My dishonest compitition

[BFD Deadeye]

In this small town of 2500, I only have one competitior. They have been around for years, and I have been officially open for 1 1/2. I'm working on a clients machine, that was built by my competition 15 months ago. They are having virus problems. I went to update their subscription (with their permission) for Norton AV that was PRE-INSTALLED by my competitor (they never recieved a disk) and charged in full (for the software) to my client.

Well, they have Norton AV alright...running on Windows ME...and it's "Norton Anti-virus for Windows 95". Yep, you read it right. They got charged full price for software that was outdated 4 or 5 years ago. So between that, and the fact they never got a disk of the software that THEY PAID FOR, leads me to believe my competitor is pirating software, or at the very least, installing multiple copies of the same single piece of software on multiple machines.

What should I do? Do I blow the whistle on this company? If so, how do I do it? I would hate to ruin anyones business or livlihood (they employ 4 or 5). But I can't sit idley by and watch people get taken to the cleaners, either. This company has been inflating the cost of hardware by nearly 100%, (good example: 10GB WD HD for $250...yes 10GB, not 100GB) and now I find out they do this too. Who are the proper authorities to bring into this?

[SARGE]

If you know someone is ripping off customers and using improper software, you're just as guilty if you sit on it.

[BFD Deadeye]

I've thought about that. But I am uncertain on a few things here. First, I don't put together that many systems, I spend my time and make more money troubleshooting. If they paid for software that was pre-installed, by a local company, shouldn't they get the disks/manuals? The OS is legit, they have the sticker on the case.

It just seems fishy that the Norton version is that old! It wasn't updateable from day 1! Norton certainly doesn't support AV software that is that old, do they? I could find no mention of it on their support site.

Even before this company was my competition, I never did trust them. They have always seemed shady to me...like they knew nobody in Dinkytown USA would EVER check up on them. And they're probably right. And like I mentioned before, they're hardware has always been outragously priced (which is why my client base is growing).

But before I start accusing/investigating, I need to know if this is even worth persuing. It just seems like these people prey on the ignorance of the computer newbie, plus the loyalty of people in this small town, supporting them, a local business. The owner is a respected man, and is on the City Council. The same City Council that appointed my wife to be the City Judge.

I am really in a bind.

[SARGE]

Originally posted by BFD Deadeye

The owner is a respected man, and is on the City Council. The same City Council that appointed my wife to be the City Judge.

I am really in a bind.

Would he be "respected" if your suspicions became facts and everyone knew about the ripoffs? Crooks come in all flavors. If you're living in Mayberry ;) , even if you had the cold, hard facts, you'd be the bad guy. Yes, you are in a bind.

[troysvihl]

Well, if a business is screwing people over, it doesn't matter how many people it employs. So don't even take that into consideration when weighing your options.

Nortel and the customer are the ones that have been harmed, not you. So that puts you in a bad situation from the start. And being in a small community only compounds the problem. If you do something about this on your own, you're going to look like a snoop or someone that buts into other people's business.

Becaus of that, I wouldn't go to the authorities about it. There aren't really any "authorities" when it comes to copyright violations. The local sheriff could care less. The FBI sometimes has copyright stings, but that's for big-time copying rings. They're not going to be too interested in that guy.

So that leaves just two parties you can tell: Norton and the customer.

I don't agree with Sarge that you have an obligation to rat out every bad guy you come across. However, you do have an obligation to your customer to tell him the complete truth about his system. Fully expalin how he got ripped off. You don't even have to mention the other store by name, just tell him what he should have gotten for his money. This particular customer may not do anything about it. He might just shrug it off, and eat the costs. But eventually, you'll come across some guy that will get plenty pissed and will do something about it.

Another interested party may be Norton. I'm sure they would be very interested in knowing about this kind of crap. An anonymous letter or phone call to their legal department is all it should take.

Personally, I think you're in a win-win situation. If this guy stays in business, his dishonesty is going to drive business your way. (especially in a small community where word gets around quick) If he doens't stay in business, then you get all his old business. Either way, you win.

[HAL9000]

What I simply do with my dishonest competition is to educate the user that comes into my shop. Never directly badmouth the competition as it makes yourself look bad. Educate them in how little it actually costs. For example, the fines of getting busted with pirated software VS actually buying a legal copy. The cost of running that old pirated Norton and having to pay you to clean up the system VS puchasing the up to date product. Software can be expensive, but service and fines can be even more expensive.

