My Maiden Build

[ExPA]

Hiya! After a little reading and a gathering of some advice from a few experienced others, I'm currently thinking about the build described below, which would be my very first. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated! The machine is targeted to run very intensive 3D graphics applications (e.g., Poser 7, which can use a dual or quad core) as well as occasional gaming (e.g., Oblivion, but no DirectX 10 games, at least yet). I would probably be inclined to set the HDDs up in RAID 1. Thanks!! ExPA

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail

ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink - Retail

Intel BOXD975XBX2KR "Bad Axe" LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

EVGA 512-P2-N635-AR Geforce 7950GT KO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

[TWO:] Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Onboard sound

SONY Black 2M Cache E-IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner - OEM

SONY Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model MPF920 Black - OEM

COOLER MASTER Mystique RC-632-KKN1-GP Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

Thermaltake Purepower W0129RU ATX12V 600 W Power Supply 115/230 V CE, FCC, UL, CUL, TUV certification - Retail

NEC Display Solutions 90GX2-BK Black 19" 4ms DVI LCD Monitor 400 cd/m2 700:1 - Retail

OPTI-UPS SS1200BLK 6 Outlets Voltage Stabilizer

Microsoft Windows XP Professional X64

[glc]

Don't waste the storage space - just set up the 2 drives independent. Raid 1 does you no good unless 1 drive physically fails - any viruses or corruption will wind up on both drives.

Intensive 3D graphics applications will run better on a workstation card such as an ATI FireGL or a Nvidia Quadro.

I'd think twice about X64 - driver support is just bad.

I would not get that DVD burner unless it comes with software - most OEM drives don't.

[hitchface]

Go with an LG or LiteOn burner. You can grab them retail for the OEM price most times, and it will come with software. Probably a fair bit cheaper than the Sony too, without compromising quality.

[ExPA]

Don't waste the storage space - just set up the 2 drives independent. Raid 1 does you no good unless 1 drive physically fails - any viruses or corruption will wind up on both drives.

Intensive 3D graphics applications will run better on a workstation card such as an ATI FireGL or a Nvidia Quadro.

I'd think twice about X64 - driver support is just bad.

I would not get that DVD burner unless it comes with software - most OEM drives don't.

Thanks for the advice glc!

I'll definitely focus on retail rather than OEM for the burner, and I'm also now thinking about either using the 2 HDDs in RAID 0 or maybe just save some $ and go with one drive for now.

On the graphics card, my understanding is that Poser's firefly renderer doesn't get any boost from the graphics card so I'm not sure I should spring the extra $ for a top of the line card. Also, someone told me the 7950GT would run virtually all currently available games at a good clip (though I know it wouldn't work with any new DirectX10 games).

My biggest anxiety now is about the OS. I thought x64 would be good, especially for Poser which can do multi-thread rendering and relies heavily on RAM (for which I thought using x64 would help, especially if I eventually boost above 2GB). Should I be thinking instead about regular XP Pro... or perhaps the media center edition I've seen some assembly houses put into their gaming rigs?

Thanks!

[ExPA]

Go with an LG or LiteOn burner. You can grab them retail for the OEM price most times, and it will come with software. Probably a fair bit cheaper than the Sony too, without compromising quality.

I will definitely check out LG and LiteOn, both of which I recall seeing get good reviews in places like PC Mag. Also, someone suggested Pioneer is good too, so I will look at that option as well.

Thanks for the input!

[hitchface]

I am using MCE right now, and if you are looking for good tools, it doesn't really have any more that Home does. It has some bells and whistles that MIGHT be useful, like the ability to use a remote control and some simplified TV-directed functionality, but besides that it just looks prettier. Thats in my experience anyways.

[Cricket]

You really don't need the Zalman heatsink since the retail E6600 already comes with a heatsink (which you must use to retain the 3 year warranty).

And this is just me, but I wouldn't use a Thermaltake power supply...I'd get something from Seasonic, Fortron Source or Sparkle Power instead.

I've had a Lite-On DVD burner for about 3 years now and I'm satisfied with it's performance, no problems at all...but it is a little noisy at times. Just be sure to get the retail version so you get the burning software with it.

And when you get everything you might want to just put the floppy drive in storage as you'll probably never use it unless you have to run diagnostics from a floppy disk. I haven't used the floppy drives in any of my 3 computers in years. In fact I removed one floppy drive from my main computer to make room for an additional hard drive (which is much more useful). I doubt I'll ever miss it.

:) Cricket

[glc]

RAID 0 is DEFINITELY not recommended - if one drive hiccups the whole array goes down with total data loss. For NOW - stick with XP Home - then upgrade to 64 bit Vista when it's all debugged and drivers are all sorted out.

If DX10 games are in your future, just stick a 7600GS in there as a placeholder for now.

[ExPA]

I am using MCE right now, and if you are looking for good tools, it doesn't really have any more that Home does. It has some bells and whistles that MIGHT be useful, like the ability to use a remote control and some simplified TV-directed functionality, but besides that it just looks prettier. Thats in my experience anyways.

Thanks for the insights on MCE, hitchface. This machine won't be in the same room as my HDTV, so seems like MCE wouldn't be that useful... but the info you gave WILL be helpul on my NEXT build, which I hope to set up as a media center PC in the room that DOES have the HDTV. cheers...

