freeze up

[cawillydoc]

I was working on a TriGem 2001 computer a few weeks ago and now I am having the following problems: While online, I am constantly getting kicked off the internet. While playing solitare or backgammon, the computer freezes up. The clock is also loosing about two minutes to about an hour on the clock. I changed the operating system from Windows 95 to Windows 98se a few weeks ago and added a second hard drive. I had a problem with the fan over the CPU not running and had to plug the power into the white plug instead of the motherboard. When I did this, the fan worked. I am not sure if I unplugged the wire from the motherboard. Here is the information on that comes up when the computer is turned up. American Megatrends 51-3109-001214-00011111-101094-sis551x-h. Can anybody help with these problems.

[highrisemech]

If the fan was not running on the cpu there may me heat related damage to it causing your lock up.

[DDeRek]

The failure of the clock to keep accurate time makes me think the battery for the BIOS is going flat on you. How old is this system?

[cawillydoc]

The CMOS battery option definately seems to be my main culprit. I have been attempting to find the motherboard schematic for it for the last few weeks to locate where might be. As the computer is now in Arizona and I am in California, it makes just opening up the side and searching to be more difficult. As for the age of the computer, it is about five to seven years old.

[GaryRouth]

Hi cawillydoc

It'd be great if it's just the CMOS battery. They're usually easy to spot.
Usually little round disc the size of a dime. Great thing is, they only
cost a dollar.

If it's not your battery, there are a few other things to check.
Highrisemech mentioned the cpu: you could always pop in another one, if
you have another that matches (otherwise you'll have to change jumpers,
& check if your board supports it)

I'd also double check your hard drive settings. When you added the new
drive, it was probably the newer Ultra-100? If it's anything over Ultra-33,
you need to check if your motherboard supports it. If your board doesn't,
you'll need to run a utility from the drive's manufacturer to set the transfer
rates back to Ultra-33 (or to whatever your board supports...it's possible
your board is so old it doesn't do Ultra-33 either, in which case you'll have
to slow the transfer rate all the way back to 16 [16MB-per-second]) ...Also,
use the newer 80wire cable with an Ultra66 or Ultra100 drive.

I don't remember what sort of modem your TriGem has. . .if it's a PCtel
winmodem, I know that the driver you use makes a lot of difference. You
can get the latest drivers for whatever modem you have from the manufacturer's
website. Try to match your model as closely as you can...The drivers should
come with some instructions, but if not, remember to remove your old drivers
before trying new ones (uninstall, preferably). ...And the PCtel serial
wave device drivers seem to cause nothing but trouble: if you're not using
the voice function of your modem (using it for an answering machine, for
example) you can go into the MultiMedia control panel applet, and under
Devices, then Audio Devices, check the box next to "do not use audio features
on this device", and check the box next to "Do not map through this device".
(The wave device drivers for PCtel tend to be a problem with the sound in
games)

And is the power supply in the TriGem have a brand name on it? (Hopefully
it's not a Deer)...

This should keep you busy when you get back to Arizona
...Gary

[cawillydoc]

I'll check all of the above and the modem is a Viking 54k driverless.

[GaryRouth]

Hi cawillydoc

Just a quick note tonight, it's getting late:
I'm still not sure which chip the Viking you have
uses. If you can find the exact name, model number,
or an FCC number on it, that will help get an exact ID
on the thing. Looks like the lads at driverguide.com
have quite a few drivers for these modems. The Viking
components website doesn't mention much except for their
notebook card modems. On driverguide, I noticed that
Viking had modems of many kinds...(internal, external,
Rockwell, Lucent, PCtel...you name it...even a USB model)

Good Luck & Good Night!
I'll check back sometime tomorrow . . .
...Gary

[cawillydoc]

The modem is only about one year old as the owner of the computer had it replaced. It doesn't require a driver and anything that it needs was already installed. I have had him open the box and reseat everything and nothing was loose or out of place.

[highrisemech]

All modems require some sort of driver.
I run a Viking, it does have drivers.

