Awake the giant, uh-oh...

[cobra]

http://www.twistedhumor.com/pi/2001/sep/images/sept11(TwistedHumor.com).jpg

[Byte 2.0]

Hmmm Back Dec 7, 1941 Japan awake a sleeping giant.


Honestly, we sit around and barely do anything major until there is enough public outcry. That those in power know if they don't, they will not get re-elected.

So far, I support the steps we are currently taking. However I will say I am one of first to call for blood.

I agree with what Bush said about there is no difference between the ones that do the Attacks and those that harbor them.

When we get the facts, and know who done it, and what country they are in. Then I say we give that country a chance to turn them over to us. If they refuse then I say we use our Military full out anything short of Nukes.

Also, remember several different groups claimed responsibility for this attack. We it is common sense that most of those did not have anything to do with it. In fact they just wanted their names in the news. Well My policy is, and I wish this would get serious consideration.

If they claim responsibility for an attack, then we could just go in with full Military means and Blow them all to HELL. If we get serious with them, show them that we will Take No Sh*T. That is the only thing they understand.

Ok, last I heard, we have a several nations, ready to support our actions if and when we chose to go after those responsible. I don’t claim to know who is responsible, but I am sure the truth will come to light.

That is where I am going to stop for tonight. I am just venting right now.

[Toaster]

"I cannot imagine a way to more infuriate the American peoples. I fear we awoken
a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve"
-Yamamoto- Dec.7, 1941"
The above was a small speech made by Yamamoto when he learned that Japan made no declaration of war before the Pearl Harbor attack.



"I can gurantee we can keep the Americans busy for 12 months, beyond that I offer nothing"
-Yamamoto- November 1941

The above was said when Yamamoto was asked what would happen if America entered the war and the plans for Pearl Harbor were set in action.

"The Americans are a proud and just peoples. Thier industrial might is awsome. I have schooled and worked umongst the Americans and should Japan go to war with the Americans, I fear they will be our most formidable foe.
-Yamamoto- November, 1941-

Yamamoto's response to an inquiry about American resolve.

[LawyerRon]

President Bush has promised that the action taken will be “disproportionate” and “sustained”. So we are all going to get a chance to see what he’s made of.

We're going to find out if he can "walk the walk".

[OOPS!]

Yes, the giant begins to stir. I personally have refrained from posting until now on this, because I fear that we are letting our emtions run away with us. Rather than truely understanding what we are about to undertake. Don't get me wrong, I'm an eye for an eye type myself. But the thing is, we don't seem to understand the culture that we are now going to attack. This will be a war like no other we have fought. There will be no front lines. There will be no pitched battles. There will be no openly faced enemy. And it won't be a "cakewalk" like Desert Storm. It will be to the death. And to win, I fear, we will have to kill them all, to the last infant.

I hope I'm wrong, but from a historic veiw, I don't think so. When we do attack I hope we do with full knowadge of what we are entering into. Because there will be no going back.

Just $.02 to think on, OOPS!

[Kubie]

Ron, you sound as though you have doubts that President Bush can handle this crisis and back up his words. As I look at the few months that he has been president, he has shown me and Congress and even the liberal media that he is a man of his word and that he has character. I firmly believe that any other choices we had for president last November would not in our best interests in this crisis.

OOPS, Like you, I have not commented about the tragedy that occured Sept. 11th.
I read every post and can't believe some things I read. I believe as you do that we must eradicate the radical factions that wish us destroyed. Notice that I didn't mention any religion. Terrorists come in many flavors. The shame of it all is that to eradicate them, we must start in our own country. To have them even breath the same air is disgusting.
Carl

[Charliey]

I heard someone saying today, that if america, and the free world goes to war against terrorism, it will not be a quick hot war.

OOPS said, This will be a war like no other we have fought. There will be no front lines. There will be no pitched

But this is not true. It will be like the cold war (except w/o the arms race), and it will need to continue for as long as the cold war in order to completely eradicate terrorism.

[troysvihl]

I'm not exactly sure how we're going to get into Afganastan, if it really comes to that. It's land-locked, and none of the surrounding countries are willing to let us use their land to stage an invasion.



I firmly believe that any other choices we had for president last November would not in our best interests in this crisis.

This makes me think of something my Econ prof said the other day: "Bush has the best team of advisors that anyone, anywhere, could have put together for this sort of thing. So while Bush is an idiot, it's OK because he's at least smart enough to take their advice. If we had Gore as president, we'd be screwed because he's an idiot too, but he thinks that he's smarter than everyone else and wouldn't have taken anyone's advice."

I don't necessarily agree with that reasoning, but I thought it was funny.

Another one of my profs said he thought a few prime suspects were being overlooked: Gary Condit and/or the news directors of Fox or CNN. (he said the news directors were desperate for another story since they had squeezed as much rateings out of the Condit story as was possible. lol.)

[mairving]

Originally posted by troysvihl
I'm not exactly sure how we're going to get into Afganastan, if it really comes to that. It's land-locked, and none of the surrounding countries are willing to let us use their land to stage an invasion.

Well, it looks like Pakistan is going to let us base a multi-national force there. I am sure that when it came down to it, they had little choice. I guess the question becomes what exactly do we do there. No doubt that there will be ground troops used but the main thing lacking will be intelligence.

This could certainly be the beginning of WW3 but we can no longer sit idly by.

