Win 95 installation prob.

[aj_86cc]

I recently put an old pentium computer back together. I decided to format the old 1 gig hard drive. I did, and when i boot up into DOS i can't reinstall windows, because i dont know if i'm typing in the correct letter (d:) or what. It always says invalid drive...i have the windows cd in the cd-rom and i know the cd-rom is hooked up correctly too.

[RJ]

Does the boot disk have CD-ROM drivers ?
If not, get one from www.bootdisk.com and try again.

RJ

[Cricket]

Hi aj_86cc,

It's been awhile since I did anything with Win95, but have you tried using the next available drive letter? Type e:\ and hit Enter. Then type dir and hit Enter. If you have the right drive letter, you'll see the contents of the Win95 CD.

Are you using the right Win95 startup disk? Does the disk have the correct CD drivers on it?

If you need another boot/startup disk, go to Bootdisk.com (http://www.bootdisk.com/) and get the right startup/boot disk for the OS you're using.

:) Cricket

[GaryRouth]

Hi aj_86cc,

Look at that, Cricket and RJ posted answers at exactly the same minute.

Did you get a boot disk OK over at bootdisk.com? That is the easiest way. If you run into any trouble, let us know.

You might also be able to boot directly from the Win95 disk if you enter the Bios Setup (usually available by pressing either F1 or DEL when you see "Press F1 (or DEL) to Enter Setup" at Startup)
On one of the menus, you'll see an entry for what order devices should be looked at for boot disks....you'd want CDROM at the top of the list to boot from it. Then change it back to C: after your install is complete.

. . . Gary

[aj_86cc]

i'm not sure if i should do 95a or 95b, ill try both and see if it works...
Gary- i remember in the setup it only gave me these two options for what order - c:\ , a:\ or a:\ , c:\ my floppy is a:\

[RJ]

So then it should be A:, C: to boot from floppy.

RJ

[GaryRouth]

Hi again

Wow, RJ answered you in 3 minutes, took me an hour.... (and not getting any younger)...

I'm searching my old brain trying to remember if you can tell by looking at the Win95 cdrom exactly what version it is... (It's easy to tell after everything is installed on a pc - it's in Device Manager under the General tab) ...If there's any indication on the label, such as "OSR2" (which would be 95b, I believe, and 95a is 95 with the 1st Service Pack installed?)...then try to match your boot disk to your cdrom.

If that Win95 is on another pc nearby, just look in Device Manager for the version (General tab)

. . . Gary

[aj_86cc]

i have the '95 CD in my good computer, is there a way to tell which version it is by using explorer?

[GaryRouth]

I knew I should've saved my old Win95 disk . . . then I could answer these questions a whole lot faster . . .

We don't seem to have any of those left around here anywhere (got half a ton of Win98 and Win2k though).... I can't remember if looking at the setup.exe properties version would help (not a real good chance) ...seems like one thing you could try would be to look at some of the main readmes or help files with the .txt file extension, and see if the heading "Windows 95 blah blah" indicates what version it is

If that doesn't indicate anything, hopefully someone either with a disk nearby or a good memory will post an answer for you
. . . Gary

[aj_86cc]

ok...i got the boot disk, both of them, but i think its not reading my floppy drive correctly because i type a:\ at DOS and it gives me the not ready readying error=abort retry fail? and it still does this whenever i put any disk in the a drive

[GaryRouth]

Hi again

Try this:

1) Put the Win95 cd in the cdrom drive

2) Put the Win95 boot floppy in the floppy drive

3) Power off. (and wait 30+ seconds)

4) Power on.

The pc should boot to the floppy, and allow you to type d:setup to begin the install. (IF the floppy has loaded usable cd-rom drivers)

(is the cdrom an IDE-drive, and connected to IDE ports on the motherboard, or is it connected to a port on a sound card?)

