It's Time (new build, help requested)

[greg20]

Alright.

I've had enough of my P4 2.6 Ghz w/6600GT. It's served me well, and it'll continue to be my backup PC (giving away my current backup/flight sim 'extra' PC, a PIII 800), I got my self-required 3 years out of it, so it's time for the new one.

Here we go. My budget is $2500.

I need pretty much everything but a monitor (keeping my Samsung 204b, and another one possibly on the way, so I want to be able to run them simultaneously). I also don't need a wireless NIC or speakers. My speakers (Creative Inspire 6.1 6600) have three connectors to my current Audigy 2, so I'm assuming that today's onboard sound is sufficient for something like that?

It's been a while since I've built a gaming PC for myself (2003) so I'm looking for some help since you all are the experts. Thanks again for the help some time back on the print server I built, it's working great.

I don't care much for case looks, water cooling, etc. I just want something as fast, stable, and high quality as I can get for my budget. I do prefer quieter components, but that takes a backseat to performance and stability.

This PC will be for Flight Simulator 9, general everyday usage, other gaming probably, and Flight Sim X, although I'm aware that no matter what I buy today probably won't be good enough for 'highest quality' FSX. :) I also do some photo editing with Adobe Photoshop Elements, and general productivity/internet tasks. I'm guessing I'll be using XP Pro OEM for now and then upgrading to Vista.

I've always used Intel but I'm thinking about giving AMD a try and I've heard that it's the way to go right now.

Can someone get me started with a suggested parts list to work from?

Thanks.

[newbuilder14]

No AMD is not the way to go right now. Intel is with their new line of Core 2 Duos that blow by anything AMD has to offer. And yay for Flight Sim., I love that game... if only I knew what a nav course was. :)

[Alaron]

Agreed that the Intel Core 2 Duo is the way to go.

Heres a list to get you started:

Motherboard: Asus P5B or P5W DH
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 or higher depending on budget
RAM: 1GB DDR2-800.
Video card: Radeon X1950XT
Hard drive: Seagate 7200.10 series
PSU: Antec TruePower 2.0 550w
Case of your choice
Opticals: LiteOn DVDRW.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Cpu: Conroe E6600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115003) $317.99

Mobo: Asus P5WDH (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131025) $249.99

Memory: 2gb Corsair XMS DDR2 800 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145034) $308.00

Video/GFX: X1950XTX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102045) $429.99

Hdd: Seagate 250gb 7200.10 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148144) $79.99

Powersupply:

Enhance 500W (http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PS-E5150GH&c=fr&pid=d826a2141f06c28c9f438f3b90cd838593194ea53604d3ef4dea9cc771c8ad72#) $67.00

Seasonic 500W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151024) $119.99 <--quietest psu in the market

FSP 500W Blue storm (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104934) $89.99

Choose whichever you like best.

Case: Pick your choice here, although some good brands to look out for is antec, codegen, coolermaster, aerocool, thermaltake, lian li, silverstone, sunbeam, chenming.

Optical: Lite on dvdrw (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106013) plextor and nec are also good brands. $32.99

Depending on case and what psu you choose, thats around ~$1500

[greg20]

Wow, fast and excellent suggestions so far, thanks guys.

Guess my "AMD is currently better" info is a bit outdated. Hadn't even heard of the core duos, although I haven't been looking either.

I'll take a look at things and put together a proposed build and report back in this thread. :)

[newbuilder14]

Yeah well you were right in a sense. About 2 months ago AMD was the better option because they were cheap and C2Ds were not really out yet.

[greg20]

Alright, I have a question.

Can you explain why you recommend the P5WDH with a single video card over the Asus P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe Motherboard with 2 cards in SLI?

Would I get better performance with the P5WDH and the X1950XT than say the P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe and 2 7900 GTs in SLI?

[Mr.Ferrari]

First of all, you should never cross nforce4 and intel, instability issues galore.

And X1950XTX is currently the most powerful card on the market. And yes it will beat two 7900Gt's in sli. (As far as pure performance goes, with any dual card setup you do get the advantage of more eye candy features)

Right now the most cost effective way to get max performance for those who are looking for it is Ati's crossfire. Amd or intel.

The p5wdh has the capability of crossfire, if you ever do wish in the future to add another card, you can. Otherwise X1950XTX will do you good for a while.

[greg20]

Great, very helpful. Thanks.

[whubbard]

Does the X1950XTX beat the 7950GX2 ????
The 7950GX2 has 1gb ram, and 512bit, while the X1950XTX has only 512mb ram, and 256bit.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Suprisingly yes. The gx2 beats it in some of the lower res tests, lower IQ tests or more OpenGL biased benchmarks. But when you crank up those super high resolutions or very high eyecandy its suprising that a single, cheaper card from ati is beating that GX2.

Not to mention with an ATi card you have the capability to do crossfire.

Both have their disadvantages and advantages.

[greg20]

Alright, here we go:

Case:
LIAN LI PC-60BPLUSII Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811112100) $119.99

PSU:
Thermaltake toughpower W0104RU ATX12V/ EPS12V 650W Power Supply - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817153034) $154.99

Mobo:
ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131025) $249.99

CPU:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6700 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115002)$524.00

RAM:
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145034) $308.00

Video Card:
ATI 100-435843 Radeon X1950XTX 512MB GDDR4 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814195024) $499.99

HDD:
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148140) $94.99

Optical:
LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black ATAPI/E-IDE Model SHW-160P6S-04 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106013) $32.99

OS:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16832116059) $139.99


A few things regarding the video card. The X1950XTX looks to be the best single-card solution right now. It also has Crossfire capabilities (assuming the master is easy to find when it comes out). I'm not really sure I'd end up going that way though. I want something good until next summer when the DX10 cards should be out and start falling in price. I can't see $1000 on an SLI/Crossfire dual-card setup right now with DX9.

