Do you know what manners are?

[el_novato]

I was driving home from school tonight when I heard the most ridiculous commercial to date on the radio. It was for a video (aimed at parents) that would teach children manners. The lady said they would learn manners that would never be forgotten. I'm thinking, "yea right". When exactly did parents stop teaching their children? And we wonder why kids nowadays are so troubled? It seems we humans think that the backseat entertainment in the car and the tube along with the VCR or DVD player are all that's needed. Of course, I'm not saying that every parent is like that, but they are few and far between. What gets me is that when something goes wrong, we look in every other direction except for where we really need to look, the way the kids are raised and what they are taught, in other words, the parents themselves.

e.n. :)

In case some of you wonder why I don't include myself, well, I don't have any kids. Yet. ;)

[Cricket]

Our society is on the decline.

:) Cricket

[DonVito]

societies whole problem these days isnt violence in video games or cursing. Its simply bad parenting! who cares if theres a south park or gta. If your a good parent you just simply say no and dont let your kids have that stuff. thats a great example el navato. People expect other people or the government to raise thier kids and keep them from bad things. Then when there kids misbehave or do something bad its never the kids fault acording to the parent. Then theres the parent who over shelters. And once there kids get into the real world and face decisions they don't know what to do!!!

(my sisters a teacher and is always telling me how she sees this everyday)


EDIT: you just say no and dont let them have that stuff

[Force Flow]

Our society is on the decline.

And that is sad.

Many parents these days just don't know what to do with kids or how to raise them in a reasonable manner.

[DonVito]

And that is sad.

Many parents these days just don't know what to do with kids or how to raise them in a reasonable manner.


of course, im sure thats exactly what our parents were thinking ten years ago :rolleyes:

[mountainking]

societies whole problem these days isnt violence in video games or cursing. Its simply bad parenting! who cares if theres a south park or gta. If your a good parent you just simply say no and dont let your kids have that stuff. thats a great example el navato. People expect other people or the government to raise thier kids and keep them from bad things. Then when there kids misbehave or do something bad its never the kids fault acording to the parent. Then theres the parent who over shelters. And once there kids get into the real world and face decisions they don't know what to do!!!

(my sisters a teacher and is always telling me how she sees this everyday)


EDIT: you just say no and dont let them have that stuff

Thats how i was raised... i was WAY over sheltered. My parents were pretty much idiots when i was growing up. They were 2 couch potatos that sat in front of the tv ALL DAY LONG. I wasn't allowed to do anything. No tv, no games, no friends, no junkfood, no nothing. I lived my life sleeping and doing homework. I convinced them to let me do marching band but no sports. I had to purchase my own instument with lawn mowing money. It was the most pathetic thing you've ever seen. When I turned 18 I moved out of the house immidiately and went in a duplex that i shared with 2 other roomates. I was still in high school at the time. I had absolutly no idea what to do about anything. I STILL have troubles making decisions. It really was an ackward thing. My wife on the other hand had really successful parents that seemed like the type that would be really enforceful.. but nope... her parents didnt give a crap what she did. If at age 12 she was out till 5 am partying... "who cares?" was the attitude of the parents. She ended up way better than i am right now. She started making her own decisions so early that shes mastered them.. and she now does all our bills... and pretty much runs the entire household. I have no idea how to do all that crap. Ive heard of the "sink or swim" meathod and it seems to work for kids who dont have motivation in school. If you just give up on them they will make their own decisions for once and eventually decide to work hard. Kids DONT listen. Thats just human nature. You tell them one thing... they do the opposite. I truely believe that parents who overly worry about their kids grades usually have kids that do terrible in school. Thats just my belief.

[DonVito]

I must say i admire you for growing up and making a good life for you and your wife :)

(by the way nice rig) :D

[Cricket]

How's this for parenting...

A few years ago I was at a neighborhood park with my 5 nephews and 1 niece...it was a nice day and there were many other children there, some with parents, some without. I noticed a young father and daughter heading towards the park...the father was barely in his 20's and his daughter looked to be about 4, maybe 5 years old. The father's arms were covered with tatoos and they looked like jail house tats. When they reached the playground I heard this father tell his very young daughter..."okay, go play...but if any body gives you grief, punch 'em in the face..." and he walked away to hang out with a few guys who were hanging out in the parking lot. I couldn't believe what I just heard...and this little girl didn't seem to have any idea of how to play with other children. She approached some other young girls who were on the swings and started to bully them around. The parents of those girls came and took the girls away, so now this little girl started to look for other "targets" and saw 2 of my younger nephews who were playing on the jungle gym. She came by and within a few minutes was almost ready to fight with one of my nephews because she wanted to be where he was climbing. I grabbed my 2 nephews, looked for the other 3 nephews and 1 niece and we all went back to my brother-in-law's house.

I felt really sorry for that little girl and thought she would probably end up in jail when she got older because she was already so anti-social...and all because she had such a crummy father and probably a mother who wasn't much better. Sad.

:) Cricket

[DonVito]

Another thing i don't dont understand in homeshooling and skipping kids through multiple grades. theres so much more to school than reading and writing. IMO one of the bigest parts of school is learning how to make friends, be with kids your age,learning how to follow rules, and learn to communicate. if your a genius from homeschool or your super smart and in college when your 15, all that intelligence and ideas is useless if you can't make friends, follow rules or carry a good conversation. Like that girl in crickets story.

[mountainking]

How's this for parenting...

