I'll tell you why Linux doesn't bloody crash so often!!!

[Joe Auman]

I think I can also put down Linux, but not quite as much as copyright did. Here, visit <a href="http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000353.html">this site.</a> That story is my pure reason for posting here.

Well, I did fit the description of who would get Linux. And I do agree that finding some programs for Linux is hard, but you have to look at the other side of the coin. We have to admit it, Linux users are a rare breed. Their are few of us, but it seems to me we're growing. Most software found in a store is for Windows for the simple reason almost all the world uses WIndows. Since it was ever packaged with a new computer, Windows dominated the market. But finding free software over the internet is a nice thing, only if I could get on the internet with Linux (don't you just love win modems?). If your wondering about hardware, think of it this way. Most hardware bought and sold today is desinged for, guess what, Windows. AND Windows will support most of this hardware, which let any other OS up to them to produce drivers/servers for them. This is why installing Linux is incredibly hard, for the most part (well, at least for a newbie). Installing and software is also hard, like video drivers for me. Windows: Donload program, run it, restart, done. Linux: Download 18Mb folder, install one rpm package, rebuild another, install another, edit the XF86Config file to include the new supported hardware, redirect the symbolic X link, and then manage to restart and have it to work. It's not the easist thing in the world to do, espically when you have a manual that says to figure it out for yourself (I'm not kinding, says it right in the User Guide and Referance Manual). If only someone could make a version of Linux for idiots (in the eyes of other Linux users, not to say your actaully a idiot), if only......or at least increase hardware support. That I would like to much to say. Just think copyright, if we found a OS that was to easy to use/intall, then whats the point? We have to have something go wrong!

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[copyright_1978]

The reason why Linux doesn't crash so often is because of the fact that most users don't have a program to crash it with!!!

When Linux is modified or developed, network users and programmers are always considered first and then the OS is built from that, this leaves normal home users in the lurch.

Fact: the majority of Linux users are students from the age of 17 to 24, most people like myself didn't get Linux because it was a network tool or a programmers easy way to code, we bloody got it for the friggin experience. I just wanted to mess around with some of the commands so that I could become familiar with the crap that Linux contains. But does it have any actual use?? Oh no, I am yet to come across a program that lets me get some work done!!! So my point is this, if you mess around with MS-DOS only for the commands then it is less likley to crash but open a RAM hungry 3D program and the crashes start, Linux doesn't have programs like this so thats why it doesn't crash!

Windows might crash alot more than Linux, but tell me is it worth giving up 2 Gigs just to learn some commands or display what beauty Linux has to mates that come over for the night??

[UGoscinny]

Copyright_1978:

This posting is an attempt of a reply to all the cumulative whining you have been doing out here, and I do hesitate to bring it up thus far, cos this board has never had any true flames, but if you do post inflammatory posts, be prepared to read em.

First off, if you think that Linux is used by ages 17-24, you have demonstrated the first characteristic of a person that the Linux community will be glad to be without - a person who has no basis in facts, just a whole bunch of demographix that go nowhere. It does nothing to help the new Linuxer wannabe, and your comments are highly detrimental to the spirit of helping on this board.

Now as regards to that age group, I have been a *NIXer for the past 10 years and I am way past your criterion. And stop saying most people didnt get Linux, cos the computation world doesnt cater to people who want to play Solitaire.

Yes Linux is a Network OS first, and if you think you know Linux without picking up a piece of documentation, then its better off for the Linux community that you dont enter.

If you had actually come forth with a post saying that you cant get Linux to install, or that your soundcard isnt getting recognized am sure we'd have all helped.

Its really amazing how much an incompetent person will whine, if you had any form of skills, you would know what to do with a module or a kernel http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif .. no a device driver is not searching out the best INF.

And regarding any actual use of Linux.. no there is none .. I wish you continued success with Windoze. Both OS' have their merits, Windoze is great for keeping users for you in their fold.

.... now use your mouse and click away.. there ya go .. you have reached the limits of your computation abilities!

http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[vitalstatistix]

Copyright
Just because you cannot drive a Ferrari, do not start blaming it on Ferrari. options 4 u: either sit on fence and watch, or go to books and learn to do it right.

having used linux & Windows for over 12+ years i will say ***Sourgrapes*** ...
Only if u could read well b4 think, think well b4 attempt and attempt very well b4 you crib.

you want testimonies for linux then look no further then WWW. From servers to gaming you got it all, go figure.

bye
VTSTX
PS: need help, learn to be be polite first

PPS: your post was a goood source of laughter at YOUR expense *LOL* :OP

[This message has been edited by vitalstatistix (edited 06-03-2000).]

