Year old P3 update time

[Jim Baxter]

My HP P3 933Mhz is due.
Should I buy a new machine or up-grade.
I have the following
192Meg pc133
30 gig HD
NVidia TNT2
SB Live Value
Windows ME
I want to mainly use the machine for gaming, ie N4, F1-2001, Nascar Heat and whatever comes along in 2002.
I was using a Thomas TWS2 wheel and pedals.(no software required.
The gameport on the SB Live would not recognize the controller, ie "not connected", so I am now using a SB PCI128.
Any recommendations on more memory, better graphics, better sound?

I am in Orange County California and if possible would like a good, reputable, PC shop suggestion to up-grade me, or build a new machine, as I have never done any computer work.

Thanks

[DrZaius]

Hi Jim, welcome to the PC Mech forums!

That system would be fine for gaming if you added more RAM and got a better video card. I would up the RAM to at least 256MB and get a good GeForce 2/3 or Radeon card. Both upgrades are very simple and I recommend doing them yourself. I also live in Orange County and I buy all my parts from either MWave (http://www.mwave.com) (pickup from City of Industry) or my local PC Club.

Good Video Cards

GeForce 2 Ti or Ultra
GeForce 3
ATI Radeon 7500 or 8500


Hope that helps.

[Jim Baxter]

Thanks DrZaius
Are there any special tricks or pre-cautions that I need to be aware of?
I am thinks of 512 on the mem since it's getting so cheap.
What would be the better Video card GF3 or the ATI Radeon?
How about a sound card up-grade?
I can not make the live value work with a controller connected to the game port.
The PCI128 works fine but seems a little weak in the sound department.
I am thinking a 4 speaker sound system.
Thanks again for the suggestions.

[DrZaius]

Jim,
Are there any special tricks or pre-cautions that I need to be aware of?
Not really, just be careful and take your time. Ask any questions here and we'll be glad to answer.
I am thinks of 512 on the mem since it's getting so cheap.
Check out the memory selector at Crucial (http://www.crucial.com) to make sure you get the right memory for your system.
What would be the better Video card GF3 or the ATI Radeon?
Either card will work great, I myself prefer ATI cards. Here's (http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/vidcards/index.x?pg=1) a good technical comaprison between the two cards. And here (http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q4/011123/index.html) is a review of the Radoen with benchmarks comapred to the GeForce 3. Currently only ATI makes the Radeon cards but there are many companies that make nVidia (GeForce) cards, some good ones include Visiontek, Gainward, and Elsa.
How about a sound card up-grade?
Take a look at the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, it's a great sound card.

Hope that helps.

[Jim Baxter]

Thanks again Dr.
I have never had the cover off of this thing on my own.
I'm off to work in a few so will study some of this information this evening.
Do you have a computer store or are you just an enthusiast.

How about these tids and bits I'm seeing on static electricity and grounding?

I feel confident about the mechanical part of an upgrade, just a little shakey on the electical and setting everything up.

[HAL9000]

If you don't have a grounding strap, simply touch the case before you touch anything inside. This will discharge any static in your body to the case instead of a chip somewhere. Other than that, you'll quickly find out it's not too bad digging around inside.

I pretty well agree with what the Dr Z had to say as far as the upgrades are concerned.

[DrZaius]

Do you have a computer store or are you just an enthusiast.
I'm just an enthusiast. :p

I've always just done what HAL said, touched the metal case before touching any components, and I've never had any problems with static.

[Orcmonkey]

I'd buy a geforce 3 over any radeon, but thats just me.

[Jim Baxter]

Thanks again for all the inputs and advice guys.
A little more input from the various manufactures regarding comparability issues and current drivers for my system, a bottle of nerve pills, and I'm off to the bomb shelter.

I may have a computer for sale soon.

Stay tuned :cool:

[Colonel Sanders]

as xayd told me, just don't result to todlerism, try to touch only the edges of your cards, unless you can clearly see that there are no wires on that section of PCB(printed Circut board, I thought I'd never type that when I was a new member....). Just to calm your nervers, I think I have accidentally touched sensitive areas of my motherboard before maybe that is what is giveine me all my problems.... Nothing breaks like windows.

Logan

[Jim Baxter]

Wow- this may be fun (if it works)

A couple more concearns and Im ready to go shopping.

1)On the memory - I have 192 meg PC133 SDram (2Dimm)I assume 2 chips, 1 at 128 and 1 at 64 meg.
To get to 512 I think I will need to start over and get 2 ea 256 k chips.

2)Should I un-install the sound card and graphics card files before starting the dis-assembly process and then install the new software after installation.

3)Should I install one item at a time, re-boot and install software, or do it all one time.

4)Am I asking the right questions?

Thanks

[DrZaius]

Hi Jim

On the memory - I have 192 meg PC133 SDram (2Dimm)I assume 2 chips, 1 at 128 and 1 at 64 meg. To get to 512 I think I will need to start over and get 2 ea 256 k chips.
This depends on how many RAM slots you have. If you only have two, then yes you'll need to get two 256MB sticks.
Should I un-install the sound card and graphics card files before starting the dis-assembly process and then install the new software after installation.
Yes, remove the video and sound card from Device Manger first and then physically remove the cards.
Should I install one item at a time, re-boot and install software, or do it all one time.
Yes, that way if there are any problems you know what caused it.

Remove video and sound card from Device Manager, shutdown
Install memory and reboot, see if it worked, then shutdown
Install video card and reboot, install drivers, shutdown
Install sound card and reboot, install drivers

Am I asking the right questions?
Yes. :p

Hope that helps.

