Quiet Cooling!??

[ljmoray]

OK, I've built up several systems and have always been very uptight about adequate cooling. Probably I've been overly compulsive, and have just accepted the noise!

Now I've got two systems that are multimedia systems and are just plain noisy!

Can anyone recommend super cooling techniques that are also QUIET??!

THANKS

[DrZaius]

Watercooling is about as quiet as it gets, just do a search on Google.

[systempat]

Yeah it works fine if you want your PC sitting next to a sink. And you better hope you never get a leak inside your system case.
IF you want it quieter don't overclock. Then you won't need 3 fans and a screamer on the heatsink.

[ljmoray]

I agree, I'd rather not go the water route. Actually it's not overclocked, just 4 10K SCSI drives in a RAID array and dual PIII Slot 1 processors, and I want to be sure everything stays real cool, so I've got lot's of fans.

Also, I've got a couple of other boxes with large destination monitors that have TV tuner cards and DVD drives. The noise of the cooling isn't bad, but it'll be nicer with less during movies!

I'm hoping someone can recommend some good effecient QUIET fans and hard drive coolers!

THANKS!

[systempat]

I was just guessing about your system setup as you didn't post it.:D
P3s don't run all that hot. Maybe you're overdoing it a little on the fans. What all do you have running in fans? And what are your readings for temps. Are the SCSI drives hotter than a 7200 IDE drive would be? As long as there is at least some air space between the drives they should be OK. That kind of equipment is usually designed to handle temps up to at least 120. If the air temp inside the case is staying down in the 85 area the air motion and convection should take care of it. You probably want to organize the cables and connectors so the drives are not isolated behind a 'wall' of ribbon cable. I haven't tried this but the type of cables that have been rounded would have advantages for airflow.

[ljmoray]

These are 10K rpm SCSI drives and yes they do get quite hot, how hot I don't really know, but I've always been told heat is a problem with SCSI drives!

I'm using rounded cables, but there's alot in the case. I haven't done the experiment, but I put both sides on the case and went to bed, when I got up the next morning, the computer had shut down, so I assumed it was the heat.

The other boxes are more important as I'd like to create a really quite machine that doesn't interfer with movies and watching TV! :)

[Toaster]

Howdy,
Anyone having 4 10K SCSI drives is going to have a heat problem in many off the shelf cases. Most user cases are designed with EIDE drives in mind. Heat kills any component, not just SCSI. I had a similar problem and went an external SCSI case.
The case for the drives is mounted out of earshot.
You didn't specify which drives you have but I suggest either IBM or Fujitsu.
It really doen't matter because 4 drives are goinf to create a fair amount of heat regardless of make. The standrd drive bays in many cases are poorly cooled and barely adaquate for EIDE devices let alone screaming SCSI drives.
A remote drive enclosure would probably be your best bet. Doing this the system itself requires less cooling and thus can be quieter by requiring fewer fans.
There are low noise fans available and the simple yet less accurate method of detirmining noise is current draw. Quieter fans use somewhere around .15amps. The higher the current, the faster the drive might spin.
Fan pitch also impacts efficiency and noise but thewre is no set rule to follow.

[ljmoray]

These are 4 72 Gig Seagate Cheetah's with 16MB cache in a 0+1 RAID ARRAY. I'm looking into external SCSI cases, not cheap, but money hasn't deterred me too much yet! :)

Any recommendations on external cases??

[Toaster]

Howdy,
You may not need a "special" drive case. I have used older AT cases that I modified for use as a drive case.
Desktop cases worked best for me because an extra fan can be mounted where the I/O slots would be.
The only problem you might confront is cabling that is U160 compliant.
Aside from this, the "SUN" "911" case is a fantastic case for such uses and are available via Ebay and the like.
Another problem might be that your drives are 1.6" high as many cases "assume" 1" hight drives.
The drives will be the noisiest of the system components and needed cabling needs to be long and of the highest quality.
Again, for your installation, multiple cables may be required.
Assuming RAID 1+0, and a multi channel adaptor, you may need 1-3 cables.
Regardless, an external encosure will do the trick.
Remember to keep the drive orientation consistant with the way they have been running. Drives of the 10K variant tend to have high heat bearings and asking them to wear in a different fashion may add noise and premature wear.
Keep the drive PCB at least 1" from any surface for best cooling.
Most SCSI drives run coolest when mounted on either side instead of PCB down.
Pay special attention to termination as SE termination will force the drive into SE mode reducing data rates.
While SCSI supports "disconnect", other SE devices may ask for more time then the HA will allow for LVD drives thus forcing SE modes of operation.
I like to use multiple adaptors and often remove or disable the BIOS on the other HA's and let the host O/S provide drives. This allows the LVD drive(s) to work at their native rates and SE drives at theirs.
The result is a drive array thats more efficient which results in a clean multitasking environment.

