My First Gaming PC Build

[PnyK1d]

Hi Guy Heres my list of parts and im wondering if eveytings is correct in the kinds of parts of buying here it is.

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe
From Frys


RAIDMAX Scorpio ATX-868WBP Black 0.8mm Japanese SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 420watts PS2 ATX12V Power Supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811156135

80GB SATA Seagate Barracuda 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148107

XFX 7600GT 256MB:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814150141

CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145440

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice 2000MHz HT:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103533


Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2 - OEM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16837102059

[jayb1234]

The PSU in that case will NOT work for that build. It is only ATX with a 20 pin main connector and from a lousy maker. A decent PSU alone will cost more than that case and psu does. If you must have that case try to get it without a power supply, or just toss the one it comes with. You need an ATX 2.0 unit with a 24 pin main from a quality maker like Antec, Enermax, or FSP. The Antec TPII 550W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103931) would be good and is SLI certified in case you want to add a second video card in the future. If you don't plan on using SLI later, you can save some cash by getting the non-SLI version of the motherboard.

[PnyK1d]

The PSU included with the case is a 24pin if you look at the pics, and if im wrong i know the asus a8n-sli deluxe has the so called "EZ Plug" the will allow me the plug a standard 4 pin connector, to the mobo that will give me enough power. BTW I am buy two 7600gt's.
PSU provided is just a temporay one just to hold me up until i get more money for a sli certified one, but I think that 420 watt PSU will hold out for the Mobo(w/ SLI) for a bit.
I belive I need a second opinion.

[Freakitchen]

I belive I need a second opinion.

JayB is entirely correct. Even though the included PSU has 24 pins, its of low quality, and is NOT ATX2 that is required for a PCI-Express build, let alone an SLI. Budget for an Sli Certified power supply right now, such as the Antec Truepower II 550w.

In my opinion, it would be a mistake to purchase 2 7600GTs. They would be out-performed by a single higher spec card, such as the 7900GT.

FK

[glc]

You are spending good hard earned money on expensive components, and it is foolish to trust them all to a junk power supply. It's like putting bald recapped tires on a $50,000 car and driving it 100 mph.

[PnyK1d]

Okay thanks guys for the suggestions and info. i now plan to purchase the
Antec TRUEPOWERII and 1 XFX GeForce 7900 GT, instead of using the provided PSU and two 7600gt's. buying 1 7900gt is a lot cheaper, not to mention i've reaserched and the one 7900 does outpreform 2 7600's, thanks agian guys.

[786ARS]

if ure going with 1*7900 GT, then u cand downgrade to a non sli mobo.

[PnyK1d]

i do plan to purchase a second 7900gt in the following two months after building my pc.(probably will have it up in by the end of the next 2 weeks.

however i found this power supply instead
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817374001
was wondering if it's any good. trying to save a little more $$$.

oh yeah, im not sure if this is relivent, but as my build being as a gaming pc, it wont be on 24/7. i know quite a few people who leave it on ALL DAY!(just for a IM program) therefore i am driven to buy a lower priced PSU, knowing the outcome will be somwhat lower preformance, dont get me wrong but, is it really necesary to get a top of the line PSU for a PC that will only be used 3-4 hours a day?

[Mr.Ferrari]

It wont matter if you leave it on all day or not. It is a gaming pc and even for that 3/4 hours it will be put through alot of stress.

If you really want to keep single gpu and are strapped for cash, throw that psu away and get this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954

But remember, it will not power 2 of those cards. When you upgrade, plan on upgradeing the psu as well.

Just fyi, DirectX 10 cards are comeing out in September. Its your choice entirely, but I wouldnt spend too much money on sli right now and have something that will still be outdated.

Once again the games probally wont have too much of an advantage of dx10 until atleast a year, so where you go with that is your decision entirely.

[PnyK1d]

Keeping up to date with technology today is just plain expensive;)

[Freakitchen]

Mr Ferrari is right about the power supply. InWin don't make quality units, and the Antec Truepower has better specs (more amps on the 12v rails, for instance). It's also SLI certified, and if you plan on adding another 7900GT, this is a vital specification.

FK

[glc]

Trying to save $30 on a power supply when you are playing with $300 video cards is just plain old false economy. If you buy a high performance car that requires premium gasoline, are you going to try to save 20 cents a gallon and put regular grade in it and possibly blow holes in your pistons?

[jfk]

I never understand why people will spend SSSSOOOO much on the PC components and then try to save a few $$$$ on the PSU. If you're even CONSIDERING going with an SLI rig, buy an approved PSU from the certified list up front. It will be cheaper than having to replace it down the road when you add the second card. Even if you are only going with one card, get a QUALITY PSU. It's the heart of your system.........;)

[Ghost(BOO!)]

