Cheap RELIABLE System?

[Matt Phelps]

I'm intending to build a cheap system for my sister to use at University and I'm looking for some quick opinions on the following, especially ease of assembly!

I need to make sure that it will be solid and reliable. I can't build her something that needs constant fiddling with after it is built (drivers, jumpers etc) because she won't have a clue how to do all that. This will just be used for word processing and simple college work - not games or any other applications.

AMD Duron 1000 Mhz
Shuttle AK31 AT100
Maxtor 740X 40Gb 7200rpm

....and an old nVidia TNT2 32mb graphics card which I have lying around, plus all the extra bits like CD drive/floppy etc. I think the Shuttle board has onboard sound?

Any opinions would be very useful to me. I need this one to be rock solid!

[HAL9000]

You want simple and reliable, instead of going with the AMD, look at a Celeron on an ASUS TUSL2-C (there are other choices that some other members will make, this is just the board I have the most experience with). The AMD's are fine for those that want to fiddle to get things just right, but if she doesn't know how to do any of that, save yourself the hassle.

[Matt Phelps]

Well I have only built socket A systems before so I would prefer to stick to what I know. The Celeron is a bit old hat now isn't it?

[Andrewxcav]

yeah, it has onboard sound, but I ahve tto agree with Hal on this one. :)

[edrod13]

I don't think celerons are getting or are considered old. They are really nice and fit perfert into people's budget. They are up to 1.3Ghz I think or that could be the Tualatin, but that and an ASUS TUSL2-c or even a Shuttle AE25 would be really sweet, not to mention that you could use stock cooling and you could give your sister a Pc instead of a lawnmower. :D

Edrod13

[whr2206]

Originally posted by Matt Phelps
Well I have only built socket A systems before so I would prefer to stick to what I know. The Celeron is a bit old hat now isn't it?

well first of all I know you'd lie t stick to what you know, but a build with a celeron cant get much easier. I found my firt build which was a celeron alot easy to do, than my second build where I used a tbird, and I had gained alot of useful information after my celeron. Celeron 1.2ghz I dont think its old, and it a perfect budget chip. And with the tusl2-c, its almost the most realiable thing you can get other than a intel board.

[RJ]

Who cares whether it is old or not as long as it performs well and fits your needs ??
BTW, tualatin based celerons aren't old, they're fairly new. . newer than the durons, just to let you know.. .

And there's no difference in putting the pieces together. The mainboard will have a socket 370, and you insert the celeron the same way as a duron into socket a. The rest (AGP, PCI, IDE. . ) are the same.

So if you only have built socket a systems before: Time for something new ;)

For the stuff she wants I recommend a board with the Intel BX chipset.
And yes, the BX *is* and OLDER chipset, but it's ROCK SOLID. And that's what you're looking for, isn't it ?
Okay, let's say the Abit BM-6 (socket 370, BX chipset, jumperless).
Then a cheap celeron (500 MHz, or 600. . they're really more than fast enough), then you need plain SDRAM. . it is also really cheap.
Then you can add the rest (graphics sound etc.)

HTH

RJ

[Computer Hobbyist]

If your parameters are "cheap, reliable, and easy to assemble" you might consider the following:

Intel BoxD815EGEWLU --Motherboard - $107.00
900 Celeron Retail --Processor -- 58.00
Enlight Micro ATX case
Model EN-7150AJ (145) --Case-- 38.00
256 meg PC133 Crucial --Memory-- 83.00
3Com USR V90 56K --Modem-- 36.00
40gb IBM 60GXP --Hard drive-- 81.00
Sony CD-Rom --CD-Rom-- 28.00
Teac 3.5 floppy --Floppy-- 9.00
mouse and keyboard 30.00

Subtotal 470.00 +shipping

All that you would need to add would be the monitor and operating system of your choice. I am suggesting the boxed Intel because it includes video, audio, and lan connections. I am suggesting the micro size because it is going to be in a dorm room. I am suggesting the 900 Celeron because that's where the prices break sharpest and you are only talking about a machine to handle college chores. You could go cheaper, but that entails greater risk. The entire thing including monitor could be had for about $600.00.

CH

[lil Jimmie]

I also have to give a thumbs up on the ASUS TUSL-C boards along with the 1.2 celeron, the one I built has been ROCK SOLID.