A few years ago I was at a neighborhood park with my 5 nephews and 1 niece...it was a nice day and there were many other children there, some with parents, some without. I noticed a young father and daughter heading towards the park...the father was barely in his 20's and his daughter looked to be about 4, maybe 5 years old. The father's arms were covered with tatoos and they looked like jail house tats. When they reached the playground I heard this father tell his very young daughter..."okay, go play...but if any body gives you grief, punch 'em in the face..." and he walked away to hang out with a few guys who were hanging out in the parking lot. I couldn't believe what I just heard...and this little girl didn't seem to have any idea of how to play with other children. She approached some other young girls who were on the swings and started to bully them around. The parents of those girls came and took the girls away, so now this little girl started to look for other "targets" and saw 2 of my younger nephews who were playing on the jungle gym. She came by and within a few minutes was almost ready to fight with one of my nephews because she wanted to be where he was climbing. I grabbed my 2 nephews, looked for the other 3 nephews and 1 niece and we all went back to my brother-in-law's house.

I felt really sorry for that little girl and thought she would probably end up in jail when she got older because she was already so anti-social...and all because she had such a crummy father and probably a mother who wasn't much better. Sad.

:) Cricket
Like i said.. being a good parent IS NOT disciplining. Its beeing a good role model. Your children 90% of the time are going to end up just like you. If you just act the way you want them to be... thats what they will be. If your just doing absolutly nothing and being a couch potato and telling your childrem what they cant do.. thats not going to teach them... At first I started out just like my dad... but my wife and i went to counsiling and im WAY better now. I do visit my parents quite a bit now though. I just dont think they really were ready to have kids. Im the youngest too... ive got 2 older brothers... one is serving over in iraq... and the other one is in prison. I dont visit them too often and I honestly dont care a whole lot if my brother does come back from iraq. Being that he attempted to kill me at age 23 i dont have a whole lot of sympathy for him anymore. Im just very thankful to have ended up nothing like any of them.

[el_novato]

Monkey see, monkey do. I partially agree with what your saying MountainKing, but I would have to say that discipline and setting an example go hand in hand. Discipline isn't just applied, it is shown as well. As for your situation, it's sad to see such animosity between brothers, but like you said, you will end up nothing like them and a much better person.

e.n. :)

[mountainking]

Yes.. you need to enforce some rules. But if your the exact opposite of what your trying to turn them into... its not gona work either. How are they supposed to listen to you when your saying "dont do that" when your doing it yourself. For instance... If your parents are having a party drinking lots of beer and getting drunk... and then they tell you not to get drunk and do drugs, will that prevent you from doing drugs? hell no.

[bigandy]

Like i said.. being a good parent IS NOT disciplining. Its beeing a good role model. Your children 90% of the time are going to end up just like you.

Maybe I'm in that 10%, but I don't necessarily agree. I think a lot of times, kids see the mistakes their parents have made and make a promise to themselves to not end up doing the same things. I know that growing up with my parents divorced and constantly bickering, I've really learned a lot about how not to act. Maybe it's because I see it from this angle and I notice how uncomfortable it makes everyone (myself and two siblings, as well as anyone else who might be present). I know that from my mom being a smoker, I've made a promise to myself to never smoke anything (tobacco, marijuana, whatever). I'll admit that I'm a "typical" 18 year old kid in that I drink sometimes, but I don't go out every weekend and get completely trashed.

I've learned stuff from other people's parents too, both good and bad. I think the most important thing I've learned is that you have to trust you child(ren). If they make a mistake, then you act accordingly, if they make good decisions you act accordingly. In the last half a year, I've really learned a lot about the whole trust issue with parents and their children (not from me and my parents, but from somebody who I care a lot about and her father), and I've seen how bad things can get if a parent doesn't allow themselves to trust their kid.

[Cricket]

I think the most important thing I've learned is that you have to trust you child(ren). If they make a mistake, then you act accordingly, if they make good decisions you act accordingly. In the last half a year, I've really learned a lot about the whole trust issue with parents and their children (not from me and my parents, but from somebody who I care a lot about and her father), and I've seen how bad things can get if a parent doesn't allow themselves to trust their kid.That's very true...trust is so important in any relationship. You see it in good relationships and you don't see it in bad relationships. Some people just can't trust others...I think it's because they don't trust themselves in the first place.

The world would be a much nicer place without people and all their hang-ups.

:) Cricket

[kstatefan40]

Another thing i don't dont understand in homeshooling and skipping kids through multiple grades. theres so much more to school than reading and writing. IMO one of the bigest parts of school is learning how to make friends, be with kids your age,learning how to follow rules, and learn to communicate. if your a genius from homeschool or your super smart and in college when your 15, all that intelligence and ideas is useless if you can't make friends, follow rules or carry a good conversation. Like that girl in crickets story.

I agree 100%. School isn't about the homework, its about learning leadership, friendship, and how to learn with others, even if you don't like them. I wouldn't let myself be homeschooled, just because I feel it shelters me too much. I want to be around all the crap in high school - the drugs, the sex, the beer - just so say that I was strong enough to make the right decision and avoid it. Let the others ruin their lives, I'll savor mine, thanks. Its part of life, if you don't learn it at school, you won't know how to handle it in other times of life. I know this is going to get negative feedback, but its absolutely true from my perspective.

Mannors are taught, they aren't learned. You have to be brought up with them, because its something you can't learn easily. Parents need to look on how they did it in the older days - with close families, and semi-strict parenting.

[DonVito]

I agree 100%. School isn't about the homework, its about learning leadership, friendship, and how to learn with others, even if you don't like them. I wouldn't let myself be homeschooled, just because I feel it shelters me too much. I want to be around all the crap in high school - the drugs, the sex, the beer - just so say that I was strong enough to make the right decision and avoid it. Let the others ruin their lives, I'll savor mine, thanks. Its part of life, if you don't learn it at school, you won't know how to handle it in other times of life. I know this is going to get negative feedback, but its absolutely true from my perspective.