[Toaster]

It`s clear that those that dis-like Linux are nothing but self proclaimed experts at computers because they can click their way around and get something "done".
Simply installing Linux and familiarizing oneself with it gives you no right to critic it. Linux is a "open scource" O/S where the users support the "idea". No one corporation (even monopoly`s such as Micky$oft) owns Linux. Linux now commands fully 10%+ of the O/S market and is growing by leaps and bounds. People didn`t know how to use DOS so they shunned it due to their inability to use it, same goes for Linux.
Just because your too thick to use Linux doesn`t mean their isn`t software support for it or a use that exceeds that of Micky$ofts.
Go back to your Micky$oft interface, it doesn`t reqire any thought...I think that suites you just fine.

Antarctic?...where?

[This message has been edited by Toaster (edited 06-03-2000).]

[UGoscinny]

Ahh another one....

Yes that is the way Linux works, as Vitalstatistix said [12+years? you mustve with the community since birth! Good to have u on the forum], so either learn to think the posix/*nix way or stop thinking and use Mickeysoft..

Again, I wish you'd get your facts right, Mickeysoft does not support more hardware, and saying that it does is another case of dogs bollocks, because
(a) It always weeds out support for old hardware .. result is increasing cost to you to get the same thing done; and
(b) it is up to the h/w mfg-er to make a driver and then get it M$ certified
How many years have you used computers to have not figured this part out.
Microsoft has forever and will forever only support a cross section of the most common hardware being used. & if you think you can qualify Microsoft so extensively, let me also tell you that I am no slouch to M$ either. Try loading M$ windows 2000, on a PC with a working ACPI bios but with a date that is not in the y2k+ .. you have to go through a setuptxt.sif work around, but then again. Try loading M$ with a set of video drivers that have not been certified by them, but that work fine anyway? You wont even get a "bollock"y reboot.

And again, I have this to say, stop whining, and as Toaster said, simply being able to boot Linux off a cd rom does not give you the expertise to comment on a particular system of operating that has been around a lot longer than your purty little icons and pointing device... and to take it a step further, I doubt if you even have 2 hours of experience with it. I speak from the experience of doing more installs than I can keep track of, on hardware that was not designed for average solitaire users.

Oh yeah, but Joe, I'll give you a teensy clue... when you install your stock drivers and your stock kernel for windows [yeah windows does have a kernel too .. a very buggy one] .. you run the same kernel and the same set of drivers that all the windoze users run on their computer, now justify it to me, why you - who have different hardware, needs - boot up your computer the same way as the rest of the pack? When you put in your video drivers through the purty little Install Hardware window, do you even have any clue as to what your video hardware is? Do you know what the RamDAC setting is if any? I highly doubt it.

Again, I still stand by it, use Windoze all you want, but dont try to install a network OS without knowing the first thing about a network .. or an OS, and come here claiming to be some sort of an expert at guaging the power of a kernel, cos you have much to learn.

Toaster .. Antartica, among all the noble penguins. And the %s of linux users are up, but it is a very knowledgeable % of users that grace this part of the pie. No M$ user has ever been able to speak in terms of a community.. whereas it has always been a Linux community, hasnt it?

What amazes me is that I have hardly ever, if ever, seen a Linux user go into a space set aside for Wind Ows users and start praising about Tux, and yet, these so called know-it-alls have always had no qualms about going into a Linux area claiming to be technology experts, and ragging on the *NIX way and trolling for Microsoft, as if they had been forced at gunpoint to install Linux Had the *NIX way not been a proven way, I'd have given it some thought, but its not, the system works better than any other OS. & they go around trolling away with flames, if only they had come forth with a posting stating : this is my hardware, I couldnt get it to work, can someone please help, and there would be a million friends who wouldve risen to help, and you can bet that 999,999 of these users DO KNOW about computers cos they can run Linux. Instead of the generic, reinstall Windows, or backup registry.

The fact that the Copyrighted person couldnt figure out "how come" Linux was free and paid for it [in a related post], just shows the amount of expertise and zeal to get Linux, in question.

[Statica]

Hi Folks:
Me again, after a while, I might add ...

I'll second what Ugoscinny, Vitalstatistix and Toaster have said, on the merits of the Linux OS and the opensource community. Like I've said in the past, do your research before you try to put something like Linux on, Just cos you heard on the news that Linux was a good OS or just an alternative OS doesnt mean that you necessarily have the know-how to tackle the how-to's.

& its posts like these that have put me off from posting on this bulletin board .. no matter that I have posted the same queries and have tried my best .. I have a great deal of patience and what I believe an honest willingness to help anyone who needs it. But all this deliberate negativity just puts me off, and I most definitely dont care about helping people who have neither the willingness to accept the advice or to pick up an FAQ and read it. These are people who even though have no qualifications to critique the methods employed by a Linux without ever having been able to use it.

In case you [those in question] didnt know, there is even a constructive way to make a query. I, speaking for me, dont give two hoots about what OS you prefer and what OS you couldnt get to work, so its best you keep your drawl uneducated commentaries about the age demographics Linux caters to, and go back to whatever OS you run.