[wedor]

Many OEM's don't supply disks anymore, I just picked up a new Dell laptop for someone and it has no AV disks with it. When I installed a group of system's last year the motherboards came with the same type of AV many systems come with, a limited time trial version that you can then upgrade in a few months, all on the MB CD, no seperate disks. I don't know that you have any "proof" of anything here, they may seem shady and may well be, but I agree with Hal, you have nothing to gain by speaking up in this case and much to lose.

[BFD Deadeye]

Thanks guys,
I have decided to just be honest with my client. Tell them what they got, and that it was ridiculous that they had to pay for out of date software. If they want to, they can confront my competition. That way, I am not at fault.

[SARGE]

Originally posted by troysvihl

I don't agree with Sarge that you have an obligation to rat out every bad guy you come across.

I didn't say that.

KMA!!

[troysvihl]

Well, you said he's just as guilty. What's the difference?

And what's KMA mean?

[lil Jimmie]

KMA= Kiss My Arse

[troysvihl]

lol

[SARGE]

Troy, you know there's a difference. The key word is "if".

KMA = kiss my ass :p

[troysvihl]

Well I disagree with that too. Just knowing about it doens't obligate him to do anything about it.

[PardeGT]

Your work, prices and honesty will get you much further than trying to directly turn this guy in. This is my opinion and also my philosophy.

Telling your customer will make him aware and keep him as a customer if he cares about what you are telling him. If he doesn't care about the copyright part then your prices most likely will bring him back from what you stated about your competitor. In turn, him and other customers will refer you and your customer base will grow. Some may care about the copyright issues but many seem to be put their imphasis on greenbacks.

Never ever directly bad talk your competitor in saying how he does this or that. Walk around it and just tell them the honesties of the situation and they will figure out what is implied about the competitor.

Good luck with your business.

[SARGE]

Eventually you may win all the customers, but only after they've been screwed by the crook. While keeping mum about it, as Troy suggests, may seem the best approach (living in a small town), it allows the crook to continue pirating, IF that's what he's doing. I guess it depends on whose ox is getting gored. No telling what else the guy is up to, being a politician. Perhaps someone should leak the facts to his next opponent.

[jamesrpm]

It may only takes one call to Microsoft to clear the air.It happened to a small guy here who was undercutting by pirating software. Microsoft just made him buy full lic. for all the systems he couldn't prove he had sold legal copies for.leveled the playing field for the other guys in town. BTW when they came down they checked everyone in town who was on thier list of OEMs.

[SARGE]

Originally posted by glc
Thats just plain wrong. I would report the vendor to Microsoft for selling machines with unlicensed (technically pirated) copies of Windows on them.

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?threadid=13514&highlight=illegal

[Blankman]

It's a purely a Montana thing. The two main hardware dealers in this town have ripped people off constantly. Myself included. One has even been the target of a class action lawsuit. Funny thing is, all the bad things you usually hear about Montanans are about people who moved here, not about the locals themselves, except I must say when it comes to businesses. Businesses in this state are ruthless I believe. You oughta see what happens when larger stores that have lower prices come in, they are fought back with a vengance.

[wedor]

No one said he was pirating MS software, just maybe Norton. And I still say that no disk does not necessarily prove piracy.

[homer15]

so, the customer paid a huge price for software that is no longer supported, and everyone here is saying to keep your mouth shut? that doesn't seem right. a whole community is getting ripped off by a company, and you're just going to stand by and let it happen? these people might try to run a home business or something on a machine that they bought, and then they might lose everything because you didn't do anything.
i understand how small town politics work, and shooting your mouth off about this might end up hurting you, but don't just let it happen. investigate it further. ask around; see if everyone has been shorted a disk. or maybe there's some other software that's not being included. do some research, and if this place is pully shady stuff on your small town, drop some anonymous messages to the authorities. there are authorities that investigate this kind of stuff, the better business bureau would be a good place to start.

[HAL9000]

Nope... I don't think one should keep their mouth shut, but do as I suggested above. In a very tactful manner, educate them about software, licensing, etc, and let them come to their own conclusion that the competitor is dishonest. When you do it that way, they'll never go back and at the same time, trust everything you say.

[moparacer]

Take my advice from business dealings for the past 14 years. Inform the client of the possible software problem, and let them handle it with the vendor who supplied and charged them. You will make more trouble for yourself then its worth if you get in the middle.....Satisfied customers will tell a couple people, dissatisfied customers will tell 100...........

[wedor]

Agreed.