I keep thinking about Bin Laden and his suicide bombers. He is so willing to recruit others to strap a bomb to their chest and blow themselves up or fly a plane into a building. But it appears that he is not willing to do this himself. What a hypocrite.

[troysvihl]

Well, it looks like Pakistan is going to let us base a multi-national force there. I am sure that when it came down to it, they had little choice. I guess the question becomes what exactly do we do there. No doubt that there will be ground troops used but the main thing lacking will be intelligence.

Well, the news keeps saying that Pakistan will cooperate fully. But that's the extent of their reporting. Just a day or two ago, Pakistan had agreed to all our demands but one: they wouldn't let us use their soil as a staging ground.

[troysvihl]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34410,00.html

Well, I guess Pakistan did give in.

But what exactly would be the point of invading Afganistan? Bin Laden certainly isn't going to sit patiently in Pakistan and wait for our forces to get ready to come get him. I would think that the job of tracking him down would be better done by a small intelligence squad or some other smaller, less noticeable operation.

And I fear that a large scale invasion of Afganistan will only solidify the Arab world against the US.

[LawyerRon]

Carl, I didn't say I doubt his ability as President but what I am saying is that until this crisis, he hasn't shown me much. Now we're all going to see if he is a man of his word.

[Tiretool]

Here's another awesome drawing!

http://www.pcmech.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=106518

[Kubie]

Ron, sorry if I mis-understood your post. Its just that its been a media thing since the election. I for one certainly hopes he can "walk the walk". People have said that this will be a protracted war, possibly many years. My thoughts are that, are we ready to stand by any president for any length of time? After what I've seen of the American peoples memory, I doubt it.
Carl

[WJWheels]

Well, the president has shown me he's a man of conviction, of faith, of good morals, of compassion, of strength, and of his word. His and the world's task is monumental. I refer to the following:

From Osana bin Laden's "Fatwah"
“We with God’s help call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God’s order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan’s U.S. troops and the devil’s supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.”
It seems a daunting task to root out those that believe in and follow this mantra, but we must for insurance that what happenned last Tuesday (or worse) never happens again.

[Kubie]

Wheels,
That quote needs to be pasted on signs around the country, shown on tv at least 4 times a week, and put on the front page of every newspaper until these animals are hunted down and eliminated.
Carl

[Toaster]

Hello folks,
I am a Republican at heart and thus stand by our President. I would however stand by any president in this affair. My favorite President is Ronald Reagan.
Were this attack on the US made during HIS administration, terrorists would be now booking passage to Mars as he would "Respond Massively" (the words of JFK).
If the Peanut farmer (Carter) or the womanizer (Clinton) were in, i'd say we were screwed.
Nixon on the other hand would do well also.
President Bush is a rather poor speaker and a rather "unfinished" forign diplomat. In my eyes, R. Reagan shined in all areas.
Whoever, whatever, we all need to stand firmly TOGETHER, something the world is awestruck when describing Americans and American resolve.


As far as Pakistan and the other countries, they "pledge" help for one simple reason: TO COVER THEIR A$$ because they KNOW without doubt, America WILL strike down those that oppose us. Not only that, they want the American dollar.
I personaly have great distrust for Pakistans "pledge".
Were they to say "anything you need or want, we will fight side by side if needed" would make me feel better then "um...yeah...er...sure we'll help...sorta..as long as...as long as...."

There are many a fine Nation and it's peoples that WILL aide America without condition or exclusion. These are America's "TRUE" allies and not a simple fair weather friend that we may have to be on guard of.

[Tiretool]

http://pain.outloud.org/gary/thankyou/freedom.jpg

[mairving]

Actually Bush has certainly stepped up to the bar. Tuesday morning his speech was kind of wimpy and he looked a bit scared. With every day that passed, he grew a bit more. His speeches became more impassioned and his stature taller. Friday seeing him at the Washington service and in NY was seeing him at his best. His words were from the heart. He even asked Al Gore to fly in from Europe so that he could be at the service in Washington. Almost all of the politicians now are being very apolitical. I mean to see Hillary Clinton praising GW is awesome. It has certainly given us a common cause. As great a job as Bush has done this week, he still probably couldn't beat out Gulliani in a race. Gulliani has been awesome.

[WJWheels]

The following was written by Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.

--------------

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. " Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do? " Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done. " And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.

There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps. " It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500, 000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan-a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban-by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time So what else is there?

What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the War would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours.

Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary

[bob]

The premise is flawed. Terrorists will be more suprised by what we do than we were suprised by their attack.

"//we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first.//"

Seems Pakistan has already given the OK.
Suprise #1 of many.

[Tiretool]

A tribute (http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/IceWalker/ATributetotheVictimsandFamily.html)

[WJWheels]

Originally posted by bob
The premise is flawed. Terrorists will be more suprised by what we do than we were suprised by their attack.

"//we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first.//"

Seems Pakistan has already given the OK.
Suprise #1 of many. I hope so. It seems they have, if the people will allow it... read THIS. (http://news.excite.com/news/ap/010916/14/int-attacks-pakistan)

[Gintaras]

Originally posted by mairving
As great a job as Bush has done this week, he still probably couldn't beat out Gulliani in a race. Gulliani has been awesome.

Couldn't agree more on that.

Some talk the talk,
some walk the walk.