Heat Warnings!!!

[whubbard]

My Asus PC Probe is getting made at me because my MB temperature is 48C, and my CPU fan RPM is 1875. The MB was set at a threshold of 45C, and I set my RPM alarm at 1815, because it was 1650RPM + or - 10%. Should I be worried?

Also, I would like to get 2 80mm case fans. The fans dont need to be flash (I would actually prefer them to be black, and simple. They just need to have 4 pin connectors, and blow an INSANE amount of air. I do not care at all how loud they are, what 80mm fans blow the MOST air?

~Thanks~

ps. My MB temp might be a bit high due to my awful cable management, which I am trying to take care of. Here are some photos of the build, and my poor management: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=168344

[Mr.Ferrari]

1. Go into your bios and turn off q-fan.

2. Recheck temps with speedfan or everest.

3. Your case has 2 120mm fans, one in the front and one in the back. And has 2 80(90?) mm fans in the top and on the top rear. Are you thinking of replacing those, or are these 80mm for different purposes?

4. Not really pertinent to this, but one tip, that fan you have up there by the powersupply would help more if it was flipped, so it blows fresh air into the psu, rather then starving it.

5. What are your complete specs?

[TwoRails]

... The MB was set at a threshold of 45C ... Why do you have it set so low?

[The_YongGrand]

Give a limit to at least 60 degrees. I thought the fan speed will increase fully once it reached the specified point?

[whubbard]

I'm using everest to check the temperatures:
MB: 46C
CPU: 32C
CPU Core 1: 47C
CPU Core 2: 47C
GPU Ambient: 49C
(It wouldn't tell me the rest because of [Trial Version])

Before running this test, I did do a bit of cable management, but it was very basic. Also I am looking for 90mm...thanks for noticing Ferrari. Also why would I want to flip it, the way my case is, the power supply doesn't seem to get 'starved'. both of the fans seem to easily get a good amout of air. Also the threshold was set to 45C by Asus, not me. Also NO fans other than the CPU fan, are controlled by my MB. I am using a rheobus at full power all of the time for the 120mm, and the two current 90mm go right to the power supply.

Any suggestions on good 90mm fans?

[flanzig1]

I would double check the direction of air flow on all of your existing case fans. Back and top fans should be exhaust and lower front fans blow-in.

[Mr.Ferrari]

These sunons are cheap and loud.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/92sukddobabe1.html

What is your motherboard model? Im gonna assume is a 975x. Those temperatures are a bit in the higher area, but no where near dangerous. I would be worried if it goes above 50.

Otherwise another good mod that people have been doing is just screwing in a 40-50mm fan on the northbridge heatsink.

This done by removing the sticker on top of the asus northrbridge, (becareful and keep it handy if you ever need to use the warranty for the board) and just screwing in a small fan on top of it. (the fins will hold the screws).

Your choice, but my personal advice? I would highly suggest against the high power 90mm fans. You already have enough negative pressure in your case. There is less air coming in then coming out. Which can be good-to an extent.

[whubbard]

The sunon looks good...thanks.

Yes, I have the 975x, and when I just checked it now...50C!!! and the GPU is 53C!!! ...I think the GPU is seriously heating up the motherboard. I don't think I'm going to put 40-50mm fan on, becuase I doubt it would fit. My infinity, and 1950XTX take up a lot of space.

Since I just noticed the fact that it is getting a little bit hot...what about this fan:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999613

I would put 2 in and they would add a whole lot of negative pressure. Would it be too much?

EDIT: It is now 52C, but then again I am sitting in a loft, with the heat on, and it is getting hot in here.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Oh lord, lol, those are vantec tornados. That is 100cfm+ of packed into a 90mm devil. It is one of the loudest fans available.
Im willing to bet that one of those fans push more air then all your case fans combined.

Yes it will very much create too much negative pressure. Which will lead to heavy dust creation. This isnt too much of a problem, but when weighing the effectiveness of lowering temps..It isnt going to help.

What I say is, to lower your motherboard temps get some more direct airflow. This can be done by upgrading your 120mm front and rear fans. Im assuming since their blue led, your still using stock thermaltake fans correct?

Some heavier duty 120mm fans would help much more then replacing 90mm fans would.
If your interested I can link some up..

[whubbard]

I have replaced the front with a Aero Cool fan, (the one with 16 blades), but yes the one in the back is still a stock thermaltake, as are the two 90mm. Should I get another aero cool. (remember...i love my LEDs...hehe). And then stick the two sunons in on the top and back.

Also, do you really think i should flip the top fan over two blow air in....its just going to blow the hot air from the PSU and rear 120mm back in.

I would like it to use 3 pin connectors, or have a RPM controller, now that I think about it...the sunons have it :)
Or i could always get an adapter.

