The iPhone is coming!

[mbossman2]

Are you going to jump to AT&T to have one?

[Brad the best]

you can only have an iphone with AT&T ? thats ridiculous

[SonicVanguard]

It's AT&T only - which is ridiculous simply because GSM's EDGE technology is so stinkin' slow compared to CDMA's EV-DO.

But to answer the Moose - I like he phone I have and I'm very happy with Sprint as my provider. So....No.

[faint545]

iPhone supports Cingular as well but AT&T and Cingular just recently merged so.. they're pretty much the same..

[Lespaul20]

The Cingular brand name is not longer. It's all AT&T. But I'm not switching providers for a $500 phone. I think the price will drop just like every other mobile device and unless there is a major contract between Apple and AT&T I think we'll probably see it on other networks. Maybe then might I consider it.

[Floppyman]

Let's see...dropping $500 + monthly service contract as a poor student? No way. I'd much rather take that kind of money and invest it.

[rspassey]

I'm already with AT & T, and i wont be getting the i phone.

[Hi Ho]

As far as I'm concerned, Verizon is the only provider with decent coverage in Western Washington and there is no way I'm switching to AT&T for the Iphone even though I think it is a very slick device. Coverage and customer service is far more important to me than a cool phone. Besides, I really like my KRZR. :)

[whubbard]

Well I'm trading in my MDA for the Wing tomorrow (t-mobile...international coverage is amazing)

so no...no iphone me! (thank god)

[David M]

There are those who do want one...like over a million people who have already placed an order.

My employer pays for my cell phone and I have no need for internet access 24/7 so there is no sense in buying an iPhone.

[tigstah]

oh yea, its a great phone. the marketing is very nice. all the finger-touching flipping and all that. but no i wont be getting one. i have to many other people sucking money from my pockets. what i am going to do tho is get a cell phone from someone who wants to get out so they can get an iphone. i wont have to pay an activation fee, nor will i have to pay for a phone. i just need a phone to talk, no ringtones, no internet, no movies, no music.

[mbossman2]

AT&T and Cingular and 1 and only 1: AT&T.

AT&T and NASCAR are at each other in the legal arena (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2007/06/20/2007-06-20_att_and_nascar_at_legal_loggerheads.html) over the relationship, sponsorships and logos.

[Jester]

I love apple. I love the macbook line. I love my iPod. I love my moto slvr. Everything the iPhone can do I can do with all my gadgets. I have a gadget accomidating backpack (maxpeditions monsoon) SO no I will not be getting the iPhone. I just got the unlock code for my slvr. I would be paying out the yin yang to use all the iPhones features. This is one case were the money is simply too much for this prosumer. :cool:

[Brad the best]

i don't even think AT&T covers my city . i hate cell phones and will not buy one until i absolutely have to . or my ipod dies

[Mac Medic]

Not for me, not with AT&T, couldn't give me one to switch.

[Lespaul20]

According to my Marketing Professor Apple and AT&T signed a 5 year contract. So if he is right, I'm wrong in thinking that it will be on other networks soon.

[SonicVanguard]

According to my Marketing Professor Apple and AT&T signed a 5 year contract. So if he is right, I'm wrong in thinking that it will be on other networks soon.
He's right - I was looking over that bit of information this afternoon in my office on campus. And GSM's EDGE won't be getting any faster any time soon.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2007-05-21-at&t-iphone_N.htm

[Hi Ho]

Verizon turned down the Iphone contract.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/30/verizon_turned_down_iphone/

I thought I heard somewhere that Verizon was working on a competitor to the Iphone.

[EzyStvy]

11 iPhone Gotchas (http://tech.msn.com/products/articlepcw.aspx?cp-documentid=5061246&GT1=10138)

Off-limits battery
While we're on the subject of the battery, it's worth noting that, like the original iPod, the iPhone has its battery enclosed in a superslim case among tightly negotiated electronics and behind a top surface of glass--reducing the chances of a DIY battery replacement to next to nil. (Plus, we suspect that attempting a replacement voids the warranty.) So if your battery life dwindles to roughly 6.5 minutes per charge, or the battery malfunctions, you'll have to send your iPhone in for repair.