I never understand why people will spend SSSSOOOO much on the PC components and then try to save a few $$$$ on the PSU. If you're even CONSIDERING going with an SLI rig, buy an approved PSU from the certified list up front. It will be cheaper than having to replace it down the road when you add the second card. Even if you are only going with one card, get a QUALITY PSU. It's the heart of your system.........;)


most newbies to the pc world don't think a good psu is any different then a bad one because in their eyes it gives the same kind of power no matter what psu it is and don't know that a bad psu can damage their whole system. Every newbie I've ever met say the same thing to me about power supplies, "Why does it matter?", and then after explaining to them why it matters they feel a sense of relief that they did not purchase a 20 dollar psu.:)

[jfk]

most newbies to the pc world don't think a good psu is any different then a bad one because in their eyes it gives the same kind of power no matter what psu it is and don't know that a bad psu can damage their whole system. Every newbie I've ever met say the same thing to me about power supplies, "Why does it matter?", and then after explaining to them why it matters they feel a sense of relief that they did not purchase a 20 dollar psu.:)

I agree, but after it is pointed out to them several times in threads (not just here but in other threads we've had) that they STILL want to save a few $$$.:)

[Mr.Ferrari]

I think its just because they find no "performance" in the psu. Like XXXmhz clocks with gpu's and super gazillion ghz fast cpu's, they just dont see whats the point in a A brand 420W psu and a B prand 420W psu.

Its not too linear to them until someone explains why. Gives ya a headache sometimes..

[glc]

Just like the old game they used to play (maybe still do) with stereo amplifier outputs. 200 watts PMPO (peak music power output) is about the same as 20 watts RMS. Can sure make a cheap piece of crap amp sound like it's good, rating it PMPO.

[PnyK1d]

Thanks again guys for the PC lesson. Okay sorry to edit my components again, but i just purchased a MaximumPC magazine and i read that the PNY 6800gs give you the best bang for your buck, however i looked On newegg for it and didny find any. So I found this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150130

its a lot cheaper than a one 7900 so i plan on getting 2, is this card any good for SLI? and would I be able to play the latest games like Prey for instance w/ two of these in SLI? and would these outpreform some of newer cards on the market today? and if it does, and i purchase the 2 what power supply could you guys reccomend me to use?

[blue60007]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130028

Get ONE of those...it'll outperform two of those and is roughly the same price (one powerful card is better than two weaker cards at the same value). And if you don't get an SLI board, then you don't need a SLI-Certified PSU (doesn't mean you can cheap out on the PSU now, but you could get a less watt version of a quality PSU...) and that might save you a few bucks. Or keep the SLI board and SLI-Certified PSU and upgrade later to two cards later.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103931

[PnyK1d]

well just how good is the preformance of two of those in SLI, or better yet what are the best budgest SLI cards I can buy? I want to REALLY utilize the SLI for i've already bought the mobo and case.

[blue60007]

Didn't find any numbers, but it looks like they were having the same debate over at THG:
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/6800xt-match-7900gt-ftopict189582.html

[Freakitchen]

In my opinion, SLI is best used for two things. Firstly, for the creation of an absolutely top-of-the-range system by purchasing two of the very best cards avabilable. As the second (very expensive) card gives only a small increase in fps over just one, this can only be done where money is no object.

The second use for SLI is as an upgrade option. Purchasing an SLI motherboard and Certified Power Supply - but only one card initially - allows for the addition of a second some time in the future, ususally when that card has decreased significantly in price.

Of course, if you DO want to play with SLI right now, there's nothing stopping you. I simply thought I'd give you what are (in my humble opinion) the facts. Since one higher-spec card will outperform two lower-spec cards in SLI, I personally wouldn't go the latter route on a new build.

FK

[jfk]

well just how good is the preformance of two of those in SLI, or better yet what are the best budgest SLI cards I can buy? I want to REALLY utilize the SLI for i've already bought the mobo and case.

It's NOT as good as a single 7900GT. Period. If you "want to REALLY utilize the SLI", then you REALLY need to spend some $$$. You are better off getting ONE 7900GT as blue mentioned than two of the cards you picked out. The price is the same and your performance will be better. Then, as Freak mentioned, you can add another 7900GT down the road as they get cheaper. Using SLI with low end cards is ridiculous, as ONE higher performing card will beat it. Put it this way....there are several SLI systems in people's signatures on this board. At least some use 6600's, and 6800's. My SINGLE X1900XT card will smoke those systems both in benchmarks and real world performance. Listen to what Freak and Blue have told you.....if you want SLI and don't want to spend a bunch of money, get one GOOD card now and add another twin to it later OR pony up and spend a bunch now for two good cards. Otherwise, don't bother.