Posting your indignation once was acceptable, lots of people cant get Linux to work the first time around, going about it too many times is overkill, which would explain why your queries for drivers remain uncatered to .. even though its plainly obvious where the drivers are to be downloaded from.

Lastly, I qualify myself as a Linux lover first, and then a BillySoftware hater next .. seems like your first priority is to diss Linux and Linux users.

I hear that its a good day to FDISK your harddrive.

Cheers...

[mairving]

Mr. Static,
Glad to see you back here. I have seen your postings in other parts of this forum (Windows ME-yuck). You have given a lot of users good advice. I wouldn't give up your postings here because of whiners. I started to respond to this post earlier but it did seem rather pointless to try and help someone who didn't seem to want help. Linux isn't for everybody. It takes some time to set up. It takes time to learn. Most people that would spend the time with it and be patient would like it. I had a bad initial experience with an install of Caldera OpenLinux. Mandrake made me a fan. I still haven't figured it all out but I usually know where to find the answers. This is one of my best sources.

[Statica]

Hi Mairving:
Yeah it has been a while. I was interested in the workings of Win-ME. I am currently using a machine with Win2K and I like it a lot for its stability. The rest is just the same, but I like to keep an open mind about it.

Other than that, havent been on much cos I was busy with reality-1.24.4.tar.gz http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif.. finished off with one part of my education, and graduation, and looking like an idiot [not knowing whether I should grab that scroll of paper first or shake the hand first .. hooo boy that was embarrassing!]

Hope your penguins have been flourishing..

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-03-2000).]

[Joe Auman]

Well UGoscinny, I'm running Intel 3D AGP Graphics with the Intel 810 Chipset acclerator with the Intel 810 Chipset Graphics Driver (DC100) 4.11.01.2555; Revision 002. 4Mb allocated SDRAM from system memory running on IRQ 11, and the I/O usage summary are as follows: 03B0h-03BBh, 03C0h-03DFh, 000A0000h-000AFFFFh, 000B0000h-000BFFFFh, 000C0000h-000C7FFFh, F8000000h-FBFFFFFFh, and FFA80000h-FFAFFFFFh. Satisfied?

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[UGoscinny]

Maybe it will drive my point home...
http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/intel810/linuxsoftware.htm

Now if only you knew what to do with that page...

See I used the exact same amount of info that you supplied me. Incidentally, just cos you can copy the values off Microsoft Device Manager doesnt mean anything, so no point satisfying me.. [whatever for? I dont know], the difference was and will be that if I ever failed to collect information before booting up my Linux setup [due to a brain cramp], I would actually go read some FAQ's and documentation, before doing random reboots and shooting blanks into the air.
As you can see those will be Intel's supported drivers for Linux, so dont .. nay TRY NOT TO.. whine about Linux not coming with all the drivers for all the hardware on a single CD.

Anyways .. as I said plainly obvious

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Auman:
Well UGoscinny, I'm running Intel 3D AGP Graphics with the Intel 810 Chipset acclerator with the Intel 810 Chipset Graphics Driver (DC100) 4.11.01.2555; Revision 002. 4Mb allocated SDRAM from system memory running on IRQ 11, and the I/O usage summary are as follows: 03B0h-03BBh, 03C0h-03DFh, 000A0000h-000AFFFFh, 000B0000h-000BFFFFh, 000C0000h-000C7FFFh, F8000000h-FBFFFFFFh, and FFA80000h-FFAFFFFFh. Satisfied?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Joe Auman]

Take a look here: <a href="http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/intel810/linuxinstal.htm">How to install the I810 drivers in Linux</a>

Where in the hell are you getting this stuff about "random reboots?" I have not done one random reboot to see if it would work yet. For the lack, oh wait, I can't whine here, which means I can't ask for help. So, I'll leave it at this: Say goodbye to me from this forum since some people refuse to acknowledge that Linux is not the perfect OS, as some of you think. And just incase your wondering, I'm not saying windows is any better. If any of you would remember, any other person would have shipped Linux back right after they hit their first problem, which I have been spending over a month trying to get it to work correctly. Sorry if I insulted anyone about Linux, but it's just as instulting to say that your a complete idiot, which you so clearly demonstrated UGoscinny. Good bye, and good riddens.

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.


[This message has been edited by Joe Auman (edited 06-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joe Auman (edited 06-04-2000).]

[copyright_1978]

Okay I'm sorry if I "upset" you babies, but I don't apologise for the things I said.
I paid for Linux and the other software that came with it so all in all I am entitled to rubbish it off and I expect them to work when I get home!

You might be saying to yourself, well why didn'y you read some documentation on Linux before you bought the damn thing, the reason is simple - it's people like you who brag on and on about Linux and how great it is, with things like it doesn't crash, it doesn't stall, it doesn't blah, blah, blah... the Mandrake documentation is another thing which just points out the simple explanations and never gets into detail.

As for my fact about 17 - 24 year olds using Linux, I suggest you go to www.linux.com (http://www.linux.com) and read the results of their Poll... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... ah..lord..