It's a thief magnet: Everybody wants an iPhone, including people who aren't above stealing yours.

Multismudge screen: You can use all five fingers on the screen at once? Better wash your hands first.

OMG no IM: Inveterate chatters won't be so :) about being limited to SMS.

The battery life question

Unplugged Web plug-ins

Business people need not apply

It costs how much?!

Where are the keys?

Limited third-party apps

Data that crawls

[mbossman2]

plus the fact that AT&T is still requiring a contract on this. The reason that contracts have always been required, according to the providers, is because the provider has been subsidizing the phones...but with the iPhone, no subsidy, consumer pays full price yet you still have to sign for 2 years. Yuck!

[mairving]

Hmm, let's see.
It costs several times a normal cell phone.
It can only be purchased at one place.

Yep, it is made by Apple.

[novie]

stickin with the sony ericsson w800i ive had for like two years, havent yet seen a compelling reason to upgrade to anything else... iphone is pretty but seems kind of purposeless to me for some reason.

[doubledragon5]

I remember when AT&T had service a few yrs back..Back then it sucked real bad. The only reason why AT&T bought Cingular was because of their technology.. I for one won't switch back even if they were the only ones around my area...

[SonicVanguard]

Verizon turned down the Iphone contract.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/30/verizon_turned_down_iphone/

I thought I heard somewhere that Verizon was working on a competitor to the Iphone.
Verizon and Sprint both are - actually, Motorola, LG and Samsung are. And when those phones hit - on networks that run 5-10 times faster than AT&T's fastest data network - the iPhone's going to look like a wannabe. In cellphones it's not the phone that makes or breaks - it's the network.

[tomster2300]

I've been very happy with my Samsung a930 phone, and I just resigned another two year contract with Verizon a couple of months ago. Anyway, mine has bluetooth (for my bluetooth earpiece that I use while driving), a mp3 player (which I never use but did buy a sd card for), and impressive battery life. I stopped using instant messaging on my computer back in high school, so I have no need for it on my phone. I do use text messaging though, but rarely (usually only when school's in session when I want to snag somebody who's in a lecture).

So no iphone for me, though it does look kind of snazzy.

Stuff like that doesn't really appeal to a student who carries a laptop with them around campus (or who has convenient access to a computer). Plus it's too dern expensive.

How much would a monthly charge be if you got all the bells and whistles activated? Do you have to get everything activated through a single package, or can you pick and choose your options. Since Apple is all about integration it would be cool to have everything offered together for one low price, and that would be it. Then I bet they might sell more.

[tomster2300]

Just found this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19464851/

[Statica]

Wow .. you guys south of the border are definitely spoiled by your choices :) A $20 unlimited data plan as an add-on? You've got to see the rates out here to believe it.

tomster2300: It's funny to see that review on MSNBC from a person who obviously has not come close to an iPhone (article rated 2 by 113 users) .. you've got to check out the reviews from people who have tested the product to come up with a more believable device review.

I guess I'm one of the very few on this board that's looking forward to the iPhone .. hopefully once it gets tested out I'm looking forward to getting it. The only reasons I wouldn't get it are if its a lemon for the first few-month-adopters .. or if there isn't an unlocked (SIM-free) version on the iphone that isn't priced too high. But mostly I'm happy that Apple's entered the fray and will hopefully be scaring other device mfgers to put out more complete phones. You would not believe how difficult it is to find a phone that does quadband, with BT 2.0 with WiFi .. the fact that the Iphone does it all makes it a worthwhile option for me at the moment... (and from most reviews it seems to do WiFi quite well)

[David M]

Statica....we will be seeing a lot of jaws dropping in here when it sells well over the weekend. :) Those sales figures will be available on Monday.

Others in here will be shocked to find out what a piece of crap it is NOT.

Some have not been keeping up...it now has a glass screen plus they have improved the battery life. Even John C. Dvorak of all people, in a recent podcast, likes it.

Go AAPL!

