Video upgrade for older system

[ChromWolf]

I'm currently looking into a video card upgrade for my primary system. It's now what I would consider older, and as I should really be focusing the money I've got right now on my automotive woes. ...That, and with my current system specs, I'm concerned I'd be blowing unneeded cash on a bottleneck with the system itself.

Mobo - Shuttle MN31L
CPU - AMD Sempron 2200+ (1.5 GHz) ((But see below))
Memory - Rosewill 512 MB PC2700
Video - Integrated GeForce 4 MX
PSU - FSP 300W

I think I've got an Athlon XP in a system a buddy handed me that's roughly equivalent to the Sempron I've got in there, only slightly better; I can't say what exact model it is, but it may be around 1.8 GHz in speed. Also, I've REALLY been pining for a GB of memory, and another Rosewill 512 PC2700 is really cheap right now.

Another important point--Although the mobo has an integrated GF4 video, one of the key selling points for my even buying a board with onboard video, let alone a mATX board, was that it also has an AGP 4x/8x slot.

I'd LOVE the chance to build a whole new system from the case up, but we're talking SLI with dual-GPU video cards, and the quad-SLI stuff is stable has been around a while (that should probably give a good idea of how far in the future this build would be). :P :) So, for now, it'd have to be an AGP 8x card.

My question is this: How far should I push the specs before it just won't gain me anything more?

For example, GeForce 7800 series is most certainly out of the question, but a 7600GS is fairly reasonable. I'm not sure about the current newegg-listed price for the 7600GT; I think that's getting out of my intended budget. But is even the 7600GS too much for my system--will it bottleneck elsewhere? Would one of the GeForce 6 series video cards, perhaps one with 8+ pixel pipelines, but at a much lower cost, be more my speed? ....What about the equivalent ATI cards? (I'm not trying to start the whole ATI vs. NVidia thing; and honestly, I wouldn't expect it from all the GREAT people here at PCMech... I've had both ATI and NVidia GPUs, and am perfectly okay with either, depending on which fits my particular specs and needs better) I'd like something with 256 MB, but also where that's not overkill in relation to the GPU. ...Is even that too much to expect for my now aging system? ...I'm not even looking for too many options; dual-monitor support, TV-Out, DVI-out would be nice and all, but nothing critical; at this stage, I'm just looking for gaming performance.

I play RPGs mostly (NWN2 is high on my list of games I want to be able to run using the upgrade), but some FPS. Grabbing Half-Life 2 and/or CS:S would be nice too. I'd sure love to finally be able to try Oblivion, and maybe even Fable - The Lost Chapters. The absolute most I'd like to spend is about $150; that's a little flexible, if it needs to be to get any performance increase, but the goal is to get something that will let me play what I want to for a couple years, and not upgrade my video with the best I can possibly get even for my meager budget unless that's what it absolute takes.

Does any of this make sense? Can someone give me some good advice? Thanks all!

...I have GOT to figure out a way to be less wordy..... wow. :P

[Spearball]

First of all you might have to upgrade your power supply depending what card you choose. And like you said a gig of ram would be usful if your gaming. I would say the 1.8 ghz cpu would be just a little slow on some games but im not too sure about sempron cpus. Wait for others responses.

[glc]

It would be worth it to upgrade - to get true DX9 support and to release shared ram back to the system. I'd spend the money on another 512 ram and a video card - and be careful, you do have a quality PSU but 300 watts doesn't go THAT far.

I'd look at a Nvidia 7xxx or ATI X1xxx card to get the latest generation. I don't think a processor upgrade would be worth it unless you already HAVE the processor - I believe the socket A Semprons are just relabeled T-bred core Athlon XP's. Research the Athlon you have, let's see exactly what it is and if it's compatible with your mobo.

[ChromWolf]

GOD I love this site. :) These are EXACTLY the kinds of posts I love reading!

I am a little worried about the PSU... it was purchased at just 300W a few years back to save some cash, and because it would do fairly well supporting my current system. Come to think of it, however, I'm not sure if it supports the newer video cards that require their own power lead; my case side isn't screwed on (just put in place), so I'll look in a bit.

I do, in fact, already have the CPU; it's basically a spare system I've got laying around, but it's not really any better than my current one, and is a Compaq-built, rather than my self-built. But hey, the price (that is, free) was definitely right. :) I'm 90% positive the CPU will work with my Mobo, and it will be an upgrade, but nothing much noticeable. Still, it's an Athlon XP instead of a Sempron, and I'm pretty sure it's got more cache, so it's something. No sense in not using it. Nothing to write home about speed-wise, but still.

It's good to know I should go with the GF 7xxx series (assuming I go NVidia)... I probably would be going with a low-end 7600GS model. I'm also looking at a hard drive upgrade (another reason my budget is so small), so I may be splurging today... :cool:

[blue60007]

I looked at a couple 7600GS's - one said 300W, another 350W with 18A on the 12V rail. Check the sticker on the side of the power supply and see what the 12V rating is. It's a solid brand, so that's definitely helpful

[glc]

It all depends what exact Athlon XP you have, as I already said. We have to compare both cache and FSB. How about pulling the heatsink and posting the numbers? Your Sempron is 333 FSB and has 256k cache. If that Athlon is 266 FSB I would not even bother, that would be a downgrade. The only XP's that have more than 256k cache are Bartons.

[ChromWolf]

Sorry, hadn't checked back in a while...

