Sub $1000 Gamer Build (been a while - advice encouraged!)

[Spankjunkie]

Hello PC Mechanics:

I am starting to do the research needed to build a semi-decent gaming computer towards the end of April. I have not built a computer since 1200 AMD T-birds, then an upgrade to a 1900+ so I have been out of the game for a while. Now “semi-decent” is an opinion, but to put this in to perspective I mostly raid WoW, do some video, play a few other games here and ther and my current rig includes:

Current Rig
Intel 945 board (Sony Vaio 410)
2.67 P4
1GB PC 2100 DDR
256 Nvidia PCI-1
CD
DVD burner.
And some other junk

Basically I plan on scrapping my Old PC for parts on eBay or finding a friend who is interested in a nice internet browsing, word processing machine. Far behind today’s standards. I have been reading through Hazaro’s post as I have been considering close to what he is building.

Proposed Rig ideas and questions:

Motherboard: Asus P5B
-the question is which model? What are the differenced between the Deluxe and the Entry? Are the worth the difference in price?

Processor: Intel C2D E6600
-I figure with the upcoming price break I can’t go wrong with this baby. Does anyone have a suggestion to go with over this chip paired with the board above?

RAM: At least 2GB Dual Channel
-I was thinking Corsair gaming memory, but I want to get bang for buck without breaking the bank. Also is it in my best interest to go with 667 or 800mhz considering I may want to overclock in the future? Also does it make sense to splurge and go for 4GBs in Dual channel or wait for a price break?

Video Card: Nvidia 512?
-I am a little lost here about what is the best? Also it does not appear as if my mobo selection supports SLI…is this the way to go, or am I fine getting a decent 512 and rolling with that?

Optical Drives: DVD Burner?
-I figure I am going to want 2x of these both DVD Burners so I can do deck to deck burning. I guess only 1 burner is necessary, but at the cost, why not too?

Sound Card: Do I even need this?
-Anyone have experience with the onboard sound for the P5B?

Storage: 1x SATA 7200 drives
-I am looking for a fast large drive to run as my primary C:, I will add to this later down the road, but no rush right off the bat.

Case? I really have no clue?
-I want something that looks cool, but does not kill the pocketbook, and will keep everything nice and cool.

Powersupply? Another lost category…
-I need one with all the options for what I want to put in this thing...I do not want to end up with crap, but I have no need for top of the line either.

Any other suggestions?

Basically what I am looking for is to keep the cost of this computer sub $1000. I just purchased a Sammy 226BW to run on my current rig the other day so I am set there…I have enough keyboards and mice to start a computer ranch so I am good there. Once this beast is built I am going to sell all my old crap for parts on eBay or Craig’s list to help offset the cost? Anyone need a 21” CRT….lol?

Thanks in advance for the help.

****************
Current choices
-I have to go to a meeting, but I am going to post up my current choices with links here when I get back, and continue to update this as I go through the process of putting this PC together on paper.
****************

-Spank

[DropPoint]

First off, you don't need a soundcard because the mobo usually has onboard sound, but its not as good if you get a cheap one.

Here is some good RAM for gaming, I woulden't go for more then 3 gigs of RAM if you are using windows XP Home - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145034

For a DVD Burner, Lite-On is a good brand- check out this..- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106043

Here is a good 512 meg GPU for the money- But you don't need SLI Because it costs too much, you Would be better off getting an 8800 Model GPU, But you would need a bigger PSU.. Maybe 650-700? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143071

Here is a decent Mobo- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131028

The Antec 900 is an Ok Case- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

[Katreat]

Motherboard: Asus P5B
-the question is which model? What are the differenced between the Deluxe and the Entry? Are the worth the difference in price?

Just get what you need. I personally am going –E on my next build to get firewire but it is really a personal choice.

Processor: Intel C2D E6600
-I figure with the upcoming price break I can’t go wrong with this baby. Does anyone have a suggestion to go with over this chip paired with the board above?

Great choice, quite a performance boost over the 63/64 hundreds.

RAM: At least 2GB Dual Channel
-I was thinking Corsair gaming memory, but I want to get bang for buck without breaking the bank. Also is it in my best interest to go with 667 or 800mhz considering I may want to overclock in the future? Also does it make sense to splurge and go for 4GBs in Dual channel or wait for a price break?