[Mr.Ferrari]

First of all, about the fan flipping, That was my bad, I was thinking of my old case (same as yours) where I had made a duct..nvm. Just keep it the way it is.

Ok...Now it will help you MUCH more if you just replace the rear 120mm with one of more desirable speed. Now you wont get the most best or highest performance fan with leds, but If your interested I can link up some possible canidates.

About the 90mm. If your going to do it then just get one. And replace the upmost top 90mm with it. Do not replace the 90mm beside the powersupply.

[whubbard]

Well...the thing is...the one by the powersupply is having some issues, and need to be 'jump started'! Why not just replace them both?
Also 120mm canidates would be welcomed? LED are preffered, but if I have to sacrifice a lot of performance for a few LEDs...ditch 'em!

[Mr.Ferrari]

First of all, Is the one by the powersupply connected to your fan controller? (sorry if I missed this being said before) If so, is it on full power?

On the fans...
Thermaltake Smart Fan (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2429/fan-115/Thermaltake_120mm_Blue_LED_Smart_Fan_A2018.html?tl=g36c15s518)
Comes with a fan controller. Which you probally dont need seeing as you already have one. But this is the fastest blue LED fan I could find. Pumping out at maximum 93cfm.

Aerocool (http://www.svc.com/120x25mmfans.html)
Your already familiar with these. Go down to the fans which say "89" cfm. Those are the highest performing aerocools. I really have had no experiance with these fans so I can say how much of that 89cfm is true.

[whubbard]

1) No, the one by the power supply is connected to the PSU, however it is connected through another cable splitter.

2) I feel as though that thermaltake is what came with my case...but I know its not.

3) Yeah, I think I will pick up the AeroCool for my rear fan. (do you think the extra 4cfm will matter)

4) Ok so I'm going to put another 89cfm Aerocool in the back, and two sunons, one on the top, one in the back. Will that be ok?

[Mr.Ferrari]

1. Well just to double check. See what happens when its just directly connected without a splitter if possible. Just to rule it out.

2. No, its a much higher performance one, as youve said.

3. Not really a thing of 4cfm. I know the thermaltake will well push the full 93cfm. Although on the aerocool...im not so sure. Ive never had any experiance with them. In the end go which ever you like the best.

4. That sunon for the top is fine. You will probally want to make sure there is a space for it on your rheobus. You might wish to quiet it down when not gaming or the such. To each his own.

About the one next to the powersupply. If it is truely faulty replace it with this:
Vantech Stealth (http://www.petrastechshop.com/92vastcafan.html)
It is a quiet oriented fan pushing 28cfm. This is more then enough in that area. Trust me, any more fannage over there will not help at all with temperatures. Might actually hurt your powersupply when causing so much turbulence.

[whubbard]

Ok, thanks Ferrari !!
People at NewEgg seems to say it pushes a fair bit of air. I guess I will trust them for once.
Ok so...
1) Aerocool 120mm
2) Sunon 92mm
3) Vantech 92mm
4) 3 Pin extender (x3)

[Mr.Ferrari]

Looks good to me.

One more thing..which aerocool fan do you already have? Are they the 89cfm versions?

[whubbard]

Yes...the one in the front is this fan http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835129245, which I am going to put in the back as well. (If you are asking this as relating to the negative airflow in the case, I will let you know that the top and bottom of this fan are covered my my two HDs.

[Mr.Ferrari]

No no, just for pure curiousity. If you had some of the lower cfm versions. I was just gonna suggest to try out the 89 cfm on the front and see how what changes you see.

I see you already have that so nvm. :)

[whubbard]

OK, i'll order those now, and put them in on Friday. Hopefully the temps will drop. The other problem which i have to deal with is the fact that I've set up this computer in my loft, which is always increadibly hot (heat rises up to it). So when I have a starting temp always in the 80's and then this under a desk which could hold in the hot air...i'm probably just asking for issues.

[whubbard]

Ive now realized that I fan fan filters on the fron tof my case. I dont care about LED. what is a very POWERFUL 120mm.

[Cricket]

what is a very POWERFUL 120mm.This one (http://www.svc.com/fba12g12u.html)is very powerful. Extremely noisy too.

:) Cricket

[Mr.Ferrari]

My favorite 120mm X 38mm fan is the Sanyo Denki San Ace (http://www.petrastechshop.com/12x38sadesan.html)

These fans are absolute gems, they were in high demand a year ago, but the problem was nobody would stock these Japanese made fans. You could only see them once in a while thorough people who would buy them in large quantites. These used to go for 20-25 dollars a pop.
Petras is the only place I know who stock them.

