Not so new, but still want to know.

[marxr87]

Hey, I have rebuilt old PCs and added new components to my current PC alot. Now I am looking to build a top-of-the-line gaming PC where money is no object. I don't care if it can do anything but run the internet and play videogames...as long as it is the best at doing that. I want the best monitor, speakers (surround sound), keyboard, mouse and of course tower (videocard, hdd, psu, cpu, mobo...the works). Now, I have tinkered with computers often, but I don't know any real in-depth stuff. I have looked on this site and others, but I am lost. If I could be pointed in the right direction to building my comp that would be terrific. I'm confused on overclocking and alot of software issues. Basically, how can I build THE best gaming PC that: is easily upgradeable, has the fastest and most stable internet capabilities, has the best everything. Haha I know I'm being general, but I want the best and don't know where to start. I just got my bonus from the military and I want this computer to last a LONG time.

[Cricket]

What is your budget?

Do you want to build a AMD or INTEL based computer?

What's your time-frame?

:) Cricket

[David M]

If you want the fastest gaming computer possible then figure on spending around $10k. Are you still serious? It is probably better to pick up this months issue of CPU Magazine and Maximum PC Magazine. I could list you the parts verbatim from the magazine but its probably better to buy the magazine and to see what they did. They do have the fastest water cooled computer possible without going into the exotic stuff like reverse phase cooling or cooling using liquid nitrogen.

The downside? Computers like this depreciate faster than fresh fish. Save your bucks and go with a computer that is not the latest and greatest because next week...your's will not be the fastest possible therefore losing your bragging rights and you will down a few thousand bucks in depreciation alone. Its not worth it unless money grows on trees for you.

[dogdude16]

i think we could come up with a list that goes for 5 grand, and it be good

[marxr87]

Ok, ya no exotic stuff. And money is not really a factor..however, 10k...thats just ridiculous. I like dogdude's idea. Let's put a 5 grand cap on this motha'. Now when I say fastest, I understand technology is constantly advancing, so ya I don't want a 10k comp that will depreciate a few grand quickly because it isn't the fastest anymore. So, the fastest, witouth squeezing every single iota possible to make it fastest (1 more fps, something ridiculous like that). I don't care if it is intel or amd (I like amd, but it doesn't matter... I just want the best). Let's not start a war. So ya, there you guys go. The timeframe...not too important. I'm patient.

[Alaron]

Do you need the computor only, or do you need monitors, peripherals, etc?

For a highend gaming system, go with something like this:

CPU: Intel Conroe E6600 or higher.
RAM: 2GB DDR2-800
Motherboard: Asus P5W DH
Video card: Geforce 7950
Case: Anything you like
Power Supply: Antec 550w
Hard drive: Seagate 7200.10 series
OS: Windows XP

Should total up to well under $5G.

[dogdude16]

EDIT: i updated my list

the comp is 4000




PROCESSOR: C2D extreme $950 ( the best on the market right now)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115001

MOBO: ASUS P5B Deluxe $210
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131028

PSU: Thermaltake Pure Power $139.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153025

CASE: ABS Stealth $115.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811215002

VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon X1950XTX $500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814195024

HARD DRIVE: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 $95
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140

DVD BURNER: LITE-ON Black $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106013

OS: XP Home $90

RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) $310.00 if you want get 2 sets :) $620
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145034

SOUND CARD: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 Channels $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102188

[Alaron]

I would skip that video card dogdude. The expense doesn't really mean it is the best. FireGL cards are for professional environments, not built for gaming. Better to stick with Radeon and Geforce series cards.

No need for a Plextor drive. They are overpriced. A $40 Lite-On will be just as good.

As for a sound card, the Creative X-Fi series are the best right now.

Dogdude, your ram link isn't working.

[Cricket]

VIDEO CARD: $1,290 ATI FireGL V7350
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814195007The ATi FireGL V7350 is not a gamers video card, it's a workstation video card (for CAD or design work).

