Rookie builder needs help

[astronut1885]

Hello all. I'm a newbie to these forums and to computer building. I'm in the process of bringing together all the components to rebuild my POS Dell 4600C narrow tower into a decent gaming machine. Unfortunately, I don't have all the money I'd like to do it, so I'm working with some of the existent components. Here's what I have (or have on the way) so far:

-Pentium 4 Prescott 3.0 ghz (replaced a 2.4 in the Dell that I dropped while cleaning the system :rolleyes: )
-Asus P4C800-E Deluxe Rev. 2.0 Mobo. (intel 875 chipset, supposedly best 478 mobo)
-512mb (2x256) RAM I put in the dell a while back
-2GB (2x1GB) G-skill PC DDR SDRAM PC3200
-XClio "Twin Engine" ATX tower (looks like a jet engine, love this case, has 2 25cm fans!)
-Cooler Master "Jet 4" CPU cooler w/ copper heatsink (wildest looking cooler, love it too)
-Cooler Master Aerogate 3 fan controller system
-BFG Tech GeForce 7800GS 256mb GDDR3 AGP 4x/8x (best AGP card from what I unerstand, no PCI-E on my mobo :( )
-Ultra X-Connect 500w PSU (customizable cabling system, all UV and round cables)
-2x Lite-On 20x DVD-R DVD Burners
-Creative Sound Blaster 7.1 channel PCI interface Audigy 4 SE soundcard
-Various Thermaltake round IDE cables to replace the ribbons
- IBM Deskstar 180GXP 80gb ATA harddrive (currently running on the dell)
- Cooler Master HDD cooler
- IBM card reader (for my SD cards)
- various smaller case fans as needed and U/V LEDs for the good looks.

I've done lots of reading on how to assemble a computer. As far as the physical aspects, I'm not worried (I'm a mechanic, good with my hands). It's the programming I'm worried about. My computer right now is running Win XP sp2. My question is, when I build the new PC, after I configure the CMOS and BIOS (which should be an adventure in its self), Do I need to reinstall the OS, or will it boot off of the current OS on the drive? I'm more or less going to be following the Build Your Own PC tutorial on here, but I just want to know what to expect after I hit the power button. If anyone can give me some guidance, or if there's more you need to know, let me know. Also, I'm considering adding a second slave IDE drive in after it's all said and done, but for now, I need to stick with what I have.

PS- please don't tell me to get a duo-core setup or something better than what I'm working with. I can't really afford to do more than upgrade the hell out of what I have now. Thanks guys!

[newbuilder14]

Change that power supply to something of good quality. The ones PCMech tested caused instability and it was just ugly. You will more than likely have to do a repair install of Windows XP, which is no big deal really, there is a how-to in the Tips & Tricks forum. Don't forget thermal paste for your processor; I recommend Arctic Silver 5. :)

[astronut1885]

I went to a computer store today, and the guy there said my XP disk that came with the dell won't work, but he wanted me to have him build the system, so for all I know he's full of it and just trying to get me to give him money. He kept trying to talk me into a new processor and an SLI setup. While I understand that that stuff is badass, I can't afford it, and what I predict this computer to be capable of when I'm done should be more than enough for me. I'm running games like Star Wars Empire at War and other RTS, and some decent flight sims.

[newbuilder14]

Heh, he tried to talk you into SLI, a successful marketing gimmick (in some cases). You do not need SLI to run those games or others especially if you don't play at humongous resolutions.

What I mean is, if you are using your hard drive and all your files are on it, then all you should really need to do is a repair install of Windows XP (do not confuse with a System Restore, etc.).

[astronut1885]

Yeah, I'd like to keep the HDD as is, with all my files, programs, and all that stuff intact. With the repair install, will I be able to use the OEM Dell disk, or will that confuse it since it will be a far different (and more potent) computer than the piece of crap Dell shipped me a few years back?

As far as the guy goes, yeah, he was pitching me hard. I tried to explain to him that I'm a college kid with minimal money and decent skills. I learn fast, and I like building my own stuff. You should see my Mustang. Half the reason I'm doing this build is just so I know what's in there and how it got there. I really don't want to drop the computer off with him, pay 210.00 for him to build it, and know little more than I do right now...

PS- I've got a nice tube of Arctic Silver 5 sitting in the box of parts :)

[astronut1885]

I just read the article you referred me to. It seems pretty simple, and as long as I can use my "Operating System" "Re installation CD Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Including Service Pack 1" disk, I'll be ok. Of note, however, on the disk it specifically says "Only use this CD to reinstall the OS on a Dell Computer. This CD is not for re installation of programs or drivers" Is that more of a copyright thing, or will that disk have issues with my new build?