They undervolt really well and have the best noise/performance ratio.

What cricket suggested is also one hella of a fan too. BUT make sure you get the 2pin to 3pin adapter if you do go for one of those panaflo's.

Some other good 120mm x 38mm fans:
Delta SHE (http://sidewindercomputers.com/de12trblhisp.html)
Sunon KDE (http://www.petrastechshop.com/12x38sukddob.html)

!!!!!! Before you buy any of these 38mm wide fans. MAKE sure you can fit them. In the front of your case you might need to double check to see if these will fit between the drive cage and front bezel. If they wont...

120x 25mm STANDARD high speed fans:
Sunon (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49&products_id=3184)
Thermaltake Smart Fan (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2513/fan-214/Thermaltake_120mm_Smart_Case_Fan_II_A2029.html?tl=g36c15s60)

[whubbard]

Hmm...thats out of stock. The looks powerful as well: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999344

What do you think about that one?

[Cricket]

Extremely crazy 120mm fan. (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/de12tfexhisp.html) 220 CFM, 65 dBA. Make sure to wear your hearing protection when sitting near a computer with one of these inside. Oh, and don't plug this one into the motherboard either.

More 120mm fans. (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/120mmfans.html)

:) Cricket

[whubbard]

hmm...ok...Does anybody know if the intake on the front onf the Thermaltake Kandalf can fit a 120mm x 38mm (I don't think it can)

I guess at this point the thermaltake is my preffered option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999122

Do you think you guys can find a good 125x25 fan? So far the best I have found is this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999344
(is it reliable? (and its white...which is awful))

With these changes I would have:
173 + PSU blowing out.
110 (With dust filter) blowing in.

(Those numbers dont look too balanced :/)

[Mr.Ferrari]

I used to have an armour case, which the kandalf is based off of, (just has newer front and different materials). I believe theres a hard drive cage in which you must fit the fan in front of. I think it would work if you just unscrewed the hard drive cage (if your using one), and just pushed it back a little bit.

On the fans, well performance is in the 38mm fan divisions. But those fans are ok too. There are 3 things too look at when considering a fan.

1. Static pressure- Yeah sure your fan can push 100cfm, BUT how much of the cfm will still exist if theres a blockade? Usually this is important when putting a fan on top of some kinda of heatsink. For case fans usually doesnt make a big difference. But its still a factor..

2. Quality of fan and its bearing- There are two kinds of bearings for fans. Ball and Sleeve. For quiet I like sleeve bearing fans. They are the old tried and true mechanisms. Although they have a shorter lifetime vs. ball bearing fans. Also some low quality fans will make annoying noises and will seize up (stop working) after a while. Quality fans also tend to react better to undervolting (such as through a fan controller).

3. Noise and truthful CFM Ratings-Alot of manufacturers really just plain lie on the dba or cfm of a fan. Industry testing varies. Thats when you go by the reputable name of a manufacturer. Manufacturers that always report a truthful sum are, Panaflo, Sunon, Sanyo Denki, NMB, Yate Loon, Papst. For starters.

-Keeping this in mind, between the two fans, I would prefer the silverstone. Although I have no experiance with it. The smart fan series from thermaltake have been proven really well! They are the only thermaltake fan I ever consider. All the rest tend to be shoddy.

That balance of fannage is FINE. Negative pressure is good, but to a limit. Also remember the front of your case is perforated.

*One last piece of advice. I highly suggest you dont pull your hair out for your northbridge. The temps you should worry about is your cpu and gpu. Northbridge chipsets can run hot without losing any stability. ;)

[whubbard]

That balance of fannage is FINE. Negative pressure is good, but to a limit. Also remember the front of your case is perforated.

Would having only 93 CFM in break that 'limit'? Also, I only have 4 perforated slots, 3 of which have the fan right behind it, only one is really free.

I highly suggest you do pull your hair out for your northbridge.

Wait...Do you mean DON'T pull your hair out?

[Mr.Ferrari]

Would having only 93 CFM in break that 'limit'? Also, I only have 4 perforated slots, 3 of which have the fan right behind it, only one is really free.


I think it should still be ok. Will you seriously be keeping that 90mm sunon beast at full speed? Even then..it should be fine..This is something thats found out through trial and error...everybody's opinion and situations differ.

Wait...Do you mean DON'T pull your hair out?
LOL! Yes! Dont pull your hair out :P

I guess I shouldnt be giving advice while in bed with flu :(
:D :D

[whubbard]

Hope you feel better, but your advice is always welcome.

All of my Fans will be on Full Speed Unless the temps are so low they don't need to be. Also, I guess I just would like a bit of clarification. Will the Thermaltake cause the temps to be higher than the Silverstone would. Like 1C or 5C?