:) Cricket

[andper10]

There is no reason to get an ATI Brand Video Card when you can get the exact same card with the Sapphire (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102045) brand on it for $70 less. Also, that PSU looks like an overpriced product that would underpreform. I would put my vote in for this Xcilo GreatPower 500 Watt (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189012). It has a 140mm fan, 85% efficiency, SLI Certification, 3 12V rails, modular cabling, and active PFC for 94.99 plus shipping. Or if wattage is a concern, you can get the 550 Watt version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189006) (it has the exact same specs besides the wattage) for 104.99 plus shipping. I would also downgrade the processor a bit. I doubt that you would notice a difference between the C2 Extreme (2.93Ghz, 4MB Cache, $950) and the C2 Duo E6600 (2.4Ghz, 4MB Cache, $318). If you are stuck between them, you could get the C2 Duo E6700 (2.66Ghz, 4MB Cache, $524). Other than that, everything is looking good. I would look around on Newegg and find a case that you like. They have some amazing choices (like my clear acrylic one :D)

P.S.
Here are some of my speaker and monitor suggestions.
SPEAKERS:
Cyber Acoustics 45 Watt 4.1 (4 speakers, 1 subwoofer) $26 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16836150035)
Logitech 70 Watt 5.1 (5 speakers, 1 subwoofer) $60 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16836121118)
Creative Inspire 90 Watt 7.1 (7 speakers, 1 subwoofer) $87 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16836116153)

MONITOR:
Acer 8ms response time 17" Black monitor $160 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009070)
Acer 5ms response time 19" Black widescreen $180 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009091)
Acer 8ms response time 20" Silver widescreen $265 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009085)
Acer 5ms response time 22" Black Widescreen $326 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009094)
Acer 6ms response time 24" Silver Widescreen $680 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009061)

[marxr87]

Thanks guys, and yes I require peripherals haha. Those choices look excellent.

[David M]

The xclio 550 watt PSU is not going to work for quad graphics cards...which is what you want if you want the fastest gaming computer (within a $5000 budget) This is pretty much the only PSU on the market right now for a quad graphics card application and it retails for $500 http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=TC1KW4E It has 4, 6 pin PCI-E connectors and very clean, stable and accurate DC voltages.

You had better get a case with pleanty of room behind the PSU mount if you want to fit this PSU inside because it is deeper than the standard sized PSU. As for your case, he more 12cm fans your case has, the better because this will be generating a lot of heat with those quad graphics cards running. I would go for a great big Lian-Li unpainted aluminum case....you pick the model. Aluminum conducts heat better, a large case increases surface area to conduct heat and paint acts as a heat insulator...its minor, but it makes a tiny difference. This case will work: http://www.lian-li.com/Product/Chassis/Server_Full_Tower/V_Series/S_V_S_PC-V2000plus_2.htm

If you are going to get those cards, get a decent sized monitor as well...it is pointless to spend $5000 on a computer only to have to look at the game on a 21 inch monitor. Get a 24 inch or 30 inch monitor. Dell sells a 24 inch monitor for $800 and a 30 inch monitor for $1,600. Apple sells a 30 inch as well but as usual for Apple, it costs more ($2400). Monitors with black frames are easier on the eyes than monitors white frames anyway. I have a Dell 24 inch at home and it really brings you into the game.

Go with the ASUS P5N32 SLI SE Deluxe mobo. This way you can get the dual Nvidia cards and the Intel dual core extreme X6800. Go with the fastest dual graphics cards available... two of the Ge Force 7950 GX2's.

Seriously, I would go get the October issue of CPU magazine and look at the Falcon Mach 5 (Speed Racer?)....or go to their website which may show it.

Do you want to watercool? If you want the fastest, you should be able to overclock the hell out of it which will mean watercooling.

[marxr87]

Yes I do want to watercool it. These ideas are fanatastic. Thanks guys.

Edit: Question...could any game out there currently even take advantage of TWO 7950s? I guess what I am saying is...I want the best gaming pc (or close) but I want games to be able to take advantage of all the stuff I am putting into it currently. If a new game comes out and my comp can't handle it, I can upgrade to two. Maybe there is a game that can take advantage of two 7950s, but from what I got from reading articles...it performs like 2 7900s by itself.

[David M]

Lets see your "grocery list"... :)

[marxr87]

Alright, but I think don't think I made one thing clear. I could dump 10k on a comp, I could dump 15k. But...do I need to? I know that "technically" if I wanted the best I would. But, I figured I could get the best for less than that. What I mean is, can the human brain even register some of the differences in technology? Would I be able to notice a difference between 4gb of ram and 2? Do I need a terabyte of storage space? What I want to build is the latest and greatest...that I can tell the difference between. I want the minimum top-of-the-line. Where my brain wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between my computer and the next one up. So if I can be able to tell the difference between one and two 7950s, I will buy them. So this is the goal restated: I want the best gaming and internet PC available (no budget) with none of the hoopla. I don't need much storage space because I will do pretty much nothing but game on it. I don't have enough money to test out the differences between everything which is why I came to you guys. Currently, this is what I am thinking:

Case: PC-V2000BplusII
PSU: Turbo-Cool 1KW-Quad SLI
Mobo: ASUS P5N32 SLI SE Deluxe
CPU: 2.66Ghz, 4MB Cache
Video Card: GeForce 7950 GX2 (maybe 2?)
Monitor: Acer AL2416Wd 24" 6ms
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 16X DVD 48X CD-R
RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB)
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache

Not sure on rest...need ideas or can these be improved? Remember...noticeable improvements. Also, do you think ghosting would be an issue with that monitor? What about a physics card?

[David M]

Thats a pretty subjective question. It all depends on the user (you) of course. How much is an inverse log curve smaller return for the dollar worth for more speed and eye candy in a game? If your budget is unlimited yet you don't like the idea of wasting money for unnoticable gains then I would say don't get the absolute fastest. Get something that is a notch or two down from the absolute fastest. You pay a much higher premium for the fastest..for what?..a frame or two faster for perhaps a 20% to 50% higher price? To me the very best is not a necessity...just a nice luxury and bragging rights for a short period of time.

I see you changed pretty much all your components. Good, the choices you had were last months technology...LOL :D. Wait till you see the next generation of computers, it will make this computer look like a Ford Taurus aside a Ferrari Enzo...but I don't want to discourage you from buying today. :) Fortunately for us consumers, Moore's law is still alive and kicking.

Get a maximum of 2 gigs of RAM. Windows XP 32 bit is only able to utilize this amount of RAM...anymore is a waste. Don't bother with Windows 64. Very little software has ever been written for it which is really too bad in my opinion.

I noticed you picked the Acer over the Dell monitor. Were you able to find a comparison? Compare the refresh rates of the two monitors...it makes a difference when gaming. Dell is in the 6ms to 8ms range. The downside is at the highest resolutions, the Dell is limited to 60FPS which sometimes looks choppy when moving the mouse wildly.

I also noticed you have not picked out a hard drive. The WD Raptors are still the fastest but there are non 10,000 RPM drives that are very close in speed now. Given this, the Raptors may be a waste of money...they are pretty expensive per megabyte of space. If all you are doing with the computer is playing games then you do not need a huge amount of space. A 320 meg HD will work and you can always add more HD's in the future..its really easy. If you are going to store lots of photos or videos then you will need more.

I would stay away from RAID 0+1.....go with RAID 5 if you want RAID at all. Don't go with RAID 0 unless it does not bother you to lose everything. Buy a backup drive regardless of what kind of RAID you get...RAID is not fail safe in my own personal experience. RAID has been a pain in the arse for me and ultimately not worth the problems. My next computer will have one plain old 500 gig, 16 meg buffer hard drive backed up with an external drive.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Skip the P5N32, if your going intel get a proper intel chipset. And therefore a ati card if you wish to go crossfire. Nforce4 does not agree with intel.

And that 1kw pcpc is not worth it for the price. Nor do you need it. There are some better psu's for less that will get the job done very nicely. I.E powering crossfire/sli. But its still not a bad choice.

The dell 24'' line are some of the BEST and most favored monitors on the market for high res gaming. You cant go wrong with one of those. Expensive though.

[David M]

I don't see dual cards from ATI and the Nvidia duals worked fine on the P5N32 board in the Mach 5 build...so I don't see the problem. The 1000 watt PC Power & Cooling PSU is the only real PSU that will run those cards in quad configuration. Yes, $500 is expensive but that is the only choice right now.

$800 bucks is cheap for a quality 24 inch monitor...compare prices. It's pointless to have 4 graphics cards driving anythng smaller than a 24 inch monitor.

You wanted the best?...within reason

[Mr.Ferrari]

Good point..but thats a magazine review, Real world results will/are different. Theres a reason why these arent exactly selling out. Nforce4 boards have always had issues with intel. And they continue to. I had a buddy exchange his just due to this.
If your going intel stick to intel chipsets and ati. If you are that set on nvidia, keep with amd.

-The ATi X1950XTX is a single card from ati which beats the dual card 7950GX2.

-The 1KW is not a minimum to run quad sli. A single 7950GX2 consumes a equivalent amount of power as a single X1900XTX and a little less power then a sli'ed 7900GTs. Its not exactly hard to run these in dual card configs.