. . . Gary

[aj_86cc]

yes, it is an IDE and it is on the ribbon that is connected to the hard drive and the motherboard (i dont have a sound card installed yet, i was going to wait until i installed windows)
im going to try the techworm bootdisk

[GaryRouth]

hey again

If the box is still open, it can't hurt to double check that the jumpers on the hard drive are set to "Master" and the cdrom drive to "Slave"

Good luck! Keep at it
. . . Gary

[aj_86cc]

i did the autoexec /c command and it says data error reading drive a:

[GaryRouth]

back again

Let's see: some questions:

1) at system startup (the POST), do you see your cdrom drive listed on screen when the BIOS reports the hardware it has found attached to the motherboard?

2) does the hard disk or does the cdrom drive appear as the 1st drive listed on your Primary IDE Controller? (also on that same BIOS screen)

3) do you have another floppy drive handy just in case this one is faulty?

4) have you tried different floppies? ...do they scan OK with an antivirus program?

5) not sure about the autoexec command from the A: prompt....
I usually leave that file to Windows' startup routine....

I'll keep checking back
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...you can press the PAUSE/BREAK key while the BIOS is displaying that hardware detection screen so that you can view it without having to be a speed-reader.... pressing any key thereafter allows it to continue]

[GaryRouth]

another question

What did you use to format the hard drive? . . . Win95 original needs FAT16 as the file system. I think Win95 OSR2 was the 1st FAT32 capable Windows. Did you create just one primary DOS partition? (this would be a logical choice for a 1gb drive)

And just to make sure that the hard drive is good (since we're checking just about everything now) ...download the disk diagnostic software from the drive's manufacturer's website and make sure it checks out OK

. . . Gary

(I'll be busy for a little while, but should be able to check back in an hour or so)

[aj_86cc]

im not sure what i did to format- i used format c: /s
i didn't run fdisk first, i formatted from dos not off a boot disk (1 primary partition)

[aj_86cc]

here is the hard drive
http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/search/bymodelnumber/1,,,00.html

[aj_86cc]

never mind that last one
go here http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/search/bymodelnumber and type ST3660A for model #

[GaryRouth]

hi again

On the Seagate site, if that ST3660A is indeed the drive in hand, it looks like it's only a 545mb drive. . . no DMA gonna happen there. If we can get Win95 onto that drive, it's not going to have many fancy extras (forget extensive screensavers, themes, etc)
. . . should be Ok for Internet and wordprocessing though.

How's about we start again from the beginning: look again at your Win95 cdrom disk's label...if there's no indication otherwise, it's probably the original version. So let's boot from a Win95a floppy boot disk, and from the A: prompt type fdisk. Delete all existing partitions, and create a single primary DOS partition. Then exit fdisk without formatting the drive. If the bootdisk has loaded the Oaksys cdrom IDE drivers, you should be able to type D: setup and the install of Win95 should start and offer to format the drive for you. If you get this far, then you'll be able to continue the install normally.

If you run into problems right away, and they are floppy drive errors, check your floppy cables, and try another drive, and other floppies if you can.

If you suspect the hard drive, download the SeaTools diagnostics and see if the drive isn't right...

Do you have any other hard drives to use?

. . . Gary

[..and anything unusual or missing on that BIOS hardware detection screen at startup?]

[aj_86cc]

i have an extra floppy drive i can use, and i have a western digital 2.1 gig hard drive

[GaryRouth]

hi aj_86cc

The WD 2.1gb drive would give you enough room to go with Win98, if you have a copy. If you have Win98SE, that'd be even better: it can run most of the software out there, it has better built in diagnostics and system tools (file checkers, backups, defragmenters...all a little better than 95) . . . and you could always slave the 545mb Seagate to it if both drives turn out to be OK.

If you decide to try 98 instead, you'll be fine if your Pentium is a 75 or 90 or better. If your memory is 64mb or better, that'll help too. You obviously don't want to spend any real money on a box any older than a P75... I'd put an upper limit of $25-$35, because anywhere higher than that you'd be better off with a newer generation mobo/cpu.

I'm still curious, though, about what you're seeing on the POST screen. Check in your Bios settings to see if they have an Auto Detect for the IDE devices. Use that if it's not set to that already. If there are drives that aren't showing up on that screen, then it might be that the cables aren't quite right . . . or the drives are goners... If they are detected, how did they do with the diagnostics?