[systempat]

Well, you're beyond me on the system with the SCSI array in it. I will leave that to you and Toaster.
What are you running on the other boxes that you want to run the TVs from?

[ljmoray]

Well, the one is water cooled in a Lian-Li case. I think the pump is going on the water unit as it periodically sounds a bit loud and congested! :)

The other is also Lian-Li case, and I've figured most of the noise is from the cpu fans. (this is a dual PIII socket 370 with peltiers). So I'm gonna swap out the peltier/heat sink/fan assembly. I'll put that in a system that really needs it!

So I guess if someone could recommend some real effecient and quiet PIII socket 370 coolers, that'd be great!!!

All my life I've had trouble with over heating, mostly my first few cars! So I really tend to over-do the cooling! :)

Thanks!

[Toaster]

Howdy,
One thing to keep in mind is that peltiers create a fair amount of heat.
I don't use peltiers because they simply arn't needed and they have other fallbacks. I use air cooling even on grossly overclocked systems.
Not once could I see benifit from a peltier.
Also, peltiers tend to consume great deals of current making your P/S work overtime and thus create even more heat.
A good quality fan/heatsink is all thats necessary.
It is quite possible to create more heat then cooling.
Another place to look is the system case vents. If these are blocked or restricted all the fans in the world will simply blow the hot air about.
Intake vents should be at least 2X the size of the combined exhaust fans area.
Remember, working "with" mother nature is always better then trying to overwhelm her efforts.

[ljmoray]

OK, so I'll scrap the Peltiers! How's about a quiet, effecicent heat sink/fan assembly; ANy recommendations??

Larry

[Toaster]

Howdy,
Good fan/heatsinks are out there is great numbers.
Luckily, the PIII doesn't need anything fancy.
As far as noise, the amount of noise is minimal as long as fan speeds stay below 7200 RPM.
I have great cooling performance with Intel heatsink/fans.
The larger fans on recent PIIIs are more then adaquate. Otherwise, the generic AMD socket 1 fans are fine.
A whole case cooling approach is whats really needed.
Get the cool air in and the hot air out quickly and the rest falls into place.
Now, I use Intel based boards and thus the CPU "loading" may be different on non-Intel based boards. My "bastardized" CeleronII-667 is zipping along at 1.33GHZ with standard Intel cooling even at 1.90 volts.
I also have a dualie PIII-700 system at 1100MHZ with standard cooling.
This system uses 6 4.5GB 7200rpm U/W drives in a RAID 1+0 config with standard cooling.
Noise is somewhat high but the system is well out of earshot.
This system uses 2 exhaust fans and a case mod for a 6" intake fan that blowes from the floor of the case into the interior.
Its biggest noise is when spinning up and then quiets down during normal ops.
In my case, the larger fan slightly pressurizes the case and boosts the exhaust fans including the P/S fan. This case is a modified Gateway full ATX "like" tower with 6 internal 3 1/2" bays. A great case if found with minimal mode to use with modern boards.

[ljmoray]

OK, so I'll chill on the over-cooled CPU's and make sure the case is cool! It really is as I tend to overdo the fans and such!

While we're on it, what's your feeling about hard drive coolers?? Back to the 10K SCSI drives that get hot, there seem to be a ton of different coolers out there. Different number of fans, some with fans on the under(PCB)side of the drive, some with aluminum heatsinks!

So many choices, just wondering what kinda experience people have had, what other folks might recommend for maximum cooling?!

THANKS!

[Toaster]

Howdy again,
I don't really believe in HDD "coolers".
I never thought they were necessary because if the drives ran too warm there were other reasons and those "coolers" were nothing more then a "patch" or band-aid.
Recent SCSI drives run cooler then early units and the addition of drive coolers shouldn't be necessary.
Aside from this, more noise.
So long as there is 1/2" of space on the PCB side of the drive and good airflow, passive cooling is all thats needed.
External cases offer the best cooling, can be placed out of ear shot and most are either "stackable" or can be daisey chained.
As I said in an earlier post, typical PC cases have poor cooling near the drive bays, especially for faster SCSI drives.
Were I given the chance, I'd opt for an external case for drives, use standard air cooling for the CPUs, open the existing vents and maybe have an additional exhaust fan and call it good.
Route SCSI cabling to the external drives mounted in a remote location out of ear shot.
Some cases vent from the bottom and setting the case on a carpeted surfuce can block these vents. Check for this and slightly "kick-up" the front of the case to permit better airflow.
Make certain the P/S fan is working correctly and if not, replace the P/S or fan. More efficient fans are made by panasonic (panaflow) and Sunin.
Problem being is these fans tend to be a bit on the noisey side.