Help with upgrade

[Cooper101]

Ok, I have a system I built a few years ago and I am getting ready to upgrade the mobo, processor, ram and vid card. I have 3 goals in mind.

1. Spend between $500 to $600.

2. Be able to play World of Warcraft with the settings turned up and still get a framrate of like 20 to 30 in 25 man raids or in Shattrath.

3. Install everything and NOT have to reinstall the OS, just load the new drivers for the mobo and the vid card.

Here are the components I have chosen from Newegg:

BIOSTAR TForce TF7025-M2 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 7025 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813138074)

XFX PVT84JYAJG GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814150247)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor 3.2GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX6400CZWOF - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819103191)

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820231098)

ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16835118019)

So I have two questions:

1. Is this going to do what I want it to do?

2. Could I do better for the money I am spending?

Any help would be appreciated. :)

P.S. I am thinking of upgrading the memory to 4 gigs considering how cheap the memory is.

[Katreat]

I have not done much with AMD for years so I will leave that to others. But, if this computer is truely a gamer your biggest upgrade will need to be your video card. I played WOW on my last computer which ran a X800XT and usually had over 20 FPS, although in IF it would drop below that. The 8600 is just a small step above the old X800 series so would not expect a major improvment. If the most important thing is the get your FPS rate up I would highly recommend moving up to the 8800 series. If WOW is the only game you play you can probably get by with the new 8800 GT (256) or something in the 3850 series. Right now I get about 60 FPS in game and stay well over 40 in any city with my GTS (320) and all setting cranked up to high. That might be a bit of overkill for your needs, WOW is not that demanding of a game, but if FPS is your primairy goal I think you should put a little more cash into the video card area of your build.

Check out this video card review:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/03/the_best_gaming_graphics/index.html

Kat

[Cooper101]

So Katreat, would this card fall into the specs you mentioned?

EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130082)

[Cricket]

So Katreat, would this card fall into the specs you mentioned?

EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130082)Yes, but you might want to look at a 8800GT instead.

:) Cricket

[Cooper101]

Yes, but you might want to look at a 8800GT instead.

:) Cricket

Maybe I am looking for this in the wrong way, but all I can find at Newegg for a PCI Express x16 is:

GeForce 8400GS
GeForce 8500GT
GeForce 8600GT
GeForce 8600GTS
GeForce 8800GTS
GeForce 8800GTX
GeForce 8800Ultra

I'm not finding a GeForce 8800GT? :confused:

BTW, The motherboard I am looking at does not have a PCI Express 2.0 slot, if that makes a difference. Plus, I have to keep the total cost below $600.

[hitchface]

The GT is short in supply right now. Keep checking Newegg, and when you see it, grab it.

[Katreat]

That is the card that I am using but the newer GT (512) is cheaper and faster.

They also have a new 256 version of that card which would probably work wonderfully with WOW. WOW does not push a card like a FPS would.

If you really cant find a GT then I would take a hard look at the Radion competion, the 3850 series. I think it comes in two flavers also (256 and 512), and has been getting very good reviews.

I know that alll these options will cost you more than your original choice, but if gaming is your primary goal you need to spend a bit more on the video card, thats just how it is.

Kat

[Cooper101]

Ok that's cool, can you give me a link to a PCI Express x16 card that would meet that need? All the cards people have mentioned so far seem (At least what I have been able to find) PCI Express x2.0 cards.

Maybe I could change the mobo.....:o

[Masaki 7-11]

PCI Express x2.0 cards are backward compatible with the x16 slots, so you won't have any problems installing one in your motherboard. However I would change the motherboard for two reasons, biostar isn't a good of a quality motherboard as those from asus, and secondly I would pick out a normal ATX motherboard if you can fit it in your case since they have more room for expansion and are generally faster since they use better chipsets. Take a look at this mother board from asus:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131234
It has PCI-Express 2.0, normal ATX, fast chipset, and supports the phenom processors.

Also regarding video card, for an AMD system with an AMD chipset, the HD3800 series compare much better to the 8800gt than on intel systems, so that may be a choice for you since the HD3800 series cards are in good supply, have a good price, and are quiet.

[Cooper101]

PCI Express x2.0 cards are backward compatible with the x16 slots, so you won't have any problems installing one in your motherboard. However I would change the motherboard for two reasons, biostar isn't a good of a quality motherboard as those from asus, and secondly I would pick out a normal ATX motherboard if you can fit it in your case since they have more room for expansion and are generally faster since they use better chipsets. Take a look at this mother board from asus:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131234
It has PCI-Express 2.0, normal ATX, fast chipset, and supports the phenom processors.

Also regarding video card, for an AMD system with an AMD chipset, the HD3800 series compare much better to the 8800gt than on intel systems, so that may be a choice for you since the HD3800 series cards are in good supply, have a good price, and are quiet.