Just one other thing... a computer was built to make life easier... Unix was built to make life easier... so if you think you are cool just because you know Unix... hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaha!!!!
Mate, I couldn't give a damn if you were an expert it's nothing more to me that software which I use to get some work done!! Unix is not a substitute for life, and I don't have the slightest inkling why you would want to boast on and on about it. Oh yeah, I only use the computer for about 3-4 hors a day, from 9 to 5, so I think it's pathetic to go back to it later on during the day.
I understand Joe's point he wants to get some experience just like moi, but the rest of you... Get a life dudes. http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif

Sorry, I just had to add this in...

Hahhahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaahha! I know I'll get flamed for this, but who cares Linux is my arse as far as I am concerned... hahahahahahhaha..

[This message has been edited by copyright_1978 (edited 06-04-2000).]

[mairving]

Flaming someone is not my intent. Linux, to me, is a great OS. It's not a religion. It's not something to live or die for. It is just an OS. Part of the problem is the way that some people ask for help. Ask one question, don't listen to anything and start trashing Linux in a Linux forum. Try doing that in maybe the Linuxnewbie forum, they'll really come after you.

Joe, I hope you don't give up just yet. You have spent some valuable time here that I would hate to see go wasted.

[Statica]

Just to close out my humble views on this subject
(a) ©-1978 .. the page you went to is a vote/consensus/poll, it is a poll among
(i) people who visitted the site
(ii) people who took the time to vote
(iii) I wish you had presented your opinion in a more factual frame of mind .. ie. out of 6908 as of 11:34AM, 36.83% of them were in the 18-24 age group,
that is neither a factual demographic nor representative of user ages.

(b) I do not care about your behind, kindly refrain from bringing it out. I do not care what OS you have up there. And the letter "a" preceeded by "h" does not a rhetoric make, does not any sense make, and just demonstrates that two of your fingers are stuck in a repetitive motion. I'm sure you had a point to it, but am sure it was lost alongwith references of your behind.

(b) Ugoscinny never once mentioned you were an idiot, neither has he said that he was affiliated to windows and was defending it. The problem is, and I agree with Mairving, that its a very negative and prejudiced sense of querying, especially when you dont know how to use the OS. First learn to use then abuse!

(c) And by random reboots, I am assuming, and agree, that simply reinstalling Linux over and over is crazy if you cant get a particular h/w to work. Linux hardly if ever needs a reboot, much less a reinstall for most hardware, especially video drivers.

[copyright_1978]

What are you on about you dope?? I just want to get some work done!!

[Joe Auman]

I agree with Copy, are you people really this dense?

Quote from UGoscinny: .... now use your mouse and click away.. there ya go .. you have reached the limits of your computation abilities! Tell me this that this is not a insulting remark of my intelligence, which I become very offended when people put it down.

As for the reinstallations, I end up having to do this because the people who wrote all the directions liked to make it a little harder by "forgetting" a few most important steps which made it extremely hard for any newbe to even attempt to become close to seeing what your suppost to. Which involved me screwing up X.

One thing I did remember why installing anything on any Linux machine is like ripping a car engine apart, and managing to return it back to its origional condition blindfolded (even with compression and timing set perfectly, oh and don't forget about stroke length). With thousands of different "bug-free" kernels running around, finding one software version that will even come close to installing is almost impossible. And so called "Red Hat compatible Linux's" also doesn't mean that it will work on yours. This is one major reason Windows is used so often: compatiblity of software from praticly any machine to another (this also spans across different OS's, ex. W3.1 all the way to 98). And yes UGoscinny, I knew windows had a kernel.

I may have broke my word (at least marving cared at all) about me never coming back, but some of these comments are really bugging me, as mine are bugging you.

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[This message has been edited by Joe Auman (edited 06-04-2000).]

[vitalstatistix]

Howdy Ex-static-cling,

yeah 12+ years .. *Nix + Linux + home grown flavors of AT&T SV *nix including HCL'Oasis. and not 2 forget Cheap Process Control Systems built around MS Windows 2.0. http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif

C'right
a) u shud see a doc for you repititive-key-stuck-disorder
b) we all do have a life, however, it appears you dont have one, hence trying to change and is evident form you whining
c) mate(???), if u need help, ask for it politely.
d) b4 u start pointing finger, find out whats your contribution to the community.
e) whining, cribbing, abusing!! whats next? :P
and you will be pleased to know Linux is COPYLEFT *lol*


Toaster, Mairving, Ex-static
amazing, ppl come to linux knowing its not from Gill bate$ stable, still they expect it to work/fail like it.Why cant they expect its something different and has a learning curve associated with it.

Joe
Just noted on the Intel page, the 810 driver is specifically for RH 6.0? Try it on rh 6.0 and it will work!

folks, on the lighter side, actually dont we need some more copyright_1978, atleast that way this PCMech UBB becomes a source of laughter too!

cheeers


Getafix aka getafix123 aka vitalstatistix :P

PS: changes in ID becos, it disables after a prolonged period of inactivity!