Confirmed. The Athlon is indeed a Barton Core. As Everest calls it, 333 FSB and 512 L2 cache. Athlon is a 2800, with a speed of about 2 GHz.

Looks like I'm switching processors when I get the chance! Thanks GLC, you're the greatest!

blue60007 - I don't know if I'll end up going 7600GS (though when I'm ready, I may have more of a budget, and they may have come down some, so who knows), and that may help as well. Otherwise, as I think I'm going to do the CPU swap tonight, I checked my PSU, and it does indeed say 18A on the +12V rail. Good to know! ...I spent a fair amount of time researching good PSU brands back when I bought this, so I'm glad I did.

Good deal! :)

[The_YongGrand]

Socket A Semprons have FSB333 and also, 256K cache. Other than that, it's just a rebranded/relabeled Athlon XPs back in 2004.

Generally, Semprons can game too - but be prepared for limited framerates. The older Semprons from the Socket As have fewer instructions set (SSE and 3DNow! only) but I don't know whether it'll influence the gameplay or not.

I have a Sempron 3000+ (Socket 754) and when playing HL2 with a normal videocard (nah, nothing better, the 7300GT only) - the FPS is around 18~30 only. Before that I used to have the Athlon XP 2400+ and with better clockspeed, I'm sure it'll go until 20~40 FPS if I have a good videocard. A faster processor with more cache will jolt up the FPS until 30~70 FPS. (With max settings, AA = 2x, AF = 2x).

How far you can upgrade? :D

Uh... try these:

1.) Put more RAM - generally speaking more RAM will make the system more responsive and less HDD trashing.

2.) A faster AGP graphics card, if you want to have, try the X1300 or X1600 PRO from the ATi. If you want an nVidia, make sure you get the 7600GS. If you are patient and willing to wait, maybe the 7300GT will be released. Try getting one of these. Any other 5xxx Geforces are not really suitable.

3.) Processor - if you manage to find an Athlon 2600+ in a garage sale, try to grab it. If not, stick to the Sempron or otherwise, use the Athlon XP 1.8GHz.

What do you think, ChromWolf? :)

[ChromWolf]

That's all review, pretty much. I knew exactly what I was buying back then, and for the price, I was pleased with what I got; no real complaints. At least back then, I wasn't terribly interested in running any of the games that REALLY needed better hardware than what I was buying, and on top of that, consider that I was coming from a K6-3 450 MHz!! I just needed an upgrade, and quick. I can and did game with my Sempron just fine; really, had I not remembered my little gift sitting next to me all this time, I'd still be using it none the wiser, and not really very interested in attempting to track down an Athlon XP Barton core. I'm just lucky I helped my brother's friend with his water-cooled system. :P :)

This CPU upgrade seemed to work just fine! I'm currently posting using it, and it's about where an Athlon XP 2800+ Barton should be. I may have noticed a slight speed increase, but it could be purely psychological. I'll probably be able to better test it once I load up some of the games I've got installed (which is nothing special, by today's standards). Otherwise, no worries so far.

I had two sticks of 256 MB DDR333 memory in this secondary computer I pulled the Athlon out of. I was pleasantly surprised when I found my motherboard had 3 memory slots instead of 2! I'd forgotten all about it, and figured uATX meant 2 memory slots. Unfortunately, however, the motherboard just doesn't seem to like those two sticks, regardless of whether my current Rosewill is in or not. So no memory boost, but still. So, I can just wait a bit longer to let my funds replenish (still have to look into fixing the car), and then pick up two Rosewill 512 MB sticks for a full 1.5 GB of memory! Not spectacular, but after that and the video, I'd have not too bad a system for what I paid for it!

I'll wait to see where my funds are at when I'm ready to buy the video card. Originally, I'd decided I didn't want to go with a 7600, but rather stick with a 7300, for the price. However, if I have enough cash, the 7600GS is the obvious choice. ...I've got no problems going with ATI, but I think I'll end up going nVidia, just because the mix of pixel pipelines, GPU speed, and amount of memory on the nVidia's seemed a bit better for the money. Again, when I'm ready to actually make the move and buy them, I'll go over the numbers again (as I'm sure they'll have changed) and see which seems the best option. It's entirely possible I'll post again to this thread asking if the 7600XY is any better than the 7600AB for the difference in cost, but we'll cross the bridge when we get to it. :)

[The_YongGrand]

If I'm not mistaken, a Barton 2800+ has 512K cache. That'll work even more better. :)

Maybe you can try at least AGP versions of 7300GT or 7600GS if you are going for the nVidia ones. Putting a 7800 will cause a serious bottleneck in the old machine.

If you want the ATi, go for the X1300 or the X1600 Pro. Both will do good in latest games, providing the settings not too maxed out.

I'm sure game framerates for your comp will be okay - 30~50 FPS I can guess if you have these video cards inside.

P.S: Try this - if you get the video card, and when you play the HL2 just in case - if you want to have good performance with better framerates, try to go inside the game settings, shut off the Anistropic Filtering and the Antialiasing. Then exit the game, right click and check the graphics settings in the desktop - try to play around with the AA and AF sliders and uncheck the "Application Controlled" box. I don't know - this will prevent conflicts. However, I would like some opinions about this, since I read this somewhere. :D

edit: Another one - I found out these HiS videocards for the x1300 Radeons - they are very optimized for the HL2 series. I haven't tried one of these yet.

[glc]

Why are you buying Rosewill ram? I think I'd go with a better name brand ram.