[cawillydoc]

OK, I admit it, it has drivers. The paperwork say "Viking 56k driverless modem" but there are floppys that have some sort of driver. When the computer was here at my house, it ran great. My brother transported it back to Tucson, Az from California and it worked fine for at least a few days. I used the computer, on and offline, for several days, until he got back out here to get his computer. The only problem that I had was the fan not working over the CPU. That fixed, I didn't have anymore trouble.

[highrisemech]

Ok. Is the computer still locking?
If so how did you fix the fan?
The reason why I ask is because fixing the fan on the cpu usually requires
removing the heatsink, once this is remove you may have to clean off the cpu and heatsink and use a good thermal grease to get a good transfer of heat to the heatsink
If your cpu runs hot, this will cause system lock up.
If you can in the bios set up you can read what temperature the cpu is running at, so if possible check the temp.

[cawillydoc]

Yes the computer is still freezing up and nothing that was done has stopped the problems. The temp, in BIOS, we are not able to locate. I was unaware of the thermal grease, which must be the white, sticky stuff? As for the fan, I fixed the problem by plugging in the white 4 pin power connector, where before power was attached to the motherboard. One possibility was that I did not disconnect the wire on the motherboard. I am still waiting to hear if my brother has disconnected it and if that helps anything. I was wondering if that still being connected and the other one being connected at the same time, if maybe power to the fan was pulling too much power and causing other problems?

[highrisemech]

Well if it were me i would check to insure that you are getting a good heat transfer to the cpu and if the problem still existed after doing this I would try it with another power supply. a good thermal grease to use is Arctic silver.

[cawillydoc]

Can anyone explain how I ensure a good heat transfer?

[Cricket]

Hi cawillydoc,

The CPU generates a lot of heat when in use and this heat must be removed so that the CPU can continue to work properly. This is usually accomplished by the use of a heatsink/fan unit. The heatsink helps to remove the heat from the CPU by providing more surface area for the heat to dissipate from (all the fins increase the surface area of the heatsink). Having a fan on the heatsink speeds up this process.

The bottom surface of the heatsink and the CPU core are not perfectly flat and heatsink compound (such as Artic Silver II) is used to fill in small imperfections in the surfaces. That way, the actual contact area between the CPU core and heatsink is increased (Artic Silver II fills in the small imperfections so that there is less air gaps when the two surfaces contact). And Artic Silver II contains silver, which is a very good heat conductor, so the heat transfer is improved.

:) Cricket

[cawillydoc]

Thanks Cricket, that is what I thought it meant. I didn't apply any new thermal grease when I put the computer back together because I never did remove the CPU or heatsink. The fan I did remove only long enough to try another fan, but that was it.

[GaryRouth]

Hi cawillydoc

Lots of interesting posts about possible heat buildup, but
since your system is a fairly cool running low-speed first
generation Pentium, it would probably run fine even with just
a big heatsink (but I wouldn't try it: active cooling with a fan
is necessary for most cases)... but all the latest suggestions
are worth trying (and thermal grease is only a few dollars).

I'm curious about your BIOS settings. Most of the SiS boards that
I've worked on have had a section in the BIOS that is labelled
"CPU AutoDetect"...or something like that. Poke around in there
and see if you can find such an option on one of the BIOS menus.
If a power surge knocked out some of your settings, it's possible
that you might be accidentally overclocking . . .and overheating
. . .and voila, locking up. (My sister's SiS 530 box was constantly
getting whacked by surges, and the Cpu setting kept jumping up an exta
80 to 100mhz ...just enough to cause some strange behavior...a good surge
surpressor stopped all that) . . . Seems that the auto-detect in the
Bios isn't always very accurate (you can set things right manually with
"User Define")

As far as the modem goes (and it might just be suffering along with
the rest of your system from whatever else is wrong): in addition to
checking that the drivers are OK, you could also make sure that the
"call waiting" feature of the phone line is being disabled when dialing
in to the Internet Provider (usually in the setup modem devices screen,
you have the option to add the disable code *70,etc)

And I'd check the IDE cabling & jumpers & UDMA settings just to make
sure it's all harmonious . . . when those timings get off, ...ouch.