I did a little reading on the PSU, and I see what you're talking about. It looks like early batches had issues. Mine is a new one, so I'm hoping it'll be ok. Alot of recent reviews had good things to say about it. I like the concept it has with the wiring, and I'm willing to give it a go and then test it out to see how it handles things. The demand on it shouldn't be too terrible with my setup. If it starts acting up, or I get an uneasy feeling, I'll replace it and stick that puppy in the closet.

[glc]

Nope - you are going to have to buy a new copy of XP, sorry. The Dell reinstall CD won't work with a motherboard that doesn't have a Dell bios. Other than that, you have everything you need, as long as the Ultra power supply is any good.

[astronut1885]

Well, that sucks. Any idea where I can get a cheap disk lol? The other thing is, instead of buying XP, how would I go about moving up to Vista in all of this? If I were to try and install vista on the initial OS bootup, instead of XP, will it delete the XP off of my hard drive, or will I be stuck with 2 different OS on my drive? Part of me thinks I'd be better off just staying with XP until the system is finished and running, and then doing Vista later, but the thought of buying two versions of windows so close together just burns my ass because I know I'm gonna go vista soon.

It looks like I could get vista for decent money on Ebay. I don't know if I'd need a full or upgrade version given the current situation. Also, a little off topic, but if I buy Vista, will I be able to upgrade my parent's XP-home SP2 computer as well, or is it one system per software purchase? I know their hardware meets Vista specs. Also, I just want to say thanks for all your help tonight guys, it's been most appreciated already!

[Staren]

Here is what I would do. Buy a cheap external hard drive enclosure for $30 (just so you don't have to open another computer) and then dump all your important files onto another hard drive temporally.

Then buy the copy of Vista you want here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2060350368+50001149&Subcategory=368&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc= I'd probobly get Home Premium for $120. When you have Vista up and stable, you can just either burn your files to DVDs, move them over a network, use a flash drive, whatever to get them back where you want them. That will get you going without having to lose files.

[astronut1885]

So, if I understand correctly, you're suggesting i take all my important files, like music, pictures, word docs, etc, and copy them to some external storage, then format my drive and basically start off with a completely stock vista PC, then re-save the files to the new drive and reinstall my programs? At that point, wouldn't it be worth my while to upgrade to a newer, bigger, faster SATA drive? If there's really something to gain from spending another 100.00 on a new HDD, I might as well, especially if I'm formatting my old drive. I'd just as soon start fresh on a new drive, then slave in the old IDE drive as a backup memory source if it's possible to mix SATA and IDE drives.

[Staren]

That would be a cleaner solution, yes. I was trying to do it with spending as little as nessasary. If you can afford to add a new Seagate 7200.10 to the list, go for it. You'd have to go with a clean install anyway.

[astronut1885]

Well, the more I think about it, I don't see why I wouldn't jump up to a bigger, faster drive in the computer I'm building. Also, that means I'm only stealing the processor from mine, so I could give it to my cousin, and have him buy a new P4 for it and then he'd be up and running with an XP computer (he's got a busted old optiplex with Win2k and a 1ghz cpu). At this point, I think the best bet would be to get some form of external drive, save all my personal stuff, wipe this computer down to stock, build my new PC, and then give this one to my cousin so I can drop another processor in it and have him back up and running.

[astronut1885]

Any reason for that particular drive? I see the Western Digital Caviar line has higher ratings than the Seagate...

[glc]

You could always buy a copy of XP now - they are all coming with Vista upgrade coupons.

The Seagate 7200.10 is the fastest 7200 rpm SATA made and it has a 5 year warranty.

One copy of any OS - XP or Vista - one computer.

[astronut1885]

I saw the coupons, but they're only for Vista Basic. I want either Home Premium or Ultimate edition. Probably going to get the home premium system builder's disk as suggested above. Also, I'm going to get the Seagate 7200.10 320gb HDD. I think it'll be a nice addition to the system, and I can just leave the old IDE drive in the old system for my cousin. All he'll need is a P4 cpu and he's good to go.

[Staren]

You could get Home Premium from an upgrade, but you have to get XP Media Center or Pro to get a cupon for the higher end versions of Vista. An OEM copy of Home Premium is the best deal right now. Not as cheap as Home Basic, but for full Vista without breaking the bank, that's the best deal.