[This message has been edited by vitalstatistix (edited 06-04-2000).]

[Joe Auman]

Yeah, I know for it will work on a RH system no problem, but try just once to get it to run on a Mandrake system! My previous post says it all.

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[vitalstatistix]

Joe

boy, you cant expect a compiled driver for RH 6.0 to run without problem for Mandrake. If at all u want to, try compiling it on Mandrake! you maybe lucky.

again
a) dont believe on hear-say.
b) you dont search for a kernel, you compile a kernel.
c) Linux is not windows.
d) windows is an illegitimate kid of VMS. VMS is a distant Rock Stable sibbling of *nix.
e) i (we) really dont give two hoots to ur agreement to C'right.
f)as i said, Linux is not a Monolithic corporation, its a community, build by co-operation not by pointing fingers. Here if we find a shortcoming, we fix it, not WHINE.
g) Your current problem: ref http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000353.html
dude, read your own posts and see if you make any sense. It lacks data and is full of emotions. You going insane is non of our business or is it?
better willbe get a book which tells you about UNIX and the basic cocepts about file system etc. Clear your concept, try installing, Betch ya, u will have lesser and pin-pointed qustions.

cheeers


GTFX


[This message has been edited by vitalstatistix (edited 06-04-2000).]

[Statica]

Hey VTSTX .. you Getafix? Kewl... am surprised you are wasting time dude.
Hmm so who's Goscinny? Another LinuxSupporter huh? http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anyways guys .. just forget it. When the neighbourhood gets noisy at night .. u close the "windows" to shut out the din.

Stop trying to get into a battle of wits VTSTX, its a severe disadvantage, especially when some of us are of the opinion that a kernel needs to be searched out, and an rpm is unheard of, and all that, just check out the query from byte from below.
http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000385.html

Again, I'd reply to it, but I dont like hecklers.

On a related note: Dok [if u read], the same thing came up on the Rants & Raves, unqualified opining, that has not one iota of constructive thought behind it, and I guess my words were too strong then?? For the past few posts [not replies to posts], there hasnt been a microbe of rationale, becos those that know havent even got a chance to try to help someone out before the heckling begins. Anyways its your bulletin board and your prerogative.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-04-2000).]

[vitalstatistix]

Hi Ex-Static
I know what you mean. Precisely the reason i went quiet for a while to see if situation improves, but i guess NOT.

cheeers

gtfx

[Joe Auman]

I have had a full day to think about what I have said, and I realize the wrongs of my ways. I was running on pure adrenline on the way I was right and everyone was wrong, but I came to notice that it was the EXACT opisite. I realize I may have hurt some people, but I'm repling to say that I'm wrong, trully wrong. There is nothing I can say but I'm sorry. I have way too much to learn before I can even attempt to say my opions on Linux. I'll give it a shot to really get to know it, but don't expect much from me. I'm sorry and I'll try to someday, in someway to make it up to you guys. I'll understand if anyone whishes to go on, but I suggest that this foolishness stops for the sake of us all. Thank you for setting me straight. I'm sorry, trully sorry from the depts of my humanity.

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[copyright_1978]

Vital whatever your name is what are you on about?? I'm just stating the fact that most developers spend their life coding the Linux kernel that they forget to produce software for it, I'm not talking about any crap software, I'm on about software which actually lets you do some work.

Oh yes, don't give me that **** and bull story about how you hate Windows and how you have abolished if from your harddrive, because it's friggin obvious that you still use the damn thing. You Contradicting idiot.

Joe, I think the best thing to do is purchase a cheap computer then bung all the "supported" hardware in and install Linux, if this doesn't work go to www.download.com (http://www.download.com) to get one of those programs which claim to make a driver for any device. If this doesn't work, then... don't give up mate, you are not the only one http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/wink.gif

[vitalstatistix]

Joe
a) start another thread with problem description.
b) everything has a learning curve associated, we all went thru it
cheers
gtfx


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Auman:
I have had a full day to think about what I have said, and I realize the wrongs of my ways. I was running on pure adrenline on the way I was right and everyone was wrong, but I came to notice that it was the EXACT opisite. I realize I may have hurt some people, but I'm repling to say that I'm wrong, trully wrong. There is nothing I can say but I'm sorry. I have way too much to learn before I can even attempt to say my opions on Linux. I'll give it a shot to really get to know it, but don't expect much from me. I'm sorry and I'll try to someday, in someway to make it up to you guys. I'll understand if anyone whishes to go on, but I suggest that this foolishness stops for the sake of us all. Thank you for setting me straight. I'm sorry, trully sorry from the depts of my humanity.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[UGoscinny]

Hi Joe:
Pretty natural, all's forgotten, we're all the same out here, small people pushing around atoms and pretending to get the most out of their systems. Whatever works for you is the best for you. We're always there to help, should you need any. I did start a new thread, based on what I could gather from your problems so far.