Did the system run OK for quite a while after adding the 2nd drive?

...here it is, late night again: hope you have good luck with your
TriGem soon
...Gary (I'll check back again tomorrow)

[GaryRouth]

One last thing (just remembered while falling asleep!)

...did you get/try a new CMOS (or motherboard) battery yet?
They are $1.25 at your local hardware store. You'll keep losing
your Bios settings if the battery's failing. (eventually the
system won't boot)

With the power off, take the battery out...you can bring it with
you to the computer hardware store & get an exact match. They pop
in with nothing fancier than fingers.

Good night again,
...Gary

[cawillydoc]

To answer the question about the battery for the CMOS, no I have not replaced it yet. Unfortunately, the computer is in Tucson and I am in Hemet, Ca. I am attempting to relay all of the information to my brother and he is slowly trying to work on the problem. I think I am going to send him my backup computer, and when he gets it, he can send me back his and then I will take it from there. I don't remember seeing the disk type battery. I am almost absolutely sure that it is the barrel type.
Can you remind me please, how to check the BIOS? What exactly am I looking for?

[DDeRek]

I've never seen any "barrel type" BIOS batteries and I've worked on some pretty old systems. Press either F1 or delete, depending on the BIOS manufacturer, after you POST, but before you boot, will take you into BIOS setup, but get a new battery in first.

[cawillydoc]

I can't be sure of the barrel type on this motherboard, but I just don't remember seeing the disk. I have seen several of those and I can't remember seeing one on this particular motherboard.
When you say after I POST but before I boot, are you saying when I turn the computer on, the first screen and before the Windows 98 screen?

[DDeRek]

Yes, when you turn the computer on you usually see some system information and the memory count, are you familiar with that?(if not you haven't been at this long enough) There is usually a message below all that (sometimes only for a moment, so you have to look sharp!) instructing you what keys are pressed to access the BIOS setup. It can actually be several combinations, I looked it up in Scott Muellers "Upgrading and Repairing PCs" to refresh my memory and it can be some of the function keys, a combination of ctrl+alt+(S,C,B), or delete depending on who made your BIOS, AMI, Award, Phoenix, or Microid. This is real basic BIOS and I could write a book trying to explain the functions in the BIOS setup. If you really want to know about it I suggest you check out Mr. Muellers book or one by Mark Minasi: The Upgrade and Maintenance guide. BIOS is the marrow and the glue of a computer system and if you really want to understand how a computer system works you should start here.

[cawillydoc]

Yes that is what I thought. I have and learned with Minasi Upgrade and Maintenance Guide 12th Edition. I am still new at this. I got it, the function for this computer described in these posts, is Delete. Thanks for the information.

[GaryRouth]

Hi cawillydoc

I'll keep checking back to see how the PC is doing,
let us know when either you get to Tucson or the PC
gets to Hemet.

(My late uncle Jim wrote a newspaper column for the
local Hemet rag . . . quiet little desert town, or used
to be.)

...Gary

(come to think of it, those are both desert towns...but I
wouldn't call Tucson all that quiet)

[cawillydoc]

Yes Hemet is a desert town, but compared to Tucson, it is a subtropical rainforest. I grew up in Tucson and it was good thing that I liked airplanes, because most of my life I lived right across the street from the Air Force's largest aircraft storage yard. Other than that, I didn't really have much else to do in the Arizona heat.

I found a place in Riverside, CA that has almost all of the things that I need to fix the three old computers I happen to have, and the costs are extremely low. Here is their web address: http://www.netseller.com

[GaryRouth]

Hi cawillydoc

I took a look at netseller. Nice prices. The great thing about shops like
Netseller are that if you live close enough, you can buy things for the web
price, and then save the shipping cost if you live close enough to drive over
and pick them up. Really nice for heavy stuff like monitors and cases.

Are all your three oldies TriGems? I thought they were mostly sold in
Great Britain.