[ExPA]

You really don't need the Zalman heatsink since the retail E6600 already comes with a heatsink (which you must use to retain the 3 year warranty).

And this is just me, but I wouldn't use a Thermaltake power supply...I'd get something from Seasonic, Fortron Source or Sparkle Power instead.

I've had a Lite-On DVD burner for about 3 years now and I'm satisfied with it's performance, no problems at all...but it is a little noisy at times. Just be sure to get the retail version so you get the burning software with it.

And when you get everything you might want to just put the floppy drive in storage as you'll probably never use it unless you have to run diagnostics from a floppy disk. I haven't used the floppy drives in any of my 3 computers in years. In fact I removed one floppy drive from my main computer to make room for an additional hard drive (which is much more useful). I doubt I'll ever miss it.

:) Cricket

Thanks for the very helpful advice, Cricket! Someone else had suggested I not bother with the Zalman CPU cooler. Looks like I'll save a little more $$, thanks to you guys!

I had also heard someone else say good things about Seasonic PSUs. Since I'm shooting in the dark on the choice of PSU, I will look again at Seasonic!

As for the floppy drive, I think I have an internal in a box off old computer parts somewhere. I guess I could just cable it up temporarily then stash it away again. On the other hand, a new one on newegg looks like it's only $6-8, so I'll look again at the case I end up getting to see if it's just as easy to throw one in permanently.

Will definitely get the retail version of the burner, and will look hard at the LiteOn, which I have now seen many folks recommend.

Thanks again!

[ExPA]

RAID 0 is DEFINITELY not recommended - if one drive hiccups the whole array goes down with total data loss. For NOW - stick with XP Home - then upgrade to 64 bit Vista when it's all debugged and drivers are all sorted out.

If DX10 games are in your future, just stick a 7600GS in there as a placeholder for now.

Thanks for the additional, excellent advice glc! Now I'm having doubts about ANY RAID setup, though I have seen references in some forums to RAID 5 or RAID 10. I'm wondering if I should look into those options, or just bag the idea of doing RAID at all.... confusing stuff.

On the OS, I'm a little worried about using XP Home, even as an interim OS. I have that on an old, hand-me-down-from-my-dad machine currently hooked up to my HDTV and it is a pain to network with the other PCs in the house. The machines I have which use XP Pro (e.g., the work laptop I bring home and plug in every few days) network nicely. But I'm definitely going to stay away from Vista for now. I don't want to be beta tester for a new OS AND a first-time PC builder at the same time!

Thanks again!

[flanzig1]

RAID 5 or 10 are for basiclly data storage with servers. If you were building a big file server then RAID 5 or 10 would be practical.

[ExPA]

RAID 5 or 10 are for basiclly data storage with servers. If you were building a big file server then RAID 5 or 10 would be practical.

Thanks flanzig... I get it now! I'm now starting to think I might go for one big honkin drive... and leaving RAIDing to the experts! cheers

[Cricket]

I'm now starting to think I might go for one big honkin drive...There's an advantage to having two hard drives...you can install the operating system and programs to one hard drive and save all your personal data to the second hard drive. That way if the operating system gets corrupted or crashes, or if the hard drive dies, you still have all your personal data saved on the second hard drive (that hopefully hasn't died too) and will have access to it once your reinstall the operating system or replace the dead hard drive and install the operating system to it.

You can just go with one hard drive but make sure you back up your personal data regularly.

:) Cricket

[LeftyAce]

Speaking of backups...I'd highly recommend getting an internal drive and putting it in an Apricorn enclosure. If you get one with eSATA, the transfer rate will be as fast as if the drive were inside your computer, and the Apricorns come with backup software. Just my 2 cents.

[ExPA]

There's an advantage to having two hard drives...you can install the operating system and programs to one hard drive and save all your personal data to the second hard drive. That way if the operating system gets corrupted or crashes, or if the hard drive dies, you still have all your personal data saved on the second hard drive (that hopefully hasn't died too) and will have access to it once your reinstall the operating system or replace the dead hard drive and install the operating system to it.

You can just go with one hard drive but make sure you back up your personal data regularly.

:) Cricket

That certainly makes sense, so that is what I'll do. I suppose too that if the first drive is large enough, I can use it to make manual backups of my personal files stored primarily on drive #2. Thanks for the advice!

[ExPA]

Speaking of backups...I'd highly recommend getting an internal drive and putting it in an Apricorn enclosure. If you get one with eSATA, the transfer rate will be as fast as if the drive were inside your computer, and the Apricorns come with backup software. Just my 2 cents.

Good advice LeftyAce... thanks! I do have a couple old Maxtor external HDDs sitting around with onetouch backup button plus software, but those might be too small at 60GB to be useful for the new rig. So I am definitely writing your option down as an alternative!

[ExPA]

Latest tweaks to the plan:

1. Substitute Antec 900 case for Cooler Master Mystique
2. Dropped Zalman CPU cooling fan in favor of stock for E6600
3. Substitute NEC floppy drive for Sony (save $2!!)
4. Substitute Lite-On DVD burner for Sony
5. Substitute Corsair 520w PSU for Thermaltake 600w
6. Substitute Win XP Pro with Vista upgrade coupon for Win XP Pro x64
7. Substitute DirectUPS power block for Opti-UPS stabilizer (due to out of stock)

So the current plan, culled from my newegg wish list, is pasted below. My main residual anxiety is about the RAM speed and whether I should be thinking about 800 rather than 675.