[HAL9000]

I myself wouldn't mind one if as Statica says, it's not a lemon... but it won't be happening anytime soon, I'm too cheap to pay for one.

[Statica]

The two things I've realized over the years is:
Firstly - NEVER SAY NEVER .. yes there are those that keep talking about the Iphone as an Ihype and of very little value. Personally, I have a hard time believing that Apple/Jobs is not going to ride this incredible wave of products with something that truly is that bad. I can understand those of you with issues about EDGE and to me that is probably the biggest deterrent (if you go back in time, and see when Jobs revealed the Iphone the one thing that I was surprised by was the lack of UMTS), but let's face it North American subscribers have really not jumped on the data-over-cellular train. We're still stuck with an archaic network over GSM .. barely scratching 2.5G.. the UMTS that is there in the US is just in some pockets. Hopefully this is the push that networks will get to adopt a decent 3G+ implementation. For me, I'd be happy if my lousy GSM provider will bring out a data package that AT&T came out with ($20+ for unltd data) to add on to my service.
For my part, I'm not a casual cellular user, I rarely use my home phone and my cell is my primary point of contact.
As for the price, I'm not calculating it merely as a phone. I find the price reasonable enough for a device that can allegedly work great as a phone and (this is in order of what I look for in a pocket device):
* has a very stable platform, allegedly (if it's anything like the OSX it's going to be just fine). I've said it before, my current phone is based on the Symbian UIQ 2.0 .. and it is one of the first things I look for in terms of a good multifunctional device. Windows Mobile & Palm devices that I've used have been extremely disappointing. The available Symbian devices, though stable, have either been rather bulky or lack that one thing somewhere (sometimes it's the lack of Wifi ..sometimes quadband etc etc)
* has an effective method of entry (I can't stand tapping in text through a keypad)
* has a good PDA feature set including sync-s with my desktop scheduling software
* has a decent enough camera (my digital camera is a fairly bulky DSLR and the 2MP camera seems decent enough on this)
* is a decent net surfing/emailing device .. especially since I'm within a WiFi AP for nearly 90% of my life
* is going to be a great music player (I dont own an Ipod and this works well for me)

So given my requirements I'm not saying that its never going to be an Iphone or that its never going to be anything but an Iphone .. I like alternatives such as the the P1I (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=global&lc=en&ver=4001&template=pp1_1_1&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10864) which is rumored to be pricier.
Again, I never buy locked/subsidized phones (another drawback of our one-network country .. they never provide an unlock code) so I'm looking for SIM-free versions to come out. I've seen some stores in Canada already advertising unlocked Iphones as coming soon.

AND secondly NEVER BE AN EARLY ADOPTER!
I will be seeing how it goes with the iphone and its early subscribers and rely on them to do a broad beta test for me. I'm going to check to see what fixes or enhancements are in the works for further revisions of the Iphone... already rumored are fixes that allow for Ipod accessories to work with the Iphone (stuff like car adapters are apparently still not ready for it).

[glc]

If you are a technogeek, can afford the device and the service, and will accept AT&T's perceived and actual deficiencies, go for it.

[tomster2300]

tomster2300: It's funny to see that review on MSNBC from a person who obviously has not come close to an iPhone (article rated 2 by 113 users) .. you've got to check out the reviews from people who have tested the product to come up with a more believable device review.


I wouldn't make a purchase decision off of that - not by a long shot. I just thought it was ironic that I found the link right after my initial posting, especially since it seemed to echo what everyone was saying.

[mairving]

Statica....we will be seeing a lot of jaws dropping in here when it sells well over the weekend. :) Those sales figures will be available on Monday.

Others in here will be shocked to find out what a piece of crap it is NOT.

Some have not been keeping up...it now has a glass screen plus they have improved the battery life. Even John C. Dvorak of all people, in a recent podcast, likes it.

Go AAPL!
I don't really think that people are thinking that it is a piece of junk. People might even fork over the $500 for the phone. The biggest hindrance to it selling is the fact that you have to sign up with AT&T. If it were available to Verizon, Sprint, T-mobile then there would be some competition and the price might go down and sales would go up. As it is I would never own one because I had Cingular once, never again.