I wouldn't give that negative back thats exactly what i was talking about. Drugs, Sex, Bullies, mean bosses, dissapointment. Thats whats in the real world. you might as well learn it in high school cause your just gonna learn it once your out. As you said learning with people you don't like. Everywhere in life theres gonna be people you hate, coworkers, bosses, and you just have to deal with them.




p.s. i cant believe this is a thread on a pc help forum. feels like Dr. Phil :rolleyes:

[el_novato]

...I think a lot of times, kids see the mistakes their parents have made and make a promise to themselves to not end up doing the same things. I know that growing up with my parents divorced and constantly bickering, I've really learned a lot about how not to act. Maybe it's because I see it from this angle...

This is true...however, many in the same situation end up exactly like there parents or even worse. The angle of perception that you have is a level of maturity that many don't have at that age and some will never have.

Mountainking, I completely agree with your previous post. Hence the reason I say that discipline and setting an example compliment each other.

A few months back, I saw a news article (I can't remember where) about students that did not say Please, Thank You, Sir, Ma'am etc in any instance. The students were asked why they didn't use their manners. Their answer? Their parents said they didn't need to. Sadly, they were all elementary kids.

e.n. :)

[mountainking]

I think theres too many parents out there that arent ready to have kids that have them. Thats why we live in such a screwed up world lol. Parents should learn HOW to be a parent before they decide to have kids.

[patrickt]

I read once that manners are the oil that keep the wheels of society turning smoothly. I tried to find the exact quote on-line but most sites for quotes did not even have a topic for manners or courtesy. I'm retired now but the last few years I was working we needed to teach basic manners to the people who were being hired.

[Cricket]

I'm retired now but the last few years I was working we needed to teach basic manners to the people who were being hired.It's really sad when people don't even know what common courtesy is. I mean having to teach basic manners to new employees, that's just pathetic.

:) Cricket

[Markoman01027]

I agree 100%. School isn't about the homework, its about learning leadership, friendship, and how to learn with others, even if you don't like them.


That might be true in high school, but I don't think it's like that in college. Doing your homework and keeping up with your grades gets you that degree and that job, not your friends.

[Tin]

Maybe I'm in that 10%, but I don't necessarily agree. I think a lot of times, kids see the mistakes their parents have made and make a promise to themselves to not end up doing the same things.
i feel that way as well. my dad was an alcoholic and spouse abuser....not to mention hes been running from the IRS for longer than ive been around for. i look at his lifestyle and look at mine, and look at how much better mine is as of now than his has ever been. from the way my dad treated me, my brother, and my mother throughout most of our lives, i cant really look at him as a father....more like a friend. he was never there for me when i played baseball....my mom was out on the field with me tossing me balls. she was the only woman out on the field, and she did it for 4 years. my dad only came to one of my baseball games, from which he only stayed for 15 minutes because he was meeting people at the bar down the street. when i was about 17 or 18 i could see myself headed down the same path, but then i realized that the fast life wasnt for me. now i strive to be the exact opposite of him.

[Floppyman]

That might be true in high school, but I don't think it's like that in college. Doing your homework and keeping up with your grades gets you that degree and that job, not your friends.

The key is finding the right balance between the two -- and a lot of people don't. It's important to keep up with your work and watch your grades, but at the same time you should not become antisocial (and this is coming from a person with 3 majors who never has time to party :D ).

College is much more stressful than High School, not only because the work is harder, but also because you are treading on your own for the first time and don't have Mom and Dad watching over your every move. It's the time in life when you start to become responsible (hopefully) and make your own decisions.

[austin1]

i dont understand how raising a kid the right way can be hard? does not make sense to me because if you take your kids out and do activities such as get them in hockey and go wach there games ect and have fun in doing so then that makes the kid not want to do stuff that they should'nt because they are to occupied with other stuff to worry about smoking dope, or drinking or anything else for that matter. and its really not that hard to raise a kid the right way all you need to do is get a good start when there young tell them to say thank you and please and get them into the habits of being nice.

[doctorgonzo]

Yes, it's not hard to know how to raise a kid if you yourself were raised correctly, but how many parents weren't?

Last weekend I was at a lake in the middle of nowhere in MN, killing some time. Behind me sat a couple of women who had to be no older than 25 by my guess. They were saying things to each other like "You should move to *insanely small town*, it's great!" and "What kind of horrible person doesn't even come with us to the bars anymore?" and "You should go to court and get your child support increased for that, that's what so-and-so did." It was only afterwards that I saw these people had children with them (though the "child support" comment did give away that somebody in that group had to), and these were fairly old kids given the ages of the mothers. When the kids showed up, the mothers were yelling, threatening to spank them, swearing...pretty much acting as far from a parent as you can.

I'm guessing that these young mothers weren't exactly raised right, and their children probably aren't going to know how to be a good parent unless they get really lucky. Bad habits do usually come in cycles, as the children see how the parents act and don't know any better. Yes, some very good kids are smart enough and are fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to see a better way of life, but that's unfortunately too rare.

I'm with Cricket on the "decline of our civilization" belief. I think the main problem is that it is just too easy to dehumanize people these days. You can live such a sheltered life with technology and irrational fears that you lose all empathy and stop seeing other people as being just like yourself. Instead, it's "me first" and away with everybody else. It's sad.