[blue60007]

Yep, unfortuntately, doing SLI the right way will costs lots of $$$ (big plus for nVidia!).

[PnyK1d]

okay i gess ill go on my fist desion w/ a 7600gt,(ill just get one though) i saw bench marks saying it can play doom 3 on a 1280x1024 res.(full sett. w/ 4x aa) and get 35.3 fps, on one video card.
IS 35 FPS a good frame rate to be playing at?
If not what is a smooth rate to be playing at?(really want this qestion answered)

also I read that SLI cand be used with any card as long as its the same gpu. does that mean you could pair a 7900gt w/ a 7600gt in SLI? just curious.

thanks.

[glc]

No, the cards must be the same series - the only thing you can pair with a 7600GT is another 7600GT.

[PnyK1d]

hi guy i was wondering if this PSU is a good choice http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103929
would it run two 7600gt in SLI w/ my Asus A8N-SLI DLX. or should I just stick to the 550 watt version?

[Freakitchen]

It's a good Power supply, but not SLI Certified. No point saving a few dollars now if you'd have to get rid of it when you add a second card. Stick with the 550w version.

FK

[blue60007]

35fps isn't too smooth. It'll be choppy. I'd say 45-50fps at the least.

[jfk]

okay i gess ill go on my fist desion w/ a 7600gt,(ill just get one though) i saw bench marks saying it can play doom 3 on a 1280x1024 res.(full sett. w/ 4x aa) and get 35.3 fps, on one video card.
IS 35 FPS a good frame rate to be playing at?
If not what is a smooth rate to be playing at?(really want this qestion answered)

also I read that SLI cand be used with any card as long as its the same gpu. does that mean you could pair a 7900gt w/ a 7600gt in SLI? just curious.

thanks.

The 7600 will be okay. Not great but not bad. Personally, I'd still get a 7900 myself.;) Basically, 35 FPS is about what the human eye can discern. It's right on the borderline of being "choppy" or "stuttery". I would not consider that good performance. You will need to turn down some settings in the game (or get a higher performing card) to get more playable fps. I generally want at LEAST 45 fps in games to avoid the stutters, and prefer even more.

[PnyK1d]

okay guys, coming down to my last component recommendations, before i place my order on friday.

I was wondering if there is any "REAL" preformance difference betwen 1gig of ram and 2 gigs of ram.

I was planning on purching 2 gigs of ram and was wondering if it would be better to buy 4 sticks of 512mb ram of just buying 2 1gig ram sticks, all of which are all dual channel ram. which way should i go, to get the best prefomance?
Plan on Playing games Like BF2, CoD 2, Doom 3, Prey, CS:S, DoD:S

[Mr.Ferrari]

2x1gb

[PnyK1d]

2x1gb

Can You tell/teach me why it would be better?

[glc]

Some motherboards will not run 4 sticks of ram at rated speed. Using just a pair leaves slots open for a future upgrade. A pair of 2x1's will probably be cheaper than 2 pairs of 2x512's.

[PnyK1d]

okay thanks, you guys have been a real help, I'm glad i've joined this form, much better than dells;) i'll send in my order to newegg on friday, so i can assemle on my day off. I plan to but BF2 as my first game for this PC. thanks again.

scince im getting two 7600gt that doesnt require a sepreate power plug i'm going to get this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103937
BTW any suggestions for a moniter? i plan to stay in the 17-19 in. zone

[jayb1234]

The 500W smartpower is not SLI certified. The Antec NeoHE 500W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103940) is. But it is 20 bucks more than what the TPII 550w (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817103931) is going for. Spend the extra 10 bucks and get the TPII 550W.

[jfk]

Get the Antec TPII 550 watt PSU. I have the Antec 500 watt you picked out in one of my PC's, and though it's a great PSU it is NOT SLI certified. It doesn't matter if the 7600GT's require power connectors or not, they will be pulling a LOT of power from the mobo. You need a PSU rated to handle that and the 500 watt is not.

Also, I agree with the above, 2X1 Gb sticks of ram will give you the best performance, and you will ABSOLUTELY notice the difference in a game like BF2. It will cut your load times in half.

Also, I STILL argue to get a single 7900GT, it will outperform those TWO 7600's, but you got to do what you want.

