Microsoft's Vista Strategy

[mairving]

It looks like Microsoft is going to encourage people to go to Vista.

Time is Running Out for Windows XP (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130657-c,xp/article.html)

Microsoft will force PC makers to stop selling machines running XP by the end of this year, despite ongoing compatibility problems and demand for XP from users.

[Pride]

[QUOTE=]"Many home users - especially gamers - do consider XP the 'greatest' - especially after all the media articles and benchmarks showing very poor gaming performance and compatibility on Vista," wrote another.QUOTE]


I dont understand this. I have played many games old and new on Vista. I keep hearing this issue but have yet to expirence it.

[EzyStvy]

Looks like the same Strategy since the DOS days...

[OHPM-Inc]

They gave the XBox about a year worth of production before they stopped it after the XBox 360 came out. I guess Microsoft just has that much power over us, they think we need them more than they need us so they'll do whatever they want when they want. :(

[Strider]

Microsoft is in the business of making money and from that perspective I can understand their move. Some people don't like change and sometimes the only way to get them to accept it is to give them no other option. I really don't see what the big deal is for the people who are complaining already own Windows XP and it's not like they have to rush out tomorrow to buy a copy of Windows XP for they have almost a year to do it.

[mbossman2]

"Many home users - especially gamers - do consider XP the 'greatest' - especially after all the media articles and benchmarks showing very poor gaming performance and compatibility on Vista," wrote another.

and before that Win 98 was the "greatest" when XP came out and before that it was 95 when 98 came out....

and it'll be "Vista was the greatest" when windows whatever comes out 3-5 years from now...

folks don't like to change

[Pride]

and before that Win 98 was the "greatest" when XP came out and before that it was 95 when 98 came out....

and it'll be "Vista was the greatest" when windows whatever comes out 3-5 years from now...

folks don't like to change


I dont think microsoft plans to release another o/s for more years than anyone is exspecting. They created the vista 64 bit to be the next os.

I belive it will be 8-10 years honestly before there is another one. Or maybe that is drastic but i think its meant to be.

They created 64 bit to be the best of security and totally upgradable. Not only that but it can support more ram and better processors than are even known in the computer world. And thats on a personal pc not a networking system.

[David M]

If Microsoft wants to play that game then people simply will not buy a new computer until Vista is working better than XP and Vista offers something that is worth paying a few hundred dollars for.

[Pride]

If Microsoft wants to play that game then people simply will not buy a new computer until Vista is working better than XP and Vista offers something that is worth paying a few hundred dollars for.


Your wrong. Maybe SOME people will not but only the same people that do it everytime a new OS is released. And imo Vista is the most polished OS microsoft has ever had at first release. As well as getting it now by the time SP1 is released i will all ready have all of the updates. I mean i constantly get security and whatever kinds of updates.

People are not being logical about Vista imo.

Everyone i know that has truly given Vista a shot and that were open minded about it seem to love it. And give it praises.

[David M]

Your wrong.

I don't think I am wrong. I think that I think more like the typical consumer than a computer geek who does not mind experimenting with, modifying and tweaking his computer constantly.

First of all, there must be a good reason to update an operating system. Primarily that there must be things in the new OS that you either need or want that XP does not provide. Other than some eye candy, Vista is not much of an upgrade over XP. Microsoft removed the really nice stuff they had planned on releasing in Vista.

Secondly, and also very important, the new OS must work as good or better than the old OS. From what I have been reading, Vista still has more problems overall than does XP. I certainly understand why...but the fact remains that it does have more problems than XP regardless.

To emphasize my second point, today I heard a story of a diesel parts company located near me who can't pay bills or invoice or even get emails because they "upgraded" to Vista. They cant even reverse the damage and go back to XP because Microsoft did not provide for the possibility that Vista might screw things up. That's certainly not very good thinking on Microsoft's part especially for their business customers.

Even if i was given Vista for free, I would not load it until it becomes a better operating system than XP. I need my computer to work..I am not interested in experimenting on it. I simply don't want to hassle with it and potentially cause my old software to not work. It is NOT worth taking the risk. XP works fine for me and that's how I want to keep things.