Corsair is recommended. The value select at 667 will run stock speeds fine, wont see any advantage with the 800. If you are planning on overclocking, then XMS at 800 should be your choice. With rebates it was about the same price last month, not sure if that is still true.

Optical Drives: DVD Burner?
-I figure I am going to want 2x of these both DVD Burners so I can do deck to deck burning. I guess only 1 burner is necessary, but at the cost, why not too?

SLI for most people is not advised. The next generation card always beats two of the last so save money now and just upgrade when it become necessary to a new card.

Three ways to go on this one! Buy a placeholder until the new X10 cards drop in price and more competition arrives (supposedly sometime after june). You can get a nice 7600 range card for about $100 which will play current games fine for most people. The other option is to go for it now and put the money into a 8800gts or gtx. It will play everything out there and most of what will come out for the next few years at top settings so it is not a bad choice if you can afford it. The third option is buy a top of the line 9X card. You will get better performance now for half the cost of a 10X card, but you will likely spend more in the long run when 10X games start showing up and you need to upgrade. All options are good just depends on how much money you have to spend now and what upgrade path you feel suits your style.

Optical Drives: DVD Burner?
-I figure I am going to want 2x of these both DVD Burners so I can do deck to deck burning. I guess only 1 burner is necessary, but at the cost, why not too?

Lite-on are highly recommended at this site and get at least one retail so you get burning software with it. Also it is best to go SATA with the P5B board.

Sound Card: Do I even need this?
-Anyone have experience with the onboard sound for the P5B?

I understand on-board sound is very good. It is also an easy upgrade down the road so hold off tell you test it out.

Storage: 1x SATA 7200 drives
-I am looking for a fast large drive to run as my primary C:, I will add to this later down the road, but no rush right off the bat.

Most people recommend the new Seagates, again in SATA. They are fast and come with a 5 year warranty.

Case? I really have no clue?
-I want something that looks cool, but does not kill the pocketbook, and will keep everything nice and cool.

Really a personal choice! Go to newegg and just look through there selection. It is usually best to avoid cases with power supplies. If you go with an 8800 video card remember that they are very long so pick a case with lots of room.

Powersupply? Another lost category…
-I need one with all the options for what I want to put in this thing...I do not want to end up with crap, but I have no need for top of the line either.

The Corsair 520 gets great reviews and is a quality unit that will work with anything up to a single 8800 video card so it gives you some future proofing. The main thing is that you buy quality. There is a good list of quality PSUs on this forum, just pick something that will meet your power needs and comes from a quality supplier.

Kat

[Spankjunkie]

How simple and safe is it to overclock the E6600 with the P5B and 2GB of the gaming Corsair 800mhz linked above? Also I am going to be running XP Pro for another year or so, so would 2GBs of ram be adequate? With dual channel and 3GB would I need 2x 1Gs and 2x 512s...or how does that work?

Is overclocking recommended or not?

[chuck4456]

Overclocking is only as safe as the overclocker. If you are not familiar with the art, yet want to try it, it's best to read around and ask for advice from those who are very familiar with it. You can cause permanent damage to your hardware with one simple click. That can get very expensive. I do it from time to time. There's no real need with an E6600. It flies. The best deal on a DX9 card is the SAPPHIRE X1950XT. Fantastic video card. You've still got plenty of time with DX10. Enjoy yourself with that one for a while. E6600s should be app. 224.00 in about 10 more days. Based on what I've seen, it's still going to be the deal for a while. Rest looks pretty good. Definitely get a good and capable PSU!

[Spankjunkie]

Ok so no overclocking...I am fine with that. Since I am not going to overclock, 667 Ram is the way to go I assume then. I am still confused about the video and motherboard options though...P5B seems to be the way to go on this one, but there are quite a few options in that model. The video cards make my head spin too... I want something good, but I am hesitant to get in to one of these 512MB cards that are hitting the budget for $250. Are there other, less expensive, but competitive options?

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

I'm currently using the BFG 7600GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143049) in my gaming rig at the moment. It's a great card and a good price at $110.

I run one of the most graphic intensive games out right now on next to highest settings with pretty good fps. You aren't going to be able to crank every game up to max settings, but you can probably get close on most of them.

It also doesn't dent the wallet so it will leave you some cash to start saving up for when the new DX10 cards come out later this year.