And don't worry, you'll get there eventually
. . . Gary

[GaryRouth]

I always forget something

By the way, the disk diagnostics for the Seagate are called SeaTools, and they available from a link on that same webpage (the 2nd one) you posted above for your Seagate drive. The diagnostics for the Western Digital are called "Data LifeGuard" and can be downloaded from their website.

...and regarding the floppy, if it's an ancient one, it might be for the older lower density floppies and can't read the higher density 1.4mb floppies that the bootdisks are on. Might be time to try your other floppy drive.
. . . Gary

[aj_86cc]

i think i know why it won't read it in DOS-because it won't autodetect my cd-rom in the setup. I tried switching the jumper on my cd-rom to all different choices, but it doesn't detect it. Where should be detecting it? (primary,secondary;slave,master)

[GaryRouth]

Are you referring to the "AutoDetect IDE Devices" option in the Bios (which offers to look while you are still in Bios Setup). . . or to what you see on the Bios screen when starting the pc? (which is what it sees currently) . . . If the cabling or jumpers are wrong, it won't show up in either one.

If, however you do see it in that POST (Power On Self Test) Bios screen, then your cables and jumpers are probably fine. If you see it in that list, then it's a driver problem: the boot disk isn't loading one that can read that drive.

If the hard drive and cdrom drive were working before with the same cabling arrangement, then everything should be ok. If you're not sure, we'll need to know a little about your motherboard, your hard drive, your cdrom drive, and the cable you're using to connect them.

If you're motherboard has two IDE ports on it, you can set the jumpers on both the hard drive and the cdrom to "Master" or "Single". In this case, you would use two IDE cables (of the older 40wire kind, not the newer 80wire kind . . . if you don't have two, just about any friend whose tech-minded will have an extra). You'll put each drive at the end of it's own cable. There's usually a pink or red strip to one side of the IDE cable to indicate what side Pin 1 is on. On both the cdrom and the hard drive, the pink stripe will go closest to the power plug on the drive (if it has a little plastic "key", then there will only be one way to put it in - but the oldest cables won't have that). On the motherboard, one IDE will be marked IDE0 or IDE1 or Primary. There will also be a tiny 1 silkscreened onto the motherboard next to each IDE connector, showing you which side pin 1 is on. Plug the IDE cable's pink edge in on that side. Plug the cdrom's cable into the Secondary IDE port (connector). On most cdroms, the jumpers are very simple: the first is M for Master, the middle is S for Slave, and the third is CS, for Cable Select. There may be a diagram on the hard drive showing it's jumper settings. Or you can check it manufacturer's website.

If you want to go with just one cable, use the Primary IDE port on the motherboard, set the hard drive to Master, and the cdrom to Slave. (I like to leave the cdroms as Masters on their own IDE port, but that's just a personal preference...it's theoretically a bit faster)

_____
I'm still curious, though, about the floppy: does it show up on the Bios screen too? Does it read anything? Floppy cables can be tricky to connect just right too, you might want to review some of this (since this post is starting to get too long) over in the HowToBuildItYourself area of pcmech.

By the way, I finally got a copy of Win95 handy. If the cabs are dated in 95, you've got the original. If they're dated in 97, you've probably got OSR2. . .along with it's FAT32 support. I was reading some of the startup notes, and the boot disks for earlier versions of Win95 will not work with Win95 OSR2, because of the changes to accomodate FAT32. The label on your CD should have some clue if it's OSR2, but check the cab dates just to make sure it's the original, and use the Win95 original bootdisk (wherever you can find one)

I still recommend trying Win98, if you can. It will definitely have drivers for your cdrom drive. If your other computer runs Win98, you should have a bootdisk.

You can tell I'm pretty tired...this is rambling on...
I'll check back with you in the morning
. . . Gary

[GaryRouth]

any luck yet?