Ultimately if Microsoft wants to play hardball by trying to force Vista on me before Vista is ready for the masses then screw em...I will go buy a Mac that can run my PC software. At least with a Mac I know I wont be scrambling around trying to make it work.

[YukonMaster]

They will not stop making new versions of Windows until it is 100% Bug free, 100% Virus-proof, and cannot be attacked by spyware. They will probably not accomplish this anytime soon because we already know how to get into the inner workings of Vista.

[Pride]

I don't think I am wrong. I think that I think more like the typical consumer than a computer geek who does not mind experimenting with, modifying and tweaking his computer constantly.

First of all, there must be a good reason to update an operating system. Primarily that there must be things in the new OS that you either need or want that XP does not provide. Other than some eye candy, Vista is not much of an upgrade over XP. Microsoft removed the really nice stuff they had planned on releasing in Vista.




Well how old are you?...

1. People like eye candy.

2. People like to have the newest and greatest.

3. People get bored with the same ol' thing all the time.

I think that this holds true for the general public. Give someone the choice between a Ferrari and a Crown Victoria. The crown vic is safer/more stable way to go. and the Ferriari is the Eye Candy and the "new" type of thing. What car you think they will choose?...It is the same kind of deal.

Now where this may change is in older people it seems that they dont much like change and would much rather take the safe and sure thing. Now i cannot answer why and of course this is only a broad generalization and observation since i am sure to be one of the younger members of this site at 18.

While obviously there is a decent size of buyers for computers that are of Sr. age it is still nearly not as much as there is of the younger. And most older people do not buy new computers all that often. Occasionally you have one that breaks the mold and is more technology inclind but keep in mind that is not the norm.

Im sorry but I would say that you are not the typical buy and in which case you would be wrong again. :p






4. Do you own Vista and how much time in all honesty have you spent on it?


They will not stop making new versions of Windows until it is 100% Bug free, 100% Virus-proof, and cannot be attacked by spyware. They will probably not accomplish this anytime soon because we already know how to get into the inner workings of Vista.

NOTHING is uncrackable. All they can do is make it harder and delay it. But absolutly nothing is uncrackable. But they made Vista to have the capability to update and better help against this. It is all they can do.

Ultimatly it is up to the user to get smarter.

And the 64 Bit version is the best yet.

[David M]

If you're way of thinking was the majority of what most people are thinking then Vista would be flying off the shelves...and it is not. The poor sales figures are a direct reflection of what the publics reaction is to Vista.

In fact, Microsoft is very disappointed with sales.

As far as eye candy, I don't think people really care if their OS has cartoonish special effects. You use an operating system to run software. The OS is not the show, it's what runs the show.

Just because I do not have Vista does not mean I am incapable of reading the hundreds of negative articles of personal experiences with Vista that are in magazines and on the internet. You don't need to be dead to know what goes on at a funeral.

[Pride]

If the general public thought Vista was the greatest thing since sliced bread then it would be selling like...hotcakes (to use two ancient analogies)....and it is not. In fact, Microsoft is very disappointed with the sales.


Its not doing any worse than any other version of Windows. Microsoft is always dissapointed in sales they set their aim too high. No biggie. And honestly it would sell like hotcakes you wanna know why it isnt?...Tell me how many people can afford to go out and pull 150 or so dollers out and put it on something that is not on a high priority need.

Same reason someone would go with a Crown Victoria over a Ferriari. Same reason someone will settle for a computer with 512 ram over 2 gigs of ram.

Its all about Economics.


You did not answer number 4 by the way.

[David M]

read again.

No, Vista is a true unexpected disappointment for Microsoft...much more than anticipated...unlike all the other releases. Wall Street was also surprised as reflected in its share price over the past few months.

You make my point in saying that it also makes no economic sense for most people.

I'm done debating...you can have the last word. :)

[Pride]

Just because I do not have Vista does not mean I am incapable of reading the hundreds of negative articles of personal experiences with Vista that are in magazines and on the internet. You don't need to be dead to know what goes on at a funeral.


I suggest making your own choices. There are also millions of car accidents. Does this mean it holds true for everyone? I dont think so.