Any last words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

And thanks again to everyone who has helped me with this first build!

cheers... ExPa



Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

Intel BOXD975XBX2KR LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

EVGA 512-P2-N635-AR Geforce 7950GT KO 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600 - Retail

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-5400c4 - Retail

NEC Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive - OEM

[TWO:] Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

NEC Display Solutions 90GX2 Silver 19" 4ms DVI LCD Monitor with 4-port USB 2.0 hub - Retail

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with 12X DVD-RAM Write Black IDE Model LH-20A1P-185 - OEM

Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP2b 1pk w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM

DirectUPS XP400 400VA 200 Watts UPS - Retail

$1,763.88

[Cricket]

My main residual anxiety is about the RAM speed and whether I should be thinking about 800 rather than 675.

Any last words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!You only need DDR2 667 to run the E6600 at stock speeds. You don't even need XMS memory, ValueSelect RAM is fine. You would only need XMS DDR2 800 if you plan to overclock.

:) Cricket

[ExPA]

You only need DDR2 667 to run the E6600 at stock speeds. You don't even need XMS memory, ValueSelect RAM is fine. You would only need XMS DDR2 800 if you plan to overclock.

:) Cricket

Thanks for the help Cricket!

I guess I need to figure out, then, whether my games (e.g., Oblivion) and/or my 3D app rendering (e.g., Poser 7 firefly) would be enhanced significantly if I overclock. If so, then I guess Corsair XMS DDR2 800 RAM would be a good match for my overclocked E6600?

[hitchface]

What you should also consider is whether or not you can afford a new system should overclocking cause damage. I wouldn't be too excited about replacing some of the parts you have on there, so you might take that into consideration. You can't get anything replaced under warranty if you overclock. This is significant because unless I am mistaken, you switched back the the stock CPU cooler in part so that you could still have a warranty on it.

[ExPA]

What you should also consider is whether or not you can afford a new system should overclocking cause damage. I wouldn't be too excited about replacing some of the parts you have on there, so you might take that into consideration. You can't get anything replaced under warranty if you overclock. This is significant because unless I am mistaken, you switched back the the stock CPU cooler in part so that you could still have a warranty on it.

Ulp! You're right! I did switch back to the stock cooler. Well, I'm thinking I should go back to my original, no-overclocking plan... and see if I can't save a little more $$ on RAM!

Thanks for keeping me out of trouble!

[glc]

Take a look at the Tripplite line-interactive UPS units.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16842111031

[ExPA]

Take a look at the Tripplite line-interactive UPS units.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16842111031

Looks good to me, so I swapped that one onto my wish list. Thanks!

[haggard21]

You do not need the Arctic Silver 5 either, the stock heatsink will have a thermal pad installed.

[hitchface]

Well, you might be able to squeak a degree or two if you use AS5, but if you aren't a stickler for the perfect temps, don't bother with it.

[ExPA]

Thanks Hitchface and Haggard21! I'll delete the AS5.

And I might apply the savings to a dremel tool since I saw an interesting thread on the Antec 900 and might try to route some of the cables so they're less conspicuous.

cheers!

[glc]

Removing the stock pad will void the processor warranty too unless you use Intel's replacement material.

[hitchface]

Yeah, didn't think about that I guess. Unless you can really afford to replace the parts, play by the rules. That's what I'd do anyway.

[ExPA]

Thanks for the timely warning glc and hitchface. I shall indeed play by the rules.

I do have another question: what is the best way to monitor these critical temperatures folks are always talking about (esp. CPU temp). Is a temperature probe of some sort standard equipment with the CPU or motherboard? If not --and if it really is useful to monitor these temperatures-- do you have any recommendations on brands or models?

Thanks!

[newbuilder14]

You can see the temperatures in BIOS and also by using programs such as CoreTemp and IntelTAT.

[ExPA]

You can see the temperatures in BIOS and also by using programs such as CoreTemp and IntelTAT.

Thanks newbuilder14! Once I posted, it occurred to me I should search for an answer to this myself first since it must be a fairly basic question. Sure enough, after searching around this forum, and finding and reading the online manual for the Intel bad axe motherboard, it is clear that there are stock probes all over the place. It'll be awhile before I get to shed the newbie label, but I hereby promise to read my manuals!

Even so, it is nice to get advice from experienced folks on matters such as which monitoring programs would be useful to supplement the readings from the BIOS... so thank you for pointing out those two programs!

cheers...

[LeftyAce]

Temperature probes are standard on the CPU and motherboard. You can access the temps in the BIOS, as well as through software in windows (Mine came on my motherboard CD). You shouldn't need to worry about them unless you're overclocking; the processor is designed to run just fine with the supplied fan.

*EDIT* Sorry, didn't see this had gone to a second page :o

[ExPA]

Temperature probes are standard on the CPU and motherboard. You can access the temps in the BIOS, as well as through software in windows (Mine came on my motherboard CD). You shouldn't need to worry about them unless you're overclocking; the processor is designed to run just fine with the supplied fan.