[Force Flow]

I'm with Cricket on the "decline of our civilization" belief. I think the main problem is that it is just too easy to dehumanize people these days. You can live such a sheltered life with technology and irrational fears that you lose all empathy and stop seeing other people as being just like yourself. Instead, it's "me first" and away with everybody else. It's sad.
You can save the world, but you can try to help your community.

On an unrelated note...

You know, it's strange. I've noticed that what used to be the class of "normal working stiffs" are straying further and further away from "normality". Wheras the groups of people who where typlically considered outcasts (geeks, artists, writers, etc), are looking like more well-rounded and respectful people.

[kstatefan40]

You know, it's strange. I've noticed that what used to be the class of "normal working stiffs" are straying further and further away from "normality". Wheras the groups of people who where typlically considered outcasts (geeks, artists, writers, etc), are looking like more well-rounded and respectful people.

You mean like us? :D

[lil Jimmie]

Did any of you watch that new TV show on ABC called "Brat Camp"?
This topic made me think of it, I don't intend for this topic to get hijacked but this thread and show both hit a simular cord with me.

[Tin]

Did any of you watch that new TV show on ABC called "Brat Camp"?
This topic made me think of it, I don't intend for this topic to get hijacked but this thread and show both hit a simular cord with me.
very good show. im not one for reality TV, but to see these kids get a dose of reality made the show good.

[austin1]

"jerry springer is better"

[lil Jimmie]

"jerry springer is better"

IMHO shows like that only make the problems worse.

[Floppyman]

After reading this whole thread, I consider myself very lucky. I have nothing but good things to say about my parents. While there were some restrictions that I disagreed with strongly when I was a teenager, I now finally realize the benefits and have come to appreciate the rules that were imposed upon me back then. One thing I particulary love about my parents is that they are always there for me and always willing to listen and help, no matter what. It's exactly that and the rules, I think, which has kept me on a straight path, free of all the evils that society throws at kids everyday. Personally, I was never a star athlete in High School and wasn't blessed with very much musical talent either -- making me not the most popular guy around. So instead of partying and drinking in High School, I decided I'd go find a job to make some $$$ -- and I did -- three years at a fastfood place. Plus if you look at my join date on pcmech and consider my current age, you can see that I spent a lot of time here as well. Where other people might have called me a geek in High School, this place has always been very welcoming and I've made some great friends here -- and have grown up a lot too through the mature discussion.

Back to the original topic, I fully agree. I actually sometimes will not give something to someone if they don't say please to me -- believe it or not, I do this my college buddies -- it's pretty sad.

People say the most difficult job in the world is being a good parent and I fully agree with that. Just turn on the TV or take a drive around town and you'll realize why. With society constantly preaching that looks are everything, money and lots of possesions are the key to true happiness and success (yeah, right) and who cares about our "neighbor", how can it not be difficult?

[DonVito]

I hear ya floppy man. My dad was kinda a big jock in his day but my parents never really cared that i wasn't a big sports star or anything all they would always say was "just do something". My sister was really good in basketball so she played in tounaments with her team all summer. So she never really had a summer job but to me thats fine because you have all your life to work unless you play in college you only have 4 short years to play sports like that. as for me i got a summer job 3 summers in high school. but i didnt mind i loved having the extra money. they always said to try to be involved in something in high school. because when kids run into trouble is when they get bored outta there mind. Just do something you enjoy (for me it was computers). And to not worry about a job during the school year because in that 9 months going to school and getting the best grades you can is your only job.

[Cricket]

When the kids showed up, the mothers were yelling, threatening to spank them, swearing...pretty much acting as far from a parent as you can.Unfortunately that's what many people think parenting is...yelling and screaming at your kids and smacking them around once in a while. To these people, children are just a nuisance that they have to put up with until the kids are old enough to move out of the home. And then it's "good riddance" and "I hope they don't come back".

:) Cricket

[austin1]

Unfortunately that's what many people think parenting is...yelling and screaming at your kids and smacking them around once in a while. To these people, children are just a nuisance that they have to put up with until the kids are old enough to move out of the home. And then it's "good riddance" and "I hope they don't come back".

:) Cricket

humm what if the kids get out of line thow? you dont think they should get punished how else would they learn. if its for no reason that there getting yelled at then i agree with u.

[bailey]

how to displine the children opens up a whole new can of worms.

I belived in the old fashoned methods to teach my kids what is right and wrong, but also I have learned that each one has a mind of there own and will still do what they want to do reguardless of what you teach them. there is a lot of things that they have to learn by themselves.

[David M]

There will always be a battle between the counter-culture which wants to drag down societies moral standards and parents who want their children to have moral standards.

In the Fifties we had Elvis pushing the envelope of societies standards shaking his hips which by todays standards is nothing.

In the Sixties we had the Beatles and the whole drug culture again pushing the envelope.

Now we have rap where its cool to shoot cops and call women b_tches and hoes pushing the envelope so far towards the negative side of the spectrum one wonders how much more negative it can go.

The problem is whats considered the edge or the envelope of whats okay and what is not ok, has swung so far towards the negative that one has to wonder how will parents ever battle this extreme negative swing?

Manners are not cool or hip any longer. So whats a parent to do? Let their kids know that if they want to get along with good people and be accepted by good people that they had better get used to using good manners otherwise be accepted only by societes degenerates. One can be poor and still have high ethics and standards. That's not related to the issue.

Ask your kids who they would rather be accepted by?...people with good values, ethics and standards? Or be accepted by societies degenerates (who are not going to treat them very well anyway)?

Yes our culture has deterioriated as far as where the envelope of whats acceptable, and whats not acceptable, has shifted. This does not mean that good people must accept the definition of what the entertainment industry and popular culture says we must accept or become.

