Here's your challenge...

[oosik]

...is the MB bad and does it need to get replaced under warranty?

Sorry if this is long winded, you can check sig for what I am referring to.

The system when I first got it worked fine, it came with 1GB Patriot but added 2 GB Corsair soon after. The system would freeze on rare occassions, but never took it too seriously. Soon after installing Company of Heroes, it would freeze up more often. Then once in a while during Hellgate and then on to Trackmania racing game. But it was always during those games never during normal usage. The freezes became common enough for me to try and firgure out wth was going on.

At first I thought it was a temp issue, but all CPU and GPU temps were within standards {original graphics card was a 7900GTX}. Then thought it was memory failing so I ran memtest with negative results. All tests passed. But I wasn't satisfied and after some online advice I started moving memory around. Tried just the 2 GB corsair, still froze. Tried just the 1 GB Patriot, froze. Went and bought the 8800GT, since it was so cheap, while purchasing the 4 GB Mushkin, still freezes up. All the memory was clocked at 400(800), though, the timings between the patriot and corsair were different, nothing changed when the Mushkin went in.

Adjusted voltages in BIOS for the memory, still froze. I can't recall if I tried under clocking the CPU or not tho, now that I think about it, though I could have sworn I had adjusted CPU setting at one point. Though not to O/C.

Thought it was software related but nothing good transpired. Checked and rechecked all the drivers, no change.

Now during this painful time in my life my PSU actually cooked itself. Arced and sparked and the magic smoke rose form the back. AW changed it out under warranty and put in a Newton PSU(???). Still froze up on me but now it seemed more prevelant. I thought it was this very obscure, unheard of PSU. At the time it didnt understand the different rail voltages and thought that was it, but that wasn't the case. Though I still believed it was AW trying to cut corners using a crappy PSU and it not being able to supply power as required.

Back on the phone with tech support, all kinds of things were discussed at length. (I was also getting ready to move out of my house at the time all this was going on) Tech support wanted me to underclock my memory to see if that would affect it as well as disconnect from the internet seeing all the games were MP. Disconnected from the router and played SP games or watched CoH replays, still froze up. I found I could not under clock the corsair or the Mushkin. But I could underclock the Patriot.

I installed just the 1GB Patriot and U/C to 266(533) and ran it for about an hour with CoH and TMN. While the system was painfully slow with so little memory, the system never froze up, but it was only an hour. so the packers come and move me out.

I move to my new place and set everything up with the mushkin reinstalled, still having freezes. I call AW and let them know what happened with the U/C memory and that I had no freezes. The set up to RMA my system to replace the MB. Though Im still not confident of this PSU. So before wrapping things up I order and recieve a Corsair 750W PSU and install it. Ran it for a handful of hours and everthing went fine, figured it was a PSU issue after all. The next day(yesterday) I run it some more, then finally, Freeze UP! Dammit! Not the PSU after all. Ran a few coh replays and played one MP game online, freeze.

So I went back, for shitz and giggles and installed the 1 GB Patriot in dual channel and under clocked it to 533 again (1066FSB) and so far the system has not frozen up. But it is slow as hell. I'll continue running the 1GB thru the weekend just to make sure but so far it seems the memory won't run at rated speeds.

I have run 3DMark06 twice, both times the tests went fine with no freezes and this was with the 4GB Mushkin and default speed settings...?
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Questions:
My BIOS, as I'm sure some of you know, has memory performance options AUTO, LINKED and MANUAL. I set it to manual to adjust to 533 but left the FSB at 1066. Keeping in spirit with what I'm doing are there other combinations of timings I could try to better define whether it's the MB? OR does all this point the being a MB problem?

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If you read this whole thing, you get a cupcake!
If you read this whole thing and respond, you get a cupcake and a quarter!!
If you just skimmed through and ask me to do something I have already done, I'm stuffing a live squid down your pants!!!

Thanks for your time!

[not important]

Did you check any of the RAM with MemTest?

[Masaki 7-11]

Have you updated the bios recently? If you haven't, you should take a look at doing so as it may let you run the new ram without problems.

[MaxRat]

I would just send it in for RMA...

Sounds like a hardware issue of some sorts...it could be a windows issue...

Have you checked the Event Viewer to see if there are any errors....?

[oosik]

Did you check any of the RAM with MemTest?


CONGRATS! You get a live squid.

Yes I did!

[oosik]

Have you updated the bios recently? If you haven't, you should take a look at doing so as it may let you run the new ram without problems.


I've looked into that a few days ago, but it was for support for other CPU's. Plus I don't have a floppy drive and every method out there for updating these latest bios looks to be a real PITA. Still don't understand why it's such a convoluted method just to update the bios, figured they would have come out with a simplier process. But I'll recheck, I believe my latest bios is 0603.