Good luck on the build and come back and let us know how it worked out!:)

[PnyK1d]

hey guys got myself in a pickle, i thought i would have enough to buy a moniter w/ all my components, now i'm stuck between either sacrificing a new moniter or downgrading to 1 gig of ram to get a moniter. what do you guys think i should choose moniter or 2gb of ram?:confused:
BTW i got a old CRT 16" nec moniter.
1 more thing this HD will work on my ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148039
read on the asus forms that it is a known fact that you will not be able to get past the windows boot screen if you have a Segate Barracuda 7200.9 HD
the only way of fix this prob is to update the firmware on your hd. AND I DONT KNOW TO UPDATE, NOR KNOW WHAT FIRMWARE IS!LOL! so i plan on purchasing the one on the link. dont want to run into any trouble that i know ill have a hard time fixing.

here the link to the problem with using the Segate 7200.9 HD
http://support.asus.com/faq/faq.aspx?no=B978B828-6A67-CD7D-2DF3-AF25581E9274&SLanguage=en-us

Got my Mobo AND IT"S PACKED WITH ALL KINDS OF GOODIES, also got my raidmax scorpio case, IT LOOKS GREAT. Sending in rest of order on friday.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Id get the monitor and save up later for more ram, but thats just me..Its not like 1g is gonna kill you for the time being.

[PnyK1d]

is the new found hd good for my mobo?

[PnyK1d]

Dear mr Ferarri. you have finnally made me keel over to buy a 7900gt i looked at bench marks and it smokes the hell out of 2 7600gt in sli by 10 fps in almost every test. plus its a lot cheaper than buy 2 7600gt's. so i give you my thanks for making me more open minded, and teaching me that two isn's always better than one.

anyways what do you guys think of this moniter http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824009070

[Alaron]

That monitor looks fine, Acer makes good quality products. The hard drive you linked to is also fine. I would go with one with a 16MB cache for a bit of extra performance. Take a look at Western Digital drives if you can't find a suitable Seagate.

[PnyK1d]

what is the importance of a memory cache? can you teach/tell me why?

[Alaron]

The cache on a hard drive holds recently accessed information. So then that information loads faster because the harddrive loads it from that bit of ram instead of spinning the platters. More cache means more information, so it can load frequently used data faster. In the real world, you may not won't notice much of a difference, when the prices are similar, why limit yourself? :)

[jfk]

Dear mr Ferarri. you have finnally made me keel over to buy a 7900gt i looked at bench marks and it smokes the hell out of 2 7600gt in sli by 10 fps in almost every test. plus its a lot cheaper than buy 2 7600gt's. so i give you my thanks for making me more open minded, and teaching me that two isn's always better than one.

anyways what do you guys think of this moniter http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824009070

I don't think it was mrFerarri, but...................;) Glad you finally saw the light.:)

[Mr.Ferrari]

I don't think it was mrFerarri, but...................;) Glad you finally saw the light.:)

Lets have credit go to where its due.

Jfk's the man to thank :)

And that acer monitor looks pretty good, they have certainly improved quality over the years.

[PnyK1d]

Im Soooo Sorry THANK YOU JFK FOR MAKING ME SEE THE LIGHT, was really tired when typing that quote. Once again thank yo JFK.:D

[glc]

If you are in a cost pickle - just get an Asus A8N5X or A8N-E and a decent power supply, SLI cert not needed. That would save you around 75 bucks or so.

[PnyK1d]

Hey guys, Final questions before I put in Order @ newegg tommorow.

I was wondering if it would be worth it to buy a third party cpu fan cooler for my amd 64 3500.

heres what i was planning on buying
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835118118
wanted the led to match w/ my windowed case.

here is the final revison of my list.

MOBO: ASUS AN8-SLI Deluxe(got it already)

Case: Raidmax Scorpio "Black"(got it)

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817103931

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148039

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820220037

Graphics Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814130033

DVD Drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827135085

OS: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16837102059

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103533

Moniter: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824224007

CPU Fan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824224007

Keyboad: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16823107123

Let me know if anything is wrong. Thanks;)

P.S. Does anyone know if i can get cupons for newegg anywere?

[Freakitchen]

There's no reason to purchase an aftermarket CPU fan unless you're wanting to overclock the CPU, and certainly not for Blue LEDs. You will also void the warrenty on the retail-boxed processor if you don't use the bundled fan.

That said, if you DO want the zalman cooler for asthetics, then purchase the OEM version of your processor - it comes without the heatsink/fan and the warrenty.

FK

[Mr.Ferrari]

Well I mean as long as you dont ruin the thermal pad that comes with the stock heatsink, and leave it aside while you use the aftermarket one with additionally bought thermalpaste, I dont think you should have a problem witht he warranty.

Oh and that zalman does come with thermalpaste.

And if your going with that zalman for blue l.e.d thats fine. But I just wanted to add that there are some better coolers in the price range ;). But zalman would more then easily handle stock.