Manners exist as rules to treat people as we would wish to be treated by others. Ultimatly, what comes around goes around. ...or treat others as you would wish to be treated. Children need to learn this lesson first before they can understand the value of good manners.

Only animals in the wild do whats best for themselves first without regard for the consequences of their actions to others. Kids if not taught this lesson become little animals themselves.

[kstatefan40]

David, I agree with many of your points. My parents would litterally kick my ass if I wasn't respectful around them - they expect it. Then there are parents whose kids were never respectful, so they just grow to expect that. Humans, if not taught to interface with society correctly will act out of natural instinct, and without regard for others. If mannors are not expected, they won't be given. I have a family who expects me to do the right thing, expects me to work for my money, and expects me to excel in life. If those aspects weren't expected of me, I probably wouldn't do it.

Another thing, that was just mentioned at dinner yesterday - nothing comes for free, and you have to learn that early. Too many kids nowdays don't know what work is, and once their parents stop - or are unable to - support them any longer, they are lost without anywhere to go. They expect life to be easy.

I learned that lesson early. I wanted a laptop three years ago. I begged my parents to spend the $1000 on it for me... I just had to have it. Their response was simple: get a job. Now hold up a second... I was 12 at the time. How do I get a job??? I wanted the laptop bad enough that I found ways to do it. Mowing lawns. Tutoring. Babysitting. I got the laptop in 4 months. Now, my parents won't buy me anything electronic: they don't need to anymore. I'm a writer, I mow lawns, I tutor, I design websites, I build / repair computers, and various other things. I work for what I want.

Another thing that I see that bugs me is the clothes kids wear. I was just talking on IRC the other day about this. Its a [multiple words editted here for you PGers out there] war... and girls aren't even in high school yet! Today, for example. I saw a girl that was no more than 12, wearing a tight red midrift and a skirt which was so short, you could see her whole thong under it. Come on people, do you know what your kid is wearing? Who would even let their kid BUY that type of clothes, let alone wear it out in public!!! This is a problem with manors too, because these type of girls do not get treated with respect (how can they be???), so they act like what they are treated. Its horrible. I have a few good girl friends who are very moddest, respectful, and enjoyable. They dress like they act - jeans and a t-shirt, or basketball shorts and a t-shirt. Sad thing is, there are fewer than 20 in the whole high school here (out of a school of 2500) who are like this. I know other girls think that guys like the tight stuff, but honestly, I prefer the loose fitting, comfortable looking clothes.

Sad facts, but I'm seeing more and more of this kind of crap at my age and younger. Sure, I cuss, but I also realize there is a time and place (cough... irc) for that. You won't find me doing it anywhere formal, or around adults - I would be dead :)

Time to end the long rant. Talk to ya folks later!

[Jaggannath]

I'm with you 100% Tyler, fear not... the manner of dress is getting worse, and advertising of everything is only making it worse. For instance, I saw an electronic toy for sale where the 10 year old girls advertising it were dressed like rapper tarts.

I also learnt the value of money early... my parents gave me $0.50 a week from the time I was 5, and it increased $0.10 with every year I got older. If I wanted something, I either saved up, or asked for it for my birthday or Christmas. Having a birthday in Nov meant I really had a long time to consider whether I really wanted it too :D

If you want to see the degradation of manners in society, I'll tell you the best indicator: the roads. There are still bastions of hope, where people demonstrate good manners, but there are also the arrogant selfish twats who drive as if noone else exists.

[padawan]

I'm a high school teacher, and I see this all day long, everyday. Kids say they have ADD, parents call me and threaten me when their kids EARN an F in my class. Athletes are held in higher regard than the regular students...the list is long. For the parents, it's more important to drive a Hummer or BMW and have that 5 bedroom house than it is to raise their kids. Most families have two incomes, and the kids are left home alone everyday. No structure, no rules other than don't go to jail. No lie...one kid's parents gave him an Escalade, and told him as long as he stayed out of jail the car was his. He failed classes and was a royal pain in the ass...but he had a nice car and clothes.

My dad was a crack dealer and my step mother used to beat us so bad we missed school because of bruises. I never did drugs, committed crimes, or did any of the crap some of these kids now are doing. It's all personal choice...you are either a good person or you are not. I easily could have used my home life as an excuse to be a bad person, and society would have pampered me and told me it's not my fault. Bah....people KNOW right from wrong. Most just choose to ignore it now days.

[Cricket]

Our society is on the decline.Bears repeating...our society is going down the toilet.

:) Cricket

[Siberian Bear]

Bears repeating...our society is going down the toilet.

I've got to agree. What happened to decency? A few months ago I saw a lady (a bit of a distance away) trip and fall on a busy street (pedestrain street - no cars), yet no one close to her helped her, however she quickly got up and all was well. However it bothered me that no one helped her, and I didn't go to her to help her either.

Some weeks ago a row errupted between what I presume was a girlfriend and boyfriend. The boyfriend was screaming obscienities at the girlfriend (who was holding a baby). Once again it was on a busy street, once again I was some distance away, and no one told the guy to be quiet or whatever, however the guy didn't seem the type that'd take that without lashing out.

I'm only 18, so I suppose I shouldn't really comment on this but we seem to be living in a society where we are unsure of our values.

[padawan]

Another place that the lack of manners shines is the movie theater. The amount of rude people in a theater is insane. People bring infants to a horror movies, screaming toddlers crying at the sight of The Grudge. Disgusting.

My wife, daughter, and I went to a drive in movie. It started out nicely, we pulled my truck in backwards, had a blanket, popcorn, and drinks. Weather was great, movie starts, and we are having a great time.