[newbuilder14]

As I noted above, I do highly recommend you switch out that power supply.

See: http://www.pcmech.com/show/reviews/980/
http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

[astronut1885]

Not to discredit your recommendation, but I did find these:

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/Ultra_X-Connect_1.html

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/other_misc/Ultra_X-Connect/index.htm

http://www.extrememhz.com/xconnect-p3.shtml

http://www.ocia.net/reviews/ultra/page1.shtml

http://www.auphanonline.com/articles/view.php?article_id=1668

[Mr.Ferrari]

You can HARDLY cause those reputable reviews.

-The first one used a old p4 system with a 9700pro to test a 500w powersupply. And it didnt burst into flames. High standards. :p

-Two of them used onboard sensors to get "accurate" voltage readings.

-One of them tested it with a FX5900 and even then the rails shot down to 11.92.

If anything these reviews should've made you not want to buy this powersupply. Its performance is embarassing.

To be fair, the only ones I would even mildly trust with a mid-range system would be the new X-Finity and X-PRO.

[glc]

Other than that, you have everything you need, as long as the Ultra power supply is any good.

From our review:

Testing

The Bad News
I initially received two products from Ultra -- a 600 Watt standard PSU, and the 550 Watt modular unit. I installed the 600 Watt unit first, and the computer was extremely unstable under even a light load (it was being tested in a machine that had a 300 Watt power supply in it previously). The voltages were irregular and unstable, and the machine was so flaky that I could not even open Internet Explorer. Things were looking pretty bad at this point. I tried the 550 Watt unit, and it performed somewhat better -- that is to say the system would at least function -- but the voltages were still varying all over the place. Voltages were well outside of my +/-5% ratio. On the 12V rail, I saw low 11V jumping to 12.199V, and back down. The 5V rail was ranging anywhere from 4.75 to 5.2 volts. The variations in both rails are completely unacceptable. As a result, I promptly contacted Ultra Products, who then decided the units were defective, and sent a new 550 watt modular unit to try.

The Better News
The new unit was much better than the first two. The system was stable enough for me to poke around and see how things were working.

The voltages were much better, within approximately +/- 5% of their rated
levels. They also stayed steadier than the defective units, occasionally moving a little, but overall were acceptable.

[Cricket]

You gotta remember that the power supply is probably the most important component in your computer (and the most overlooked by rookie builders) and it's extremely important that you get a good quality one with a good reputation to avoid the kinds of problems glc describes. The power supply must supply "clean" power to the system (especially powerful high end gaming rigs with high demand parts) so that the computer can run stable during all functions, from idle to maxed out. Cheap, poor quality power supplies just can't do that reliably.

Many of the builders here have years and years of experience and most have worked with a variety of brands over the years and have found that some brands stand out and some brands suck. Take advantage of their knowledge and experience...believe them when they say Ultra just isn't a reliable brand to use.

If you really care about how good your computer will perform once it's assembled, don't use a Ultra power supply. There are many other power supply brands that are much, much better.

:) Cricket

[astronut1885]

I hear ya. The unfortunate part is that it's been sitting under my desk for a month now, already paid for. I'm still kinda on the fence about using it. On another note, I just saw something that made me hit the floor. The p4 3.4EE extreme edition processor. Damn. I want one of those for my build lol. But, I can't afford a 400.00 processor right now. Maybe in the summer I'll get one and replace the 3.0.

[astronut1885]

What about this? I really like the idea of a modular power supply, especially since I want my rig to look good through the window. Part of my consideration through selecting parts has revolved around a nice looking presentation. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817128001

[flanzig1]

Wouldn't spend too much on an old socket like the 478. I just had my P4c 800 Deluxe just up and die.
Spending $400 ona 478 P4 is a waste of money. A Core 2 Duo E6600 doesn't cost that much.
As for the PSU, Hiper is better than Ultra but there has been some issues with the modular interface with some Hiper PSUs. See this thread: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=174696

[astronut1885]

Well, I'm sticking with the 478 for now. Half the new stuff in my box-o-parts is 478 specific.

[glc]

Try it with the Ultra before buying a replacement - yours may work just fine. They do sell a lot of them. I think we are simply saying that if you were to spec out a build, don't put an Ultra in your cart.

[astronut1885]

I hear ya. If I'd have known then, I probably wouldn't have ordered it, but now I'm stuck with it. I know it's a newer version, because it includes the SATA cables, which is a good thing now considering I'm throwing a new HDD at it.