Have You Noticed??

[SARGE]

The first week, it was called War. Then it became a Crime. Now it's referred to as a tragedy.

It's been said we have the power, but not the will. And they have the will, but not the power.

[M. A. Dockter]

Things went back to normal...people forgot.

If they would have hit Wisconsin...it would have been over 14 days ago. We never hold a grudge...we just never forget...ever...

[Kubie]

Sarge and Dok,
I understand your frustration. I'm still very angry. Like most of us, I wanted to see instant retribution. However, I believe the president is doing exactly what he said he would do. Some things we won't even hear about so as not to compromise our operatives. I do believe that in a very short time, action will be taken that will be successful. I'm in this for the long haul. Every terrorist that is arrested or killed is one less animal to deal with. I don't care how we get them.
I will never forget.
Carl

[SARGE]

Carl, we're all in it for the long haul, as we have no choice. I am thankful that Bush is there and supported by so many experienced folks. I shudder at what Slick would be doing...

[LawyerRon]

Hey Sarge,
I know where you're coming from; the anti-war protestors are already out in force. They say we should give "peace a chance". Sound familiar?

[M. A. Dockter]

What to do if you happen upon a peace rally by stupid naive hemp-shirt-wearing college idiots, to teach them why force is sometimes needed:

1) Approach dumb rich ignorant student talking about "peace" and saying there should be, "no retaliation."

2) Engage in brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate.

3) When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"

4) Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence."

5) <b>IMPORTANT</b> When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.

6) When he gets back up to up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, "be awful and he should not cause more violence."

7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence.

8) Punch him in the face again, <i>harder this time</i>.
Repeat steps 6 through 8 until they understand that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.

[Kubie]

Dok,
For #5, can I have a roll of pennies in my fist and for #8, a roll of quarters?
I practiced on my punching bag last night. LOL
Carl

[Penguin]

I have been reading alot about this whole thing ever since it happend. I have taken soo much in and heard just about everything at least 4 times. However, there is one possibility that has never came up.

What happens if we capture Bin Laden? Do we put him on Trial? I say that since the US is "PC" ( That is Politcally Correct, and not Personal Computer. )yes. What happens when he is convited? Do we put him in jail? Again since the US is "PC" yes.

Well here is my point. Sorry it took so long to get here. While Bin Laden is in jail, don't you think that his followers will do what they and many other groups have done in the past when one of their members was in jail? That is highjack more plans and demand for him to be released immediatetly or they will start to kill the hostages. Now what do we do? Viscious circle all over again.

The answer. Make sure he is DEAD when we find him. I don't care if we bust into his hiding spot and capture him. At that moment just shoot to kill and ask no questions. There is no bring him back alive. If that is an option foreget the whole thing. It will be useless.

It is time for The US to stand up for its own people and demand that we will protect our nation and its people first. We have homeless people here that can't find shelter and food, yet we jsut sent millions of pounds of wheat and tents to a country we are planning on attacking. This is how we got into this mess. We need to get our noses out of everyone elses business and take care of the homeland first. Then if we have any time and resources left help the more needy people that actully appreciate it.

I don't know if you have read the Canadian radio guys commentary about 20 or so years ago wher he mentions that the US spends Billions of dollars to help other countries when personal tragedy has stuck. Yet when the mississippi floods and leaves thousands homeless no one helps. When Calif. had its major earthquake. No one helped. The list goes on. But yet we send our people, resources and money at the drop of any hardship a country has.

As you can tell I am very bitter that we have so much hardship in this country, and yet we continue to help others. If I was homeless and thank god I am not, I would be very pissed off that my country can help others, with probably the money I paid in taxes at some point, and not me.

So I say kill Bin Laden and any of his associates we can find, and then fix our own problems.