*EDIT* Sorry, didn't see this had gone to a second page :o

Hi LeftyAce-- Thanks for the info and reassurance! It does seem like my E6600 should be ok running with stock stuff and no overclocking... especially since I plan to get the Antec 900 case which seems to do a good job on cooling. cheers!

[ExPA]

[raises hand, worrying he's already asked for too much help from all the wizards here]

I was just looking over the specs for the Bad Axe 2 on the Intel website, and it says the following for Memory Frequency: Dual Channel DDR2 -- 800/667/533 MHz.

In my current plan, I had picked out 675 MHz modules; specifically: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400).

Since I'm not planning to overclock, I understand 800 is probably overkill. But do Intel's specs mean I should then go down to 667 (i.e., 675 wouldn't work)?

Corsair doesn't seem to have DDR2 667MHz modules... so if 675 isn't ok, is there another brand I should look at?

Thanks!

[ExPA]

hmmm... plus I just noticed the 800 MHz PC2 6400 flavor of the Corsair modules is only a couple bucks more on newegg than the 675 MHz ones on my current build list... at least if I can get the $40 MIR.

[glc]

The 800 Corsair is fine, as long as it's not the C4 and as long as it's 1.8 or 1.9 volts. You need to look at the Value Select line, not the XMS line, to get 667.

[ExPA]

The 800 Corsair is fine, as long as it's not the C4 and as long as it's 1.8 or 1.9 volts. You need to look at the Value Select line, not the XMS line, to get 667.

Ok, I see the value select line now. If C4 refers to the cas latency (I REALLY need to read a book... I have 4 on hold at the library as of today), then I guess the--

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

-- is ok. It is cas latency 5 and 1.9v. With a $40 MIR, it is only $163, which is just a few $ more than the value select 667.

And I suppose if there's any chance I might some day upgrade to an Intel quad core CPU when the prices on those drop, I might as well get the 800 Corsair since it looks like the Bad Axe 2 can accept the quad core... and I'm assuming the Bad Axe 2 with a quad core would rather see 800 MHz than 667MHz RAM...?

Gosh, I think I'm starting to learn enough lingo to impress my PC-civilian friends, but probably sound foolish to all of you folks who actually understand this stuff. :rolleyes:

Cheers, and thanks again for all your help glc!

[ExPA]

Tonight, my focus is PSUs. After looking through the sticky threads and some of their links, and sifting through newegg and looking at enermax, cooler master, Antec, seasonic, etc... I'm down to the following two options:

(1) the Corsair in my current build list: CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply - Retail

or

(2) the OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI ATX12V 600W Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB/CE/CSA/UL/FCC - Retail

I'm leaning toward the OCZ at the moment because of (a) more power, (b) cool LED fan might look good in my Antec 900, and (c) with MIR it's actually cheaper than the Corsair.

Recommendations? Thanks!

[hitchface]

Gosh, I think I'm starting to learn enough lingo to impress my PC-civilian friends, but probably sound foolish to all of you folks who actually understand this stuff. :rolleyes:

We just pretend to know what is going on.

I know what you mean though. It is a lot of stuff to learn, especially if you haven't been following it since the beginning or near to it. Don't worry, we are all learning, 100 percent of the time.

[ExPA]

After searching around on other peoples' building plans, it looks like I will do well with either the Corsair 520 or OCZ 600 PSU, though any final recommendations would be appreciated!

I'm still leaning toward the OCZ based on higher power and LED fan, though I like the idea of the Corsair's modular cabling since that would let me keep a neater insides visible through the Antec 900 window ... OTOH, I've seen some posts around which advise against modular cabling... something to do with higher resistances as I recall.

[slowly reaching for credit card and newegg wish list...]

cheers!

[hitchface]

While I don't know much about the modular PSU section of things, I do know that the cables that come with the PSU will be proprietary, so good luck finding cheap replacements should you need them.

[ExPA]

While I don't know much about the modular PSU section of things, I do know that the cables that come with the PSU will be proprietary, so good luck finding cheap replacements should you need them.

Good point amigo! Thanks for that thought.

I'm leaning back toward the OCZ, but just noticed newegg has the 700w unit for close to the price of the 600w GameXStream after MIR (the latter also having a smaller MIR which makes the 600w competitive with the 520w Corsair too).

So now I have to decide if $10 (plus MIR risk factor) is worth it to get a more future-proof PSU. If I ever decide to throw in another hard drive or two and/or go for quad core and/or get a second graphics card for a SLI setup I assume the extra power would come in handy. Plus the Antec 900 has all those fans! OTOH, it seems pretty unlikely I would ever do SLI for a 7950GT or add yet another fan to the Antec 900 side window.

Decisions, decisions!

[hitchface]

If it were me, I'd go with the 700. Sooner or later you will want to swap that video card out with something that is DX10 capable, and a 520 will start to show its age once you get to that point. It will be older (by how much depends on how fast you upgrade, I guess) and you will be putting more stress on it. I have a 550, and I am comfortable with my overhead, but I'd get worried as soon as I put a DX10 card in there. That could be just me being cautious, though.

[ExPA]

If it were me, I'd go with the 700. Sooner or later you will want to swap that video card out with something that is DX10 capable, and a 520 will start to show its age once you get to that point. It will be older (by how much depends on how fast you upgrade, I guess) and you will be putting more stress on it. I have a 550, and I am comfortable with my overhead, but I'd get worried as soon as I put a DX10 card in there. That could be just me being cautious, though.