[jayb1234]

Wrong, once a warranty is voided, you can't just put a stock part back on and magically reinstate it.

[Mr.Ferrari]

But sorry for my misunderstanding, but how else are they supposed to know if you have used some other heatsink on the proc?

[glc]

Isn't it going to be suspicious when you send back an obviously used processor with paste residue on it and the thermal pad on the heatsink is untouched?

[nicolaus corelius]

what if you just "use" the stock heatsink so it looks like its been the only one used

[glc]

I've learned 2 valuable life lessons. First is never assume you are smarter than someone else. Second is when you try to cheat the system it can often come back to haunt you. You youngsters just haven't learned these lessons yet.

[jfk]

I've learned 2 valuable life lessons. First is never assume you are smarter than someone else. Second is when you try to cheat the system it can often come back to haunt you. You youngsters just haven't learned these lessons yet.

Oh yeah.

[nicolaus corelius]

its actually amd's and intel's lack of fairness that they havent considered making a "approved list" of heatsinks similar to the "thermally advantaged cases" intel has. my idea was more like sufragettes sneaking into voting polls, than little kids cheating the system:p

[PnyK1d]

Okay sent in my order should be expecting it wedsday:D

the only things i've changed is that i got this moniter
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824224007
because of the good reviews and popularity

[Freakitchen]

Looking at the reviews for that monitor, it appears that it doesn't ship with a DVI cable - common with budget screens. Make sure you order one separately to enjoy the best picture quality.

FK

[PnyK1d]

ooops:eek: forgot to order one, oh well guess i'll go down to bestbut and get me one, anyways there wouldnt be a real big difference would there between vga and dvi right?
im sure i can hold up until then.

newegg rocks my socks! man i put in an order at 11:18 am(CA Time) and it was shipped out of the warehouse at 12:45 am! to top it all off newegg gave me a free 1 year subscription to pc magazine for a year with my order, i will never order from any other online pc store, other than newegg.com:D

expecting my stuff on wed or thurs.

[minsonngo]

DVI is better than VGA for TFTs because they are digital and VGA is analog. A TFT displayes its picture digitally, pixel per pixel. Via DVI the panel gets data for each pixel, so the picture generated in the graphics card will match exact with the pixels on the panel itself.

Not so with VGA. First, the picture is generated digitally in the graphics card. Then it's converted to analog. In the TFT they will be converted again to digital (=> senseless twice conversion => quality loss), using the phase and the clock, and it'll be calculated which pixel should display what color. As the phase and clock can't be adjusted so precisely that a pixel of a picture generated by the graphics card will be displayed by the appropriate pixel on the panel. Means that the picture will be interpolated a little bit, which again means quality loss.

The electron cannons of the CRT need analog signals, that's why VGA is the best for CRTs and DVI would make no sense here.

RJ

.

[PnyK1d]

okay,i'll see to buy it sometime after i get my pc up and runnig and if the quality REALLY bothers me ill go and buy one. However minsonngo the conversion would be DVI to VGA. because the LCD has 2 ports one VGA And one DVI. so the conversion would only be a one shot deal.



anyways once i get my pc up and going i want to play a good game with great graphics and a good multiplayer. stuck between RTS and FPS, was thinking BF2, but not sure. any suggetions?

[Freakitchen]

Remember that your chosen video card hasn't got a VGA port - it has dual DVIs instead. If you want to use a VGA cable, then you'll have to use the DVI-VGA adaptor that should come with your card.

FK

[PnyK1d]

thank you, i was aware of that;)

[PnyK1d]

hey guys im'm building my pc right now and am wondering the jupersetting to use on my dvd rom drive. what is the difference beteen slave? master? cable select?

[Freakitchen]

If you are connecting the drive using an 80-wire cable (very fine ridges, blue connector at the motherboard-end), then jumper any drive you connect to it Cable Select. If you have only one optical, it should go on the end connector.

FK

[PnyK1d]

thanks guys for all your help, i finish my pc and its up and running!:D BOY IS IT FAST AS HELL, BEEN TRYING TO PLAY THE HITMANGAME THAT CAME WITH THE VID CARD, but for some reason it wont launch? any ideas? anyways gotta update all my drivers later. im gonna get bf2 tommorow. ill post pics later so you guys can see.

i also need some help making wires neat ill see w/ u guys after i post pics, if its good enough to cycle air to keep my pc cool.

thanks again guys, and especially you glc:D ;) :)

[LeftyAce]

Holy monkeys! I posted when I got to the bottom of the first page, not realizing that there were two more, and that everything I was commenting on was old news. Sorry.