[homer15]

why go all out if she's just going to do word processing? you could probably build a real cheap system for under 500 (INCLUDING SHIPPING!!!). it seems like the setup you posted would work just fine. and you wouldn't even have to get a 7200 rpm harddrive, you could get 5400. believe me, if she has no clue how to fix it, she's not going to notice the miniscule amount of difference in access time.

[Matt Phelps]

Okay thanks for the advice. The dollar figures don't really mean much to me but I'll have a think about the Celeron instead.

The thing is I want this to be a system that she can keep for a while so although I want cheap I don't really want underpowered - if you see what I mean.

Lots of food for thought though. Thanks.

[HAL9000]

Well, a Celeron 1000 is hardly underpowered, and if you want to spend a couple extra bucks, the Celeron 1300's with the Tualatin core (256k cache) rock along quite nicely.

BTW, I have an 1100 Celeron in my second machine and it keeps up with Quake III, Unreal Tournament, and Return to Castle Wolfenstein quite nicely.

[whr2206]

hey, I know this is kind fo off the subject, but can you put a 1.3ghz celeron in an Asus tusl2-c??

[lil Jimmie]

Originally posted by whr2206
hey, I know this is kind fo off the subject, but can you put a 1.3ghz celeron in an Asus tusl2-c??

I think the board supports up to 1.3 ghz.

[Alfie]

The Duron board would support all of AMD's cpus,meaning at a future date you could go even higher,the Celeron boards support Celerons,whether the PIII will go any higher,I don't know.
Both systems are easy to assemble and as far as tweaking the Duron involves no more than the Celeron.
It might be adviseable to get a motherboard that has full upgrade paths as is what is offered with a AMD board as opposed to the rather limited path of the Celeron.

[HAL9000]

Yes, the Celeron will probably top out around 1.7Ghz, so not as much of an upgrade path, but a system that is being built for someone that knows absolutely nothing about a computer, the Celeron is the way to go for hassle free running instead of tweaking here and there on the AMD. If it's just gonna be surfin' and word processing, the upgrade path is a very minimal concern.

[Colonel Sanders]

I'd have to lean toward a Duron. I had (keyword, had) no problems with my setup, untill I installed Win98FE and ran windoze update to "update"(cripple) my on-board sound. Other than that, if I were building a new PC I don't think I would be able to tell you wethet it were AMD or Intel(untill doing some looking, but you get my point). You've put togother AMD systems, you know how ~hard~ to assemble they are.

However there is the fallen-HSF = Dead CPU problem, but I seriously doubt that could happen. It was a real B*&$# to get off my Orb to clean and remount it.

I must also go with the crowd in saying Intel is older and probbably better it some ways, a Celeron would be nice. I think both are equally reliable. AMD will probbably be cheaper(maybe not much cheaper...) than Intel.

Your choice, not the forums choice.

Logan

[Computer Hobbyist]

I continually hear this stuff about an upgrade path. How many people, outside the fanatic few who frequent PCMech, swap out processors without changing boards? And memory? I think that for most people the "upgrade path" consideration is overrated. Technology changes so fast that by the time Matt's sister wants to buy a new processor, she will want a new computer.

CH

[HAL9000]

Good point, the Intel's have the socket and/or RAM changes, while the AMD's with the VIA chipset go through the KT133/133A, KT266/266A, and now the KT333 which I'm sure the 333A will be just around the corner. Sure, maybe a better upgrade path, but you're going to want the swap out the board (and possibly RAM) anyway to max out performance.

Looking at how this particular machine is to be used, upgrade path should be a low priority.

[Reedimus]

I'd definitely go with the duron. for most people outside of hobbyists upgrade path isn't an issue because they'll just go buy a brand new piece of crap to replace their aging piece of crap. they are uneducated in this, but not stupid. if you build her system and tell her it won't need to be replaced when it gets old, she just needs to give you a call and you'll tell her what cpu to buy for it, she will understand and see the value in this. and I think those on the board agree that the duron has the brightest upgrade path. so I would suggest go for the upgrade path, save your sister some money in the future. not to mention the fact that you stated socket A is within your comfort zone. why leave it then?

[Colonel Sanders]

I'm pretty sure you can find a slow Duron to fit into a board that will support and XP, she will get used to Duron preformance. When it gets slow, she will see XP preformance. Then you will need the next board. True VIA gave us the KT133 chip, but that was wasted PCB. PC133 RAM on a chip with a 266MHz FSB? Then the KT266A, has lasted a while and will run the oldest Duron on up to fastes XP, right? Or the KT333. Wait a second, 333? The latest AMD is still laging behind at 266. Sure, I will probbably buy a board with 333(XP333-R or something with KT333) but I don't need it unless I plan to OC.