[oosik]

I would just send it in for RMA...

Sounds like a hardware issue of some sorts...it could be a windows issue...

Have you checked the Event Viewer to see if there are any errors....?

I have checked the event viewer right after having to reboot but the only thing that shows up around the time of a freeze are ACPI related errors. What I learned about this is that this is common in all Vista versions according to MS and to just ignore it. As it stands, all ACPI in bios is 'off', as recommended by MS and anything ACPI related in vista is set to stay on all the time.

There is no time frame when it freezes up, completely random, though lately it seems to take quite a while, with the exception of my u/c 1GB.

[oosik]

I've also tried disabling the onboard sound, since that is what I use, to rule that out....negative results.

I just noticed my system as 2 PCIe x16 slots...duh.....would putting the vid card in the 2nd one make any difference or should it remain in the first slot since it's the only one?

[MaxRat]

Actually if it's the board in your sig flashing the bios of CD or USB drive is much easier/safer than floppy....easy as pie and alot quicker for me...

by all means try the video card in another slot...

if it were me I would reset the cmos to default and try it...if it still freezes I would load windows to a spare drive if you can get on or have one and try that with all your programs installed...

[oosik]

well i just flashed to the latest bios, 0901, tho i will leave the vid card in it's slot, more becuase the manual suggests it, tho I may try thie other if I still get freezes.

In regards to reloading windows to antoehr drive, they way it is presently set up is Vista is on the 74GB drive will everything else is on seperate HDDs. The one spare drive I could load windows onto is my backup drive whcih only has a backup of vista so 99% of 465GB is free. You think a fresh install on that drive or install the image? i/m thinking fresh......let me just test this new bios with the 4gb and see what happens.

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4GB back in, bios updated, so far so good on TMN after an hour or so...
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[oosik]

tested CoH for a few hours last night, no freezes. maybe it was the bios update. ill have to put the original PSU back in, covers back on just to make sure tho.

[Teh OMEGA]

So... Did updating the bios work?

[oosik]

Funny....all day I was saying "yay, bios fixed it". all day runing coh watching replays and losing online, playing TMN for a handful of hours. Had you asked me that question 1 hour ago, I would have said yes. But it just froze up, not 30 seconds ago during a coh replay! seemed the bios did nothing more than buy me some time before the inevitable.

no, i guess it did not fix it. I guess i'm back to reinstalling all the OEM crap and sending it back! maybe I get a different (newer) MB out of it!

thx for asking!

[MaxRat]

have you done any hard drive test to make sure your drive isnt dieing ?

sounds like a PSU issue almost but the Corsair unit should be bullet proof...I am powering my Q6700/9600gt rig with a HX520 unit...

[oosik]

have you done any hard drive test to make sure your drive isnt dieing ?

sounds like a PSU issue almost but the Corsair unit should be bullet proof...I am powering my Q6700/9600gt rig with a HX520 unit...


The HDD with the proggies on it is a WD and I ran their diag's on it about 6-8 months ago when I though it was that, plus I had XP installed at the time. I did have some bad sectors which were fixed with the utilities, then soon after a fresh install of vista.

the reason for the corsair PSU was because I was borderline convinced it was this obscure Newton PSU. Funny thing is, the system has run longer with out any freezes with the corsair than it has with the other one. But still eventually froze up. Then the bios update, again, ran forever with no issues, then all of a sudden, freeze again!

Question, any way a pagefile could cause a freeze? Back when I was only testing the 1GB underclocked, I noticed that there would be "hesitations" while watching CoH replays which appeared to be accessing the pagefile, though it never froze! But with each hesitation there was hdd access. I just defragged last night, not sure if that did anything.

[oosik]

Before I left for work today, I set Vista's file backup to backup all my hdd's....when I came home i noticed it was frozen at about the 1/3 mark so it never finished. This is a new freeze up for me as it wasn't game related. Maybe it's a board/memory interface issue.......

[bucksfanjimj]

I think it's time to run the drive diagnostics again.

[cmillar6]

I would replace the drive, bad sectors never go away, they just keep spreading. All the utility program does is mark the bad sectors for non use.

[RoadStar]

oosik...when you first set this system up, did you run it at stock settings with all the MS updates for a day or so before having any of these problems? Did you let it sit at idle, and make sure the System Idle Process sits at 98-100% with nothing running or any input? If not, did you trouble shoot why it is not and find out what is robbing system recourses? Did you then start intstalling programs and apps and test the system after each install?