Good i like having the last word :p

by the way that means i win. hehe *giggles like a girl*

[Panama Red]

I sit here typing on my Vista Ultimate machine and wonder why so many non Vista users have so many negative things to say about it. I have yet to have a single problem caused by Vista. My sound doesn't work right but that's a Soundmax/Asus problem because they haven't bothered to rework the driver for my old P4P800-Dx motherboard. Sure there's going to be software that isn't Vista ready yet so folks need to take precautions. I have my XP twin to this machine sitting right next to me - just in case I need to revert back to it. Anyone who upgrades a vital business machine to Vista without checking with their software vendors is asking for trouble. Alll the beta testing in the world isn't going to reveal ALL of the possible problems that can occur with a new operating system.

David, if you based all your buying decisions on what others say, I doubt you would be drivng a Chrysler Crossfire (I think my memory is correct on this one). Many reviews of that vehicle were less than kind, especially the ones by the Euro loving folks. It just doesn't compare to a BMW, Mercedes, etc, etc, etc. Personally, I think it's a great looking car and if I had the exta money, I'd buy one too. It's one of the few cars my wife and I both like. But the majority of reviews I remember reading gave it medium to low marks.

Bottom line, you MS bashers that haven't even tried Vista need to back off. These threads are becoming all to similar to the AMD vs Intel and ATI vs nVidia. Won't be long and these will be closed too.:(

[chuck4456]

Anyone that has aquired experience with Operating Systems can make either work exactly as it should.

[hitchface]

I'll step in and say that Vista does indeed look very pretty, and now that I have had a week or so with it I can navigate a little better. But honestly, had I known that Dell was still selling XP machines that weren't refurbs, I would have gone with that. My problem with Vista isn't so much that it was made, but that it is being pressed on people who don't really want it, to some degree. At some point, Vista will be running slick, and the hardware will be here to keep up the pace. Until then, the same people will make the same complaints.

I agree that the complaints are annoying, and I never thought I would join that choir. Honestly though, if the same complaints come up EVERY time, then EVERY time something isn't going like it should. At least it makes sense to me. It is frustrating when something that is becoming mainstream doesn't work as well as "outdated" tech.

[YukonMaster]

XP is Vista's competition. Not mac or linux but people are so hesitant on switching from XP to Vista but they have good reasons for it.

[hitchface]

They get a lot of money off of both though.

[Pride]

I'll step in and say that Vista does indeed look very pretty, and now that I have had a week or so with it I can navigate a little better. But honestly, had I known that Dell was still selling XP machines that weren't refurbs, I would have gone with that. My problem with Vista isn't so much that it was made, but that it is being pressed on people who don't really want it, to some degree. At some point, Vista will be running slick, and the hardware will be here to keep up the pace. Until then, the same people will make the same complaints.

I agree that the complaints are annoying, and I never thought I would join that choir. Honestly though, if the same complaints come up EVERY time, then EVERY time something isn't going like it should. At least it makes sense to me. It is frustrating when something that is becoming mainstream doesn't work as well as "outdated" tech.


Umm, Yeah, It's the same people with the same complaints. Frankly to be blunt and honest 95% of those people complaining just flat out don't have a valid complaint they are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Or just don't know what they are talking about.

I have never heard an exscuse that was actually true. And no one has any ground to stand on when it comes to a legit debate against Vista. Infact most people that actually OWN Vista have no complaints. The ones that do complain are complaining about almost literally nothing they just think they want to complain.

People need to stop complaining about stuff that has nothing to do with Vista. Even the compatibility issues have nothing to do with Vista. And honeslty there are not many issues at all with any of the major programs or software.

Just give it a rest i feel this discussion is over. :confused:


I think the only GOOD exscuse to not switch over (if your not a business) is just saying "i don't want to" you don't even need a reason for that. Some people just don't like change and i cannot argue with that.

[hitchface]

If programs aren't compatible with Vista, the solution isn't to not get the programs, it is to not get Vista. David M said it very well in that it isn't the show, but it does run it. If it can't run the show, it isn't worth the time and the money.