Good thoughts. I've been mulling this over alot, and I'm actually thinking I will go with the Corsair 520w, especially due to its reported high quality and its modular cables. As of today, it seems pretty unlikely I will ever upgrade to a DX10 card; but even if I do it seems there are folks around who are running 8800 cards with less than or equal to 520w. So while the 620w Corsair is tempting for future-proofing, it is about $50 more than the 520w. Anyway, I might still change my mind, but in the next post I'm going to paste in my final draft build plan, which reflects the 520w Corsair.

Thanks for all your help and ideas hitchface!

[Mr.Ferrari]

Stick to the Corsair HX 520W.

OCZ/FSP Gamextreme/Epsilon line are not so hot.

[ExPA]

Final draft build plan. I'm REALLY reaching for my credit card no later than Saturday! Thanks anticipatorily for any final suggestions anyone wants to give!

And thanks once again to glc, hitchface, newbuilder14, Cricket, LeftyAce, Mr. Ferrari, haggard21, and flanzig1 for all the very helpful comments!


Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower

Intel BOXD975XBX2KR LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

EVGA 512-P2-N635-AR GeForce 7950GT 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 KO Video Card - Retail

CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600 - Retail

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400 - Retail

(Two) Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

NEC Display Solutions 90GX2-BK Black 19" 4ms DVI LCD Monitor - Retail

SONY Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DDU1615/B2s - OEM

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with 12X DVD-RAM Write Black IDE Model LH-20A1P-185 - OEM

Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP2b 1pk w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM

TRIPP LITE AVR550U 550 VA 300 Watts AVR Series Line-Interactive UPS System - Retail


Notes:

1. Unlikely to ever do SLI
2. May eventually upgrade to Nvidia 8000 series graphics card, but chances are actually very slim
3. May eventually add 2GB more RAM
4. Have an old floppy drive I can hook up temporarily if needed to flash BIOS
5. Intend to put OS and programs on HDD #1 and personal files on HDD #2; i.e., no RAID
6. Probably install Vista after it matures adequately -- Business version seems ok
7. May eventually upgrade to quad core CPU (hence the investment in faster RAM rather than Value Select 667 MHz)


Residual concerns:

A. Upgrading to 620w Corasir PSU may be warranted but costs ~$50 more than 520w... not sure it is worth it
B. SATA optical drives seem preferable, but also seem generally unavailable... not sure it is worth waiting for stock

[ExPA]

Stick to the Corsair HX 520W.

OCZ/FSP Gamextreme/Epsilon line are not so hot.

Thanks Mr. Ferrari!

[hitchface]

Not a problem. My only question is why you might not ever upgrade to a DX10 card? I know that people run the 8800 on less, but that is certainly not the end all of DX10 cards. ATi is supposed to come out with their R600 later this month, and it is a beast. DX10 cards will replace DX9 cards, and inevitably, most of us will be using DX10 within the next year and a half.

I'm not necessarily trying to sway you to spend more, I just want to make sure that you are looking at what is coming. The 7950 is a great card, but in a year's time, if we have even one more tech explosion like we did just recently, it will look like the 6600 does today.

It all depends on what you are aiming for I guess. Some people are on the bleeding edge, getting the latest and greatest the day it comes out. Some ride the back of the wave, and try to balance price with performance, and others still are riding on the previous swell. If you can foresee an upgrade, go with a PSU that won't need replacing as well. If you aren't, stick with your 520w. you have some good options, and you will be happy no matter what, I'm sure of it.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Just FYI, future quadcore's won't be going above 1333mhz FSB, that is still a perfect match for DDR2 667. But DDR2 800 won't hurt either.

And no point in upgrading to the Corsair 620W, the 520w is already MORE then enough power. Even if you were gonna go SLI, you'll need more then 620w.

Your current video card selection is fine. If you go for a low end placeholder, you won't be able to play your current games at high settings.

[ExPA]

Not a problem. My only question is why you might not ever upgrade to a DX10 card? I know that people run the 8800 on less, but that is certainly not the end all of DX10 cards. ATi is supposed to come out with their R600 later this month, and it is a beast. DX10 cards will replace DX9 cards, and inevitably, most of us will be using DX10 within the next year and a half.

I'm not necessarily trying to sway you to spend more, I just want to make sure that you are looking at what is coming. The 7950 is a great card, but in a year's time, if we have even one more tech explosion like we did just recently, it will look like the 6600 does today.

It all depends on what you are aiming for I guess. Some people are on the bleeding edge, getting the latest and greatest the day it comes out. Some ride the back of the wave, and try to balance price with performance, and others still are riding on the previous swell. If you can foresee an upgrade, go with a PSU that won't need replacing as well. If you aren't, stick with your 520w. you have some good options, and you will be happy no matter what, I'm sure of it.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments hitchface. I think you're right that I do need to be careful to avoid potential near-term regrets by limiting myself on future upgrades. I'm not one of the bleeding edgers, but I may well want today's bleeding edge when it is less... edgy (i.e., costly).;)

In the case of the Corsair 520w PSU, I think I'm probably ok, even if I do decide to spring for a more powerful 8000 series card in a year or two. I did run my system through that power calculator I found linked in one of the other forums here and even putting in a 3rd HDD, 2 more RAM sticks, and subbing in a 8800GTX I had a "cushion" of over 45 watts (i.e., it came in at 473w). And if worse came to worst, I could always spring for a bigger PSU if I had to, and use the 520w in a new build for one of my kids when they head off to college!

