Motor Oil

[SARGE]

Seems we know about everyone's beard and how tall we are. I'd like some opinions from graybeards on choice of oil. I've always used Valvoline in all vehicles. On the diesel bucket truck I noticed when we used a regular 15w-40 brand it would drink the stuff. When I switched to Rotella 15w-40 (made for diesels) the consumption was nada. No one can cite the reason. On regular brands (Valvoline, Pennzoil, etc) some folks say it all comes out of the same barrel; they just stick their brand on it.

Opinions, and what do you prefer?

[Christoph]

Nothing special - $15.95 standard oil inlcuding change and filter at Grease Monkey or Goodyear. As I am not driving high performance vehicles or do 'racing' with my car standard will do it!

Christoph

[HAL9000]

I used to use the house brand oil when getting oil changed until I bought my first new car. When I took it on a vacation and put 2000Km on it in 4 days of mostly highway driving, it used just over 1 litre of oil. I switched to Quaker State and the next trip, it didn't use anything. It's also a bit higher in the detergents used in it which really became noticable when I bought a 1988 Mustang with 113,000Km on it. The oil was pretty black, but over the course of a few changes, it was cleaner each time when it came due for the next change. At 247,000Km (before it was totalled), you could pull the dipstick before the oil change and it was so clear, you had to move it around in the light to see it. When I had my beater wagon, I think I put about 200,000Km on it, but I abused the heck out of that car. I change the oil maybe three times and added it when it needed it, but it was always Quaker State. I sold it off and it's still going around. I saw the guy a while ago and it rolled over 400,000Km. I'm noticing this in my Sunfire that I bought used last October. When it's time for a change, the oil is at the point where it's starting to get hard to see on the dipstick instead of being clearly visible because of the dirt. It costs me an additional $5 on the oil change, but I think it's worth it.

[Kubie]

Sarge,
Over the years, I too had used different oils. The problem with a diesel motor oil in a gas powered vehicle, is that the additives are different. Each type of engine produces different contaminates and the additives take care of it.
There are a few oil refiners out there that do make oil of different brands, however, the formula is supplied by the brand name seller.
An example would be New Holland 15-40 diesel motor oil. New Holland supplied the formula, Pennzoil mixes it up for them.
Carl

BTW, I use Castrol 10-30 in my pick-up and car.

[Redo40]

I too use Castrol 10w30 in everything but my wifes car. She uses Pennzoil 10w30.

[juppy]

I use Pennzoil 10W40 in my '85 Mustang but that's just mainly because that was the brand that was in the car when we bought it. Didn't want to change because I've always been told changing oil brands will sometimes make a car START using oil if it didn't already; don't know how much truth there is in this. The rest of my family uses Mystic; I think its something like JT8....not sure. I figure if I do ever change it will be to Mobil 1 or maybe Quaker State.

[GerBa]

I began using Quaker State in my cars some years ago, don't change it as often as I should but they are still going. Guess I'll keep using it though I have wondered about those oils claimed to be for high milage cars. Might give one of them a try.

[PardeGT]

I use Havoline DuraBlend in my truck and my fiancee's car - and of course Fram filters. . . :cool:

[lil Jimmie]

For my pick-up I use Quaker State 10-30w Synthetic motor oil changed every 3K and for the wife’s car I use Car Quest 10-30w which is produced by Valvoline. For racing application I use Pennzoil High Performance 50w. At the shop where I work we use the Car Quest brand and for our customers that have high performance engines we use Mobil One Synthetic. Fram Filters are installed on all the above.

[glc]

I used to use and sell Amsoil synthetic - but now in my beater I just use whatever the quick oil change joint puts in - 5w30 or 10w30 whatever - Pennzoil, Citgo, I'm not fussy. If I have to add between changes I buy the same stuff they used, I still don't like mixing brands in the same crankcase load. If I had a new car, I would definitely use Amsoil or some other quality synthetic.

[doctorgonzo]

I usually use Penzoil or Valvoline (courtesty of Valvoline Instant Oil Change). My old Corolla with 248,000 miles on it didn't burn oil, and I took it to the Valvoline place where they stuck in 5W-30. Same with my wife's Nissan. Now, however, our new VW seems to be a bit pickier about oil weight; 10W-30 did not cut it about 65º. Since your average oil change shop doesn't put anything other than 5W-30 or 10W-30, I change the oil myself.