Hmmm ok, can you link a processor and a vid card for this that you would reccomend?

[Cooper101]

Maybe I am going about this wrong. Maybe I should just ask, to meet my goals of FPS when playing WoW (the only real game I play, I ocassionally play some older FPS like Call of Duty 2 etc.) and coming in under $600.00 what Mobo, processor, Memory and Vid card would you choose?

[Masaki 7-11]

You'll have to reinstall the OS when upgrading your computer motherboard, you should be able to do a repair install and keep all your files, but it's best to back up data before you upgrade so in case something goes wrong, you can keep your data and use it once everything is fixed up. I'll make a list for a $600, but i will need to know what kind of case and power supply you already have.

[Cooper101]

Well the case is an APEVIA X-Dreamer II (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144026)

I have installed a Broadway Com Corp P4OKIA600-Blue ATX 600W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817162015)

I have 4 case fans and a Ultra 5.25" Bay Freezer with 2 - 60mm Cooling Fans - Black (http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=14&pPath=68&productID=68)

I have two DVD drives and two Hard Drives. (they are all PATA but I plan on using 2 PATA (IDE) Hard Drive to SATA port Converter on the two hard drives.)
(http://www.cooldrives.com/idehadrtosap.html)
I also have a AMC AICR-01-BK All in one USB 2.0 Card Reader - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820162610)

I have KWORLD X-Pert DVD Maker PCI Card VS-L883D PCI Interface (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815100120) video capture card.

That's about it. :)

[Masaki 7-11]

do you have an OS disc?

[Masaki 7-11]

Here's the list:


ASUS M3A AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
$99.99

HIS Hightech H387F512NP Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
$249.99

mushkin 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996527
$46.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5400IAA5DO
$99.99

ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler
$63.99

Subtotal: $545.95

[Cooper101]

do you have an OS disc?


Yes, XP Professional.

[Masaki 7-11]

Excellent, then you're pretty much all set to go, the processor is not as fast as in your first post, but is much more efficient, but when combined with the fast asus motherboard, and the really fast HD3870, it will be much faster for gaming than your original combination.

[Cooper101]

Here's the list:


ASUS M3A AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
$99.99

HIS Hightech H387F512NP Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
$249.99

mushkin 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996527
$46.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5400IAA5DO
$99.99

ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler
$63.99

Subtotal: $545.95

Thank you!

2.8 ghz cpu? I don't need something faster? (If my ignorance is showing I apologize. :confused: )

[Cooper101]

Whoops just saw your post! Thanks again!:)

So does anyone have any comments on Masaki 7-1's1 build?

Also, considering how cheap memory is, is it worth getting 4gigs?

[Katreat]

I am a bit out of the loop on AMD so cant comment on that part of the build. I agree that Asus is a much better board than Biostar. The 3870 is a fantastic video card and you should have no problem getting your frame rate with it. If playing only WOW you could probably even drop down to the 3850 series and have excellent FPS rates.

As for 4 GB of ram the short answer is NO. Two GB is plenty. I am running my system using Vista 32, which is a ram hog, and it still runs smoothly with just 2 GB. Also, XP will only recognize 3.2 GB so to really take advantage of it you would need Vista 64. Vista 64 has been getting decent reviews but there is still quite a bit of software that will not support 64 bit OS so unless you need it you are better off staying with a 32 bit OS.

That new video card is 10X so at some point in the future, when WOW or some new game you get interested in goes 10X, you might want to jump to Vista anyway at which point you can re-visit the ram question. Ram is easy to add and until DDR3 becomes the standard it will just continue to get cheeper.

Kat

[Cooper101]

Thanks Kat! I forgot to mention I occasionally do some video editing, perhaps going to 3 gigs might be a good idea. Anyways, something I can think about after I get this puppy up and running.

I've had bad experiences with ATI cards and WoW in the past, (Plus the multi display interface left something to be desired) are there no Geforce cards you might recommend? Or are my fears unfounded?

Also, do I really have to do a repair install? Any reason I can't just boot in safe mode, load the mobo drivers, then the video card drivers and reboot?

This is my first time doing this without a format of the old drive and a reinstall of everything, but I just did that 3 months ago and I get a twitch in my left eye every time I start thinking about reinstalling ALL that software again. :eek:

Thanks again everyone for the solid advice. :)

[Katreat]

A compairable Geforece card to the ATI 3870 is the 8800 GT. I know a few people using 8800 cards on AMD systems and they have not had any problems. ATI is owned by AMD so it could be true that they might work better with AMD products than Nividia, but I doubt you would notice much difference. Personally, I always prefered ATI cards myself, but when I last buildt ATI was slow to get the 3800 series out and de-bugged so they lost my buisness for that build. I have been seeing great reviews for the 3800 series now that they got their drivers figured out so I think you would be fine with either.