[glc]

Cingular is not universally hated - I've had Cingular for over 10 years and have never had a major complaint. My phone makes and receives calls quite reliably, my text messages work fine, my browser does load up what I need to load. There may be better networks, but Cingular's is good enough to do what I need.

[mairving]

Cingular is not universally hated - I've had Cingular for over 10 years and have never had a major complaint. My phone makes and receives calls quite reliably, my text messages work fine, my browser does load up what I need to load. There may be better networks, but Cingular's is good enough to do what I need.
The major complaint that I had with Cingular was billing. I couldn't get them to bill me correctly, then I couldn't get them to quit billing me when I cancelled. It took nearly a year before they cleared that up.

The point is that having a single carrier will be a big deterent to Iphone growth.

[sdkfz]

I am in the wrong crowd. Monthly total minutes used for the family is <50 minutes. My minutes usually <10. No texting, no camera, no web used. The only reason we use another 40 or so minutes is that my wife is on call for her job and gets an IT support call on average once a weekend on her rotation.

When the Apple's price comes down to what I have paid for both of my cell phones I have had over the last six years - zero - I may give the phone a try... maybe...

[glc]

The iPhone is not targeted at those people who only need a phone.......for what you use it for, sdkfz, you could probably just get a prepaid.

Virgin Mobile is a flat 18 cents a minute. You can buy a phone for $19.99 and it comes with a $20 starter card. You can buy a $90 refill that's good for a year.

[sdkfz]

The iPhone is not targeted at those people who only need a phone.......for what you use it for, sdkfz, you could probably just get a prepaid.


Agreed but for the veto vote... wife wanted new phone and wanted to extend Sprint contract ... so according to my new saying "A happy wife allows for a chance for a happy husband, while and unhappy wife gurantees a unhappy husband" I did not take your suggested path, though I was definitely about to start looking since contract expired (well is was going to!) in August...

[glc]

I think Virgin Mobile uses the Sprint network.

[David M]

200,000 iPhones were sold in the first 24 hours and AT&T sold out...despite the "lousy battery you cannot change yourself, screen that scratches, high cost, frustratingly slow download speed, poor coverage in the boonies and the fact that it is a thief magnet."

Never in my life have I seen such a lousy phone sell so well. Imagine that!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUIjMF2enOFY&refer=home

Hmm, let's see.
It costs several times a normal cell phone.
It can only be purchased at one place.

Yep, it is made by Apple.

Two places according to the article.

[LeftyAce]

Welcome to Apple hype.

[novie]

passed by the apple store yesterday while out shopping and played with it for a couple minutes. web browsing under their wifi connection was ok. i would probably get used to it over time but i did miss having real buttons and the tactile response to a degree, sometimes i was a bit clumsy with the touchscreen ones. overall still not convinced. there was a crowd of people there, many just curious, but id hazard a guess that sales have been good... the sonystyle store there had about one twentieth the people in it and is three times as big.

[TimPoet]

I don't know if it's hype... Apple definitely hit a marketing nerve withthe good job they did on the iPod. And they seem to have incorporated a lot of the design goodness into the iPhone.

Not going with EV-DO was a huge mistake, though...

And I just can't see myself being happy with a first out product. There is so many possibilities of having bugs and all...

In Smartphones, there is so much potential for unhappiness... I chose the Blackberry Pearl cuz of the good offer T-Mobile had and after reading the reviews it seems I stumbled into an excellent buyer pleaser....

So, I would wait about 6 mos. if I had to dough... and see what tthe consumer response was before I bought....

[mairving]

Two places according to the article.
You can purchase it at the Apple store or AT&T. Still have to purchase the 2yr contract with AT&T.