Bro, if nobody has a legitimate debate, there wouldn't be complaints of this volume. People don't complain just for the sake of complaining, they do it because they aren't happy about something. When a LOT of people aren't happy about the same stuff, you can generally assume that they aren't all dithering fools who haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about.

[Pride]

No trust me people love to complain. It makes them feel like they are doing something.

And name EVERYTHING that YOU havey personally found that DOESN'T run on Vista and ill show you 3 or 4 PAGES of things that does. On top of that im sure I could find stuff that isn't on the list that work as well.

[hitchface]

The issue here is that things that people want to work, don't work. I don't really care too much if a trillion things work in Vista if what I need doesn't.

I don't know if you feel this way, but your posts suggest that you are taking a personal offense to negative comments about Vista. If it works for your needs, thats fantastic, and all the power to ya, buddy. However, it DOESN'T work for what I need, and I am not the only one. You can't tell people that their complaints aren't legit when they have tried the software and it doesn't work.

[Pride]

The issue here is that things that people want to work, don't work. I don't really care too much if a trillion things work in Vista if what I need doesn't.

I don't know if you feel this way, but your posts suggest that you are taking a personal offense to negative comments about Vista. If it works for your needs, thats fantastic, and all the power to ya, buddy. However, it DOESN'T work for what I need, and I am not the only one. You can't tell people that their complaints aren't legit when they have tried the software and it doesn't work.

No, nothing personal I just like debating/argueing. Debate class was always nice :rolleyes:

But what I am saying is things people need to work do infact work. You named AVG, SpyBot, Kaspersky, Norton PcAnywhere in your rant.

And well im using SpyBot, AVG and I am pretty sure Norton works. Not sure about PcAnywhere and Kaspersky is not yet compatible. But honestly i dont like norton ANYTHING of norton and most people i know dont care for it either. Kaspersky is good but not the best and no better than AVG. The products that most people use work.

Like i said before make a list of 10 things that YOU PERSONALLY have come across that are not compatible.

Or even a list of 5. You have 1 or 2 named for you already.

[hitchface]

Before that I just want to clarify that pcAnywhere is a VPN solution, not antivirus. The only reason I use it is because that's what the host computer has. That, CSVed, winscp3, coreFTP Lite and Mach 10 all don't work.

[Pride]

Before that I just want to clarify that pcAnywhere is a VPN solution, not antivirus. The only reason I use it is because that's what the host computer has. That, CSVed, winscp3, coreFTP Lite and Mach 10 all don't work.


Lol to be completly honest the only one that I even know what it is, is coreFTP and i still never heard of it i just know what an FTP is lol.

Anyways im tired an sore so im off to bed. I'll pick this debate back up tomorrow if the thread isnt locked ;) night.


By the way, do you really fly planes? I need a ride to michigan

[hitchface]

That's ok, my line of work is somewhat obscure to those who aren't in it, and even is to those who ARE in it. Most of those programs don't get any use beyond this job.

And yeah I do fly planes...in training right now for my commercial. I'd love to fly you to Michigan, but I'd need to get out there from Three Hills, AB. Trust me, it's cheaper to go on an airline anyways :rolleyes:

[perkster]

ok i dont have vista, and dont plan to have it for a bit, afterall i have XP and its working fine so why change? however when i do build my new comp im planning i wont be afraid to put vista on it.

my main concern at moment is that vista needs 1.5-2gb ram to work efficiently, i have 1gb on my existing machine so do not want vista on it. Thats not to say vista is bad, afterall it can cope with more ram, and supports you in having better hardware and future upgrades.

I think XP-vista is a bigger step up than 98SE to XP was, and its different enough to mean people have to do slight re-learning basics and navigation which some people do not have the patience for.

The one thing i think is wrong is people like dell selling new machines that are barely vista capable, because while it will give them the latest OS it will not give them the best experience with it as the computer will just about be able to cope rather than thriving with it.

i think they should either have 1.5-2gb min on all vista machines they sell or should at least warn users about the experience.

[mbossman2]

the true success or failure of many computer products (and windows is no different) is the how/if/when business America adopts that specific product.