Cheers Joe

[mairving]

Copyright, you do need to be careful. Name calling is not a thing that is allowed on this board. A disagreement is one thing but to personally attack someone is another.

[vitalstatistix]

a) tis Vitalstatistix, i see you have problem with phonetics and comprehension too.
b) developers, Thats what human race is all about, development and destruction (gill bates listening). You shud check about yours?
c) working software, http://www.falconweb.com/~linuxrx/WS_Linux/OS_comparison.html, read it, take someone elder' help to understand it, and speak with more meat and less emotions. Still feeling old itch of yours, check out http://www.freshmeat.net

Though I would sincerely request you to not get onto linux bandwagon, becos this community doesnt really need ppl like you, do we folks?

hth

gtfx
PS: you make us laugh C'right, ROFL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by copyright_1978:
Vital whatever your name is what are you on about?? I'm just stating the fact that most developers spend their life coding the Linux kernel that they forget to produce software for it, I'm not talking about any crap software, I'm on about software which actually lets you do some work.

Oh yes, don't give me that **** and bull story about how you hate Windows and how you have abolished if from your harddrive, because it's friggin obvious that you still use the damn thing. You Contradicting idiot.

Joe, I think the best thing to do is purchase a cheap computer then bung all the "supported" hardware in and install Linux, if this doesn't work go to www.download.com (http://www.download.com) to get one of those programs which claim to make a driver for any device. If this doesn't work, then... don't give up mate, you are not the only one http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Statica]

OHHHHHH that is too funny .. hahaha Getafix the kid called you a closet M$-er. Will you be posting the list of hardware under you? Hmm do you think the wee laddie works for ISOCOR? *LOL*

Hey kid..err copyright-1978, please dont stop posting here, http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif .. you're really funny.
With that rapier sharp wit, and your keen command of the abrasive use of HA and HA strung together, you give us some source of amusement.

PS: VTSTX - with that attitude he's beyond scope of the medical profession, you can of course take 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions too.

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-05-2000).]

[UGoscinny]

Oh just when I thought the fun was over, and that you had successfully shot yourself in the foot in every possible way and been the source of the most uneducated insipid poster in all my experience on the web [which is longer than you will remember kiddie], you have raised the bar at absolute lack of taste, decorum or content.

ESC is right, please dont stop posting here.

It would be a shame to see such "farsighted myopic" comments.

Lack of applications huh? You are so very right Copyright! Wow! Finally someone saw it! Come on folks .. we all knew this Alternative OS mumbo jumbo wouldnt fly ..

Well on the bright side, you havent succeeded in getting across your one dimensional thought process, even edgeways, but you have succeeded in making me choke my tongue .. I cant contain my laughter. Oh i hope the mods dont delete this thread, and I hope you make at least a few more postings, not till I can get my friends at work to look at it.

Thanx a heap Copyright.

If you find them marbles, please make sure you count before reinitializing your neural network.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by copyright_1978:
Vital whatever your name is what are you on about?? I'm just stating the fact that most developers spend their life coding the Linux kernel that they forget to produce software for it, I'm not talking about any crap software, I'm on about software which actually lets you do some work.


Oh yes, don't give me that **** and bull story about how you hate Windows and how you have abolished if from your harddrive, because it's friggin obvious that you still use the damn thing. You Contradicting idiot.


Joe, I think the best thing to do is purchase a cheap computer then bung all the "supported" hardware in and install Linux, if this doesn't work go to www.download.com (http://www.download.com) to get one of those programs which claim to make a driver for any device. If this doesn't work, then... don't give up mate, you are not the only one http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[vitalstatistix]

ESC
right said Doc! as regard 2nd and 3rd opinion, well First opionion is the one that mattered.
its free entertainment, so why bother, enjoy the show while it lasts!

http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif

GTFX
PS: Doc, you mite have irked 'kids' by your post
PPS: it cannot be Isocor, they are a shade more wiser when it comes to shooting in the foot!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ex-Static-Cling:
OHHHHHH that is too funny .. hahaha Getafix the kid called you a closet M$-er. Will you be posting the list of hardware under you? Hmm do you think the wee laddie works for ISOCOR? *LOL*

Hey kid..err copyright-1978, please dont stop posting here, http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif .. you're really funny.
With that rapier sharp wit, and your keen command of the abrasive use of HA and HA strung together, you give us some source of amusement.

PS: VTSTX - with that attitude he's beyond scope of the medical profession, you can of course take 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions too.

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-05-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by vitalstatistix (edited 06-05-2000).]

[vitalstatistix]

hey Uderzo

howdy dude, i take you also a fan of Asterix like me?

cheers

gtfx

[Xayd]

Well, after reading this thread, and being a self-taught Linux user myself, I thought I'd add a few things to both sides of the argument.

Yes, I agree, it comes from a UNIX model, so it's a server OS at heart. I personally started with Red Hat 6.0, simply because I heard that it was an easy distribution to set up. It wasn't terribly difficult with a good reference book, but the suggestion I'd make to the open source companies like Red Hat are this...

Instead of distributing thousands of packages with an OS that only work with model xxx-xx-yyy device, on the 3453.5.346l46.46 version of this kernel only, distribute software packages that work in virtually all configurations. Don't give me the line that "open source projects are ALWAYS in development", it doesn't wash. Either the distributed version of whatever software package works relatively well on MOST configurations, or it doesn't.

Second, instead of integrating ALL functions of the OS into a desktop environment (be it gnome or kde) that's shaky at best, make the desktop environment stable, and give it minimal capability until other functions are made 99% stable as well, then integrate them one at a time.

I like Linux because I like to tinker. It's a fun OS to play with, but it's far from fun to implement and configure. It is this way because companies like Red Hat are trying to put a clean shiny look on a collection of half built products. The development community has no obligation to warranty their software, I understand that. But even more so, commercial distributors of Linux have LESS of an obligation to distribute patchy, half completed, unstable software.

Linux would be a much more stable and much more "usable" OS if the commercial distributors would step up to the plate and regulate what goes into their distributions a bit. After all, I did PAY Red Hat for my OS. I'd at least expect them to give everything a run through on the MOST COMMON combinations of hardware and software implementations. Apparently, though, at least Red Hat, will throw anything in with their OS, working, unworking, beta, or whatever.

In my brand new 500 mhz machine all I needed was an OS that I could use, not a scrillion software packages that came unwarrantied and untested. I know the standard lacky response to this will be "what, you want Linux distributors to play Microsoft and start kicking developers out of the loop?"

No, I want an OS and software that does what the person I PAID claims, not software that MIGHT do what some 20 year old kid at "blah@bluh.bleh.ack.ugh.edu" claims.

Organization is the key. Though most Linux distributions have promise, organization they lack, and that will always keep them in second place to the Windows and MAC OS's.

Xayd

[This message has been edited by Xayd (edited 06-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Xayd (edited 06-06-2000).]

[Statica]

As opposed to what XayD? Bill Gates standing there giving the thumbs up of his 63K+ bugged version of extremely expensive hardware numbing, feature pathetic MicroCrap windoze?
Oh and lets not forget the amt of dough you need to shell out to get those service packs in and the disservice that Windoze does in not being able to bring out a single stable homeuser targetted filesystem [yeah FAT is archaic FAT32 is screwed!]

Personally, I'd rather have frequent upgrades, if a 20 yr old knows to code better than the eggheads that constitute a big brand corporation, so be it.
Besides, it is my belief that the moment you generalise hardware and put everything into the same pickle jar, you end at where you started from "Starting Windows" logo. My processors are different from yours, my logistics are different, my needs are different, forget even mine, I can have different systems on my very same network, one as the firewall one as the workstation, one as the fileserver, with that very same distribution of Linux, and each one of them could be optimized to my heart's content. Try getting an NT to function solely as a firewall, and then try to tell it to behave as a SAMBA server, while blocking out ports 139, and yet allowing UDP transmission through to port 65536...
& that my friend is why we have Linux, the ultimate power contained in a single CD all for free.
That way ultimately when the rest of the world goes to buying the "Septium" processors and the distributors of "common" processing solutions bring out their new release I wont be left in the lurch. I can put in what I want, upgrade what I want.

Oh yeah .. incidentally if you bought RedHat, you would get more support free of cost that you would get Microsoft.

And fortunately for us all, OpenSource is always in development, and not mired in the perpetual doldrum of having to release vulnerability patches and security updates once every 36 hours [at least!]

As regards the GUI, I agree, anyways none of my server implementations have the GUI, and most sysadmins I know wouldnt put it in too. But mostly cos its just a tax on a system and a liability anyway.

See your view of the OS is from the point of view of the enthusiast, mine is from the view of a networker, and I've had to put these OS' to the yoke everyday. For me Linux is simply perfect... except that it has been dumbed down a whole lot. If wishes were horses, I'd still be riding my Slackware horse.

[Statica]

Just thought I'd finish it off with this one last thought..
perhaps all this search for the alternative OS and coming up on Linux is a negative thing for Linux.

For example the average hardware chewing homeuser probably wants to do their spreadsheets and play some psychedelic implementation of a gory game..
Now here's where it gets interesting, normally they wouldnt think of installing windows NT on there, why? cos h/w support is very poor, grafix engines and optimizations are down there.
But all this talk about the stable environs of Linux has people believing that they need Linux, when they actually
(a) dont need it
(b) cant handle it
[I dont mean it pointing fingers to anyone, just a general opinion]
And when they fail, it gives a whole lot of negativity. OpenSource was there long before Linus popularized it, and it has been the de facto standards of getting these network integrated bits of programming out there.
<HR>
Basically it boils down to, users not being able to understand their needs when it comes to computers. People trash their Pentiums run out and buy Pentium IIIs, they simply cannot fathom what % of their pentium was being used and if it ever turned out to be a bottleneck to their work. I know people, who hardly turn on their comps for a cpl of hours on full mooned nights, for a spot of websurfing, talking to me about upgrading their old processors.
The same way, why use a network OS, when you can deal with a home OS. Especially since you dont need security or reliability at a terrible sense of urgency.

[Joe Auman]

I have to agree on what Static says. Upgrading for no reason is a waste of everyone's time. I know this one kid who managed to get his parents to get the top of the line, Dell with a PIII 600Mhz, the fastest at the time. His old PII 450 would have done him nicely (doesn't play games and barely uses the internt). Now he brags on how he hasn't turned it on in over three (thats 3) months. I just sits there, looking pretty and becoming a dust magnet. It really irks me to see that those type of people have this much money to buy a new computer and not use. I guess they just want to tell their friends that they have the top of the line.

As for W2k, I would have loved to have it, but when I saw the prices, I could not belive someone could put such a price on software. $315 for the full version, and $250 for the upgrade. I don't think Bill will be selling too much any time soon.

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[vitalstatistix]

xaYd
a) did you ever read the documentation b4 you start on any software?
b) most Linux software are part of CVS (go figure!) where you can get either the bleeding edge devel version or working or even an oder release. If you cannot decide which release you want to, why blame it on Linux.
c) Linux empowers its users, it doesnt decide for them.

This (c above) is the fundamental differnece between ready-to-crook sw from M$ and its lackies, and Open-Source. Ask yourself do you want some one else to decide for your software requirement, if so then dont come to Linux, on the contrary you wanna rule and control, then have fun with penguins!

cheers


gtfx

[Statica]

Hey druid:

Dont you mean ready to CROOK software? shareware, crippleware, nagware .. all of them the same.
Especially when you consider stuff like MRTG, the only thing the author wanted [if anyone was keen on it] was a music CD. Not only does it demonstrate an acute passion for utilizing coding talents for the good of coding, but shuns the "anything for money attitude" of the M$-domain.

In addition, consider this scenario:
8 months after installing windoze, you start having random hangups, or say you upgraded netmeeting to version y, and it wont utilize your video capture devices, who would you turn to for support? Calling M$? But you would have to pay .. emailing M$? Good luck! No, you are realistically relegated to one of these
(i) reinstalling the program or the OS [its true, most ppl do it] till u get the formula right
(ii) coming to a forum and hoping someone can solve it for you
(iii) searching through bug list and hope that M$ finds time to do something about inconsistencies between your h/w and M$ product.

Now consider the corollary .. the OpenSource model .. should an inconsistency arise
(i) the developer is listed by means of the *.edu addy that you scoffed, you can write to him
(ii) contact the FAQ maintainer, if different from the developer, or the repository owner where you found the s/w listed
(iii) Post on a linux prominent forum, the difference is that you will either be told what you did wrong, or a patch will be released by ANYONE [may or maynot be the developer]

& I havent even touched upon the obvious: wish lists that actually turn into reality.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vitalstatistix:
xaYd
a) did you ever read the documentation b4 you start on any software?
b) most Linux software are part of CVS (go figure!) where you can get either the bleeding edge devel version or working or even an oder release. If you cannot decide which release you want to, why blame it on Linux.
c) Linux empowers its users, it doesnt decide for them.

This (c above) is the fundamental differnece between ready-to-crook sw from M$ and its lackies, and Open-Source. Ask yourself do you want some one else to decide for your software requirement, if so then dont come to Linux, on the contrary you wanna rule and control, then have fun with penguins!

cheers


gtfx<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[copyright_1978]

Vital, have you made love to Linux yet?

[vitalstatistix]

ROFL
C'right
Is this your idea of using a computer (sic) (ROFL). No wonder you dont like linux, becos it doesnt 'scr*w' you and your happiness like your favorite ones.(ROFL)

you are a walking talking living can of Nitrous Oxide. *LOL*

keep posting.

ROFL

Gtfx

PS: FYI, nitrous oxide == Laughing Gas (just in case)

PPS: Folks Isnt this most innovative use this dude(?) has put an operating system into,isnt it?

[Joe Auman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by copyright_1978:
Vital, have you made love to Linux yet?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is wrong on so many levels, yet it is also incredibly funny! I never knew this forum could have so much life (or lack of it {directed towards Copy}). Ok, I understand that I was a raging looney, but at least I figured out what I was doing. Copy, take a day off and think about what you posted. You might find out that this is not the right thing to be doing. It worked for me.

P.S.- First post on the second page! http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[This message has been edited by Joe Auman (edited 06-07-2000).]

[copyright_1978]

Nah, mate... I bet vital mod probes his privates Using Linux. http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/wink.gif