[Statica]

Well it's not looking good for me owning an Iphone any time soon .. http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/06/30/iphone10/index.php
It’s the most locked-down phone we’ve ever seen. Not only can you not swap out the AT&T SIM card for one from another network, you can’t even swap it out for another AT&T SIM card. and further from http://reviews.cnet.com/smart-phones/apple-iphone-8gb/4505-6452_7-32309245.html?tag=box
but the iPhone's SIM card will not work in other AT&T phones. That's especially troubling, as it completely defeats the biggest advantage of using a GSM phone with a SIM card. Some people have multiple phones and like to change the SIM card between their different handsets. Also, you can't use the SIM card to import contact information from another handset.
That is just C-R-A-Z-Y! I dont know why they would do it unless they wanted to demonstrate Jobs's being a control freak. I dont care what else is good or bad about the Iphone but I sure am not looking a step further till I can confirm that this is not the case.

[glc]

And people complain about Micro$oft???

[David M]

Just read an article somewhere that Apple can unlock the phone. They may or may not. I would imagine it depends on the demand. If they can sell more phones by allowing more than ATT then why not?

[tomster2300]

Dumb question, but since AT&T now owns Cingular, wouldn't they now be making use of Cingular's existing service? I didn't think Cingular's service was all that bad. I think I'm missing something here though.

[glc]

Depends on the area, Tom. Cingular is pretty decent here but I've been in cities where it's lousy. Their high speed network is a joke though, Verizon and Sprint have them beat big time there.

[Hi Ho]

I thought AT&T simply changed their name to Cingular years ago as some sort of corporate merger and that they decided to change it back to AT&T. I don't think anything will change there. I do know that Cingular had virtually NO service outside of major cities here in Western Washington. I've used their data service but it sounds like I'm not missing much.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/12/cingular-to-become-atandt-on-monday/

[mbossman2]

Just read an article somewhere that Apple can unlock the phone. They may or may not. I would imagine it depends on the demand. If they can sell more phones by allowing more than ATT then why not?

because, I believe, they have a sole source contract thru AT&T

[mystvearn]

Wait 6 months, and see if the iphone is a success. Or if you want one cheap, there is always this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_8wuVEYMZ8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhelmihadi%2Eblogs%2Efriendster%2Ecom%2Fmy%5Fblog%2F
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4548

China are getting quite good at duplicating things now. I think this china copycat will come to my country very very soon, and with those features its going to sell quite well.

I am not a fan of apple stuff as I think you pay too much for the style and that brand. There are lots of other alternatives which are worth your money.

[mbossman2]

Wait 6 months, and see if the iphone is a success. Or if you want one cheap, there is always this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_8wuVEYMZ8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhelmihadi%2Eblogs%2Efriendster%2Ecom%2Fmy%5Fblog%2F
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4548

China are getting quite good at duplicating things now. I think this china copycat will come to my country very very soon, and with those features its going to sell quite well.

I am not a fan of apple stuff as I think you pay too much for the style and that brand. There are lots of other alternatives which are worth your money.


this behavior is what may, in the long run, do some significant damage to the Chinese economy. Eventually it will get to the point that it makes no sense to have something built in China as their rogue manufacturing, product duplication and intellectual property violations almost instantly commodotize a new product, thus upsetting the delicate adoption curve and it's financial implications.

[David M]

"Shoppers bought as many as 500,000 units over the weekend, Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster said, more than twice his projection of 200,000." -Bloomberg.com

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVvcIKWgPkrs&refer=home

Imagine that, a half million people buying a slow and expensive phone. :rolleyes:

[mbossman2]

Imagine that, a half million people buying a slow and expensive phone. :rolleyes:


imagine that, a half million people being sucked in by hype and marketing.

We will have to see what happens after the 1st blush wears off, the reality that they may be stuck with this phone for 2 years and the complaints (or praises) begin to filter in over the next few months.

[Floppyman]

The question is David, how many of those people actually seriously considered that the phone had those types of drawbacks? It sort of like someone buying a car because it looks cool, yet having no clue about that the engine may provide trouble in the long run. Plus we all know about the herd mentality of people in this culture....if the Jones' have one then....

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to knock Apple -- I think it's great that so many units sold, especially for the holders of AAPL. But just like the iPod back then, it comes to show that Apple products really don't sell because of features alone (we have already discussed comparable products to the iPhone), but the certain type of "sleekiness and sexyness" inherent to them that appeals to people.