[Katreat]

Video cards is always a hard choice. You need to decide what you want now and how much you are willing to pay. This is a nice little review that is pretty recent.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/06/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/index.html

Also, check out tomshardware main sight and you can get a complete comparision of just about every card out there.

[Hazaro]

Hey SpankJunkie, I updated my computer part list, since I was also unsure of DVD, case, PSU, and sound. Hope this helps.

Thread: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=178428
Picture: http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/261/computerpartstotaljpgvj4.jpg

[Spankjunkie]

Thanks for the info..I should have some more time to research this...basically I just want to know what I want so when the 22nd hits and the E6600 break comes in I can start ordering.

[Spankjunkie]

Ok, these video cards can really get expensive. When shopping for these what are the numbers that are most important for performance so I have a nice way to compare and put them side by side:

I am looking for
-512MB
-PCI Express x16

...but when it comes to the rest of these specs, such as PixelPipelines, Memory Clock, Core Clock...and others.

Basically I am trying to discern for my use what I am going to need and use, without overpaying for something that I will not. Like in the example of the DDR RAM, if I am not going to overclock then I am overpaying for 800mhz over 667mhz speed. Is there a similar rule in the V-card specs? I was hoping to keep the card under $200, without sacraficing leaps and bounds in performance, but this is hard to decipher since the game has changed so much since my last build and upgrades...

-Spank

[Khalil]

The most important number is the memory interface you can have a 512mb card that is 64 bit and it will suck carrot juice.
The memory size is not that important at this stage. 256MB is plenty enough to play any game on the market. You need 256 bit memory interface though.
Next thing you want to look for is the bandwidth, Core Clock speed, the higher the better, then the memory clock speed.
If you want a lot of detail and more eye candy then an ATI card might be the way to go.
If you are a pvpr then maybe an Nvidia will work better for you.
I have owned top of the line from both Nvidia and ATI, they are both fantastic video cards but I found ATI display to be richer. Again that is in my eyes, others may strongly disagree.
Here is a card I highly recommend, great warranty, great customer support and it rocks any game on the market with ease.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102067

[Katreat]

Ok, these video cards can really get expensive. When shopping for these what are the numbers that are most important for performance so I have a nice way to compare and put them side by side:

I am looking for
-512MB
-PCI Express x16

...but when it comes to the rest of these specs, such as PixelPipelines, Memory Clock, Core Clock...and others.

Basically I am trying to discern for my use what I am going to need and use, without overpaying for something that I will not. Like in the example of the DDR RAM, if I am not going to overclock then I am overpaying for 800mhz over 667mhz speed. Is there a similar rule in the V-card specs? I was hoping to keep the card under $200, without sacraficing leaps and bounds in performance, but this is hard to decipher since the game has changed so much since my last build and upgrades...

-SpankLook at page 7 of the link I posted above, it has a ranking of almost every mainstream video card out there. It is not perfect perhaps, but an easy way to compair cards that are a step up or a step down.

[Spankjunkie]

Okay...here is what I have come up with so far...currently listed at about $1078 but I am going to wait until 4/22 to order so I can get the break on the C2D. Please let me know if you see any problems or have any suggestions with my proposed build here. If I am missing something, overpaying and should get something else. I figure I will just get all the items from one place and I am willing to make substitutes should something be insufficient for what I need. Check it out and let me know.

Thanks

-Spank

DVD Burner 1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106055
DVD Burner 2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106072
Case w/ Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811144026
HDD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148136
GPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814130061
RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820231055
MOBO
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131043
CPU
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115003

[Alaron]

No need for double burners. Switch the LiteOn that doesnt have Nero with a plain DVDROM. That's all you need to read and burn everything.

The power supply in that case will have to be replaced. Check here for our list: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

Since you're using a video card, no need for the VM motheboard. Just get the P5B vanilla.

The rest is solid.

[HarshWinter]

?item=N82E16827106072[/url]
Case w/ Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811144026

That power supply is going to blow. Get a Antecs are some of the only case/psu combos.
But would buy a separate psu from case.

To see if a psu check this list
http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

Suggest PSU (this one will be good 4 a dx10 vidcard if u upgrade)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139001
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373100

Edit: Alaron, you beat me to it :)

[Spankjunkie]

Is the GPU I have listed here a good buy, or would you take a step down and wait for more affordable DX10 cards, or step up in to a Nvidia 8800 DX10 320MB card now?

GPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130061

Also...I want to make certain that the 667 RAM I am grabbing will suffice for my use. Or is it recommended to jump up to the 800mhz RAM?

Do you have a case that is affordable and has good cooling....I doubt I will have a heat problem, but better safe then sorry.

EDIT: Also when you said go with the Vanilla board...did you mean this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131030
*or am I missing something...this one is actually more expensive then the other board options.

I also found this memory and wonder if this would be better then the set I have listed above: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145098


-Spank

[Spankjunkie]

In a power supply how many Watts will I need for the parts listed? I see quite a few utilizing that Clio 450W PS...

[Cricket]

A 450 watt XClio PSU should be enough for the parts you have listed. But if you plan to get a really potent video card you may need to look at 550 watt PSUs. Don't go cheap on the power supply either, it's the most important part of the computer and you should get a good quality unit.

:) Cricket

[Alaron]

We have been recommending that new builders go with 7600GT or 7900GS cards to wait for more affordable DX10 cards. Both of these cards can be found for very attractive prices and still game very well.

That is the correct P5B model.

I'd go with Corsair over GSkill for the RAM.

[Spankjunkie]

We have been recommending that new builders go with 7600GT or 7900GS cards to wait for more affordable DX10 cards. Both of these cards can be found for very attractive prices and still game very well.


Hmmmm?

Do both those cards come in 512MB sets, or should I be concerned with a different stat?

[Katreat]

The 7900 GS is a newer model and will out perform the 7600 GT. check out this compairison chart at toms hardware. The 7900 GS will also cost more. What you really need to decide is how much you want to spend now and how much you want to spend down the road for a 10X upgrade. The 7600 is often recommended because it is only about $100 and will play most games very good. It is an excellent placeholder. There are lots better, but you will pay a price to get them.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=584&model2=529&chart=196

[Alaron]

You seem caught up on the 512MB of memory. That is not a true indicator of performance. There are dozens of variables involved in video card performance. True, the extra memory is nice when you are playing at very high resolutions, ie more than 1280x1024, but if not, it is overkill. Check out the benchmarks Katreat linked to, the 7900GS is a great card for the money and will play any game out there for some time to come.

And to be fair, there is a 512MB model of the 7900GS from MSI on Newegg, but it is not worth the higher cost.

[Spankjunkie]

I have been playing most of my games in 1680 x 1050 on this Sammy 226BW...just want to make sure that the card will push this badboy to my liking...I checked out the links...and I am going back and forth on what to get.

I will have more time to look in to this tomorrow.

Thanks for all of the input thus far

Spank

[Spankjunkie]

Here is my current and up to day spec. I have made some adjustments and would like any more recommendations that you may have. I know that the PSU is not recommended, but I figure I can roll with what comes in the case and see about making an upgrade here down the road. Do you think that the PSU in this build will handle all my wattage needs?

DVD Burner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106057
DVD Rom: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106038
Case w/ PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811156062
HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148136
GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814130021
Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145167
Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131030
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115003

[Katreat]

I understand that video cards can be confusing, and to make it even more so you can see if you check out different benchmarks that all the variables perform differently depending on the benchmark you are using. Some games ATI excels at even though on paper a Nvidia might look like better card and visa versa. Change the benchmark and cards will move around. So you might want to choose a benchmark game that is most like your favorite games.

If you really want fantastic gaming right now I would recommend this card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102067

This card will rock anything out there today and at $ 190 after rebate it is a bargain. The problem is it is also about to become obsolete. When you see something as big as 10X on the horizon it is hard to recommend that people spend even $90 extra for yesterdays technology. But if you want top end performance today and have a little extra cash this card Rocks!

You just need to understand that anything you buy today, below the Nvidia 8800 threshold, is a placeholder which will need to be replaced in the not too distant future when 10X becomes the standard.

Kat

[Spankjunkie]

So, who you suggest the 8800 now, or is it suggested to wait. I am of course speaking of the lower end models of these?

[Katreat]

So, who you suggest the 8800 now, or is it suggested to wait. I am of course speaking of the lower end models of these?The 8800 from all I have read is a great card and it has more than just 10x support. It is the best card avaliable. Personally though I would wait because with no competition it is expensive! Further, it is more than you need for most gaming by a long shot so you have time before the gaming industry even catches up to its capabilities. By end of the year, if all the planned releases happen, there should be an entire string of 10X cards to choose from and prices will be competatively based.

