Unable to Boot in Normal; System Hangs

[jldodge]

I can logon in SAFE mode and perform all tasks that can be done with the limited amount of drivers, etc. However, I cannot logon in normal mode; the system hangs while trying to load Windows. The bar below the trademark indicates that it is attempting to load Windows XP but it never takes me to the login screen. I have checked for viruses and spyware with System Mechanic 7 and Spybot, again in SAFE mode, -- nothing.

The PC is home built with a Tyan motherboard, dual Intel processors, 4GB memory, Windows XP Pro SP2, SCSI, RAID 0 on C drive which contains all programs, F drive contains all data, can access both in SAFE mode.

I have tried, unsuccessfully, to use System Restore to return the machine to a point before this problem started. I have also tried the Recovery console and followed the instructions for userinit.exe and that did not help either.

I am now doing msconfig and deselecting all startup and services. There are many programs identified as Microsoft for which I do not know the authenticity. There are other programs, Acronis, iTunes, Kaspersky which I know and believe are okay. What is the best way to prioritize the good-to-bad programs for adding back in? Should I literally do one at a time OR are their groups that can be re-loaded?

I have been told that if this fails to resolve the problem I need to physically remove all adapters that are plugged into the PC, e.g. sound card, network adapter, etc. I guess I could have a motherboard problem but HOPE I don't since that would be a major challenge given all that I have installed at this time ... e.g. a Creative Soundblaster Card, an ATI Video Card, and an ATI TV Wonder card. I also have an onboard Network adapter and USB ports. Do I disconnect everything or just pull out the cards and try that first? I am currently disconnected from the network.

Sorry for all the questions but I have exhausted all of my personal experiences (note: I built the machine with the help of boards like these; I am not a technical guru so everything I know is self taught) and am getting frustrated with the system "downtime". Thanks in advance ...

[Statica]

Have you tried booting up with Boot Logging enabled? Enable it and try doing a normal bootup till it hangs. Then restart to Safe Mode (without bootlogging) and look in your Windows for NTBTLOG.txt .. try it to see if there's a particular moment when it hangs.
Also check out the system logs (I dont think it might help but worth a try) .. START > RUN > eventvwr.msc to look for any critical system errors that are consistently cropping up.

Are you using updated drivers for all your devices? Are you running an updated BIOS on your mobo?

Prioritizing good-to-bad programs, is perhaps not the best way to go. Start with a minimal complement of services enabled (use services.msc) and switch everything else to Manual (instead of disabled). Usually, the MS based services are "safe" however, you can refer to a services list like http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm to see what you can turn off. Ideally, you should not be running any services that you don't need... it will save you a lot of headaches/exploits and increase system performance.

Yes, it is a good idea to remove all non-critical peripherals for troubleshooting; however, it's usually more to do with trying to diagnose problems for a new setup/new OS installation. I'm assuming that you had a well functioning system before .. if this is your first setup/XP installation then by all means try it out. For these "sudden" errors, try to recall when you started having these issues .. it could be a bad Microsoft patch or a bad s/w installation etc. See if you can run system restore while in safe mode to a time when you didn't have these issues.

If all else fails, then move on to hardware diagnostics .. test your RAM (http://www.memtest86.com/) , remove devices to see if it helps and then put them in sequence rebooting constantly to see if your system is stable.

[jldodge]

Thanks for the input ... Yes the system was running fine before. This is not a new install/build.

There were two problems that could be the problem. First I was doing a Windows update and the system "hung" for a long period. I assumed nothing was wrong so I rebooted. After that, the problem occurred. I "repaired" windows, loaded SP2 and upgraded again. The system worked for about 2 weeks and then the problem occurred again. The other SW was iTunes 7.3. I uninstalled and went back to 7.1.

I wonder if I should try the "repair" again, upgrade to SP2 and then carefully upgrade from there, maybe only the security patches ... Any thoughts/suggestions on this??

As for drivers and BIOS, yes they are all updated.

One other question ... does this sound like more of a SW problem vs. HW??? After all, the system works fine in SAFE Mode so if it is a problem, hopefully it's only sound or video card.

I will also try your other suggestions ... good ones to remember for future situations ... Thanks

[Cricket]

Did you see this thread? (http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=183572)

:) Cricket

[Statica]

It sounds like a software issue and more specifically it sounds like a patch issue that is on the other thread (check Cricket's post)... although more severe on your system.
Instead of using repair as your first option, try using System Restore and see if it solves the issue.

Remember that every time Windows Update installs a fix/patch it does create a restore point for you automatically. For 3rd party software, it is recommended that you manually create a restore point BEFORE you make a change (installation or uninstallation).

Also a good idea to DISABLE automatic Windows Update installation. I'd recommend using "Automatically notify" only so that you can wait to see if there are any reported issues before you put in the patches.

[jldodge]

Excellent (thanks Cricket) that is an amazing find!!!

Statica ... I have tried System Restore and it did not work. I will see if I have a period before the update but don't think it exists in my system.

If it does not, would the "repair" approach be the next best approach?