As for a repair install I think the answear is yes. When you chang the Mobo windows requires a re-install. As far as it is concerned you just changed computers at that point. If you are re-using the HD you can do a repair install and save a bit of time. I am pretty sure there is a post somewhere around this site with instructions for a repair install but have not found it yet, if I do I will post a link. As Masaki suggested, do a full back up of thiings you want to keep safe before turning off your old computer. All re-installs are kinda iffy at times.

Kat

[Cooper101]

Ok, I think I found the repair install instructions, are these them?

*Repair Install
1. Insert the Windows XP CD into your computer's CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, and then restart your computer.

2. When the "Press any key to boot from CD" message appears on the screen, press a key to start your computer from the Windows XP CD.

Note Your computer must be configured to start from the CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive. For more information about how to configure your computer to start from the CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, see your computer's documentation or contact your computer manufacturer.

3. You receive the following message on the Welcome to Setup screen that appears:
This portion of the Setup program prepares Microsoft Windows XP to run on your computer:

To setup Windows XP now, press ENTER.

To repair a Windows XP installation using Recovery Console, press R.

To quit Setup without installing Windows XP, press F3.

Press ENTER to set up Windows XP.

4. On the Windows XP Licensing Agreement screen, press F8 to agree to the license agreement.

5. Make sure that your current installation of Windows XP is selected in the box, and then press R to repair Windows XP.

6. Follow the instructions that appear on the screen to reinstall Windows XP. After you repair Windows XP, you may have to reactivate your copy of Windows XP.

As with a fresh install, you will have to reinstall any updates you've previously installed.

Also, my install disk of XP Pro is pre SP1, but it is a valid license key, I did a fresh install a few months ago and I had no problems, (took forever to do all the upgrades tho.) Will I have any problems using this disc to do the repair install?

[Alaron]

I realize you have already purchased it, but please upgrade that power supply. There is no such thing as a quality power supply with 600w for only $25. OKIA is a terrible brand to use (the Broadway builder).

Take a look at this thread for power information: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

[Masaki 7-11]

Since the build is $545 ish, there's a decent amount of money left over to buy a better power supply, or if you want to save more money, you could go for a HD3850 instead. A good 500Watt power supply from the recommended brands should suffice.

[Katreat]

Unfortunately, I think you will have to do all the upgrades again :(

I have personally never done a repair install. I have always just re-formated the HD and started all over. I figure by the time you replace a Mobo it is probably time for a little house cleaning anyway. But if you did a full re-install just a few months ago the repair might at least save you having to install all the rest of your software.

Kat

[Cooper101]

Since the build is $545 ish, there's a decent amount of money left over to buy a better power supply, or if you want to save more money, you could go for a HD3850 instead. A good 500Watt power supply from the recommended brands should suffice.

Ok, I can do that. I tried looking at the calculators and the reviews. Could you just name a brand and I'll add a 500w power supply from them to my list. :)

[Masaki 7-11]

Try Antec, they are good, and the basiq version of 500W is around $60, here's the link to it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371004

[Cooper101]

Try Antec, they are good, and the basiq version of 500W is around $60, here's the link to it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371004

Sounds good, Thanks! :)

[monsterZer0]

I'm after the same thing as Cooper101, essentially. I thought I'd piggyback on his thread, but if this is a problem, I can start fresh. Let me know.

And breaking protocol, I don't really care if it's AMD or Intel for my upgrade. For the last few years, I've been going the AMD route, but what the heck?! What I'm really after is a killer motherboard + CPU combo.

I've been partial to ATI, rather than Nvidia, when it comes to videocards, but again, why be picky? I can swing for either. Just forget about shelling out for 2 of the damn things! You can't convince me to go twice the price for obsolescence, no way, no how.

I don't want to spend more than $600.00. To achieve the true "double-dose" Upgrayedd I need to buy:

Mainboard
CPU
2 gigs of RAM
Videocard

My power supply is still ok, an Antec 500W, coincidentally enough. Everything else looks ok. Good onboard sound is important to me. I'll be playing Call of Duty 4 on this rig, and most importantly, BioShock.

What's your opinion and advice?

[Masaki 7-11]

Most motherboards come with realtek onboard sound which has no EAX support, so you should look into buying a discrete sound card. This should work fine and is a good price:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102012

[monsterZer0]

I didn't think about eax support. I want spdif optical out, and the Creative card, though nicely priced doesn't offer it. What's your take on this Turtle Beach?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16829118109

[Masaki 7-11]

Never heard of Turtle Beach, but this card is quite good and comes from a good manufacturer, it's also about the same price, and has a better sound processor than the first sound card I recommended:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102017

[monsterZer0]

That card will be the one, I think, Masaki 7-11. Thank you.