[glc]

Not exactly, HiHo - here's the chronology as I remember. It all started out many years ago in the days of analog cellular service as Cellular One. Back in those days, there were 2 cellular services in each city - one provided by the local telephone company (here it was Ameritech) and one by someone else - and that someone else was Cellular One in many cities. When the FCC started allowing more competition, Cellular One changed their name to Cingular and AT&T (among others) started a wireless division, and soon after that digital service was introduced. Meanwhile, SBC was on a buying spree. They bought out Ameritech and Cingular. Because of this, they had to get rid of Ameritech Cellular (which had not gone digital) - they sold that to Verizon.

It wasn't too long before AT&T was really feeling the pinch - and they went on a major diet and sold off their wireless division to SBC. The AT&T digital network was showing its age and they couldn't afford to upgrade it so Cingular simply converted all the AT&T customers over to their network and started shutting down the old AT&T towers.

With all the buyouts and mergers going on, AT&T became healthy again and bought out SBC to get back in the wireless business among other things. The recent reappearance of AT&T Wireless is simply a name change. My phone still says Cingular when it boots up but I get my bill from AT&T.

[mairving]

imagine that, a half million people being sucked in by hype and marketing.

One word...Lemmings.

Some of the comments by people that have bought Iphones are totally insane. Here is one of the insane ones:
from MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19525360/)
“It’s not like it’s a computer, it’s not like it’s a phone, it’s like a living sculpture in my hands,”
Get a life.

[David M]

imagine that, a half million people being sucked in by hype and marketing.

We will have to see what happens after the 1st blush wears off, the reality that they may be stuck with this phone for 2 years and the complaints (or praises) begin to filter in over the next few months.

The fact remains, Apple ripped one out of the ballpark and into the parking lot with the bases loaded over the weekend.

Call it hype or naivety...thats assuming people do not read any of the hundreds of reviews available before they buy a product. There were plenty of negative things in the reviews...yet they still chose to "Buy! Buy! Buy!". <-- (Cramer reference) :)

[HAL9000]

OK, but is one naive if they are happy with their product?

[David M]

That's exactly it HAL. Is someone happy with the money they just spent?

[HAL9000]

Only time will tell with that... but that would still leave my original question remaining then.

[tigstah]

Depends on the area, Tom. Cingular is pretty decent here but I've been in cities where it's lousy. Their high speed network is a joke though, Verizon and Sprint have them beat big time there.

cingular is lousy here to.
lots of dead spots.

[mbossman2]

The fact remains, Apple ripped one out of the ballpark and into the parking lot with the bases loaded over the weekend.

Call it hype or naivety...thats assuming people do not read any of the hundreds of reviews available before they buy a product. There were plenty of negative things in the reviews...yet they still chose to "Buy! Buy! Buy!". <-- (Cramer reference) :)

the first orgasmic burst doesn't really say much. The key is sustainability. The numbers almost certainly will see a fall off, the question will be how much?

Will the iPhone become an expensive toy or a viable phone/internet/portable entertainment unit?

The iPod feature of the phone has been tried before - and that didn't do so well. (remember the Motorola that ran iTune songs?)

Who knows, Apple may have figured it out, but only time will tell....not prepared to brand this a success or a failure. Only a shortsighted day trader mentality would do so.

[mairving]

Interesting too. I was reading this article about how Apple could possibly lose Univeral as a partner (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/02/business/media/02universal.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin). Probably won't happen but who would it hurt most if they did pull out from Apple and sign an exclusive offer with someone else.

[David M]

I don't think Universal Music Group (UMG)-Vivendi wants to lose the market of people who are paying 99 cents a song. My guess is that it is a threat to pull out unless Apple coughs up a higher percentage of the revenue from the download fees. A pre-negotiations threat basically.

Jobs holds the upper hand in that iTune sales are a small percentage of revenues for Apple. iTunes for Universal Music Group HAVE to be a greater percentage of sales. Apple can live without UMG more than UMG can live without Apple. If UMG wants to hurt sales, then go ahead and cut off Apple as a customer. Where else are they going to sell music as easily to iPod owners other than iTunes? iPods are the largest percentage of the MP3 player market. UMG would only be screwing themselves by cutting off Apple. It's a symbiotic business relationship here..not a one sided relationship.