[morriswindgate]

For diesels, Rotella has always been the standard to use. For gasoline engines it really doesn't matter as long as it is a quality detergent oil that meets the current auto engineering standards and changing it according to the driving conditions. Remember "Rough Service" is spending most of your time driving inside of a city. Also changing oil at 7000 to 8000 miles is, still in my mind at least twice as long as it should be. The detergent package by that time is pretty much used up.

[LWHiway]

Down south oilburning engines are used for mosquito abatement. Not really.

For the Dodge diesel I use Rotella. Consumption is way down, due to the specific additives I'm sure. 280k plus miles and still the belts squeal when I turn off the ignition. Used this oil from day one at first oil change.

For the mowers on the farm, lawn, I use synthetic. I noticed back in the 70's when using a particularly older mower, it was smoking a lot. It was 20+ yrs old then. I was using synthetic in my Harley and dumped some in the mower. After topping off the oil a few times, the blow by all but stopped. No noticable smoke in the exhaust. Of course a valve seat knurl and valve change stopped it completely. Started using it in all of them and have had good/great success.

Synthetics are more expensive, but I think they do just fine.

[meemooer]

ok being a future auto mechanic, and an assistant one now, i think i should say something.
There are several oil companies that distibute oil to other companies for bottleing. i forget what the company name is but Valvaline uses them and they are the best. Just look at the back of any oil container and it'll say Pennsylviana Crude oil or pacific something oil i think, well the "bad" one is actually not entirely good on your engine, i learned that in auto class at school, so next time you buy oil, pick up the bottle and check what company their using and , i will post the good company after work today at 5, but just check and see who makes your fav. oil, cause it may not be as good as you think.

[Blakhart]

If one changes it often say 2k or so, about anything save for pennzoil will do. Synthetic rules all however. Smokey said so and I believe him.
Pennzoil is not fit to be used to oil a gravel road.

[lil Jimmie]

For years I’ve been using Pennzoil in the race engines I’ve built and haven't had one grenade yet.

[Charger]

I try to put Valvoline or QS 10/40 in my bucket whenever possible.

[HAL9000]

OK, here's a question for you guys and I'll give my personal experience on it. What grade of oil do you prefer to run. I was always taught to run the thinnest oil that you can get away with. It seemed to me that if I had an engine that started to use a bit of oil, going to a thicker oil only seemed to accelerate the wear process and I would have to step to the next thicker oil to slow down the consumption again. Since then, I have run nothing but 5w30 whether it be -35'C or +35'C and seem to get much better wear on my engines. I tried 0w30 once in the winter, but when temps were around 0'c, the engine just seemed to noisy to be healthy. My old Mustang had 247,000Km on it without a leak and without using any oil between changes. I find the thicker oils seem to dirty faster as well.

Your thoughts?

[morriswindgate]

Heavier oils take longer to get to all the parts once the engine is started, meaning more wear time before the oil flows are up to required levels. Also heavier oils are more prone to oil whip around bearings and moving parts and also increase the hydraulic pressure on the parts.
The lightest reccommended oil for your climate and driving conditions will give the best service and engine wear.

[doctorgonzo]

Like I said, in the past I always used 5W-30 and had no problems. However, when I first got my VW it had 10W-30 in it, and when the temperature went above 60ºF the oil pressure at idle would drop to less than 0.5 bar at operating temperature. After putting in 20W-50 the pressure stays up and the oil light does not come on. Some engines seem to be pickier than others. Following the manual is probably your safest bet.

[lil Jimmie]

Run the lowest weight oil that your climate and driving conditions require. With the heavy oils used in race engines and high performance engines we install a pre-lubber that holds 2qts of oil and is forced into the engines oiling system prior to starting.

[dan3223]

I use Halvoline Synthetic 5W30 in my car and truck. It's full-synthetic, but it's about $3 per quart compared to $4.30 for Mobil 1 synthetic. Too bad they don't sell Amsol synthetic around here since I've heard nothing but good things about it. Has anyone mentioned filters? Lately I've been using the PureOne double-guard, or whatever it's called... it's blue in color.