Also, any reason why the ATI-branded card is ~$70 more than the Sapphire card?

What do you think?

[newbuilder14]

I might change that power supply to something like Seasonic or OCZ GameXtreme 700w.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Suprisingly these new Toughpower units from thermaltake are actually quite good. Just as good as the seasonic or OCZ.

I'd Personally would go with something seasonic or ocz as newb suggested, Just due to the plain fact that Thermaltake has crappy service.

[greg20]

Thanks for the replies, I'll change to the OCZ.

What about the case - is a mid-tower enough for everything (the PSU looks pretty big)?

I seem to have more crammed into my mid-tower now anyway. The only thing I'd be adding to this is a D-Link DWL-G520M wireless NIC that I already have and is known to work in this location (if the onboard wifi isn't good enough). I have the D-Link DI-634M MIMO router that goes along with those NICs.

Also going to be using my current SnycMaster 204B and an old 17" CRT (for occasional extra real estate for non-graphics-intensive flight sim functions) until I pick up another LCD at some point. And I'll be using my current keyboard, mouse, speakers, webcam etc.

Besides that stuff, are there any compatibility issues in general or anything like that that I need to be on the lookout for, or am I about good now?

Thanks for your help.

[Sunset]

I paid only $80 for a Seagate 7200 RPM, 120 GB HD six months ago, and now the same drive with twice the capacity is selling for the same amount?

Say it ain't so!

:)

[greg20]

I paid only $80 for a Seagate 7200 RPM, 120 GB HD six months ago, and now the same drive with twice the capacity is selling for the same amount?

Say it ain't so!

:)

I'm pretty sure that's what happens. :)

[Mr.Ferrari]

Also, any reason why the ATI-branded card is ~$70 more than the Sapphire card?


Just different manufactures, same card. Suprsingly sapphire makes most of ati's cards. Id highly suggest the sapphire.

What about the case - is a mid-tower enough for everything (the PSU looks pretty big)?

It shouldnt be an issue.

[greg20]

Just different manufactures, same card. Suprsingly sapphire makes most of ati's cards. Id highly suggest the sapphire.


Alright. So, since they're the same card, the 1550 Mhz memory speed on Newegg for the Sapphire is incorrect (the ATI-branded one says 2000 Mhz)?

Thanks.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Yes the sapphire one is incorrect..X1950xtx's have a 2khz memory clock.

[greg20]

Thanks, just wanted to make sure they were all the same. That'll save me 80 bucks over the ATI one.

[greg20]

Here's what I went with:

Qty. Product Description Total Price
Item(s) shipped from NJ Tracking Number:
1 SAPPHIRE 100177L Radeon X1950XTX 512MB GDDR4 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814102045
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $429.99

1 LIAN LI PC-60BPLUSII Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811112100
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $119.99

1 OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817341002
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $149.99

1 CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail
Item #: N82E16820145034
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $308.00

2 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular Recording) ST3250620AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148144
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $149.98

1 LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black ATAPI/E-IDE Model SHW-160P6S-04 - Retail
Item #: N82E16827106013
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $32.99

1 Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16829102188
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $121.99

1 Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6700 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819115002
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy $524.00

1 Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM
Item #: N82E16832116059
Return Policy: Software Return Policy $139.99

Item(s) shipped from TN Tracking Number:
1 ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131025
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $269.99


I'll report back how it goes!

[greg20]

Just wanted to update this thread, as I just remembered I promised that I'd report back. Guess I've been having too much fun with it and forgot for a little while. :)

The build went together great -- thanks everyone for your help!

I'm enjoying it very much. I had a few issues. The P5W DH CD would not correctly copy the Intel RAID drivers to the floppy. I read of others having this issue as well. The solution is to reboot with the CD in the drive and the drive set as the first boot device in the BIOS, allow the CD to boot with its FreeDOS, and then use the prompts there to write the floppy.

Also, I had to RMA my memory as I was getting some BSODs and random program lockups, etc, and I ran a Memtest and found a bad area on one of the sticks around 800 MB or so. Replacement RAM passed with flying colors and things seem fine with it.

Finally, after replacing the RAM, I was still having issues in my "normal" boot (I dual boot XP; one 'clean' boot for Flight Sim and the other boot with all my tray apps etc for normal everyday usage). I thought that perhaps something was corrupted upon XP install, since I had installed with the "bad" RAM (unknown to me at the time), so I reinstalled XP, and that didn't help anything. After more Googling, I finally traced the issue to DLLML.EXE that the Creative X-Fi loads. Apparently it has a tendency to cause issues and it's hard to kill the process to get XP to shut down. The solution there was to uninstall, reboot into safe mode, clean the rest of the leftover Creative junk with Driver Cleaner Pro, and then reboot and reinstall with the "Minimal/Gamer" selection instead of "Full". And that's why I wasn't experiencing the issue in my Flight Sim boot -- I had installed that from the beginning as "minimal". I went for the Full install in my regular boot since I figured, I paid for this, I'm going to at least give the Creative software a try. :)

And I think that's about it. Thanks again, very pleased with the system.

-Greg