Vivendi is only 1/3 the size of Apple. UMG is a division of Vivendi, a French company.

[LeftyAce]

Isn't Vivendi also a huge global water supply, waste management, and assorted media company? I think to some degree Vivendi could live without it's music business, forget Apple :-)

Nonetheless, I agree it's probably pre-negotiation leveraging.....neither company wants any music to disappear from iTunes.

[David M]

This is what Vivendi does, in the lower right hand corner. I did not see any mention of water.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=vivendi&hl=en

[TimPoet]

Okay, I saw an iPhone yesterday and got to handle it for a few brief seconds during a break at work.
I must say I am impressed with the little I saw. It was so thin! And the screen creates a gorgeous display. Very sexy it is.

Buuuut it's so expensive!!! Jeez, $600 with a contract! It'll be awhile before I get one of those...

If any flaws ares revised well enough, perhaps in a year or two, and if it's features can beat out my new Blackberry Pearl, then I may just get one.

[LeftyAce]

Ah, I was forgetting that they've sold down to a 40% share in what used to be their water division. They were founded by a mandate from Napolean to supply water to Paris: https://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Vivendi-Universal-SA-Company-History.html

[tomster2300]

The question is David, how many of those people actually seriously considered that the phone had those types of drawbacks? It sort of like someone buying a car because it looks cool, yet having no clue about that the engine may provide trouble in the long run. Plus we all know about the herd mentality of people in this culture....if the Jones' have one then....

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to knock Apple -- I think it's great that so many units sold, especially for the holders of AAPL. But just like the iPod back then, it comes to show that Apple products really don't sell because of features alone (we have already discussed comparable products to the iPhone), but the certain type of "sleekiness and sexyness" inherent to them that appeals to people.

I think you're right. How much of the population actually knows all the facts about how cell phones operate and what functions are better than others? If something looks snazzy, has a huge name behind it (like Apple), and works most of the time, then it's going to sell. Technology is an area in which the majority of consumers simply throw their hands up at and exclaim "If it works and does what I need, I'm sold". Half the time when I explain things to guests at Target they simply stop me and ask me will it work or not. 90% of the time I have to give them the watered down version because that's all they care to hear.

The average Joe doesn't have time for explanations, they just want the popular items. Why do you think corporations spend so much money on advertisements? American consumers are like ADD monkeys - you can't keep their attention for very long, but spark their interest and they'll be clamoring to get their hands on the product. If you saw Paris Hilton carry around a sack of horse hockey then we'd be lining our shelves with them - you wouldn't be able to keep it in stock.

[mystvearn]

this behavior is what may, in the long run, do some significant damage to the Chinese economy. Eventually it will get to the point that it makes no sense to have something built in China as their rogue manufacturing, product duplication and intellectual property violations almost instantly commodotize a new product, thus upsetting the delicate adoption curve and it's financial implications.

Remember Japan in the late 70s-80's where they copied American cars. Now they are the leader in that sector and almost in every technological aspect. So now its China's turn to copy and few years down the road they will be a leader as well. They have one thing which other nations do not have. Manpower and a huge consumer market. Manufacturing wages are low, manpower easily replaceable.

Rouge manufacturing state or not, I see lots of Europeans, Americans going to Hong Kong, and here to get pirated stuff from clothes to watches, to software. Its just like the street peddlers at NY, if you can get a Gucci bag for $20, why pay $200. Its all down to those who think how much they are willing to pay for a certain product. Piracy will never die

[Mac Medic]

I'm happy with mine so far. SMS didn't work for a while but that was an AT&T issue which they fixed. I have 2 weeks to see if I want to keep this as I left my other service active, so time will tell but as of right now its ok but I do miss some of the functionality of my Dash.

