GeForce 4 / Doom III / Quake IV

[fred]

Just asking for opinions here...
I have heard that the tiny problem with the GeForce 4 (Ti 4600) is that it is so fast that there is no game available that can tax it. Next possible is the DOOM III (Oh! Dribble, dribble.) Anyone heard any different? Course Quake IV too because that is rumoured to use the Doom III engine. And the final question is, do we all run out and buy a GeForce 4 in anticipation??? ( I get excited when you talk about a new ID release! Ha ha).

[mike breck]

Hi Fred,

Good question.

My opinion is that currently there is no developer taking full advantage of all the features of the Geoforce 3 so it's highly unlikely that Carmack (no matter what id says) is going to fully utilise a Geoforce 4 even with the new Doom 111 engine.

If the engine's good enough (which it should be) then the games should run well with GF3 or even a GF2.

I shall be upgrading to a GF3 when the prices come down and I get a bargain. In the meantime, everything I throw at a T/bird 1200 with a 64MB GF2mx works well. So I don't need a GF3 at the moment.

[Colonel Sanders]

Agreed, UT claims you can run it on a 200MHz PC. UT on a 200MHz PC?!? How slow would that be? Anyways, it seems game makes still design for the ancient 1-year-old PCs.

Logan

[hypnos_ric]

There's always software to tax your hardware. I do 3D modelling for example and no mater what 3D card you have, there's always a scene which your video card will struggle with (when moving around it in real-time) etc. As for games, well the Geforce 4 is gonna blow todays games away! It's a 100% speed increase over the Geforce2!

Probably cost 100% more too :D

[mike breck]

You're missing my point.

Of course you can find sofware to tax any graphics card. If you are into CAD or video editing then a beefy card is very important.

However, as far as gaming is concerned, graphics cards have been improving so quickly that most developers have not managed to take advantage of all the existing features of a card before it become obsolete and new features appeared on the next card. The developers are struggling to keep up.

Does that bode well for good game design? I think not.

A few years ago the games were taxing the graphics cards - now the Geoforce 3 is sitting there asking the game "Is that all you've got? Hit me harder you wimp!".

Also, game speed and performance isn't all down to using a faster card. A well- designed game with a good engine will perform well on lower spec cards. It's all down to how well the developers do their job.

I think some developers have got lazy on relying on more powerful, faster cards to bail them out of trouble, rather than good design in the first place.

An good analogy, is the humble PlayStation 1. Any improvements in games had to be initiated through good and creative programming rather than relying on increasing the power and capacity of the hardware. These guys really had to work for their money. Metal Gear Solid was the towering example of what could be done with fixed hardware resources and creative programming. While not awesome by PC standards, it was a crowning achievement for the PlayStation and lesson to games developers.

The UT engine is a prime example of an excellent game engine (and in my opinion) followed closely by Lithtech. These engines are so good that most games built on them can perform very well on older P2s without cutting all the graphics options back to zero.

In my opinion, there is no point in having the fastest and most feature-packed graphics card in the world, if games don't even utilise one half of it's attributes.

Apart from being able to say "mine is bigger than yours".

[DrZaius]

Relating to the GeForce 4 and Doom III, here's an interesting quote from John Carmack (his latest .plan), lead programmer for id Software.

On the topic of current Nvidia cards:

Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom.

Nvidia has really made a mess of the naming conventions here. I always thought it was bad enough that GF2 was just a speed bumped GF1, while GF3 had significant architectural improvements over GF2. I expected GF4 to be the speed bumped GF3, but calling the NV17 GF4-MX really sucks.

GF4-MX will still run Doom properly, but it will be using the NV10 codepath with only two texture units and no vertex shaders. A GF3 or 8500 will be much better performers. The GF4-MX may still be the card of choice for many people depending on pricing, especially considering that many games won't use four textures and vertex programs, but damn, I wish they had named it something else.

As usual, there will be better cards available from both Nvidia and ATI by the time we ship the game.
Just an iteresting bit of info.

[mike breck]

"If you want to drive to work, you need a Porche. Of course, the speed limit on the route is 30 mph and there's lots of potholes - but you're still better with a Porche. Why? Because it idles better at intersections."

(Cynical Gamer)

If I were a cynic, I might think developers and graphic card manufacturers were in cahoots to wring more money out of a gullible public....

[lovitz]

Doom 3 is coming out? Quake IV too??

AWESOME!

[fred]

Yes, Lovitz, it is awesome. Without reading the background, I guess Doom is a more like the original for the solo player and Quake IV is more you net based shoot 'em up. I will buy both! I can't wait.

DrZaius, that's extremely interesting and kills the GeForce 4 immediately for me! My interest level drops to zero.

I run a GeForce II GTS and GeForce III DDR on otherwise identical PC's and believe me, you would be extremely hard pushed to tell which one is which. The GeForce IV may be faster but since nothing is using all that power I might give it a miss. Especially since his mightiness Carmack has spoken out against it!

Anyway, that anticipation for the GeForce IV has gone - but still remains for the release of Doom III, then Quake IV!

I notice that the GeForce IV has appeared at my local shop. Well, not in person , but there's a nice fat price tag all filled out, waiting for a box to stick it on. Hmm! This is good news really, it means that the price of the GeForce III Ti's will be coming down! Means that it's bargain time people! Maybe I will buy a III Ti to replace the II GTS?? Sounds a better buy that a IV right now.

[fred]

GRIEF! I just noticed that Creative are releasing a 128MB card! Thats fairly useless then. I mean I wonder how many Mobo's support that? And who needs it anyway? Hmm!
By the way, I went away to look up the specs for my ASUS V8200 III DDR and the thing is faster than an ASUS V8200 III Ti500 DDR???????? WOT? Help me out someone! Tell me the Ti is faster!!