[Kubie]

penguin,
I agree about how to handle Bin Laden. To keep him alive would cause more trouble then he's worth.
Yes we have the homeless, but I can't help but feel that the majority are homeless because of decisions they've made. Since America is the land of opportunity, they have not taken the chance to make something of themselves. The reason I feel this way is because of interviews with the homeless. One young lady was asked if she had any relatives that could help her get on her feet. Her answer was " Yes, but they wouldn't allow illegal drugs in their home and I won't give them up". There other such stories out there. Please do not misunderstand me. There are homeless that are there through no fault of their own and I'm all for helping them get up and on their way. I just won't feed addicts that have refused help to kick their habit.
Carl

[Penguin]

Carlgif,

I agree 100% with you. It is a shame that there are some bad apples out there. The ones that annoy me are the ones that abuse the system. I don't think the system is that great to begin with, but there are too many loop holes.

I guess what I mean is that there is no way to sift through and determine which are homless because of misfortune and just need some help to get going again, and the ones that refuse to do what ever it takes to get back on their feet. But what I mean is that we can not refuse to help the people that really need it because of the ones that abuse it. One question I have is what is the percentage of people that need the help, and ones that could care less. However I do think think that the whole system needs to be reworked.

Anyway I didn't want to solve the homeless issue. I just wanted us to realize that we as a nation are to dependant on foreign oil. Because of this we are always trying to help the countries that we buy this from, and all of past experience has shown that this has done nothing but create enimies around the world.

We need to find a way around this and still be able to keep our nose out of the conflicts aroud the world. Why do we have to be the aggressor all the time. That is what the UN was suppose to be for, but when ever the UN is called upon guess who responds? The US, and we get very little help from the rest of the involved parties. We just need to limit our involvment in international affairs like everyone else in the world.

You know darn well that all these countries around the globe say they are behind the US 100%, but as soon as the first shot is fired, I want to see who is still actually still behind us. I can predict that there will be quite a few that change their tone, and some that say they are there, but won't put their money where their mouth is.

[Kubie]

Excellent post, penguin!!
What are you doing, reading my mind? :)
Carl

[SARGE]

Why do we have to be the aggressor all the time.

Penguin, wrong word (aggressor). We are usually the defenders, but that could involve some aggressiveness. Aggressor implies we're the ones causing trouble, at least to me.

As for the protests by the anti-war faction, we must remember there is a generation that never experienced war. They saw the Gulf War and Kosovo on CNN, but they were more clinical versus body bags coming home. Hell, I'm very anti-war but perhaps for different reasons than theirs'. I've seen it first hand for too long a period, and at such an early age, that I dread anymore of it.

[Penguin]

Sarge,

I am totally against war. It has never solved anything. However I am for getting rib of the scum that caused the unbelievable number of innocent deaths. But not to the extent that we cause more innocent people to die. If this happens then it will just become a horrific circle of "tag your it".

I call the US the aggressor, because if we were the "defenders", we would be fighting along with the military of the region we are defending and the UN. However, lately we alone are the ones fighting. Yeah I know there were a few British planes and a few other's that helped in the Gulf War, but I would say that 98% of all the fighting was done by the US troops. Aslo if we were "Defenders" we should be asking for other nations of the UN to step up and fill their part. We all know that won't happen and that is why the US aggressively pursues theses conflicts.

Don't get me wrong I am not disputing your comment, I am just explaining mine. I think we are both on the same page I just chose a different and probably more hash word to describe it.

[Speedy]

Hi,

Not sure this is the right thread to be posting this on but here goes.

I'm originally from England but I have lived in the Middle East for 19 years, currently in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Also I was on vacation in America when the tragedy happened, in Iowa though. My thoughts go out to everyone that has suffered because of this.

However, I do have to say that the "media" does wind people up and only show what they want the public to see. People think that because I am a woman (be it questionable at times..lol) that I am a second class person here, you couldnt be further from the truth. Yes, agreed there are a lot of restrictions in this area, some countries far worse than others, but at the end of the day, the sun shines all the time and I don't pay tax on my wages!

Who are we, "we" being the "west", to say what is right or wrong in another country, is it right to find a village in Africa that has never seen electricity and "TEACH" them our ways. Because they kill their first born if it is a girl in some places in India doesn't mean its wrong, to them its a way of survival.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying either way is right or wrong, its just something to think about.