So thanks again for all your great suggestions! I'm increasingly confident this system will be great fun! cheers...

[Mr.Ferrari]

Just to add, the Corsair HX has more raw power on its 12v lines then most 600watters do. Its the ideal single high power card psu.

[ExPA]

Just FYI, future quadcore's won't be going above 1333mhz FSB, that is still a perfect match for DDR2 667. But DDR2 800 won't hurt either.

And no point in upgrading to the Corsair 620W, the 520w is already MORE then enough power. Even if you were gonna go SLI, you'll need more then 620w.

Your current video card selection is fine. If you go for a low end placeholder, you won't be able to play your current games at high settings.

Thanks Mr. Ferrari! Based on what you said, I'm going to look again at the price difference between the Corsair DDR2 800 and the 667. I vaguely remember the price being fairly close, but I've also seen a number of folks here suggesting that the 667s are plenty fast for a build like mine... so why spend more than one has to?!

And thanks too for the affirmation on the PSU and video card. Thinking about my past tendencies on things like cars, computers, and girlfriends, I tend to hang on to things longer than I should before trading in, so it's more than likely that this machine will stay unchanged for many years... and then I'll just want to build a whole new one with with an "Octo Core" CPU and an Nvidia GeWhizForce 9990GTX++.

cheers!

[ExPA]

Just to add, the Corsair HX has more raw power on its 12v lines then most 600watters do. Its the ideal single high power card psu.

Sounds great! I'm sold! Corsair it is. I think that will make glc prouder of me too. thanks! You guys have been great!

[hitchface]

and then I'll just want to build a whole new one with with an "Octo Core" CPU and an Nvidia GeWhizForce 9990GTX++.

cheers!

I most certainly 'lol'ed at that. I figure by the time they have a GeWhizForce 9990GTX++, they had darn well better be past 8 cores.

[ExPA]

I most certainly 'lol'ed at that. I figure by the time they have a GeWhizForce 9990GTX++, they had darn well better be past 8 cores.

AND we'll be able to order those newfangled USB 4.0 NogginLink cables which plug into our heads and eliminate the need for monitors.:D

[ExPA]

Okay, ONE more change to the build plan, substituting SATA versions of the Lite-On DVD-ROM and DVD burner optical drives. I just can't stop tinkering, even if it's only abstract virtual tinkering at this point.

cheers!

[davea33]

ExPA,
My specs are very similar to yours (no coincidence since the same people helped me, and many thanks to them). I'm waiting until the end of April for price drops before I purchase the parts. If you build before then let us know how it goes and what to look out for.

[ExPA]

ExPA,
My specs are very similar to yours (no coincidence since the same people helped me, and many thanks to them). I'm waiting until the end of April for price drops before I purchase the parts. If you build before then let us know how it goes and what to look out for.

Okay will do. I'd like to wait until the next price drop too, but this is going to be a Spring Break project building with my son, so I need to start ordering parts this weekend. Newegg and I are going to be on a first name basis soon.

[glc]

You know.........you could buy the cheapest Celeron-D you can get to get it up and running - then when the E6600 drops $100 you can buy one and put it in and be money ahead. You will then have a spare processor for troubleshooting or to build a basic barebones box with.

[Staren]

I just can't stop tinkering, even if it's only abstract virtual tinkering at this point.

Hey, believe me, better to do the virtual tinkering now then buy everything and then come looking for advice after the fact. It's happened here before and it will no doubt happen again. Someone burns up their credit card with $1,500 in parts and buys some off brand cheap power supply or gets IDE drives when the motherboard has a well known problem with IDE if they'd only asked, and all we can do at that point is suggest returns if possible and hope there hasn't been any damage done. You'd be amazed what some people will do with their money.

[hitchface]

Don't forget the price drop in video cards too. I would imagine that would happen with the R600 and other DX10 cards coming our way.

[Gene1]

Sounds like a very nice build. Although the very quiet Black Antec 180 is more my style.

[ExPA]

You know.........you could buy the cheapest Celeron-D you can get to get it up and running - then when the E6600 drops $100 you can buy one and put it in and be money ahead. You will then have a spare processor for troubleshooting or to build a basic barebones box with.

Interesting idea! I guess it brings up 3 questions:

1. How confident can I be that the E6600 price drop will occur and that it will be at least $100?

2. How much of a hassle will it be to swap out the CPU and install the E6600 heat sink and fan once the motherboard and all its peripherals installed (with their cables strewn about)?

3. Will my speedy RAM and other high-end components get all depressed when they see they're hooked up to a Celeron-D and go into some kind of post-natal funk, refusing to turn on or sending derisive comments about me to the monitor?

Okay, that last question wasn't serious, but the first two are. Plus, I guess I need to think about what the true salvage value of the Celeron would be, considering that I could have it on the shelf as a test CPU for my NEXT build too as well as maybe put it in a bare bones box as glc suggests!