Logan

[glc]

The system that Computer Hobbyist proposes is almost exactly what our builder offers for an "entry level" computer. It would be ROCK solid and NO hassles, reliable as anything on the market. Just make sure that the modem is a hardware model, not a Winmodem, and get rid of the IBM hard drive and put a WD or a real Maxtor in it. Put it together, install the OS, run the Intel Express Installer off the provided CD to install the chipset, audio, and video drivers, install the modem drivers, and presto - a computer. I would recommend Windows 2000 Pro for the best "no hassle" OS.

[HAL9000]

I agree with one slight exception. It has been my experience that inexperienced users get a little overwhelmed by Win2k, and this runs into problems. While still very new, I would lean towards XP Home Edition setup with the classic Win9x interface.

[Matt Phelps]

It's going to have to be Win98 I'm afraid. I'm doing this on a budget and I can't afford to splash out on a new OS.

I have XP on my own machine but as we all know, Microsoft have put a stop to multiple installs on extra machines. :(

[Computer Hobbyist]

Matt

I think people might consider me a little radical, but could I suggest instead of recycling an old copy of Windows98, you might consider spending $30 or so on a copy of Mandrake 8.2 and $50 or so on a copy of StarOffice 6.0 and loading them into your sister's computer. I know, its Linux, and not Microsoft, but she is going to a college and she might as well become acquainted with Unix commands, and maybe some of the people who use it. Anyway if its set up correctly, she might never notice that she doesn't have a copy of Windows on board,and you didn't spend the cost of the computer on an operating system and an office suite. She certainly will have better security from prying eyes.

Just a thought, but I have been using Linux as a desktop at home for several months now and find it usable, reliable and cheap. :cool:

CH

[HAL9000]

That's kind of an interesting concept.

[Matt Phelps]

I think anything other than windows would just over complicate and blow her mind to be honest. She needs it to be compatiable with the PC's they have at University and those certainly won't be Linux based. I don't think she will ever have any need for Unix knowledge - I'm not sure I do! ;)

I don't like win98 at all but it's the only option I have. I'd install XP if I had the choice.

[Computer Hobbyist]

I'm not trying to sell the idea. Just a thought.

Most colleges use Unix as their OS of choice. StarOffice is fully compatable with MS Office packages so document compatablity is not really an issue. You can set up KDE so your sister rarely if ever has to enter terminal mode. KDE looks a lot like Windows, and if you set up the icons properly she might not notice the difference. Linux is far more stable than Windows98 which likes to crash every so often. In fact it is as stable or more stable than anything Microsoft has ever released. Security is much stronger than Windows98. Since there are fewer viruses designed to attack Linux, the system is less likely to get sick. If I could easily replace the accounting and timekeeping software in my business with a Linux based versions, I would dump Windows altogether.

Get StarOffice 6.0 as opposed to 5.2. It is much nicer and sets up on the desktop just like your MS Office suite.

Just don't see any reason to pay the Microsoft tax unless necessary. On the other hand, I am not in favor of violating anybody's license.

For a person on a tight budget, $200 for XPHome edition and the cost of MS Office (even the student edition) is expensive.

CH

[LawyerRon]

Go with the Celeron on a Genuine Intel motherboard. Most stable and carefree system available.

[Toaster]

Hello folks,
The reliability of Intel on Intel is unmatched. Couple this with Linux and you have a fast, reliable AND secure system.
Being in a University, that University WILL have certain guidelines users must follow. If you use a Micky$oft O/S, in particular XP (XtraPain), "spyware" removers should be considered. For a word processor and a "safe" browser, Mozilla and Linux are a combination thats hard to beat.
The "Celitin" (Tualitin Celeron) will overtake AMD CPUs soon if AMD can't manage to break the 2ghz barrier. Now, the "Celitin" is available at 1.3ghz with 1.5 waiting in the wings. The Intel "roadmap" suggests that the "Celitin" and the Tualitin PIII will stay about 1ghz behind the Intel flagship P4. This meaning that, a P4 at 2.2/2.3 means that Celeitins and the PIII will run upto 1.2/1.3.
This seems to be the Intel roadmap to reduce the chances of their cheaper lines competing with the top end P4. (this may not be fact but indications suggest this)
While the BX chipset is a fine chipset, ultra stable, ultra reliable and easiest to configure, the performance is now below other Intel chipsets. Exception being "dualy" BX boards occupied by 2 processors (PIII). Under Linux, a Dualy PIII is something to be rekoned with.
Still, cheap, reliable and easy to configure means Intel on Intel.
Many Intel CPUs function well without CPU fans as their heat outputs are far below that of AMD.
A "BX" class board mated with a PIII/Celeron in the 800mhz range is VERY cheap and runs VERY well.
It all depends on use and the type of "that" use. Simple word processing and "web work" on a school lan suggests Intel on Intel on Linux.