And back to the reason why I started this, I personally don't want a war to happen, if we kill Bin Laden that isn't going to be the end of it. Do we really believe that 1 person is responsible for all this, more so it should be that he is simply a puppet for a much bigger "person".

So we kill him and someone else takes his place, as someone else said we will make a martye (can't spell) out of him. Jail, not an answer, 4 meals a day and a roof over his head? Sex change, well that isn't such a bad idea.

Personally I think we should take all the ...hmmmm trying to think of way to put this without swearing...child molesters, murderers, terrorists etc and do the AIDS testing, shampoo testing, major chemical testing on them rather than the animals. (please don't go thinking im an animal rights activist either) I just think that we could put their bodies to some good use instead of just killing them, because killing them to me...they get off lightly.

Thats it...speach over.
Thanks for reading and most sincere apologies if I have upset anyone.

Vic

[SARGE]

An update: it's now being referred to as an "incident". I guess 6000+ folks just don't matter. I knew this would happen...

[Gintaras]

Originally posted by SARGE
An update: it's now being referred to as an "incident". I guess 6000+ folks just don't matter. I knew this would happen...
-----
Erich Maria Remarque:
One death is a tragedy, many deaths are stats.
-----

Originally posted by SARGE
The first week, it was called War. Then it became a Crime. Now it's referred to as a tragedy.


-----
Any WAR is a TRAGEDY
-----

[Jade]

I myself still did not think out what's best for Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?

Alive: It would be like capturing Hitler or Mussallini alive, it would be a big downer for his hive of snakes and they may smoke themselves out. If Terrorist do retailiate all over, the world the War on terrorists will be that much easier. More co-alition among democracies and to terrorize countries with free people who freely chose to retaliate is the last enemy anyone will have.

Dead: Martyr, He will not be embarassed. I believe Bin Laden will chose to commit suicide before handing himself to western courts and be a living embarrased to his movement. Good news for us who want to criss-cross napalm bombs over his hairy ass.

Either way there is going to be an increase of collatoral damange on part of the free world's civilians

[WJWheels]

Originally posted by Speedy
Hi,

Not sure this is the right thread to be posting this on but here goes.

I'm originally from England but I have lived in the Middle East for 19 years, currently in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Also I was on vacation in America when the tragedy happened, in Iowa though. My thoughts go out to everyone that has suffered because of this.

However, I do have to say that the "media" does wind people up and only show what they want the public to see. People think that because I am a woman (be it questionable at times..lol) that I am a second class person here, you couldnt be further from the truth. Yes, agreed there are a lot of restrictions in this area, some countries far worse than others, but at the end of the day, the sun shines all the time and I don't pay tax on my wages!

Who are we, "we" being the "west", to say what is right or wrong in another country, is it right to find a village in Africa that has never seen electricity and "TEACH" them our ways. Because they kill their first born if it is a girl in some places in India doesn't mean its wrong, to them its a way of survival.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying either way is right or wrong, its just something to think about.

And back to the reason why I started this, I personally don't want a war to happen, if we kill Bin Laden that isn't going to be the end of it. Do we really believe that 1 person is responsible for all this, more so it should be that he is simply a puppet for a much bigger "person".

So we kill him and someone else takes his place, as someone else said we will make a martye (can't spell) out of him. Jail, not an answer, 4 meals a day and a roof over his head? Sex change, well that isn't such a bad idea.

Personally I think we should take all the ...hmmmm trying to think of way to put this without swearing...child molesters, murderers, terrorists etc and do the AIDS testing, shampoo testing, major chemical testing on them rather than the animals. (please don't go thinking im an animal rights activist either) I just think that we could put their bodies to some good use instead of just killing them, because killing them to me...they get off lightly.

Thats it...speach over.
Thanks for reading and most sincere apologies if I have upset anyone.

Vic So Speedy.. what's any of that BS have to do with some misguided a$$holes killing 6000 people and biting into the economy of those who feed their people???