[lil Jimmie]

Stock applications I use Fram air, oil and fuel filters.
High Preformance applications I use K&N air filters and Fram High Performance oil and fuel filters.

[juppy]

Originally posted by Blakhart
If one changes it often say 2k or so, about anything save for pennzoil will do. Synthetic rules all however. Smokey said so and I believe him.
Pennzoil is not fit to be used to oil a gravel road.
Sorry Blakhart, but I gotta disagree with you on that last statement. We got my '85 Mustang in '87 and it had about 27,000 miles on it. They told us it was using Pennzoil 10W40 so that's what we kept it on. It now has 147,000 miles on it and I've had no problems from it yet *knocks on wood*. We change it every 2000 to 3000 miles though so maybe that helps. I can't really complain about the quality of Pennzoil though.

[alan]

For filters I use K&N. Since it is a reusable filter I don't have to buy new ones all the time. I'm sure my Quik Oil Change place hates me for that since they cannot sell me an overprices cheapass filter.

As for oils, I go Mobil 1 Synthetic for my Jeep and Capri. Don't know if it really makes any noticeable difference in millage or performance although the infomercials give you all kinds of charts and graphs saying they do.

Has anyone used that Tornado Air Flow device in their car? Does it improve mileage and hp as they claim?

[morriswindgate]

Haven't used the Tornado, but I have, installed on my truck, a PowerAid Spacers and a Gibson Cat-Back Exhaust. Made a big differance from stock.

http://www.airaid.com/p2.shtml

[kbert777]

Just would like to clear up a few things:

First my background: ASE certified Master Mechanic, European Masters Degree in Automotive Electronics and about 20 years experience as a Automotive, Diesel and Aircraft mechanic.
Not doing this anymore, more money in developing e-learning courses for engineers.

No, not all oils are the same! You can clearly identify the base oils.
In Fleet and Aircraft maintenance it is very common to send oil samples to the lab for engine diagnostics. The lab is used never got the viscosity or manufacturer wrong.

Is there a correct oil for all climates and situations? No!
For example regular Quakerstate has a high level of Paraffin in the base, will sure kill any engine in high temperature climates by
clogging oil passages in lifters or cam oilers with huge amounts of sludge.

What's best to use? Simple and easy! Important thing is to change the oil regulary, every 3000 miles or 3 month what ever comes first. ( Just an easy rule of thumb)
Stay with the same oil brand and type. You can adjust the viscosity up and down according to manufactures specifications.

Use a quality filter! General rule of thumb: If it's orange it's junk!
Fram filters don't do much, there is actually nothing in them that could filter oil! As an aircraft mechanic I got used to cut used filters open, take my word for it!
Jiffy Lube and Q-Lube use a Fram Filter, just painted to their colors.
If you pay $15 for an oil change you get what you pay for. But don't get me wrong, any oil change is better then no oil change!

I used to race Dragsters and we used to buy WIX filters, paint them orange and put stickers on them to get contingency money. Nobody would use an original Fram.

Synthetic Oils are definetly worth their money if you still follow your oil change schedule. But for use in your grocery getter they are definetley overkill. My Nissan Pathfinder has 200k miles on Castrol GTX with no residue, sludge or any oil related problems.

To clarify the question about Diesel Oils like Rotella and Delo,
you have to keep in mind that the combustion pressure and temperatures inside a Diesel engine are higher then in a gas engine. These oils are formulated for specific applications and can not be replaced with generic replacements, even if the API codes indicate otherwise.

Hope this clears up some questions and problems,

Klaus

[SARGE]

Howdy kbert777 and welcome to PCMech. In your opinion, which is the better oil and filter for everyday cars, based on your experience? We got experts around these parts in almost everything so welcome aboard.
BTW, my '70 VW bug has always used 40w Valvoline, considering it lives in Texas.

[Kubie]

kbert777,
You put my mind at ease. I use WIX filters only and change the oil and filter every 3000 miles give or take a hundred.
And I second Sarge's Welcome to PC Mechanic.
Carl

[HAL9000]

kbert777, I'm intrigued by your comments. One, I run Purolator oil filters (It's what the lube place I go to uses) and I have always run Quaker State without any issues, but then again, change my oil faithfully every 5000Km (3000 miles).