[ExPA]

Hey, believe me, better to do the virtual tinkering now then buy everything and then come looking for advice after the fact. It's happened here before and it will no doubt happen again. Someone burns up their credit card with $1,500 in parts and buys some off brand cheap power supply or gets IDE drives when the motherboard has a well known problem with IDE if they'd only asked, and all we can do at that point is suggest returns if possible and hope there hasn't been any damage done. You'd be amazed what some people will do with their money.

Yes indeed! I've seen the folks here save the skin of many newbies (like me) either ex ante or ex post... which is one of the reasons I just signed on as a PC Mech supporter. :o

[ExPA]

Don't forget the price drop in video cards too. I would imagine that would happen with the R600 and other DX10 cards coming our way.

Another good idea! I might actually have a spare graphics card I can pull out of one of the old boxes lying around in the basement. Now I need to check when they're projecting those new cards will be out...

Thanks to all for the additional helpful ideas!

[ExPA]

Sounds like a very nice build. Although the very quiet Black Antec 180 is more my style.

I've wondered about my case choice too at times. It's conceivable I might eventually move this into my den and hook it up to my HDTV. Those blue LED fans could be distracting. OTOH, I guess I can alway swap those out for non-LED fans if necessary. Or just drape a thick black cloth over the whole thing while it's running... just kidding!

[glc]

All indications are that the E6600 will be dropping at the wholesale level from $316 to $224 on April 22.

http://www.behardware.com/news/8579/core-2-price-reduction-04-22-07.html

The motherboard should be removed from the case to swap the processor due to the heatsink mounting system. What you do is temporarily tie off the excess wires with baggie twists instead of using zip ties. That will make it easier to disconnect everything.

It will run just fine with a Celeron-D - you will probably even think it's fast unless you are presently using a high end computer.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819112206

38 bucks, free shipping.

I wouldn't use an old video card - a PCI card will run like poo-poo and an AGP card will not fit. You could buy a placeholder PCI-E card to tide you over till you plan on installing Vista and getting into DX10 games. Something like a 7600GS or X1650 Pro will do that well - it's under 100 bucks and is not a bad performer. You could use that in a later more basic build with that Celeron.

Admin note - this thread is getting pretty long as is - please don't make multiple posts - use the Edit button or bunch up all the quotes in a single post. Thanks!

[ExPA]

All indications are that the E6600 will be dropping at the wholesale level from $316 to $224 on April 22.

Wow, and it looks like an even bigger drop for the E6700. Looks like I could get an E6700 after April 22 for what I'd pay today for the E6600. But thinking it over, and weighing the benefits and costs, I think I'm going to go ahead and get the E6600 now. I do need to put some value on the time it would take to swap the Celeron back out. But I'm sure going to remember your Celeron idea... as well as the temporary twist ties... another great idea. So thanks for all that!

I wouldn't use an old video card - a PCI card will run like poo-poo and an AGP card will not fit. You could buy a placeholder PCI-E card to tide you over till you plan on installing Vista and getting into DX10 games. Something like a 7600GS or X1650 Pro will do that well - it's under 100 bucks and is not a bad performer. You could use that in a later more basic build with that Celeron.

After searching around about DX10 games, I think I'm going to go ahead with the 7950GT now. I'd like to be able to run Oblivion, Halo 2, and others at good FPS in the near term and those are DX9 anyway. I didn't see any games on the horizon which I would feel bad about not running under DX10. Plus, I think I might build a home theater box sometime in the next couple years to hook up to my Sony WEGA Rear Proj HDTV, and I guess I could always trade up to a DX10 card in my gaming rig and move the 7950GT to my HTPC rig... same with a trade up from the E6600 to a quad core. Anyway, that's where I think I'm inclined to go at this point. Thanks for the good ideas in any case!

Admin note - this thread is getting pretty long as is - please don't make multiple posts - use the Edit button or bunch up all the quotes in a single post. Thanks!

Ulp, my bad. Sorry. But as you can see, I think I've figured out the cut and paste thing. And I'm sorry as a general matter about stretching this thread on so long. Now I'm worried about adding onto it once I start building, either to report good news that it all worked... or to ask for help if there are problems.

Even so, I can't resist asking ONE MORE QUESTION before I place the order tomorrow afternoon:

I think I understood you (glc) to suggest that the Value Select RAM 667 MHz would run things as fast as the E6600 on a Bad Axe 2 would go. But in looking over the motherboard technical spec sheet, it says the memory frequency would rise from 667 to 800 MHz if I used 800 MHz memory. If the FSB runs at 1066 MHz, wouldn't 667 RAM slow things down... at least a little? (Maybe the issue is how little?)

Thanks for any last words of wisdom!

[glc]

The ram is double data rate and the processor is quad data rate - so even 667 ram is running faster then the processor. The exact bus match would be 533 ram.

[ExPA]

The ram is double data rate and the processor is quad data rate - so even 667 ram is running faster then the processor. The exact bus match would be 533 ram.

I get it now. Thanks!