[ITlover]

He has checked system for sypware and viruses and couldnot find any in his system, he has even tried system restore and that also didnot do the job, so i don't think it can be a software issue, it can most probably be a hardware issue.

Try booting your computer in safe mode, and go to start---->run--->msconfig and put a check on normal startup and restart your computer.

If that doesnot work than it could be a boot issue or a hardware issue.

[jldodge]

Here is the update ... Still need some advice ...

I did not have any restore points ... Windows XP repair (from the disk) did not work. SO, I reformatted, reinstalled windows, and am now restoring an Aconis image I created a few months ago when the system was working fine. With as much checking as I can do, it appears that all of the hardware is working -- video card, sound card and TV card.

Cricket's response resonates with my exact experience ... got the problem during a Windows update (not sure what was being updated but I now know better for the future -- turn auto off) seemed to work okay, updated Windows again, added iTunes 7.3 (many others had problems with it according to the Apple forums) and then it really started acting up ... slow, errors, rebooting, etc.

I'll keep you posted ...

By the way, I need a case fan for a Thermaltake Xasser III -- 80x80 silent fan. The case is still being manufactured by Thermaltake but they don't have the fan listed and I cannot find it in some of the more popular stores, e.g. newegg, etc. Any suggestions (I know this is a SW board so apologies).

Thanks for the help so far ...

[jldodge]

I've restored to a working version ... all seems to be okay except it does not recognize my USB devices. In Devices, I have the USB hubs recognized without any exclamation points. I have automatic updates turned off (lesson learned) and am disconnected from the Internet for the moment.

At some point, I was planning to upgrade to Windows Vista (I have the disks). My thinking is to update some of the software to get it to the current condition and then to upgrade to Windows Vista. I am up to SP2 with some updates that have not been problematic. Does this make sense? Any other suggestions?

[jldodge]

Have the system operational on an older version (mid-2006). Data is on a separate drive so that is okay ... just need to update some software. My plan is to not upgrade/update any Microsoft XP for now. Will, of course, update anti virus/hacking software and other utilities. Do you foresee any problems with this approach?

Once I know the system is stable, I was then planning to upgrade to Vista. Is that a viable approach (skipping all the XP updates) OR is Vista still a bit unstable for now?

I feel like you almost need a technical degree these days ... Since I don't have one, you guys are a lifesaver. Not sure what folks would have done without forums like these ...

Thanks for the help ...

[Statica]

For your USB devices: Have you checked and made sure that you've installed all the motherboard drivers? Did you turn off Plug and Play from your services.msc?

There shouldn't bee too many problems with not putting in all the extra patches from Microsoft, if they are unstable for you.. PROVIDED you run an updated antivirus in realtime. It still seems strange that a critical patch from MS should break down so much.

Regarding installing Vista .. well it seems like there is a huge divide in the IT world on what the right time for Vista adoption is. Personally, I've been running Vista for more than a year now and have had no issues at all, but there are others that have. If you do decide to go with Vista, run the compatibility advisor first and make sure that it's going to be compatible with your hardware.
And if you are going to go the Vista route, then there isn't really a need to make XP stable. You can use an upgrade disk to do a fresh install of Vista (which is probably recommended, anyway).

[jldodge]

I now have the USB working ...

As for the Vista upgrade ... does the "fresh install" you reference keep all of the installed programs? I assume it is an option I will have when I start the upgrade process. What is the difference between a fresh install and a "normal" upgrade?

Again, thanks for all your help on this ...

[Statica]

In a fresh install, you dont keep any of your previously installed programs. However, if you're repeatedly installing XP just to get the system not to crash, then you might as well install Vista clean (without XP previously installed) and then go ahead and install the programs - provided they are Vista compatible.

Am glad that your USB is now working and hopefully everything is working fine. A note about your proposed Vista move though, in light of the fact that XP seems to be working at least for now..
Vista may or may not open up a new can of worms for you. Dont for a moment assume that you are going to have zero problems with it, because Vista comes with own brand new set of issues. It's a new OS and not mature .. and worse yet, may not be documented enough for you to troubleshoot your errors. Keep in mind that when people, lots of people, start getting the same errors you get more and more documentation on a system - what works, what breaks it down. The result of all that is what you see in the form of Google search results and MS KB articles on XP. To top that of, a number of hardware manufacturers have been dragging their feet for creating drivers and increasing compatibility to Vista as well. Yes Microsoft has provided a ton of drivers and hardware support and testing, but again you need to rely on the compatibility tests to get you through. I'm not saying that Vista will not work for you, but be prepared for an eventuality that it might not .. so use caution before you run to the store and plunk down money in the hopes of a miracle cure.

Document what you install with XP, make sure that you dont use windowsupdate to update your hardware drivers and that you rely on windowsupdate only for PERTINENT security fixes .. use the hardware mfger for guidance on the latest & stablest drivers.

& if you are getting tired of repeatedly installing XP that breaks down with patches then consider creating backup disk images of your hard drive.

I know it's painful not to have a system that you can use, but the good news for you is that it used to work before till something "broke" it. So you should be able to get to it before you install that incompatible patch.