments were harsh, as well...

here's an intro:

http://www.tweak3d.net/articles/solidstate/

well, after bothering to read it, it's mainly just dealing with one technology, but it gets the main point acrossed. I'll look for something that better covers non mechanical storage.

[Toaster]

Am I angry? Well, no. Actually, I`m disgusted with the way some folks do business knowing support would be paid for.
As for the remark "stable as its user" I have to disagree.
I recently aquired a DSL modem. For the first few days I used Micky$oft Winderz on a throwback Pee-Cee. In the X86 world (Intel/AMD etc), each of the software makers "build in" incompatabilities. Take the Netscape/Internet Explorer battle ground. The Pee-Cee under Micky$oft O/S`s is unsecure at best and generally bug prone. For those few days were the last time in well over 6 months that I strayed from Unix/Linux/Irix (the unix world).
So, i`m bitter more then angry that the lack of standards, compatability, and downright "back-stabbing" companies do to make the big buck.
Micky$oft simply annoys me.
Soon, I will be completely rid of Micky$oft anything and the sooner the better.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Toaster, you do sound bitter. I suggest you look at "www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/gateswhine.html"
It is apparently posted as an example of Bill Gates whining about not being paid by many people in the Home built computer community back in 1976. It is that and more. It points out the inherent split between those who see computers as wonderful technological devices to be admired and shared, and those who see them as tools for making a buck. Bill Gates and the buck making boys won. Are we to be surprised. I think not. Our country is founded on the idea that greed is good and everything legal should be done to maximize profit. Backstabbing, lack of standards, and incompatibility are not illegal, and some people can fashion game strategies in which all three traits are perceived as advantageous to the ultimate goal of making profits. Of course, I happen to believe that fair play, standards and eliminating incompatibly make for a better bottom line. I think you would agree with my belief. But I am not the richest person on earth, nor am I aspiring to corner the information market, so I might be wrong.

What ultimately you will find is that the *nix world is not free of those for whom backstabbing, a lack of standards and promoting incompatibilities are perceived as a way to enhance profit. It will be even less true as the *nix world leaves the intellectual and educational world for the market place.

We are getting far afield from the subject of what we want to see in a computer. I personally vote for better documentation.

[DrZaius]

Must every thread turn into a "Linux hates Bill Gates!" fight? :D

In relation to both topics, I totally agree with the need for standards. Not just for software but for everything. It's lack of standards that causes many problems not only with hardware and software but on the internet too (like Microshafts new plan to change HTML). One example of something I would really like to see is a standard installation procedure for all programs. Almost every program has it's own way of installing files, creating directories and shortcuts and it's almost impossible to keep track of what files were installed and where. I would like to see a built-in setup process (into Windows or any OS) that would allow you to control the setup of any program (it would ask you if you would like icons installed, files deleted/moved, etc.) Not only would this make installation easier but un-installation (sometimes they think that we would never want to remove their program, yeah right!) would be easy and no "junk" would be left over. Win2K has this to some extend and I've heard that it is like this in Macs, but I don't use them so I don't know.

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

DrZaius,

I agree with you totally. anti-MS flames are played out...it's time to move on.

[Computer Hobbyist]

I agree I have read and written all I care to about Microsoft.

I have reviewed this thread and discovered that most of us want fixes for nagging problems--we want heat reduced, sound made manageable, greater stability, fewer crashes, faster hard drives, easier and more powerful installs, better documentation, easier and more complete uninstalls. In a companion thread one of the readers wants upgradable video cards. (An interesting idea.)

Lets talk about the advance of the personal computer. Frankly, the 166 AMD with MMX sitting on my office desk connected to the web via DSL handles all of the office and web applications I use with ease.

I ask the following questions at a time when PC sales are tanking and PC prices are in free fall.

Are there compelling opportunities for near term technological advance? If so what are they? Are there compelling needs that aren't being met by current technology? What are we going to do with the ever more powerful beasts that seem to be coming on line with greater and greater frequency?


Maybe we should start a new thread?

[Colonel Sanders]

Gee, I wonder if anyone will read this?

I want to see fast booting OS, and not that cheapo Apple design where they show the OS but it actually takes about 10min to boot.... No more "Apple computers are so fast..." because I think they are slow. Their cases are also very ugly, and most software is designed for Windows.

Logan

[Werewolfdaddy]

My lists of wants:
1: an operating system that truly uses dual processors, software that uses it too.
2: a video card with mutliple memory slots and capacity to upgrade memory(imagine a video card with 512 mb of memory or a gig)
3:Nothing on board on the motherboard
4:USB and firewire only, maybe ethernet
5: a computer that can actually handle unreal tournament.
6: a help section that is actually a help
7: Unreal Tournament 2
8: 72" monitor
9: lower prices
10: virtual reality(jack me in with a cranial port)
11: for the good people at PCMech to get paid for keeping this site the best on the net.:D :D

[Carl Price]

What I would like to see does not involve motherboards, sorry. It is a <B>REAL</B> interactive step by step boot mode. One that loads one device at a time and allows to you say yes or no to each one. That way you would know what is causing trouble. The step by step mode now you can say yes or no but you are presented all the drivers in a bunch and it doesn't start to load until after you have chosen what to load and you still have to guess at what is causing trouble.

This might cut my throat tho. I make a living because the average person can't figure out what is causing him/her problems.

[jessho]

Personaly, the advancement of hardware seems beyond human capabilities. The software is a different story. With reverse engineering demanded to allow people to use older software, the processing power is limited to the software. It's a neccessary evil, but without this, the hardware would not have a market.

Also, people want bells and whistles. The graphics rich environment demanded by most users dictates code that hogs the resources of a machine. I know.....the people on this forum want more control of their machine. Unfortunately, the people on this forum are the minority and the major software companies are not pursuing this market.