The pcpc is awesome, but in that kind budget, theres a few other/better choices to look into too. The first one comes to mind is Zippy.

Not saying its a bad psu. But its not worth 500bucks.

[marxr87]

:eek: And now we are getting in over my head. Alot of what you guys are saying is jibberish to me. But, can you really tell a difference between the 10000rpm and 7200 rpm hdd? Since I consider myself an amateur, can one of you guys give me a suitable build? Maybe I'm just stuck in war that can't be resolved, but like I said, I don't have to spare any expense. David voiced my idea perfectly, "If your budget is unlimited yet you don't like the idea of wasting money for unnoticable gains"... hit the nail on the head. So a good example build would be greatly appreciated since apparently I know even less than I thought I knew.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Your build was good. Just needs a few tweaks.

Case: PC-V2000BplusII
PSU: Silverstone ST85ZF (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817256007) or Enermax 1Kw Galaxy (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194008)orZippy 850W (http://store.myaopen.com/psl6850p.html)
Any of these will be MORE then enough. I'd personally go with the silverstone or zippy.
Mobo: Asus P5WDH (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131025)
CPU: C2D E6700 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115002)

Video Card: X1950XTX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102045) 2 if you so wish.

Monitor: Samsung, LG, Viewsonic, Dell, all good brands. Just dont pick anything less then 24''
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 16X DVD 48X CD-R
RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB)
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache

HDD: 10k rpm raptors just give a little more performance in window boots and somewhat in games. Otherwise not needed. If you wish to have a single raptor as your windows drive then go ahead.

[glc]

If you want Nvidia SLI for Core 2 Duo, wait a bit till the new chipsets are out and debugged.

[David M]

I looks like you have two choices marxr, depending on whether or not you believe the CPU Magazine article about the Falcon Mach 5 is factual or not. CPU Magazine tells it like it is. They have not sold out to their advertisers. I highly doubt a company like Falcon Northwest would sell a computer based on that board, CPU and those cards if it was going to be unreliable. That is the fastest watercooled computer made and you are looking for the fastest.

[marxr87]

Ok, the new list:

Case:PC-V2000BplusII
PSU:Turbo-Cool 1KW-Quad SLI vs ?
Mobo:ASUS P5N32 SLI SE Deluxe (I have to wait for my bonus anyway, will probably fix any bugs by then.)
CPU:C2 Duo E6700
HDD:Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache (Perhaps a raptor as main?)
RAM:CORSAIR XMS (2x 1GB) (which xms is best?)
Optical:LITE-ON Black 16X DVD 48X CD-R
Sound Card:Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
Video Card:GeForce 7950 GX2 (can add a second one) vs. crossfire?
Keyboard:?
Mouse:?
Lan:?
Monitor: Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW vs. Acer AL2416Wd 24" 6ms (cheaper)
Speakers: Logitech X-530 70 Watts 5.1 Speaker
OS: Windows XP Home
Anything Else??

Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Is there anything coming out soon that perhaps I should wait on? I probably will wait at least 2 weeks anyway (my bonus hasn't come in yet). Do you suggest getting all parts from newegg or are the other reptuable places I could aquire these parts or some of them? How would I go about water-cooling (new to overclocking)?

[Mr.Ferrari]

-X1950XTX crossfire beats quad sli
-1KW pcpc is not needed nor is worth it, its not a bad psu, if you still want it thats your choice.
-If you wanna go sli THAT bad wait until the Nforce 590 chipsets come out. Your just asking for trouble with the current board...
-I would go with the Dell if you can afford it. both are great monitors.

And lastly, watercooling is fine, but never ever buy a premade kit, always do it custom. I first suggest you build this pc and worry about the watercooling later. Both are two big jobs.

[dogdude16]

here is some good XMS ram for you http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145033

[marxr87]

Mr. Ferrari can you back up that statement about crossfire? This article seems to say differently...http://www.legitreviews.com/article/379/8/ and does anyone know when the next set of videocards are due out for Nvidia or ATI?

Also, do psu's needed to rated for SLI use? The psus you suggested say nothing about sli, but I don't know if it matters.

Also, does anyone know when Vista and Directx 10 are due out? I heard early next year...like first quarter. Now it seems silly to me to dump all this money in a Directx 9 system and video card when Direct X 10 and Vista will...supposedly...blow it away. Any links to some info would be much appreciated.

[glc]

That's why you could just build with a $200 or so single card now, and upgrade to Vista and a DX10 card next year.