The first thing you have to do before clocking a new system is first make sure it works to specs and there are no issues with hardware or software and after that, then start playing with settiings in the BIOS. And unless you are an expert at this, write down each and every change you make and what the result was so you can approach your problems in a systematic way. The hardware end of systems is the easy part. Making it work with your software and OS is the challenge and always will be.

[oosik]

I would replace the drive, bad sectors never go away, they just keep spreading. All the utility program does is mark the bad sectors for non use.

Let me correct my own bad info..........the WDC is the 74GB drive which is just Vista. the d: drive is a samsung 250GB dirve which has all my proggies and a majority of my data, which is the drive that contains the proggies and the files that were being backed up at the time, when the computer freezes.

The bad sectors were on the WDC drive, the utilities told me that the sectors were fixed, whatever that means.

Back the 250GB samsung, it's the only drive, for some reason, that was partitioned as a logicial drive, while my other 3 HDDs were partitioned as primariy partitions....could that be an issue?

I do have a 500 GB hdd, that was supposed to be my back up drive that I could transfer all my d: drive stuff to, re-letter the drive and trying running everything off of it.

Thoug I will run the WDC utilities as suggested just to make sure.

I don't care about sending the computer back, it's just going to be a PITA having to reinstall the old PSU, vid card and 1GB memory, reload the requisite drivers, pack it up, call fedex, print out label, stay home from work until they shot up to pick up the box.........just a logisitcal headache.

@Roadstar
Well everything is still stock settings and has been that way, while I have toyed around with some O/C here and there it always went back to stock as I saw little benefit from what little I did, besides I got tired of having to reboot all the time. So everything is back to stock settings. I've had freeze ups during heavy use as long as I've had this thing, as long as I can remember.

I think I'm going to move everything to the one drive, reformat the d: drive to a primary partition and see what's up.

Still doesn't explain why this system will run with only 1GB ram underclocked to 533 with no freeze ups tho!

[Masaki 7-11]

Have you taken a look at what kind of temperature your processor and northbridge are running at? If you haven't, get the Asus PC Probe and check what kind of temperatures you are getting at idle, and what kind you are getting during load (a easy way to get your computer to 100% usage is to use two instances of CPU Burn-In (Set the affinity of one instance to core 0 and the other to core 1)).

[oosik]

Have you taken a look at what kind of temperature your processor and northbridge are running at? If you haven't, get the Asus PC Probe and check what kind of temperatures you are getting at idle, and what kind you are getting during load (a easy way to get your computer to 100% usage is to use two instances of CPU Burn-In (Set the affinity of one instance to core 0 and the other to core 1)).


Yea i did do temp checks on the cores and gpu...not the bridges tho.....cores and gpu are good under load..
nless i DLd the wrong program asus probe doesn't monitor the bridges.....not on mine anyway, besides, I can't say I've ever heard of anyone having heat issues on a standard setting MB.....

[RoadStar]

I`m still curious what this thing does at dead idle with no load. In Task Manager\Performance, does the CPU graph sit at idle,0%, and under the prosesses tab, does the System Idle Process show 98-100%, while doing nothing? The reason I`m asking this is if not, then something is running that shouldn`t be and this will definately affect performance whether set up at stock settings or OCed. Especially if it is a driver issue which can be isolated and fixed, but first we would have to see if this thing does settle down and rest when it is supposed to.

I noticed in another forum you mentioned problems with ACPI and that you also have done a BIOS upgrade. The upgrade *should* fix the issue with ACPI but if you still have a driver issue, there`s more work to be done.

[oosik]

Additional info:

I moved everything from the 250GB to 500GB just to rule out issues with that hdd, TMN froze on me within the first minute.

I`m still curious what this thing does at dead idle with no load. In Task Manager\Performance, does the CPU graph sit at idle,0%, and under the prosesses tab, does the System Idle Process show 98-100%, while doing nothing?

CPU bounces around between 0-3%, but not constantly. After intial boot, it doesn't do much of anything. As for system Idle process I'm not sure how to find the percentage you're looking for, I get occasional hdd grinding but nothing really out of the ordinary. When I check the processes tab right now the only thing showing even the slightest usage is the task manage that I have open.

As for ACPI I found out that those errors are normal in vista and really don't pertain to anything. Those issues were along the lines of what I have been contending with.

system idle process FOUND IT.................. 98-99%

The upgrade *should* fix the issue with ACPI but if you still have a driver issue, there`s more work to be done.
Not sure how it's a driver issue, like I said, if I install 1GB and underclock it, the system, while very slow, still runs WITH NO freezes??