[David M]

I think you're right. How much of the population actually knows all the facts about how cell phones operate and what functions are better than others? If something looks snazzy, has a huge name behind it (like Apple), and works most of the time, then it's going to sell. Technology is an area in which the majority of consumers simply throw their hands up at and exclaim "If it works and does what I need, I'm sold". Half the time when I explain things to guests at Target they simply stop me and ask me will it work or not. 90% of the time I have to give them the watered down version because that's all they care to hear.

The average Joe doesn't have time for explanations, they just want the popular items. Why do you think corporations spend so much money on advertisements? American consumers are like ADD monkeys - you can't keep their attention for very long, but spark their interest and they'll be clamoring to get their hands on the product. If you saw Paris Hilton carry around a sack of horse hockey then we'd be lining our shelves with them - you wouldn't be able to keep it in stock.

It's just my opinion, but I think most people who have the income to afford this phone also have the wherewithal to at least do some basic research before buying. Its kind of arrogant to think that us computer geeks are the only ones capable of doing basic research on the internet and therefore determining if others should be buying this phone. Some people are sheep, yes. But this phone is targeted at people who already have a pretty decent disposable income and are therefore in most cases better educated and more resourceful than the typical cell phone buyer. It's pretty arrogant to think that it is only uneducated sheep that are purchasing this phone. Sure, some are sheep...but the majority of purchasers?...Naaaaaaaaah :)

[mbossman2]

Remember Japan in the late 70s-80's where they copied American cars. Now they are the leader in that sector and almost in every technological aspect. So now its China's turn to copy and few years down the road they will be a leader as well. They have one thing which other nations do not have. Manpower and a huge consumer market. Manufacturing wages are low, manpower easily replaceable.

Rouge manufacturing state or not, I see lots of Europeans, Americans going to Hong Kong, and here to get pirated stuff from clothes to watches, to software. Its just like the street peddlers at NY, if you can get a Gucci bag for $20, why pay $200. Its all down to those who think how much they are willing to pay for a certain product. Piracy will never die

but it's not just copy or mimic, it is down right theft - dies and castings leaving the factory and going to another factory where illicit production starts up. Counterfiet product being positioned as real and legitimate. Software code being taken, bugs and all, and being repackaged as another company's products.

While americans and europeans may go to HK for these types of items, it does not make the production of them legitimate.

Take a look at some of the issues that are coming out of China:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/28/news/international/china_fish/?postversion=2007062816
http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/28/news/international/china_fish/?postversion=2007062816
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/231583
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070630/toothpaste_warning_070630/20070630?hub=CTVNewsAt11
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/georgeConvict.htm
http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/corp_012303.html

the issue is moving out of consumer soft goods into commerical products, pharmaceuticals, foods and food additives. Basically from things that are just an inconvenience to things that can cause significant physical harm.

[tomster2300]

It's just my opinion, but I think most people who have the income to afford this phone also have the wherewithal to at least do some basic research before buying. Its kind of arrogant to think that us computer geeks are the only ones capable of doing basic research on the internet and therefore determining if others should be buying this phone. Some people are sheep, yes. But this phone is targeted at people who already have a pretty decent disposable income and are therefore in most cases better educated and more resourceful than the typical cell phone buyer. It's pretty arrogant to think that it is only uneducated sheep that are purchasing this phone. Sure, some are sheep...but the majority of purchasers?...Naaaaaaaaah :)

If you think I'm being arrogant then come work where I do for awhile and deal with who I deal with.

I know most people do do a moderate amount of research on an item before they purchase it, but a large portion of buyers don't do enough. If everyone actually researched items and chose those based on quality over pizazz then there would be a lesser need for advertising.

My PR class taught me that it is actually easier to sell to a consumer who has no intention of purchasing an item than those who are shopping around for it. Those instantaneous shoppers are actually a large portion of the population that advertisements are aimed at. Because if they really begin comparing then they might go some place else.

[mystvearn]

http://paultan.org/archives/2004/12/05/china-pirates/

They do know how to copy something very good, also eventually they will move away from copying everything
http://lifestyle.monstersandcritics.com/autos/news/article_1299255.php/Chinese_car_makers_turn_away_from_copycat_designs