[Matt Phelps]

It won't be on a LAN - it's a stand alone home PC.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Originally posted by Matt Phelps
It won't be on a LAN - it's a stand alone home PC.

Is she living at home? Nearly every college dorm room in North America and Europ has a LAN connection.

CH

[Matt Phelps]

She's not in North America or Europe! :)

She's living in a house in the UK, not at home but not in halls of residence either. You only get a place in halls in your first year of University (and occasionally your final year sometimes) but this is her second year and so she is renting.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Originally posted by Matt Phelps
She's not in North America or Europe! :)

She's living in a house in the UK, not at home but not in halls of residence either. You only get a place in halls in your first year of University (and occasionally your final year sometimes) but this is her second year and so she is renting.

That's cool. I didn't know that about Universities in the UK. You learn a lot reading PCMech. :D

I am going to be spending a few weeks in England next summer (first time my family has taken a vacation outside North America.) It seems my 13 year old daughter is going to a soccer (football) camp, and is going to play in a couple of tournaments. (Something about one of them being held in a place called Manchester. She's all excited about playing in some old soccer stadium, but I don't know the details.) Anyway, there is no way mom and I are about to let a 13 year old fly British Airways alone. Anything I need to know? Food I shouldn't eat? Etc.

CH

[Matt Phelps]

Food you shouldn't eat?!? LOL! It's not Baghdad! :rolleyes: :) No need to boil the water either!

I'm guessing she is talking about playing at Old Trafford, which is the home of Manchester United. She must be pretty damn good at Footie if she's been invited to play there, Man U are the top club in the Premiership at the moment.

[Computer Hobbyist]

My daughter can play a little.

Mostly we are proud of her music, math and other abilities, but at 13 she is also very social. After getting home from practice tonight and finishing her homework, she put a phone to her ear and logged on to instant messenger. She's a good kid. We are very proud of her.

The rest of the world doesn't know it yet, but soccer is about the fastest growing sport in the United States. One of these years we are going to surprise a lot of people in the World Cup. I've been watching the English Premier League on satellite and having watched our local professional league team for the last several years, I must say that it is going to take several years for us to catch up, but when we do--watch out.

So I won't have to boil the water. That's a relief.:D

Hope your sister enjoys her computer.

BTW I think the statium you named sounds the same as I read in the material we received. There was definately talk of Manchester United in the materials.

CH

[ssahl]

I have to agree, the Celeron on a BX board is the way to go. I just built
an Athlon 1.2Ghz system and I love it, before that I had built a Celeron on a
BX board system and I let my sister have that one, being the geek that I am it
was to stable... after installing 98 on it and one reboot I was done, no extra
loading of drivers, no changing IRQ's or updating anything, just reboot and all done, and after using it for about a month it didnt even have enough problems to
keep me from getting bored. It did pretty much the same thing every time I turned it on. As far as speed and upgrade ability, once you better just one little thing on a computer system, everything else is sure to follow. This setup is so easy that you can fill every PCI slot on the motherboard (that you want to) have your OS disk in the CD-ROM drive post go into the bios make changes setup hard drive and proceed to install windows just like that, it's hard to get this setup not to work. Anyway my personal thoughts are that newer is only a little better but alot more money. Example... a new Pentium III 1.*Ghz cpu is not twice as fast as my Celeron 466Mhz socket 370 cpu that I have. Faster yes of coarse, twice as fast, no way. Twice as much yes, and then some.

[bigpuma]

I'll add another vote for the celeron on an Asus Tusl2-C, I set this up for my father in December and I have yet to go back to fiddle with it. He loves it and it works great for word processing, Internet, which is all he really uses it for.

BP