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On another note, though I don't think it's related, I've had an on-going issue with one of the IE7 security updates not installing properly. This issue is being addressed as we type with MS security update people, whomever they are, and they have been putting forth quite amount of effort trying to help me resolve it. I can't say whether these 2 things have anything to do with each other, and I have a tendency to doubt that they do, but I thought I'd throw that out there anyway.
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[oosik]

is there anything in the BIOS I should be concerned about that would allow 1GB to run underclocked with no issues but 3-4GB standard clock with freezes?

[RoadStar]

Well, your system acts as it should at idle so it`s a fair assumption there is nothing running out of the ordinary as far as software or any abnormal hardware interupts.

The memory thing, if you set up the bios at default settings, everything at AUTO detect you should have a system that runs stable and detects your RAM and CPU without anything but maybe a minor tweak here or there, provided the memory and CPU is compatible with your MOBO. Since you seem to be having problems running your memory at stock settings, my next question would be if the memory is compatible with your MOBO. You shouldn`t have to underclock memory to run a stable system. Try default settings in the BIOS and if you have memory problems then, I tend to think either, bad mem stick(s) or incompatiible memory for your MOBO.

[oosik]

Try default settings in the BIOS and if you have memory problems then, I tend to think either, bad mem stick(s) or incompatiible memory for your MOBO.

Everything has been running stock/default. I'm not thinking it's bad sticks because, ATM, I'm running 4GB mushikin, it will eventually freeze under certain conditions, if I switch to 1GB+2GB=3GB, it will do the same thing, if I only use 2GB, it will freeze, if I use 1GB it will freeze. It's only when that 1GB is underclocked with it run stable. Now I can go through the process again of swapping out memory configurations just to check again, but that was teh route everything had gone about month and half ago. The 1GB is the ram that can be underclocked, the others aren't rated.....as per SPD anyway.

[Masaki 7-11]

At this point I would take a look at replacing the motherboard. If it is not possible to get a replacement motherboard from Alienware, I would take a look at getting an Asus or Gigabyte P45 motherboard (if not using SLI) from either newegg or a local computer store.

[oosik]

I'll probably go thru the weekend and then set up to have it picked up monday sometime, then talk to AW about an upgraded MB/different model.

[RoadStar]

Everything has been running stock/default. I'm not thinking it's bad sticks because, ATM, I'm running 4GB mushikin, it will eventually freeze under certain conditions, if I switch to 1GB+2GB=3GB, it will do the same thing, if I only use 2GB, it will freeze, if I use 1GB it will freeze. It's only when that 1GB is underclocked with it run stable. Now I can go through the process again of swapping out memory configurations just to check again, but that was teh route everything had gone about month and half ago. The 1GB is the ram that can be underclocked, the others aren't rated.....as per SPD anyway.

Now I`m really confused. Ok, right now you are running 4G Mushkin. I *assume* 2Gx2 and also *assuming* the sticks are compatible with your board. Ok, also *assuming* you have this set up completely auto in BIOS, meaning, the BIOS auto detects your CPU\RAM and sets the FSB, multipliers, etc. itself and you have made no changes whatsoever, we`re running completely with BIOS in AUTO detect and nothing else, you should have at the least a stable system running yet.......... it freezes under "certain conditions".

Ok, without knowing what the "certain conditions" are and also assuming the OS was installed without problems and all the updates are installed and then we have to factor in that you have been mix matching memory to no end, making BIOS changes, underclocking\overclocking, and then the memory is mix matched 1G+2G to make 3G, different brands........with DDR\DDR2 it is always recomended to use memory sticks of the same brand and density in pairs, especially in dual channel mode......ummmmm....I`m finding it difficult to find a benchmark such as a boring but stable stock setting and OS install to then try and trouble shoot from. And, this is only on the hardware end. No idea what you have installed software wise.

[oosik]

LOL....okay.....give a me a bit and I'll paint you a better picture of exactly how I"m set up....

[oosik]

With everything in my sig as is, I have 4GB mushkin @ 5-5-5-18-24 400mhz even though the SPD states 4-4-4-12-2T, not sure why that is, but the BIOS is set to auto.

I've updated drivers numerous times and the majority of Vista updates are installed with the exception of 1 particular IE7 security update that won't install that MS is presently helping with thru numerous emails and still in the progress though it may have to wait.

As of late I moved all my programs from the 250GB hdd to the 500GB hdd and am presently running everything off of it. It froze on me once right after switching everything to that hdd, but not since, so I'm going to test it out a bit further.

I have done multiple ram configurations but have only downclocked the 1GB, in donig so everything, while running slow never froze.

While all the assistance has been awesome, more than I have ever expected, I'm relegated to just reconfiguring the system to it's oem specs, minus switching the c: drive and sending it back. None of this makes any sense to me, as far as I can tell it all points to the MB. Hopefully I get a newer model.