Then, for some reason we don't know, a group of about 10 cars leaves the other screen, and they are caught in a small traffic jam trying to get out of the theater. So what does the average white trash moron do when stuck in traffic at a theater? Wail the horn of course. After about 10 minutes I am fuming mad, so I go over to the line of cars and start walking up to the windows and telling the people to stop honking their horns because it is ruining our movie. Politely, I might add. You'd have thought I was the one doing something wrong by the way these people were talking back to me. The theater rent-a-cop finally comes over, I suppose sensing that something could erupt from this, and silences the cars. Until I went over there, he was just standing by the restrooms ignoring the blaring horns. As I walk back to my truck, the people yell obscenities at me. Very classy.

[Siberian Bear]

A few years ago, at school before people with a zero in manners left, classes would frequently be disrupted by someone who thought shouting something at someone was funny.

Athletes are held in higher regard than the regular students

I agree with that, but is that a new thing or has it always been that way?

[Stuey]

Parents may be mostly responsible for how their child matures into an adult but other factors matter. I have a twin sister and despite the fact that we both grew up in the same household, we are both extremely different people. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that we attended very different high schools. She went to a local HS and I commuted via subway to a science and math oriented HS.

Observations and experiences are also largely possible for a person's adult personality. It is also true that observations and experiences also alter a person's characteristics and tendencies.

However, children are becomming increasingly disrespectul and ill mannered. The thing is, like never before, populations are spreading out and breaking out of isolations. Whereas 15 years ago a child could only be influenced by peers they directly encounter, now a child can be influenced indirectly via internet based means. I honestly believe that today's youth are exposed to increasing amounts of inappropriate content and attitudes and this adds to the whole mess of things.

Parents are responsible for their childrens' upbringing but having been raised in yesteryear, there are probably few parents who are raising their children in a manner appropriate with how the world, or even their own community, exists today.

[neochivers]

In the UK the kids are taught HE (Health education)they learn about thing that most people would say "ull find out when ure 18" and general health... in my first lesson of HE (along time ago) we learnt about the Health triangle .. with a nice little song and video from disney... the three sides of the tringle were
1)Mental (thought, knowledge)
2)Physical (size,build,sex)
3)social (friends)

now if you are a parent whe wont let your kids do anything they will probly excell on the mental side but if u let you kids have friends they will have mental and socal but wont be very big... us guy who sat at computers in there childhood years are normally have mental and physical... as i noticed i was always big for my age. and other computer, game people normally are...

[David M]

I am so tired of the white trash element of our society...especially the ones with the boom-boom cars. They are seemingly everywhere now. They are the ones who blare their radios in the campgrounds. They are the ones with the hats on backwards who have no manners whatsoever and are always trying to pick a fight. Their culture disgusts me and I want no part of them. Our culture is going downhill and they are leading the way. Its a real shame.

[Cricket]

It's the Crowded Rat Syndrome...the more people you have, the more uncivilized they become.

:) Cricket

[David M]

You got that Cricket...That's why I am getting the hell out of California when I retire. Life must be nice in Hawaii. Perhaps I will move in next door and bring my car with the 2000 watt stereo system? Would you be cool with that? :)

[Cricket]

Life must be nice in Hawaii.Nope. It's just as crowded here and traffic is atrocious, not to mention the sky-high housing prices.

:) Cricket

[tomster2300]

I wholeheartedly agree, our society is definately on the decline. Sadly, I'm not sure what there can be done to help save it.

You UK guys out there, is it any less trashier across the pond? London isn't looking half bad anymore.

[Floppyman]

You know people always make fun of me being from the "land of corn", but there is something to said about Iowa and growing in a small town with small town values. No gangs, no traffic, no pollution and low crime. Not a great place to become the next Bill Gates perhaps, but still a great place to raise a family.

[kstatefan40]

You know people always make fun of me being from the "land of corn", but there is something to said about Iowa and growing in a small town with small town values. No white trash, no gangs, no traffic, no pollution and low crime. Not a great place to become the next Bill Gates perhaps, but still a great place to raise a family.

Well, I'm from the land of Oz, and we have that crap. Little pollution, but we have the "My daddy's rich, so I can do whatever I want" syndrome around. It really bugs me.

[Cricket]

You know people always make fun of me being from the "land of corn", but there is something to said about Iowa and growing in a small town with small town values. No white trash, no gangs, no traffic, no pollution and low crime. Not a great place to become the next Bill Gates perhaps, but still a great place to raise a family.Lower population densities, lower problems. Seems the more people you have in any one place, the more problems you have...although I have no idea what it's like in places like China and India where the populations are over 1 billion people. China's land area probably means less people per square mile, not sure about India.

:) Cricket

[rspassey]

id like to comment on how well i think my rents have raised me and stil raise me, since im only 15, they encourage that i do me best and would help me on school projects and stuff, before i got heavily into computers they supported me in my other hobbies and wentto all my sports games and meets, and they support me in my decision to stop sports for now and play games and build my computer and learn programing , they also never steered me away,from violent games and tv,(they did tell me it was bad to do this stuff) and yet exposure to this violence hasnt made me into a violent cursing jailbound teen, i actualy got a 4.0 gpa last year and mantained a good social life with good friends who arent mixed up in drug and drinking, they also told me about the effects of drugs and alchol and even if they havent told me that stuff i still woulndt have done it, at 13 i pledged to be straight edge after my cousin got pregnant at 17, its all about how parents let children explore at the same time steer them away from the bads, but not to enforce rules that leave the child wtih no idea on how to react and present themselves with their peers in a social environment, thats my input on it

[Amazin Caucasian]

just want to comment, i know a lot of people who drink and do drugs but arent bad people a lot of them are cool, i just dont hang out with them when they smoke or experiment with other stuff. common misconception that people who do drugs are bad people.

[rspassey]

its not that they are all bad ppl, more that it is a bad thing to do, drinking destroyes the liver, and smoking drugs and injecting drugs can result in hiv, lung cancer, death from oding, and many more effects

[Amazin Caucasian]

but when you are high and/or drunk you really dont think about that. One could argue that their judgement to do drugs shows their weakness in character and i would have to agree. but I still view them as friends.

[rspassey]

im not trying to say that they shouldnt be your friends, im just saying that nothing good comes from those substances

[Cricket]

And what does that have to do with good manners?

:) Cricket

[Amazin Caucasian]

prejudice profiling is not good manners.

[Floppyman]

Well, I'm from the land of Oz, and we have that crap. Little pollution, but we have the "My daddy's rich, so I can do whatever I want" syndrome around. It really bugs me.

Oh of course, that's everywhere, even in my town. The problem in small towns is that when there's only a couple families with a lot of money they feel they are in control of the town/school etc. as well. It's horrible I know. The problem with such people is that even if the real world hits them smack dab in the face, Daddy and Mommy will always be there to bail them out of trouble. In my opinion, the integrity of man is not measured by his material possesions, but rather how he interacts with society.

[inflames988]

watched a movie in my health course this year that was requried by the school. blamed just about every violent incident by kids on video games/movies. Surprisingly more so video games, but in my opinion they still arent close to the graphics found in movies. Anyway my teacher showed us a site dedicated to ridding the world of video games. We looked up "halo 2" on the website, and the review totally contradicted itself...something like "this average first peson shooter is over glorified for its so-so graphics and average gameplay, though it is really violent. avoid it." later donw on the page it said "dont let the awesome graphics and gameplay make you allow your kids to play it" or soemthing like that.

This isnt the problem. People/parents are getting more and more impatient, and becoming too focused on things that arent important. I dont talk to my parents much anymore. No matter how many times i tell them something they only half-listen to what im saying at best. Of course then when they need something they end up asking questions that ive alredy explained a million times and i get real frustrated as you can imagine.

[Floppyman]

This just begs the fundamental question, what are people's priorities in life?

[kstatefan40]

This just begs the fundamental question, what are people's priorities in life?

For some people, it seems to be jack up everyone who has priorities.

A semi-quote from glc, if I may:

"It seems like there are so many idiots in life, but in fact, its just the idiots that are noticed. The mainstream are not idiots, but mainstream doesn't stick out."
Something like that - it makes sense.

[Floppyman]

For some people, it seems to be jack up everyone who has priorities.

A semi-quote from glc, if I may:

"It seems like there are so many idiots in life, but in fact, its just the idiots that are noticed. The mainstream are not idiots, but mainstream doesn't stick out."
Something like that - it makes sense.

After thinking about that for a second, that's very true. Just turn on the TV -- that's proof enough.

[kstatefan40]

Think about this:

When was the last time you were out and about and pointed to a friend and said "Look, that group is normal!"

[inflames988]

Like i said.. being a good parent IS NOT disciplining. Its beeing a good role model. Your children 90% of the time are going to end up just like you. If you just act the way you want them to be... thats what they will be. If your just doing absolutly nothing and being a couch potato and telling your childrem what they cant do.. thats not going to teach them... At first I started out just like my dad... but my wife and i went to counsiling and im WAY better now. I do visit my parents quite a bit now though. I just dont think they really were ready to have kids. Im the youngest too... ive got 2 older brothers... one is serving over in iraq... and the other one is in prison. I dont visit them too often and I honestly dont care a whole lot if my brother does come back from iraq. Being that he attempted to kill me at age 23 i dont have a whole lot of sympathy for him anymore. Im just very thankful to have ended up nothing like any of them.

exactly. a student from my old school was 2 years younger in 3rd grade with me. now in college (at least 3 years above me now), the student was yelling at parents to buy something in the store i work at, then just flew out the door, telling the parents to bring it to the car. they stayed and paid for it, and brought it out. great social skills there.

[Floppyman]

Think about this:

When was the last time you were out and about and pointed to a friend and said "Look, that group is normal!"

And with that comes the added complexity that the terms, normal, crazy, weird, etc.. are all relative. What I think is weird you might think is normal and so on.

[kstatefan40]

Yep, everything is truth when looked at from a certain perspective. Think of Obi-Wan in A New Hope :)

[Jaggannath]

You know people always make fun of me being from the "land of corn", but there is something to said about Iowa and growing in a small town with small town values. No gangs, no traffic, no pollution and low crime. Not a great place to become the next Bill Gates perhaps, but still a great place to raise a family.

I'm the same mate, I get ragged on for being a farm boy from Sunbury (I'm not a farm boy, btw, I just have simple tastes). The worst thing, though, is seeing your small town and it's small town values go down the gurgler when more people move in and corrupt the town, which sadly has happened to my own town. We even had washing stolen from our washing line once.

kstatefan, by Oz you meant Kansas, as in 'Wizard of Oz', yeah??

[David M]

It seems to be boiling down to two elements. The culture and the parents. Sometimes they are at odds..and sometimes not.

I like the concept of parents being the guardrails of a childs development. Parents should give children enuough leeway to explore and to learn yet provide enough discipline and the ability to say "No" when it looks like they are going to do something that could do irrepairable damage to the child.

[neochivers]

i live in belfast... 20 years ago you cot searched by the police every 5 minutes and you coldnt turn a coner whith out seeing the army. do you want that in america?

[kstatefan40]

I pray it never comes to that.