When you look at businesses, they tend to be very slow to adopt an evolutionary technology and something like Vista is adopted even more slowly. (BTW I work for a top line technology company and mine is included in this...we adopted XP less than 18 months ago as the corporate standard, only 5 years after XP was released)

the reason for this is many businesses thrive and survive with proprietary/custom applications, many of which are absolutely mission critical, and changing the operating system may (and in many cases probably does) cause significant issues with those applications.

So extensive (and expensive) testing is done to hammer out all of the bugs in their application interoperability before it is even piloted with a small number of confined users (which usually uncovers all sorts of other issues). While this is happening, the company is then looking at how to roll out this change to all their users (creating and working on a standard platform has the effect of saving approximately 40% in your support costs and that is A LOT of $$) without causing massive disruptions. think about how YOU would roll out a new operating system to 500 employees and you have to do so (1) without disrupting their productivity, (2) without losing any of their files, (3) you have to do all of this in a period of less than 5 days and (4) you hav a support staff ratio of 1 IT support person for every 100 employees.

While what consumers want/need/desire IS important, it is not the key to a products success (unless that is its target market)...the key for a broadbased technology product is corporate adoption....corporate owned computing platforms far out number the consumer owned platforms.

if you doubt that: I work with 3000 people on my campus so that is 3000 windows PCs + 1500 Unix type workstations (developers have both, one set attached to the internet accessible network and the others connected to the truly private, non-internet connected network for security purposes) + the auxilary server farm of approximately 300 individual production servers and another 100 or so in the "test" environment. These numbers also do not include the PCs for training purposes, engineering test beds, customer demonstrations and the like. I figure that the for every 1 employee there are at least 2 computing platforms (and this campus does not house any of our "main" data centers or "main" engineering sites or customer demo sites on those I beleive the number jumps to 4 or 5 to 1). the average consumer probably owns 1, maybe 2 PCs per household...

based upon all of that, I would not consider Vista a success until business America begins to wholeheartedly adopt it..

And as you can see from above, Dell is still shipping XP thru its business lines and probably will continue to do so for the foreseeable future (while MS ceases shipments of the "older" OS to small OEMs and retail versions, the major players continue to have access to them for quite sometime...their corporate customers demand that)

[mystvearn]

Then they will buy other OEM or give vouchers to people to buy the XP retail?

Well as long as XP still has updates, I am still using it.

[David M]

.

David, if you based all your buying decisions on what others say, I doubt you would be drivng a Chrysler Crossfire (I think my memory is correct on this one). Many reviews of that vehicle were less than kind, especially the ones by the Euro loving folks. It just doesn't compare to a BMW, Mercedes, etc, etc, etc. Personally, I think it's a great looking car and if I had the exta money, I'd buy one too. It's one of the few cars my wife and I both like. But the majority of reviews I remember reading gave it medium to low marks.
(

Panama,
Under the sheet metal a Crossfire SRT is a Mercedes SLK that was built by Karmann in Germany. It is 99% foreign parts and comes with a tighter sports suspension than the SLK which puts the handling up there with high end Mercedes and Porsches. I purchased it based on Mercedes reputation and having read plenty of reviews. I have owned it for a year now almost to the day and have had zero problems with 21k on the odometer. Apparently we read different reviews because the only complaint I read was that the steering is worm and screw and not rack and pinion and the fact that the car is too small for someone who is 6 ft 4 inches of which I am shorter. :) There were plenty of complaints about cosmetic items but then that is a very subjective matter. I also got the feeling that many and know for a fact that some of the reviewers are foreign car snobs and it's always been their agenda to trash cars with American labels.

I don't think I am being inconsistent buying this car based on reviews and stating negative things about Vista and the publics current negative perception of Vista. Simply put, the public is wise to Microsoft and their new OS releases and that it is best to wait for the vast majority of the problems to go away before buying. One persons experience with Vista, such as yours and having few problems, does not reflect the overall amount of problems this OS is having according to the reviews that I have been reading.

I don't think I am being inconsistent at all.

[IntegraGSR]

If something works (XP), why change it? I understand the need to learn and tinker because that's what geeks do, but I can't tell you how many of my clients/friends have used Vista and asked where they could buy a copy of XP to install over it.