[Xayd]

512 is a bit of overkill IMHO. Unless you're doing other stuff besides games that could use that much (CAD, Photoshop, etc.), then just max out what you have available without replacing anything.

If your board can take a 256 meg stick, just get a single 256 and then you'll be over 400, which is plenty for any game.

[Jim Baxter]

Well guys, thanks to your suggestions, I have a vision.

Get a GForce2 64 meg
Turtle Beach Santa barbra
pull the 64 meg mem chip and add another 128 to end up with 256

Another suggestion has been made.

Convert from Windows ME to XP.

For home use and primarily gaming use, which version would be best.

Is doing this much conversion worth the expense as opposed to having a new
machine configured??

Thanks again

Jim

[mc2phat]

Is your machine worth the expense? IMO yes, a 933 PIII is still a lot of processor. Bumping your RAM up is always a good idea, and it's so cheap, now's the time to do it. As far as upgrading to XP, my advice to you would be to stick with ME if it does what you need it to do and isn't causing problems. My wife/daughter run games on K6-2/K6-3 450 processors and they do O.K.

[DrZaius]

Hi Jim,

The hardware specs look good. What type of specific GeForce2 card are you looking at (MX, MX400, Ultra, GTS)?

As for going with XP, I myself like it very much and play games fine with it, but if ME isn't causing any problems then I wouldn't spend the extra money, just stick with it.

[Jim Baxter]

DrZaius,

I see that there a few NvidiaGF2 cards out there.

Based on my system specs, which would you recommend?

I am looking for quality components.

Also, you suggested the TurtleBeach card. Does it support 4 speakers, and or
surround sound.

Were getting closer.

Thanks

[DrZaius]

Hi Jim,

Here are all the GeForce2 chips in order of performence (best to worst):

GeForce2 Ultra
GeForce2 Ti
GeForce2 Pro
GeForce2 GTS
GeForce2
GeForce2 MX400
GeForce2 MX
GeForce2 MX200

Based on my system specs, which would you recommend?
Your best choice would be the Ti or Ultra card.
Also, you suggested the TurtleBeach card. Does it support 4 speakers, and or surround sound.
It supports 2, 4 or 6-Speaker digital Surround Sound. More info is on the site (http://www.voyetra-turtle-beach.com/site/products/santacru/).

Hope that helps.

[Jim Baxter]

Thanks everyone.
You have been a tremendous amount of help and made this venture a lot easier for
me.
Now all I gotta do is gather up the toys and head for the high board.

Perhaps this weekend.

[Colonel Sanders]

Even though Hal suggest less thatn 512, I think it would be a good idea to get a 256 stick for 348MB(assuming you have a 128 stick). Have you considered a Radeon card? I think one use here claims they produce better picture quality, but slightly lower FPS. However, you shouldn't see the difference in FPS. Just want to help you get exactly what you want... Stay away from Matrox cards for gameing.

Logan

[Jim Baxter]

Well thanks to all of your help I am about to get my order going for my
components.
Last question, (I promise)
On the issue of memory, I have decided to go with 2 256mb pc133 SDRAM.
Is there a particular brand to get or even more important, to avoid?

What is the difference in the crucial 356MB 32x64 PC133 SDRAM CL=3 and
CL=2.0?

Thanks again for the help

Jim:)

[mc2phat]

Hello Jim,

Here is your answer, straight from www.crucial.com FAQs:

"What is CAS Latency?

Solution:

CAS Latency (also referred to as latency) is the amount of time it takes for your memory to respond to a command. Specifically, it is the length of time between memory receiving a command to read data, and the first piece of data being output from memory. Latency is measured in terms of clock cycles and is often noted as CL2 (two clock cycles) or CL3 (three clock cycles)."





"CL2 parts process data a little quicker than CL3 parts in that you have to wait one less clock cycle for the initial data. However, after the first piece of data is processed, the rest of the data is processed at equal speeds. Latency only affects the initial burst of data. Once data starts flowing, there is no effect. Bear in mind, a clock cycle for a PC100 module is 10 nanoseconds so you probably won't notice a significant performance difference. Most systems will accept either latency part. However, there are some systems that require either CL2 or CL3 parts. These requirements are built into our Memory Selector."

I will recommend you buy your RAm from Crucial. Free Fedex 2nd day shipping, and let me tell you, they mean 2nd day. I ordered several sticks of RAM from the website yesterday at about 10:00 AM CST, my RAM got here TODAY about an hour ago. Great quality RAM, good prices.

If you don't want Crucial (Micron) RAM, I'd go with Mushkin, Kingston, or Corsair brand.

Regads,
-phfat

[Jim Baxter]

Happy New Year to all of you.

Thanks for all the help you have provided, the links, and positive feedback I have received, I ordered and received;
1 ea Leadtek G3 TI200 64MB AGP Graphic card.
2 ea 256MB PCI33 SDRAM cards
1 ea Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card

Installed

Results: Amazing!

What a difference. The Turtle Beach card really rocks.

Now for that 6 Speaker system.

Thanks again :) :D :cool: ;) :)

[Orcmonkey]

Awesome! Sounds like a screamer, have fun! :D

[Carl Price]

Someone mentioned NVidia. Reminds me, their stock price has almost tripled since 9/21/01. Forgive me if you're not into such things.

[mike breck]

Excellent post guys.

Just goes to show you don't need a 1200mhz+ Athlon or P4 to run the current crop of games.

Jim - that arrangement should keep you gaming for the next year, at least.