~thanks~

[Mr.Ferrari]

Eh well probally through sensors you might notice a 0c temp diff. Like I said..it can be hard to tell.
Both should be near equal performing. (assuming at top speeds). Go with whichever one you like better.

[whubbard]

Ok thanks! I'm getting the thermaltake then (love my LEDs)
:)

[newbuilder14]

You really can't say beacause it all depends on the airflow. Try some wire management and try to make the air all blowing in one direction (front --> back). This should help your temps. Plus, your temps are not that bad.

[whubbard]

The air blows in one direction, and there is a fair bit of wire management...i could try some more...but i have a LOT of wires in my case!
Can somebody recomend what good temps would be for my system?
Asus P5W duluxe:
Intel Core Duo x6800:
ATI x1950xtx:
RaptorX:
Seagate 7200.1 320gb:

(I believe those are the only places that have temperature sensors)

[Cricket]

Can somebody recomend what good temps would be for my system?Don't go crazy worrying about the fans and the temps...if the computer is running stable then all is fine.

:) Cricket

[Mr.Ferrari]

Asus P5W duluxe:
Like I said before, try to keep below 50c. 975X runs alot cooler then 965.
Intel Core Duo x6800:
Keep below 70c
ATI x1950xtx:
Im not too familiar with the new series, they however do take the same power consumption as the old x1900xtx, but they have a newer, more efficient cooler. So try to keep this under 80c.
RaptorX:
Keep under 50c. Raptors do tend to run hotter then normal drives.

Seagate 7200.1 320gb:

Same as above, under 50c. 45c being optimal.

[whubbard]

:D

Thanks

[nokiafan05]

What is a idle optimal temp for a Socket AM2 Amd 64 athlon 3400+ ?

[Mr.Ferrari]

There is no optimal temp persay. Max load for these new am2's I would say would be best fit under 60-63.

Idle..I mean if its idling at 50-55c..then you have issues.

[nokiafan05]

It was getting close when I closed up the case and only had a case fan and the cpu fan going. It got hotter and hotter in the case. I think its my hard drives that are kicking off the heat. I ended up taking the side panel off to help it cool off.

[newbuilder14]

I disagree that idling 50-55C gives means you have a problem. Maybe for AMD, but never for Intel.

[clroberts]

I have a thermaltake volcano 9 that I keep at full speed. Runs at around 5300 RPMs. Might be a little loud, but it keeps it cool.

[Cricket]

I disagree that idling 50-55C gives means you have a problem. Maybe for AMD, but never for Intel.Depends on which processor is involved. My 2.8GHz P4 Northwood idles at 32C and has problably never even seen 50C ever. My wife's 3.0GHz P4 Cedar Mill idles at 42C and does probably go over 50C under load.

I built a computer for a friend a few years ago with a 1.4GHz AMD T-Bird and that thing idled at 49C with the stock HSF. We put a Thermalright HSF with a Delta Black Label fan (sounded like a small vacuum cleaner) and got the thing to idle at 42C. He eventually got tired of the noise and had me build him a new computer a year later with a 2.26GHz P4 with the stock Intel HSF and Panaflo L1A 80mm case fans. Can barely tell that thing is running.

:) Cricket

[TwoRails]

I disagree that idling 50-55C gives means you have a problem. Maybe for AMD, but never for Intel.As I mentioned in the other thread, newbuilder14, I've had two identical builds on my bench at the same time that have read as much as 15°C different from one-another. 50-55 is Not the "kiss-of-death" for AMD that so many like to say it is. I have builds out there that have idled out there at those temps for many years.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Idling at 50-55c with a typical amd processor, isnt too good, thats correct, because your gonna probally be loading up at 60plus. For intel however, its perfectly fine.

For amd. Most single cores are good until 65-70c. Dual Core amd X2's are good until 63c. And FX series are good until 58-60c.
AMD opterons are good until 75-80c. And the old barton XP's are good until 85c.

For intel. Single cores are good until 80c. Pentium D 9xx are good until 73c, and 8xx are good until 78c.
Core 2 duo's are good until 75c. And Pentium M's are good until 95-100c.

Im talking about maximum threshold temperatures. Motherboard sensors would vary. But not to the point I would disregard a reading of 70c. Thats what they are good for. Telling the difference between overheating, and stable temperatures.

[whubbard]

Hey, THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP.

My temps have droped a lot.
The Processor now stays around 31-33 (it bounces between them)
The Mother Board now stays around 41-42 (again it bounces between them)

All of this was after loading up...with about a 30% load on the processor.

[Cricket]

Exactly what did you do to improve the CPU and system temps?

Weird how the motherboard temps are higher than the CPU temps.

:) Cricket