. . . Gary

[aj_86cc]

yes, iam referring to the AutoDetect IDE Devices option in bios setup. I do have 2 IDE cables. I setup so that the hard drive is in the primary slot, set to master, and the cd-rom is set to master in the secondary slot, but no-go w/ the cd-rom. The cd-rom has 3 jumper settings like you said before, cable select, slave, master

[GaryRouth]

So the cdrom drive doesn't detect at all? Are you sure it's an IDE? Do you have the make/model #? (you can post it here & we'll check the specs. CD drives do go bad in a hurry sometimes, you might just have a dead one.

Did the hard drives detect OK and run through the diagnostics OK? And was the floppy drive ever able to read anything? Did you check in the Bios if the density setting for the floppy match the floppy drives model? (most new floppies are the 1.4mb, but at the time of the 486/Pentium transition there were still lower density drives around)....

Keep posting if you still need help
. . . Gary

(by the way, you're not the only one working on an old rig this week....I spent last night fixing up an old Gigabyte Ga-586IS system for an accomplished writer here in the area. I'd never actually seen a P-66 in person before (they had a short lifespan in the marketplace, because newer models came fast)...Runs Win95 original, has all those old motherboard bios limitations, and no bios updates available that make any difference! PCI was brand new then, no IDE ports on the board (only on the add-on I/O card). . .Cdrom is the proprietary Panasonic connector on the sound card.. and a teeny 540mb hard drive .... It's back to working nice and quick, and now sports an external modem). . . .

[aj_86cc]

604A 302...Acer 24x

[aj_86cc]

nonono...624A 302 Acer 24x

[GaryRouth]

At this point, have you tested all the hardware going into this system? Were all these parts working together previously? or are they from several different machines. (every now I then I build a "Spare Parts" machine just to see if those old parts still work...they ususally do)

Seems like you have another computer handy. You can open it's box up and try testing the cdrom in that one . . . at least that will eliminate that question. A 24x Acer should be an IDE. The early non-IDE drives were only 1x, 2x, and a few 4x.

I thinks it's time to know what motherboard you have too.

And did you try diagnostics on the hard drives? Ever get the floppy to read?

. . . Gary

[calypso]

I'm not sure (never really had to do it) but when installing Windows 95 I remeber something about having to get the drivers for the cd-rom drive and putting them on the Windows 95 start up disk. In Windows 98 Microsoft put a driver provided by Oak technology on the Windows 98 start up disk to recignize the cd-rom and there for the user was able to skip the part about making there own custom startup disk. I dunno if this is your problem but I know I had this trouble at one time with a friends computer.

[RKC]

I also recently been having trouble putting together a system and have had some of the problems you mentioned, including the CD-ROM not being recognized. One solution I had to do was to put the CD-ROM as a Master on the secondary IDE controlled on the motherboard. The bios recognized it but I then had to load the CD-ROM drivers in the DOS config.sys and autoexec.bat when Windows was booting up for Windows to recognize it.

It took me over week to figure what worked ( although I am still having issues with Windows98 itself )

Ron

[magicdog]

Hi

I'm having the same problems with a P100 on an old Hsing MOBO. I've tried to locate a BIOS update but can't find one (it's old !).
I think your problem and mine may be that the BIOS is not new enough to support auto-detect of the CDROM.

Any more ideas Gary ?

[GaryRouth]

Hi magicdog - I think most Pentium based motherboards should be capable of autodetecting a cdrom drive. If you're not sure about the condition of the cd-drive, try it in another system just to see if it's just a goner. If it works there, then see if you can find a DOS driver at the manufacturer's website, and add it to your Win95 bootdisk. (or try a bootdisk from bootdisk.com)

aj-86cc - any luck yet?

. . . Gary

[sorry for the long delay answering, I've been very busy here at work]

[oldsailor]

About Boot Disks: I ran W95 before I changed to 98se and I was not ever able to take down a bootdisk online that brought up the CDROM on either. I had to obtain the system files from the mfg and build my own boot disks. I just bought a new CDROM drive that would handle my CDRW drive and it is the first one that would handle the OAKROM system. If the CDROM is over five or six years old it is tough to find a boot disk.