Re: Bugged up installation - Joe Auman

[UGoscinny]

Hi Joe:
Just thought we'd start afresh. Here's what we know so far, you have a Dell LC500 [which I am not aware of], but I do assume that you are trying a dualboot [you mentioned PartitionMagic], and that you have an unrecognized i810 and your X server doesnt work, am I right so far?

Ok, let me take the time to just intro you to linux. Its a Network OS, the emphasis has always been to provide a safe and stable software environment that is low on overhead and high on raw performance. It is designed very difficult from a "commercial OS", in the sense that those that come to Linux come by choice, ie. they want to learn the nix, or want a network etc. & so it has never been looked upon as a disadvantage that the uninitiated have a tough time. Now towards the end of the 90's onwards, with Trovalds coming into the limelight, a lot of distributions have come up, and there is a move to make it userfriendly.

My point being that, all the latest greatest hardware might not necessarily be supported out of the CD. But the CD is not Linux, the CD is just a simple distribution of Linux. Most mfg-ers still are slow on bringing drivers for Linux, for two reasons, (a) they still belong to the M$ legion, their products are geared to working within the windoze environ and (b) Usually someone always beats them to it. It is very rare to find a device that is not supported, or that is not documented. There is of course a price to pay for this too.. it is up to the end user to search for the missing drivers. That is why, before you start any installation of any OS it is highly recommended that you cross reference your devices with the support.

Download the drivers as stated in the intel support page and make a note of the instructions.

Ok enough longwinded introductions. Am assuming that you were able to get the basic packages all into your computer. When you come to the part about X server skip it, or even if you try it, DO NOT SET IT TO START X Configuration at bootup.

When you have started your machine, you will boot to console mode. Log in using root. Follow the instructions as stated on the page. They are more than adequate and will put in the requisite files.

The problem that you are probably having is that the Mundrake uses 3.3.x for X, and that tries to do an installation of the i740 chipset, which is rather close on the clockchip dept, but not even the same. And when the X configuration is assumed as done, you probably have been setting it to automatically start it at boot time, and pressing C-A-B just reinitializes and restarts the X server.

Also a point to note is that, I dont know what version of Mundrake you are using, after Mundrake was released they came out with TWO brownbag changes to their CD cos of installation and other problems. The download sources have the 70-2 ISO file.

Hope this is of some use for now!

Uderzo

[vitalstatistix]

Joe

let us know how it goes on above. U Goscinny has summed it all for you. Give us the version of Mandrake etc too.

cheers

GTFX

[Joe Auman]

Thanks for starting anew.
As best I cna tell from the documentation (which is extremely limited) I'm running Mandrake 7.0 with XFree86 3.3.6. If this doesn't help at all, let me know and I'll see if I can find some more out.

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FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[Statica]

Tis fine Joe for now, just be aware that you might have some install inconsistencies with not using Recommended Install .. MIGHT! 7/10 times it worked for me when I tested Mundrake.

X 4.x has support for i810 built in. but 3.3.x doesnt. So you have to use the files from the intel site.

Are you dualbooting?

The procedure above is right.

Good luck

PS: we dont intend to trivialize or demoralize you, this is the way it is at the learning curve, unfortunately its just that you dont seem to have a UNIX background, its a help but by no means a must.

Just realize that unlike windoze .. the X server is a front end for Linux. Meaning that for most intents and purposes the X is just a GUI over a console mode.

PPS: I have said it often enough, but most new users dont seem to want to even go back and read the posts made on this board. I find RedHat the best distribution simply cos it has become the de facto standards of Linux these days for the uninitiated. Mundrake holds NO advantage over redhat 6.2, just disadvantages.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-05-2000).]

[vitalstatistix]

I agree, RH is by far the most supported and stable distribution.
Joe if its not a major hassle downloding a big file, i wud suggest downloading RH 6.2 ISO and starting from there. You will find maximum support for RedHat as regards drivers etc.

Also, is it 7.0 or 7.0.2 ur Mandrake Distro, 7.0.2 irons out issues with install routines in 7.0

gtfx

[This message has been edited by vitalstatistix (edited 06-05-2000).]

[Joe Auman]

Is their any easy way to find the version? I have looked every where and have come up with nothing.

Would upgrading to the XFree86 4 be too much of a hassle for me to bother with? If it supports the i810 chipset, I would love it.
Yeah Static, I knew that X was just a GUI, kind of like the W3.1 to DOS (Just making a comparion for me to understand!)

Just reinstalled with X not running as you have instructed. No problem with X, but I always noticed that the user I added during the install is never there after. Is it just me or a quirk of Mandrake?

As for downloading RH, I wouldn't mind to much just so long as it has pausable downloading so I could take it in pieces. Also, where could I find this site at?

Just a side note, it's a Dell L500c. Sorry, my bad typing coming back.

Oh, forgot. I am dualbooting with W98. Used Partion Magic to partion the 13.6 gig drive into a 2 gig for Linux (128Mb swap), and then tried BootMagic, but unsuccesful because of the 1024 cylinder limitation. I'm currently using a boot disk to acess Linux.

Thanks for putting up with me, espacialy after the "I'll tell you why Linux doesn't bloody crash" incident. Maybe someday I can laught at myself about that.

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FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[This message has been edited by Joe Auman (edited 06-05-2000).]

[Statica]

Keeping it rapid enough so that you hopefully can get the system up.

I'll try to go thru queries in sequence. For some, other than give you the sortest answer, will post some links, I'd suggest that you just go thru the pages. These pages are what make Linux so userfriendly... the documentation. This way you will learn a lot more than any one person out here can tell you about, and will eliminate errors we might make..

<LI>The shortest way to find out what versions without installation or without having changed anything from the installation is simply to look up your CD! Look in ~name_of_distrib/RPMS/ and SRPMS/ directories.
Other than that rpm are an excellent referencing source [provided you have used RPMs on your system .. the answer is YES with mandrake].
Check out: www.rpm.org (http://www.rpm.org) and http://www.redhat.com/support/manuals/RHL-6.0-Manual/install-guide/manual/doc072.html
Short answer, use:
rpm -q coolprogram [-q for QUERY]
and the report would be something like
coolprogram-0.24-1

<LI>Getting Xfree86 4 .. well it might be a bit more of a problem than might be worth it, cos basically your window managers are still the old ones, and might not be fully at par. X4, is still relatively new, mind you support for video cards is still less than x3.3.6 at the moment but it has a lot more features.
A couple of ways to go about it:
Read http://www.xfree86.org/#currentrel
it will give you detailed installation notes.
The other would be to upgrade RPM's .. which can be downloaded from www.rpmfind.net (http://www.rpmfind.net)

If I were in your place, I would not upgrade xfree86 for now. I'd get my system started first before playing with it. And the shortest line is putting in the right drivers.

<LI>Hmm sounds like a quirk of Mandrake .. as I said, I used the second ISO that was released and I hated it no end. Ok the hardware support coming from RHat 6.1 was awesome, was able to load it up on my laptop too, but I never could get a clean shot at it, something always seemed to be missing. When RHat 6.2 came out, with the new kernel I switched back to Old Reliable.

<LI>Ok, regarding getting RedHat, other than getting a clean distrib. You would still run into the same problems. The reason being that the i810 gfx-chipset belongs to the [b]COMPATIBLE BUT UNSUPPORTED category for xfree86-3.x .. meaning it will work for you but support by default will be disabled.
RedHat also outlines perhaps choosing XBFCom servers .. check out: http://www.precisioninsight.com/
the Precision insight drivers are available here: ftp://ftp.precisioninsight.com/pub/precisio/XFCom/XFCom-i810-glibc2.1-1.0.0-rh61.i386.rpm
{parent: ftp://ftp.precisioninsight.com/pub/precisio/XFCom/ }

As a side bar .. this is why we are fans of the OS, there are so many alternatives and freedoms... who knows maybe you might be writing your own drivers eventually http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif

Getting back to RedHat 6.2, you could download it from a nearby mirror on the tucows network .. www.linuxberg.com (http://www.linuxberg.com)

While its ok to get the bits and pieces, if your connxn is fast enough .. try getting the ISO, most of the FTP servers will allow a resume, so you can always pick off from where you stopped. Make sure you verify it though. More mirrors and downloading instructions can be got from: http://www.redhat.com/download/howto_download.html

Again, what I would do if I were in your place is stick with mandrake and try to learn the OS, in the meantime get a book from ye old discount rack .. mind you .. the kernel may change, the hardware may change, but the basic principles dont vary much of the OS. Make sure that you like the OS to take it seriously enough. And then in a few weeks, RedHat 7 will be out [so will Mandrake 8 etc etc.] based on the much touted kernel 2.4.xx .. its a great jump, and I know I am looking forward to it. all my 2.3.xx kernels are great when it comes to new hardware.

And when you get Mandrake working go to freshmeat.net .. just get yourself apps and go nuts, you'll be amazed by how well things work.

I know this is longwinded, but contrary to really making a hash of things, you'll find that Linux is a real community.

[Statica]

And just to add .. the next versions of Linux will of course have support to all these devices of yours, including all the old favourites.

Dont get disheartened. To give you the scope of it .. the X server system is one that is used by not just Linux .. it is used by *BSD, OS/2, Solaris, SCO .. etc. etc.

If it really was that buggy and that errant so many different OS' and architectures wouldnt be using it.
<FONT SIZE=+2 COLOR="red">
ADDENDUM: </FONT>]
http://www.xfree86.org/3.3.6/i810.html


[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-06-2000).]

[mairving]

Mandrake has version 7.1 (Helium) out now. A bunch of improvements including I810 card support. It uses the Xfree86 4.0. It is a hefty 650MB download. Here is the list of new features: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/71feat.php3

Looks promising. I believe it is still a Beta version but what is there to lose. www.cheapbytes.com (http://www.cheapbytes.com) has it for $6.99

[This message has been edited by mairving (edited 06-06-2000).]

[Statica]

Again, why go for old news over?
Mandrake 7.1 is just kernel 2.2.15 .. these guys at Mundrake are really starting to turn like the good folks at Nullsoft :P~ useless upgrades. Of course its more of an attempt at remaining one step ahead of RedHat [2.2.14 kernel] pretty shameful. Especially when you consider that 2.4's are already in re-release stage..
Still a better idea to simply upgrade Xfree86 to 4.0 if that is the only issue. And if UDMA etc. is an issue [incidentally it is supported in 2.2.xx] just upgrade your kernel.

As for the rest of the features.. I find it a rather pain getting for the sake of getting the new distro, especially since all my Linux systems are production ones or on active security. I find the RedHat update tool a much more useful one.

I guess it depends on which side of the fence you are on. If you were to look at the rpm repository, the folks at Mandrake are always the first ones out the gate with upgraded packages. The downside is of course they have frequent releases due to dire instabilities, RedHat on the other hand seems to have a much more rigorous QC dept. They dont have much in the form of new versions, but when they do its usually worthwhile and highly stable.

Just thot u should be aware before you rush out for Helium.
The key is to always be savvy about the shortest upgrade path, it also will determine your cheapest [time & $] deployment solutions.
One that has turned out to be a huge + for Linux over Win2K.

PS: Mundrake obviously has the better names http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif Whoever heard of running a Zoot on your computer http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-06-2000).]

[Joe Auman]

Just for the hell of it last night, I downloaded the server from Ugoscinny site (the Intel supported drivers) and printed out the directions. I restarted to Linux, copied the files form hda1 to the root desktop (while in X), and then logged out. I followed the directions to the key, and everything went ok, except one thing. When editing the XF86Config file, I must have screwed up somewhere. (I edited in X, and then restarted) I came back to the console with "error reading XF86Config" followed by "giving up." This seems to be the only road block that I need to get past. I tried to follow all examples that were on the directions and in the XF86Config file, but somewhere I didn't do something right.

Just another thing, It also says in the login at the console "Linux Mandrake release 7.0" if this helps. No word back from the Support Team yet.

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FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[Joe Auman]

I browsed through the CD and found no documents that related to the version. When looking at the rpm's, I found one that was named mandrake-release-7.0-1mdk.noarch.rpm. When I opened it in notepad (still in windows) I found the line that said Mandrake-release-7.0. If this is not correct, I sent a letter to the MandrakeSoft support team. I should have something by tommorrow.

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FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[Joe Auman]

I got it to work!! I have up to 24 bpp color and I like it! Sound is working fine, but I have the printer to go. Here's a question. How can I edit the XF86Config file so that I can have a defult resulontion? I know from a manual I read that adding "DefaultColorDepth 16" before the subsections will enable 16 bpp on every start up. I wan Linux to start up on 640x480 but have the option to go up to 1024x768 if I need to. Any ideas on how I could do that? (reading the man pages didn't help)

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FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[Statica]

Of course it would work http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif Congrats.

Well if you were edit your conf file for Xfree86, you would come to the DISPLAY section...
suppose you were to add - more modelines like
ModeLines named "1024x768", "800x600", and "640x480"

The way Linux will shift through all the resolutions you have are with the
CTRL+ALT+ "NumberPad +" and "NumberPad-"

Of course my question is why would you want to do that, say you find that your monitor and card are well capable of taking it in at 1024x768 once, then it will work fine everytime.

Sorry for delay in getting back to you .. been working hard on getting a mutually owned [Vitalst... is in it too] Linux and OS core-support site off the ground, we'll try to keep up with the threads as much as possible.

[Joe Auman]

Well, 640x480 just fits the screen without giving me that "zoom" effect that I get with any higher settings, then I can switch to a higher setting using Ctrl-Alt-"Numberpad +" if I need to for any of those larger windows. (if this sounds toatally outrageuos, then just ignore my ramblings)I could care less of the slow responses. Your at least 10x faster than Mandrake's support email.

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.