[neochivers]

trust me you dont want it as it scars the hell outa ya when a petrol station blows up in ure face, its happened to me

[IronMentality]

Just a few things I'll add to this discussion:

- We aren't showing the consequences of poor decisions to our youth.

Statistics, and facts are widely known, and are not properly communicated to 'young punks' like me. Where I live, which is an upper middle class community with excellent schools, we got a D-level Consumer Education, and hardly any emphasis on Physical Education and Health.

Despite all the advancements we've made as a society, how can we continue to decline like this with all that we have done?

We can put a man on the moon but can't teach someone to balance a checkbook, save for himself, and be degraded to the point where MTV2 is a prime investment of someone's daily time?

Emphasis needs to be put on what happens if you do (choice A, e.g. doing Crystal Meth), on getting into the youth's head about proper diet and exercise, and how to treat people with decency.

I just wish we would allocate our resources correctly to combat these problems (America spends ungodly amounts more on Education then any other country in the world) yet we are the worst performers in nearly everything except our higher education.

Just my two cents...

[tomster2300]

I bring up my homepage (www.msn.com) and this makes the frontpage.

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/hotgossip

Our "hollywood idols" are such wonderful people. The guy runs off from his pregnant wife (his child) so he can go impregnate Spears. I think our manners may come back if we could first wipe out all of Hollywood. I would gladly do away with movies if I could turn on my television and not hear the latest hollywood gossip on every channel, esp. the national news. If the media did not hype up the latest trash these scumbags have commited, then nobody would really care -- or at least I hope they wouldn't.

EDIT: I actually got through it this time, I was too disgusted before.

"Brit and Kevin, apparently exhausted from their long days of doing not much at all, relaxed with in-room spa treatments and by dropping some cash at local shops (Kev practiced his swing with a new set of golf clubs)."

This was the reason which the punk couldn't come celebrate his child's first birthday. Pure scumbag trash. These people make me sick.

I rest my case.

[Sauron]

Another thing i don't dont understand in homeshooling and skipping kids through multiple grades. theres so much more to school than reading and writing. IMO one of the bigest parts of school is learning how to make friends, be with kids your age,learning how to follow rules, and learn to communicate. if your a genius from homeschool or your super smart and in college when your 15, all that intelligence and ideas is useless if you can't make friends, follow rules or carry a good conversation. Like that girl in crickets story.

Really? You really believe that the average Joe who can't read or write well will succeed because he learned how to make friends, and carry on a good conversation?

Honestly, you can't carry on a good conversation about anything unless you are well read. In fact you will basically fail in college and will become nothing in later life if you don't have a firm grasp on the three R's.

I was homeschooled for eleven years, spent my final year in a high school near here. After I had been through that, I realized that my parents had been correct. My parents at least treat me as a human being; in that school the feeling was obvious that the teachers all had favorites and weren't willing to help the less unfortunate. I was able (because of my superior skills) able to help those out that were struggling. I also realized that most of the kids there at the school had drug problems, weren't able to carry on a intelligent conversation with most of their classmates and would be struggling to be anything in todays society.

I am nearly eighteen years of age; I can carry on a good conversation, be taken anywhere. I am well read, my writing isn't that shoddy, and I certainly am not bad in mathematics. My parents, friends and so on know I can be trusted to keep my mouth shut and to be always be polite and friendly. Most homeschoolers that I have met are the same way. None of us were these little geeks that had no idea how to be social in the real world. I really don't appreciate your abusing of the homeschooling which obviously you know nothing about whatsoever.

[rspassey]

better manners also have to come from comunication and interaction with well mannered people, one of my best friends, who recently moved out of argentina where we lived within a block of eachother, to the US, and I had deep conversations about topics like this and other ideas on drugs drinking sex, violence, war, she was 3 years older than me and very inteligent and just threw spending time together i know my manners, especially gentlemanly skill improved, along with how i can open up and share my feelings with someone, which i had never done before we started hanging out, for being only 15 and no longer a resident of the US or canada i can also see that the youth is better behaved here in Argentina than north america

[kstatefan40]

I really don't appreciate your abusing of the homeschooling which obviously you know nothing about whatsoever.

It is sad that you experienced public education in that way. Although great teachers are growing few and far between, it helps you, as a student, realize that live isn't all easy. You learn to work around the crap teachers, and grow from the great ones. I've tried to hold a good relationship with my great teachers - talking to them well after my year with them had past.

You really can't say that you are smart because you were homeschooled, and I can't say that I am smart because I went to a public school, BUT I believe that each person learns different. Average Joe's parents probalby don't know anything about homeschooling, so they send their kids to an environment where they can learn. If your parents know what they are doing, that's great, let them teach you. I don't approve of most homeschooling because often parents don't know what they are teaching. Why not let someone who specializes in a subject teach it? Now, I am not saying anything at all against you or your parents - its just for me, I do not believe it is a good idea for *most* people. It could have helped you excel in life, but it could have jacked up Average Joe's life. Public schooling could have helped me excel in life, but it could have been a bad environment for you to be in. It just depends on the person.

I'm not saying this to offend you in any way - people really can't rag on either one. I myself have taught and coached many, many kids; I've learned that you have to model your teaching style on the child. Manors are also taught this way.

[David M]

You can't assume that a home schooled child has no social life elsewhere. The fact is, there are pleanty of other places other than school for children to interact with other children. I don't think I need to make a list to prove my point. BTW, I send my son to a private school and he his grades above his peers in government school.

Home schooled children also do much better academically. The tests prove this. There almost seems to be an envious response from people who have to send their children to government schools. I say government rather than public schools, because that is what they are.