I have never purchased a top end card. I always look for the sweet spot a generation back and try to save a few hundered bucks. The problem right now is that all the past generation cards are becomming not just dated, but obsolete, because they lack the new 10X standard. That is why most people are recommending a moderately priced placeholder that will play games relatively good for now and then upgrading to 10X when prices drop.

It looks like both Nvidia and ATI are going to release not just new top end cards but replacements for their current crop of middle of the road cards also, all with 10X support. So hopefully buy years end you can find the sweet spot in the market and not have to give up 10X to get it.

[Spankjunkie]

Ok I am narrowing the final selections down here, but I have a few final questions that I seem to be teetering back and forth with...

1.) Which RAM would you go with?

G.Skill 800mhz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098#spec

or will I get better performance out of the....

CORSAIR XMS2 675mhz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145167

2.) For primarilly World of Warcraft gaming, and set in as a placeholder until the DX10 cards really break in to the market is it better to get the 7600GS 512MB, or the 7600GT 256MB listed below?

EVGA 512-P2-N548-TX GeForce 7600GS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814130021

or...

EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130062

I am working on my case and power supply options today. What I would like to do is keep it below $120 for both case and PSU, I am not concerned with style, I am concerned with functionality. I want a PSU that can handle what I have now, and have some room in wattage for upgrades. The case I just want it to be cool and quiet.

Let me know if you have opinoins when you get a chance.

Thanks

-Spank

[Spankjunkie]

I read a while back on here where there was a link to see if certain RAM was ok to use on certain ASUS boards. I have since been unable to find that on this forum and cannot seem to find where ASUS has hidden these guides on their site. If someone has this link or can find it and post it that would be great.

I just want to make sure that the RAM I am selecting will work with my motherboard.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145167
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145015

Also, which of the above is actually better...they seem the same on paper to me.


Thanks

-Spank

[Katreat]

If you are not overclocking then all you need is Corsair Value Select 667 RAM. You dont really need to spend money for the XMS and you will see no advantage in going with faster memory (800)

If you plan on overclocking then faster memory is recommended. Corsair XMS 800 is known to work wonderfully with the Asus MoBo so it is often recommened.

Both those video cards should play WOW wonderfully. I play WOW using a X800XT which is older but generally compairable with the 7600GS and I run everything on top settings. The 7600 GT is a faster card, usually listed a couple steps ahead of the GS.

I am not sure how the amount of memory on the GS would effect the perform for a game like WOW. Someone with a better understanding of video cards would have to clear that up. My gut feeling is that the speed increase from the GT, which is quite substantial, would be more advantages but as I already posted I think both would play the game just fine.

[Spankjunkie]

I just got my PC together, and booted up BIOS recognized all components, but needs an upgrade from 0706 to 1206 or something...i forget the exact numbers. I am installing windows at the moment and the available space is stated as 131070MB...now I am running a Seagate 500G 7200.10 in here on SATA, and I was just wondering if something like this is normal to see.

Config:

P5B
E6600 C2D
Barracuda Segate 500G 7200.10 SATA
EVGA 7900GS
other crap....

...let me know when you get a chance.

-Spankj

[Cricket]

I am installing windows at the moment and the available space is stated as 131070MB...now I am running a Seagate 500G 7200.10 in here on SATA, and I was just wondering if something like this is normal to see.What version of Windows are you using? If WinXP, is it SP1, SP2 or the original version? You need at least SP1 to get past the 137GB hard drive limitation of WinXP.

:) Cricket

[Spankjunkie]

Ah...that must be it...hmm

Ok...I have a plan...lets hope it works...

[Spankjunkie]

Okay, I have been thinking about this but I can't figure out the best option to actually perform this process....

If I load XP, and upgrade the service pack will it then recognize the drive size or will I need to do something else?

In my head I can't seem to figure the best approach for this....my XP disc is old...pre SP1...would slipstreaming do the trick?

[Alaron]

If you load the XP disc you have, it will recognize 137GB. Then after you install SP1, you would be able to use Disk Management to format and use the rest of the drive. You would have two letters though, C: and maybe E:. To combine them you would need Partition Magic.

That being said, your second idea is what you need to do. By slipstreaming SP2 into XP, you will be able to setup the drive right the first time around. http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sp2_slipstream.asp