[Pride]

I don't think I am being inconsistent buying this car based on reviews and stating negative things about Vista and the publics current negative perception of Vista. Simply put, the public is wise to Microsoft and their new OS releases and that it is best to wait for the vast majority of the problems to go away before buying. One persons experience with Vista, such as yours and having few problems, does not reflect the overall amount of problems this OS is having according to the reviews that I have been reading.

I don't think I am being inconsistent at all.

No, The PUBLIC is not wise. You choose to listen to the many negative reviews which are all of the SAME complaints and really those complaints are drama queen type complaints.

Simple fact is you have yet to try it for yourself yet you CHOOSE to listen and belive the negative complaints which all are from the same type of people. And CHOOSE to ignore all of the many good comments about Vista.

Might i add the PUBLIC voted Bush into the white house not once but twice all the while complaining they didn't want him.

[hitchface]

No politics. Might start up something ugly ;)

Like I said, there is good to Vista, it isn't all bad. It is bad enough, however to keep a lot of people from it.

[HAL9000]

Careful Pride.... you're potentially opening a political discussion which isn't allowed here.

[Pride]

Careful Pride.... you're potentially opening a political discussion which isn't allowed here.

Oops yeah true. I didnt mean it as so the point i meant to get accross was the "all the while complaining about him part" :rolleyes:

[MaxRat]

This thread like most others that debate stuff is getting to the point of being pointless.....

Is doesnt matter is Vista is better or worse than XP...but what does matter is...the people who have Vista like it and feel it was worth the cost...

I have been running Vista since the early Beta's and I can personally tell you some of the beta 2's run a bit better than the initial release...atleast for me....

Networking was quicker...Media Player would automatically pull your music across the network and load it for you on the Vista rig if you elected to when prompted....

There are some features that were/are omited from earlier beta's but hey...whatever...

Vista is suposed to be better but just the oposite of XP if that makes any sence...

It does have issues just like ANY OS in it's initial release form....My only issue with it right now is sound quality...

Sound quality from Media Player seems to vary too much from MS OS's...I am Triple Booting between XPpro, XP64 and Vista-32 and for me the best sound I have yet to match comes from XP64...I am not sure why but thats the way it is...both XPpro and XP64 both use Media Player 10....Vista uses 11..and I think most part is due to the DRM...

and as soon as I figure out how to disable it I will know...

But all in all Vista has some decent features...Just about everything I have thrown at it works fine with UAP off....with it on it's a long drawn hassle that has Advil written all over it...;)

It's all good if someone likes Vista and runs it while others use XP...it's called Opinions and sometimes we should keep these to ourselves and all it does is waste valuable real estate space here when we could be contributing to something more important or more worthyness of a post...;)

I for one am glad post counts dont count in here...;)

Back to Lurking....;)

[Panama Red]

...it's called Opinions and sometimes we should keep these to ourselves and all it does is waste valuable real estate space here when we could be contributing to something more important or more worthyness of a post...;)




A big AMEN! from me.:D

[David M]

The public has voted with their pocketbooks as reflected in sales. That's not my opinion....it is fact. Even Steve Balmer has admitted to poor sales.

http://news.com.com/Sales+of+boxed+Vista+copies+down+over+XP/2100-1016_3-6159700.html

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/04/05/vista.awareness/

http://digg.com/tech_news/Ballmer_Blames_Pirates_for_Poor_Vista_Sales

http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9011360&intsrc=hm_list

http://slashdot.org/articles/07/02/16/1654202.shtml

[YukonMaster]

The one thing i think is wrong is people like dell selling new machines that are barely vista capable, because while it will give them the latest OS it will not give them the best experience with it as the computer will just about be able to cope rather than thriving with it.

i think they should either have 1.5-2gb min on all vista machines they sell or should at least warn users about the experience.


It says on the label, Vista Capable, (if currently running XP) or it will be running the version of Vista that will perform the best for that computer. I found that running Vista Home Premium on my laptop (specs below) runs nice even with aero. You wouldn't be able to do any AutoCAD or image editing etc. with that amount of ram but it isn't bad.

AMD TL50 Turion X2 1.6 Ghz
1 Gb DDR2 Ram