If I go AMD, here's the mobo/cpu combo I was considering...
Mainboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130136
CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103226

What memory would you recommend with that set-up?

If I go Intel, here's the mobo/cpu combo I was considering...
Mainboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188015
CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029

Recommended memory?

Of course, I am utterly clueless regarding PCI-Express videocards.

[doubledragon5]

You should start a new thread, they frown on highjacking someone elses thread..

[doubledragon5]

Never heard of Turtle Beach, but this card is quite good and comes from a good manufacturer, it's also about the same price, and has a better sound processor than the first sound card I recommended:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102017

It us to be Trutle Beach Santa Cruse. I have one in a 7yr old Dell 8200 and it still works fine..

[Masaki 7-11]

That card will be the one, I think, Masaki 7-11. Thank you.

If I go AMD, here's the mobo/cpu combo I was considering...
Mainboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130136
CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103226

What memory would you recommend with that set-up?

If I go Intel, here's the mobo/cpu combo I was considering...
Mainboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188015
CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029

Recommended memory?

Of course, I am utterly clueless regarding PCI-Express videocards.

I would go with AMD since you want future proof system, and quad core is the way to go for those type of computers. AMD is also much better for upgrading later on than Intel. For ram I would recommend a 2x1GB OCZ kit, preferably around a $50 price point since it's good quality ram and pretty fast. Regarding graphics, I would go with an ATI graphics card since they work well on the AMD chipsets and are at good prices. Basically you have three choices and three price points for a graphics card, HD3850 256MB for around $150, HD3850 512MB for around $200 and HD3870 512MB for around $250. If you have enough money I would go for a 512MB card since newer games continue to increase the amount of video ram they use, and running multiple cards in crossfire won't increase the amount of video ram available to the game.

[monsterZer0]

But, first I gotta say thanks, to:
Cooper101 for starting it, and saying almost exactly what I wanted to say, and Masaki 7-11 for the advice.
doubledragon5, thanks for the heads-up.

[Cooper101]

HIS Hightech H387F512NP Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
$249.99

Ok this card is no longer available, Masaki 7-11 would you consider the MSI RX3870-T2D512E OC Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127315) to be a good substitute?

[hitchface]

To my knowledge, ATi's manufacturing standards are quite high. It is tough to find a low quality card from them no matter who you get it from. Of course there are exceptions to the rule somewhere, but MSI wouldn't be one of them.

[Masaki 7-11]

Since it's a reference card design, it will work up to ATI's manufacturing standards, and if bought from Newegg, warranty won't be an issue. I've worked with MSI products before and haven't had any problems, so if the card is working when it arrives, then you won't likely have any problems.

[Cooper101]

Ok guys I have put the system together and am now reinstalling all the software. I have two concerns:

1. The onboard sound volume is kinda low, even with everything turned up.

2. The usb ports in the front of the case are not being recognized as 2.0 USB ports but as 1.0.

Any suggestions?

[hitchface]

Have all of the motherboard drivers been not only installed, but updated from the manufacturer's website?

[Cooper101]

Yep all my mobo and Vid Card drivers are the latest versions.

[Cooper101]

Just to get all the facts on the table, Here is the mobo:

ASUS M3A AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16813131234)

I have the Realtek ALC883 Audio Driver WHQL V5.10.0.5464 for Windows XP & 64bit XP installed which is the latest version.

I have a 1/8 stereo jack splitter plugged into the rear lime green speaker output jack.

One output of the splitter goes to my speakers and the other goes to the front case jack.

On the front jack I have another splitter. One output of that splitter goes to my headset and the other goes to another set of headphones I use when I am watching a DVD on my computer while sitting in my easy chair.

I have a video capture card (for watching TV on my PC) which has a 1/8 stereo jack plug which I have plugged into the rear line in plug.


My previous set-up was exactly the same except I was using the on board sound from the Soyo Dragon KT600 + mobo and I never had any problems with volume except the volume from the vid cap card was a little low.

NOW with this new mobo the onboard sound has to be turned up all the way on all the sliders (the Windows Sound Sliders, the application sound slider etc...) to hear anything at a normal volume.

And the sound from the vid cap card is barely audible.

HOWEVER, when I unplug the splitter from the jacks in the front of the case the volume goes up quite noticeably. Is the mobo just not pumping out enough juice? I am planning on replacing the front jacks with a SILVERSTONE SST-FP32-B Aluminum USB/1394/Audio Panel (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813999356) which has on board audio connectors rather than the plugs that have to get plugged into the back jacks. Will that solve the problem or do I need to get a third party sound card? :confused: :confused: :confused: