Installing app's in Linux

[Kev']

Hi all, I'm a first time user of Linux, like this is the install day. I downloaded Redhat 6.2 and burnt a cd, then did a fresh install onto a separate drive. I'm using the install btw, with the supplied netscape 4.72. I thought I'd download a seti work unit and compare the stability and speed on this machine, which on my other drive is running NT 4 sp6. So I downloaded 2 i686 files for linux, but of course they are .tar compressed, and do you think I can figure out how to install them so they will run - no a chance. I've searched around and found some command line entries, like "make" + "install" under su, but it tells me there is nothing to do to the 686...tar file. This is all new to me, and I have tried to find and answers myself, but when you know nothing and admit to it, you know when it't time to ask those who do. This may seem a trivial question, but if I can just master the basics, the rest should come with time and use, :-)
Thanks in advance for any replies, and please don't assume I know that much - only about linux of course...

[Cymbeline]

Installing applications in Linux has always been a sticking point for most beginners.

What you have downloaded is what we call a "tarball." Here is a step-by-step method for installing such programs:

1. I will assume that you have all the developmental tools installed (like a compiler). If not, then you cannot install a tarball.

2. Set up a directory where you will setup the application. I usually use /tmp for this purpose.

3. Change your directory to the directory which you will set up the application.

4. Check your file extension. If it is *.tar, then use the command

tar -xvf <full path of file>

If your extensions are *.tgz or *.tar.gz, then use

tar -zxvf <full path of file>

This will create a directory underneath your directory that you executed the previous command. This directory will contain the files needed.

5. Change to the directory that the tar command created. It is usually the filename with the extension stripped.

6. View the README and INSTALL for installation instructions. Most of the time, for binary distributions of software (like Netscape), they will have an installer program or instructions on how to copy the files. For most source distributions, you will have to type ./configure, then make, etc. Above all, you should read the README and INSTALL files before installing the software for special instructions. YOU WILL PROBABLY NEED TO BE ROOT IN ORDER TO INSTALL AND SETUP APPLICATIONS.

7. After installing the software, if it came in a binary distribution, then keep the directory until you wish to remove the application. If it came in a source distribution, type 'make clean'. If you wish to uninstall the application, type, 'make uninstall' in the directory.

These steps will work for almost all applications. The only problems you may have is if the application was not programmed correctly and the compilation fails.

Good luck!

Cymbeline

[Kev']

Well even with simple instructions I could not get the seti uncompressed files to work. If you click of them they do nothing, religiously I followed the given instructions, uncompressed the .tar files, and read the help files, but the instructions were about how to run the program after it had successfully installed - how helpful is that - NOT! I'm back in NT now, and struck by how the machine is faster, same resolutions (linux could not use all of the vid's mem) and I'm running ultra2 scsi instead of mode4 ide, but that should not make such a difference to text and web-brousing. I admit I don't understand this compiling thing, or source. I find myself drawing parallels between Windoze and Linux and their associated compression and install methods - but I guess they are miles apart. Linux is more like what DOS was, lots of command line instructions. The man pages etc. aren't very helpful, the questions I find myself asking just don't appear in faq's etc. I suspect it is a case of, you should know this, it's self evident - well it is if you have access or know people who use the software - otherwise it's operation (setup, installs, etc.) is vague, to say the least.

********************************************

So that is a first time users observation, and I still can't get seti to work, maybe I should just debug the hdd and install dos - or wait for Linux 10...

********************************************

Any other suggestions on my plight, it could be to do with the ./configure, then make, etc. but I have no idea what that entails, or if indeed it is relevant to the files I am trying to run. I guess I need to hear from some one who has run seti on their linux box, and has figured out how to do it.

[Cymbeline]

Click? What are you using?

I'll get the SETI program myself and try it. It could be one of the oddball programs that require a special installation procedure.

Cymbeline

[Cymbeline]

No wonder some people want to boycott SETI@home. :-(

The SETI@home program is one of the oddball programs that is a binary distribution that has no installer or anything to help you install it. What you will have to do is to use tar to extract the program in the directory that will hold the subdirectory which SETI@home will be located. The subdirectory will have your executable file.

Programs like SETI@home, who do not release source distributions, are the most confusing to install, in my opinion.

Cymbeline

[Statica]

If you arent comfy with the console of Linux or working with tarballs SIMPLIFY .. check out:
http://www.rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/contrib/libc6/i386/setiathome-2.4-1.i386.html

Download Ye Olde RPM, run thru Kpackage or GnoRPM etc etc etc. or again console.

Cymbeliene thanx for the tarball howto .. very comprehensive and right..

NOTE - 1: Do NOT use RPMs for mission critical servers/apps/etc unless you cant help it at all, this is one of those learning thru experience things you pick up. LEARN to use tarballs and make your own installations, u will be happy that u learnt it
NOTE - 2: the rpm repository is a fabulous place to get your RPMs www.rpmfind.net (http://www.rpmfind.net) .. just make sure u get it for the right distrib and glibc versions etc.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 08-13-2000).]

[Statica]

On another note, Kev'
The beauty of the Linux install is that it will whip the NT for less resources; without having touched it .. now as and when you learn to play ith CFLAGS etc .. u will discover that the correct CFLAGS will put the default settings to shame.

[Cymbeline]

Another good thing about Linux installation of applications is that you will actually know what is going on, unlike in NT.

I would agree with Ex-Static-Cling on RPMs....don't use them unless you have no other choice. RPMs are Red Hat's proprietary packaging format, and the RPM program itself is one of those oddball programs to install if you don't have Red Hat. (It took me almost an hour to install it on mine.)

Cymbeline

[Kev']

Thanks for the advice guys, I'm slowly getting there, had seti running (at last) for a few minutes, but only from the console and cumbersome changing of directories and calling stupid long file names every time I want to run the program. But it's a big step for me, and I tried the RPM thing, using kpacker, I agree it is almost as easy to do it the harder way, doing it manually - it's so like working with DOS and seeing what is going on compared to the windows / apple way. Thankfully I am conversent with the DOS way of thinking, and always found the windows method to be a bit "blinker" like. Still as I get older I get lazier, is there anyway to setup an icon on the desktop to run my application now I know how to install it - just! Don't worry I'm taking notes here :-) I'd like to point a "shortcut" to it. I tried setting up a new application link to it, pointing it to the directory where seti lives, and entering in the commands that I used manually, but the shortcut when you click on it does nothing. Can I do what I am trying to do? If so, what am I missing - apart from the point!
I feel a bit like a toddler taking their first steps, but first steps are important ones. I do have other questions, but I'll try and walk before I ask how to fly.
Thanks again for you help guys, it's making a Linux man out of me despite myself :-)

Kev'

P.S this was written in Netscape, running Redhat 6.2, KDE 1.1.2. and some luck.

[Statica]

Part 1: wrt to the long names etc; I dont know if you are aware of it, but the tab key is an autocomplete key .. as in if you were to do the following operation:
pico /home/personal/setiathome-2.4.1-12/setiathome.conf
typing: pi[TAB] /h[TAB]/p[TAB]/s[TAB]/s[TAB].conf
and so forth .. if there are more than one entry with the character before the tab, u can be more specific by typing out another character and then hitting TAB .. tab twice will also list out the options available.

Regards: KDE .. hmm I dont have the gooey's http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/smile.gif; so u'd have to wait for someone to make a qualified reply. However, try right clicking on the desktop and NEW > launcher and under properties/commandline .. enter the command u want to run...

Cheers

NB: If you get addicted to the TAB, the dosprompt screens start to look real ugly [as has happened to me] http://www.pcmech.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I guess you touched upon an important problem; training oneself to think posix in spite of oneself .. people have been so conditioned to Windoze telling them what they should have and what they should run; that they dont appreciate the freedom of choice and the choice of freedom it gives

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kev':
<SUB>Thanks for the advice guys, I'm slowly getting there, had seti running (at last) for a few minutes, but only from the console and cumbersome changing of directories and calling stupid long file names every time I want to run the program. But it's a big step for me, and I tried the RPM thing, using kpacker, I agree it is almost as easy to do it the harder way, doing it manually - it's so like working with DOS and seeing what is going on compared to the windows / apple way. Thankfully I am conversent with the DOS way of thinking, and always found the windows method to be a bit "blinker" like. Still as I get older I get lazier, is there anyway to setup an icon on the desktop to run my application now I know how to install it - just! Don't worry I'm taking notes here :-) I'd like to point a "shortcut" to it. I tried setting up a new application link to it, pointing it to the directory where seti lives, and entering in the commands that I used manually, but the shortcut when you click on it does nothing. Can I do what I am trying to do? If so, what am I missing - apart from the point!
I feel a bit like a toddler taking their first steps, but first steps are important ones. I do have other questions, but I'll try and walk before I ask how to fly.
Thanks again for you help guys, it's making a Linux man out of me despite myself :-)

Kev'

P.S this was written in Netscape, running Redhat 6.2, KDE 1.1.2. and some luck.[/SUB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 08-14-2000).]

[Cymbeline]

To put "shortcuts" in KDE:

1. Right click on the desktop. Select "New", then "Application".

2. Type in the name of the "shortcut" in the prompt that appears.

3. In the window that appears next, go to Permissions and set the permissions that you would like to set for this "shortcut". Typically the default settings are fine, but if you are really paranoid, you could set it so that only you could read it.

4. In the Execute tab, in the Execute section, type the FULL PATH NAME to the program which you will be running. The next section allows you to type a name for the window. If your program is one that runs in a terminal and not on the desktop, select "Run in terminal" and enter any desired settings for the terminal, if needed.

5. The last tab I have no idea what it is for. :-(

KDE is a nice window manager. I can't want for KDE 2.0 to come out. :-)

Cymbeline

[Kev']

Thanks for for all the advice, I'm more than happy with my Linux install, if it weren't for you guys I'd probably be muttering to my self darkly about how useful Linux was to me - NOT... But sure ain't the case here. I got the app's on the destop to work, after a while I figured out how to do it right, seti has to run in terminal mode, and the -verbose switch does not seem to work for some reason - i.e. seti runs without telling you anything until it is finished. Interestingly Linux does a work unit about 1.5 to 3 hours!!! faster than NT did, and NT was really tweaked. Also my way overclocked system has only crashed once, and that was a hardware issue - NT would crash 4-5 times a day, minimum. So my next steps are networking (Samba?) modem sharing (what program is good for that?) and performance tweaking (stupid me!). I saw mentioned Dflags, what are those? and how can I utilise them to enhance performance. There are obviously other tweaks I can use, can anyone shed some light on them.
Thanks,
Kev'

[Cymbeline]

For the networking you're talking about (using the SMB protocol), Samba would be the program to use. If you use Samba, I would suggest that you read ALL the documentation and use SWAT (Samba Web Administration Tool) to set up your SMB server. I lost a lot of time setting up Samba because I didn't read all of the documentation.

For stuff like modem sharing, you can use the kernel's built-in firewalling support or IP Masquerading support in conjunction with the program ipchains. You will usually have to recompile your kernel to use these. I would suggest reading the IP-Masquerade HOWTO and the Kernel-HOWTO.

Performance tweaking is something I don't mess around with. :-(

Cymbeline

[Xayd]

Yeah Kev, that's one thing you'll notice quite a bit, coming from Windoze/MAC's like I did. Apps executed from X "seem" to run slower, but in actuality, they don't really. Desktops are desktops, they are memory and processor hogging beasts. But, the desktop here is just eye candy. For apps that aren't bound to X, they can run independently of the graphical interface, and will perform much better. SETI being a prime example.

Xayd