I'll be glancing back now & then during the holidays: Hope yours are nice.

...Gary

[cawillydoc]

My computers besides the one that I am using now are: Packard Bell 486, Packard Bell 600 and the Trigem 2001 that my brother owns. The 600 and the TriGem both work but only the 600 is fully functional. More on the 486 soon, right after I make it to Netseller and buy the parts it needs.

[GaryRouth]

Hi cawillydoc

Just checking in. I had some spare time today while waiting for my mainframes
to behave themselves, and I noticed that you had a post over in Peripherals on
the sound card for your PB 600. Since it's been a few days since, did it work
out OK? Sounds to me like your little white connector was the NEC type and the
black is the larger, more common connector (though I don't remember the name).
morriswindgate guided you in the right direction, those connectors let you do
things like play music CDs and connect between sound cards and CD drives.

Some of those old Packard Bells have lots of strange equipment, like the
Sound 144, which is a modem/sound card combo. Wild. And do you have the
Packard Bell Navigator running on them? Or "WorkSpace" and "KidSpace"?
Whooeeee. A good way to speed up an old, badly behaving Packard Bell is
to get rid of Packard Bell Navigator, Workspace, and Kidspace (the old hard
drive will thank you for it) and things will run faster without all those
Packard Bell handydandys running in the background.

Sorry to be somewhat off-topic
Happy holidays (only the snow should freeze, not our PCs)
...Gary

[cawillydoc]

Yes the information on the sound card for the PB 600 worked and that computer is now working just fine thank you. What and how do I check for the Navigator, Kidspace and whatever the other thing is? I did install Windows 98se on that computer and it seems to run ok so far. I only run it to play video games with my son. Even at that, it doesn't run that often.

[GaryRouth]

Hi cawillydoc

I might be here all night waiting for my billing routines to finish...
so...(here I am typing away again)

If you were running the Packard Bell Navigator, or WorkSpace, or KidSpace,
you'd know. Remember Microsoft Bob? It was a desktop where you would
start programs by pointing to things in a room. Very cartoonish. The
Packard Bell Navigator was a similiar idea, although with a fairly stylish
finish to it. It looked like a cutaway view of a house, and you would go
to the room that matched what you wanted to do. Go to the study, for
example, and then click on a pen-and-paper on a desk to start up a word
processor. Go to a living room, and click on a stereo to start a music
player! Sound like a lot of computing overhead? Yep. At least it wasn't
as annoying as MS Bob. Well, sometimes it was.

KidSpace and WorkSpace were similiar. And most Packard Bells from that "era"
(PC 'eras' come and go quickly, don't they?) had ALL THREE of these Windowing
programs on top of Windows 3.11...then Win95....Smokes, one PB I worked on
had parts of Win3.11, Win95, PB Navigator, KidSpace, and WorkSpace all running
at the same time...before you started to do anything (and DOS under the whole kaboodle). The problem with all these layers upon layers (besides making everything run slooooowly) was that they were rather fixed in time (not constantly updated), so that when you added new programs, incompatibilities crept in. After a while, crash city. It would have taken a large army of
programmers to patch all that.

I'll stop typing now, so everyone can rest their eyes.
...
Let me know when your CMOS battery replacement try happens (for the TriGem).
...Gary

[cawillydoc]

The answer is no, I do not have any of that Kidspace or Navigator. When I got the computer it was in pieces and didn't have a hard drive. After I got it all back together and loaded the hard drive and the operating system, there wasn't much chance of any of those items being in there.
As for the TriGem, I am going to purchase the items and build my own computer, then send him that one, and have him send the TriGem. Whatever I put out, plus the old computer isn't too bad of a deal. I have never bought everything and built one from scratch, so stay tuned, I will definately be asking more questions, REAL SOON. With that said, I bid all farewell until I pry my eyes open at 8:30 in the morning. Isn't Christmas just a wonderful time?






Remember, it isn't Santa Claus who has to pay for the presents. It is us LUNATIC parents.