Having now achieved my threshold level of consumer comfort, I pulled the trigger and put in the following order:


Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: Nine Hundred

CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: CMPSU-520HX

EVGA 512-P2-N635-AR GeForce 7950GT 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 KO Video Card - Retail
Model #: 512-P2-N635-AR

CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory Model VS2GBKIT667D2 - Retail
Model #: VS2GBKIT667D2

2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: ST3320620AS

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Bruner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model LH-20A1S - Retail
Model #: LH-20A1S

LITE-ON Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model SHD-16S1S-05 - OEM
Model #: SHD-16S1S-05

NEC Display Solutions 90GX2-BK Black 19" 4ms DVI LCD Monitor with 4-port USB 2.0 hub - Retail
Model #: 90GX2-BK

TRIPP LITE AVR550U 550 VA 300 Watts AVR Series Line-Interactive UPS System - Retail
Model #: AVR550U

LOGISYS Computer CLK12BL 12" Cold Cathode kit - Retail
Model #: CLK12BL

LOGISYS Computer CLK12UV 12" UV COLD CATHODE KIT - Retail
Model #: CLK12UV

Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP2b 1pk w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM
Model #: E85-04964


Everything was bought from newegg except the Corsair RAM and Corsair PSU. I got these from zipzoomfly since the RAM was 139.00 rather than 149.99 and the PSU was 106.00 rather than 119.99, and free shipping for both. Prices on everything else were lower on newegg.

Prices were all higher on Directron too, but I owe them thanks because when I checked their prices on the NEC 90GX2 monitor, they had posted a $30 MIR which newegg neglected to mention. I checked the timeframe for the MIR and the authorized reseller list, and it's all good. So unless I missed something, the final price of this very sweet 19" 4ms LCD will be only 189.99. I know this is a nice monitor because I bought one for my daughter's computer a couple months ago based on its top rating in PC World... and how gorgeous I thought it looked at Best Buy (where I bought it for over $300... didn't know about newegg yet). She loves it, and I was envious of her... until now.

And I was pleased to find that SATA flavors of both Lite-On optical drives were in stock, so that's a happy switch from my earlier plan.

Total came to less than 2,000...

So now I just have to get all these parts and put them together I guess!

Once again, many thanks to everyone here who helped me out on this configuration. You folks are great.

Cheers....

[hitchface]

That's cool bro, I'm glad you took so much time putting this guy together. A smart move.

[davea33]

I don't think you listed your motherboard.
Also, how did you get free shipping on newegg?

thanks.

[ExPA]

That's cool bro, I'm glad you took so much time putting this guy together. A smart move.

Thanks hitchface! The smartest move I made was coming here first and paying attention to the advice from all you guys! Though it might be tied with pitching this to my wife as a cheaper mid-life splurge than a drop top sports car.


I don't think you listed your motherboard.
Also, how did you get free shipping on newegg?

thanks.

Right you are. Thanks for catching that. I must've cut without pasting when I reorganized the list. I ordered the Intel Bad Axe 2: Intel BOXD975XBX2KR LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail.

And the free shipping was from zipzoonfly for the Corsair RAM and Corsair PSU. This exercise reminded me of the importance of getting at least 3 price quotes on any important purchase!

[hitchface]

Indeed. As happy as I am with my box, I could have gotten a higher performance machine at comparable costs had I come here 1st and gotten recommendations. Oh well, I suppose!

[ExPA]

Well, it's built and I couldn't be happier. It went together very well and my 13 year old son, who did most of the assembly with me looking over his shoulder, is duly proud of the fact that "my dad and I built a computer!" And he loves the UV and blue cathode light tubes he added to the inside.

And by the way, this machine is blazingly fast. Can't wait to try out some games with him today once the BIOS and XP and virus scan updates are finished. It's quiet too. I can't hear it at all over the noise coming from the Dell 4100 sitting next to it.

Only problems or annoyances with this was the "free" Vista upgrade. I didn't mind paying the $11.49 shipping and handling charge, but I didn't realize getting Win XP Pro only qualified me for a 32-bit version of Vista. I guess I must've missed that fine print somewhere though I thought I read all the details pretty carefully.

So once again, many thanks to everyone here who helped with this GREAT design!

Best Regards...

[davea33]

Congratulations.
How long did it take you to build?
Also, I noticed on newegg they have
EVGA 512-P2-N635-AR GeForce 7950GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 KO Video Card - Retail (the one you built with)
and the
EVGA 512-P2-N637-AR GeForce 7950GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP KO Superclocked Video Card - Retail (the one I have spec'ed out)

Does anyone know what the difference really is besides the price?

[ExPA]

Congratulations.
How long did it take you to build?


Thanks!

As for the time it took to build, I had figured it would take my son and I most or all of the 4 days we set aside for this out of his spring break. We were done after 2 (though still loading programs). So now we'll use the extra 2 days to play some multiplayer!

Since this was my first build, and also because I wanted him to be a full participant / fellow trainee we took lots of time at each step to re-read the guides I got from here and from library books. If you put all the parts back on the table in front of me and asked me to cobble it together myself, I think I could probably do it in a couple hours. That doesn't include any intensive modding or elaborate cable routing.

And if you asked me to build another one right away, I think I'd use all the same parts again, though I'd follow glc's advice and try to hold off for a few weeks to get the CPU price reductions expected on April 22. Also, it was a close call on going ahead with the 7950GT versus using a placeholder card and waiting for a nice, affordable 8800 series card. But I have no regrets about any of the choices I made.

[LeftyAce]

Davea33: The second card is factory overclocked.