[Kubie]

Hal, you're in the clear. He did say hot climates. I realize it probably gets warm where you're at, but not that hot.
Carl

[SARGE]

Originally posted by kbert777
What's best to use? Simple and easy! Important thing is to change the oil regulary, every 3000 miles or 3 month what ever comes first.




That's the bottom line. ;) Been using Fram on all vehicles around here for many moons; guess I'll keep on.

[lil Jimmie]

I'm sticking with Fram filters also.

[HAL9000]

Originally posted by Carlgif
Hal, you're in the clear. He did say hot climates. I realize it probably gets warm where you're at, but not that hot.
Carl

Yea, I wasn't overly concerned. On average, our summers are about 25-30'C. The odd time it will go into the mid 30's, but not very often. I was just wondering what the basis of the statement was and what was considered hot.

[Trent Steel]

Originally posted by doctorgonzo
Following the manual is probably your safest bet.

Exactly, the people who designed the engines most likely know more then the user.

[glc]

Dan - Amsoil is primarily sold through multi-level marketing, so check your Yellow Pages for an Amsoil dealer or I believe they have a locator or referral on the amsoil.com website. They do have a retail "on the shelf" program, but very few dealers that I know of are actively pursuing this line of sales. I am a former Amsoil dealer, I swore by, and still swear by, the quality of the product but I don't care for the way the company does business. To carry on with another aspect of this thread, their oil filters are outstanding premium products, but priced accordingly (as is their oil and everything else they peddle).

[Mr N8]

I use quaker state in both of my vehicles. I use the standard 10w-30 in the Crown vic, and I use the 10w-30 Full Synthetic for my Olds aurora. Buying sythetic is not cheap (7.5 quarts a change), but the aurora has a nice high compression engine, and the syth oil does wonders for it. For filters, I have used Napa Golds for a while. What is a better filter?

[jessho]

I use Royal Purple which is a synthetic. Almost all of my driving is on the highway, so I go 5000 miles between an oil change.

A word of caution for changing oil brands. Some synthetics have solvents that will release the sludge in your engine. In severe cases, the sludge will clog the screen on the oil pump. If this happens, the only repair - If the engine doesn't seize - is to pull the pan and clean the screen.

[Kubie]

MrN8,
Wix makes Napa filters.
In Wix, add a 5 to the Napa # for oil filter; a 4 for the air filter; and a 3 for the fuel filter.
Carl

[KR0316]

Your right Carlgif. Wix makes everyones house brand filters. Valvoline makes the house brand oils also. I use valvoline in my truck. I don't know if it is this way now but 10 years ago my roommate was involved in a major oil brands test and Valvoline had the least amount of somewhat harmful additives in the oil and I have been using it ever since.

[RayH]

A lot depends upon how you drive. Taxi cabs in San Francisco can put 300,000 miles on their odometers easy. Cars don't get more abused than stop and go running up and down our hills. They don't use any special oil. Just certified SAE motor oil.

I used to work in a major oil company refinery in the building where motor oil got jugged. It was the same oil for everybody, including the company's. Sometimes the dye would change.

Castrol purchased all its raw stocks from the refinery. At least in this area. Castrol would then do its own compounding and jugging in its own facilities across the road.

I trust SAE certification of oil in major brands. It's how I buy oil.

[dan3223]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Halvoline (made by Texaco I think) Synthetic oil? It's about $3 per quart, about a buck and a half less than Mobil 1, and my engine has been fine so far. 80k miles on the Chevy Corsica 3.1 V6, doesn't burn a drop between changes. I use Quaker State 4X4 oil in my new Dodge Dakota, but it's too new to really tell how good/bad the 'earl is.

[RayH]

I don't know if 4x4 motor oil has any different additives. I know the company I used to work for used to package regular 10-40 as motorcylce oil!

[dldz]

Originally posted by RayH
I don't know if 4x4 motor oil has any different additives. I know the company I used to work for used to package regular 10-40 as motorcylce oil!
Well I have owned many ATV's and dirt bikes & let me tell you that using regular 10-anything SAE motor oil is is a BiG NO NO! I have had friends ruin brand new 4 stroke engines because they did'nt want to pay the $8-9.00 a quart for Motorcycle oil.