[Speedy]

My earlier views where just thoughts...and not BS as you so eloquently put it. I thought this was a forum for disucssions and views!!!

I personally believe that with all the technology the FIB have, along with every other countries secret organisations etc that such things shouldn't happen in this day and age. I also believe that we are in the year 2001 and religious wars are simply pathectic. This is my own personal view and I do not say that someone else is wrong if they do not think the same.

I believe in conspiracies, a big long black table and the heads of every country meeting up and playing a big version of Risk..."Hey Saddam, Clinton is having a bit of trouble with Monica, mind if we bomb you for a day and take the heat off" This is just an example and I have no evidence for such...its plainly what I believe.

And as far as misguided...if you truely believe in something...and you are not alone...how can it be misguided!

[WJWheels]

Originally posted by Speedy
And as far as misguided...if you truely believe in something...and you are not alone...how can it be misguided! That's exactly the gist of what I got from your "thoughts". I don't see the correlation of <i>not being</i> misguided just because others share your belief. This act was just plain wrong, evil, and with no humane, moral, military or reciprical basis. It went way beyond "misguided". It also has nothing to do with a religious war.

I do believe as you, that it shouldn't have happened....not necessarily because of our FBI, CIA, technology, or any other reason than we should've anticipated it as a chess player would. If the terrorists have the capability to devise, plan, and execute such an act, than our people responsible should be able to anticipate that they would and steps should've been taken so it couldn't happen.

[Speedy]

Maybe I worded it wrong then...people are not misguided because they don't believe in what you believe. What they did was completely and utterly unjustified from my point of view and many many others...but to them it was justified, for whatever reasons they did it for.

I am definately not sticking up for them in any way shape or form...just trying to explain what I was said earlier.

Anyway, I'm watching the news now and the USA and UK have launched strikes on Afghanistan...what will be - will be.

[AlwaysUp]

I for one don't feel any empathy for the militant Islamic goons that I have been forced to listen to (pathetically inept translators, BTW) claiming all sorts of BS such as the War on Terrorism is a Jewish plot...The CIA somehow engineered the WTC attack. What a load of ....! I have yet to hear one of them that sound as intelligent as a saltine. How do they come to ideas of the West that they hold.....years of listening to Mullahs that teach hate, that's how. This is a religion?

[SARGE]

We must learn tolerance and study other cultures.

[bob]

Originally posted by SARGE
We must learn tolerance and study other cultures.

SARGE, I have been there, done that, but what is next?

For some reason when I go downtown to work I feel in more danger than the pilots dropping the bombs. I know I am wrong to think that but I guess the empty freeways, lack of planes in the sky, police every mile, possibility of anthrax on the mail, crop dusters with ground Plutonium.....

Well, seems to me its time to do or wait.

[Hpro]

This below hasn't grown in my backyard or isn't written by me but a friend send it to me - and now this is may even worth to think about -may this would be excatly what would be needed...

As for what to do with Osama bin Laden:

Killing him will only create a martyr.

Holding him prisoner will inspire his comrades to take hostages to demand
his release.

Therefore, I suggest we do neither.

Let the Special Forces, Seals or whatever covertly capture him, fly him to
an undisclosed hospital and have surgeons quickly perform a complete sex
change operation.

Then we return her to Afghanistan to live as a woman under the Taliban.

Sorry I don't know the author of this but it makes sense...

[SARGE]

How do you make a "He" a "She"?

[Hpro]

what do you think what those do which are men and like to become women - I this very way -

[troysvihl]

How do you make a "He" a "She"?

That surgery show on The Learning Channel has shown exactly how. In fact, it went through excrutiating detail of how it occurs.

[WJWheels]

I think learning how to shop and enjoying it would be the hard part.

[bob]

Originally posted by WJWheels
I think learning how to shop and enjoying it would be the hard part.

LOL. sHE could order out with a cell phone. ;)

[SARGE]

Love that ;) You prompted me to consider something. If'n I take away her shopping and cell phone, she would be a little, well, how do you say, "angry". She likes being a she.