[mark70]

Can't remember where i saw this review but it said that fram is now the worst filter you can use as they now use staples and cardboard in them. Also a tip for lawnmower users- use a marine grade synthetic in them as they contain corosion inhibiters which helps protect the mowers as they sit idle over the winter months(assuming you have winter months) Amsoil is a true synthetic but i do not believe that mobil one is-wasn't there a big lawsuit over this???:D

[glc]

They are both true synthetics, but they use different chemicals in their manufacture - Amsoil is ester-based and Mobil 1 is glycol-based. I suppose you can argue that glycol is closer to petroleum than ester, but I don't see that as a big deal, as long as it works.

[SARGE]

The talent and knowledge around PCMech is awesome. When I began this thread I figured it would turn into a Intel vs. AMD or Ford vs. Chevy debate, but good info is being put out.

Wife's uncle was such a fanatic about oil. He'd ask everyone he met what kind of oil they used, then rush home and change his to that brand. I kid you not, if the next day he met another person who used and swore by another brand, he'd repeat the process. We laughed and figured he got 100 miles between oil changes.

[glc]

Back in my days of playing with cars, I was a nut on what oil and filter I used - but I think with today's engines and oil technology you are fine as long as you keep it changed at reasonable intervals - I abused the heck out of my beater 87 Sable, changing the oil when I "got around to it" at the local quick lube - and at 163K miles that old 3 liter was still only burning a quart every 3k. If I were to buy a new or almost new car, I would be fussy again, but with beaters, I just don't have the incentive.

[RayH]

Unless you have some sort of trick engine, any SAE approved oil is going to do the trick. No names get their jugs filled by the big names.

The thing about chagning oil frequently has less to do with oil breakdown than to drain out the garbage that's collecting inside the oil pan.

[glc]

And to renew additives that are no longer effective.

[Colonel Sanders]

I thought the difference in oil weight was also effected by RPMs. Specifically because a diesel will turn about 3500 RPM MAX, but a gas on the other hand.... A crotch rocket will be turning about 4x that, needing lighter oil?

Logan

[HAL9000]

I've always used the thinest oil I can get away with, but that's relative to what you're running for an engine. Diesel engines put much heavier loads on bearings, cylinder walls, etc, so require a heavier oil than a crotch rocket motorcycle.

[dldz]

Well what I meant by motorcycle oil for ATV's is alot of the newer ones (4 stroke) share the engine oil with the transmissions. So using regular SAE motor oil screws internal parts up fast ,within 2K miles it will cause trans wear & oil burning etc.....Think of it as adding 3 in 1 oil to a chainsaw gas mix won't last long eh ?

[meemooer]

i would just like to add that i have a '72 Ford Gran Torino sport, with a 351-c 4v, holley 4160 750CFM VS, carb, and a Edlebrock Performer intake. My car loves to be rev'ed up high , all cleveland motors do, right now i'm saving up to rebuild the engine, i want at least 350hp, and the same with torque, when and if i rebuild it's all synthetic oils from there, mainly becuase it will be an everyday driver/ weekend drag. Filter choice wil definately be later

[doctorgonzo]

Here's a question for people: next month I am going on a road trip to the East Coast. Normally I don't use synthetic oil, but would there be any benefit to changing the oil with synthetic prior to the trip?

[glc]

doc: Depends on how many miles are on the car - it's not wise to switch to synthetic on a high mileage engine due to its higher detergency and propensity for finding leaks. If you do switch, you may see about a 5% or greater increase in your gas mileage on the highway due to lower friction.

[doctorgonzo]

It's got about 74,000 miles on it, and it is a '93, so it is not exactly new. Thanks for the info, the leaking is something I hadn't thought about.

[glc]

With 74,000 miles, that's right around the point where you have to think about the switch carefully. If you know the history of the car, and know for a fact the oil has been changed frequently, it uses no oil between oil changes, and you have no visible leaks, a switchover will most likely be successful. Also open the oil cap if it's on the valve cover and shine a flashlight in there and look for sludge. If there is visible sludge, don't switch. If what you see is just coated with a light golden brown film, that's what it's supposed to look like, not black blobs of gook.