Pete Rose in the hall of fame?

[ryan7962]

Wanted to get your opionon of letting pete rose in the hall of fame. I personally believe that he should be let into the hall of fame. Sure everyone makes mistakes the only thing he did was bet on baseball and they keep him out because of that. There are people in the hall of fame that used to do drugs and they sure let them, which i believe is truly wrong

What do you guys think

[Statica]

Not in <b>his</b> lifetime! Yes they may have a lot worse playing now, but that place is still an institution.

I would like to see Shoeless Joe in the hall before Pete Rose, if at all Rose is supposed to be in there (which I dont think he should).

[doctorgonzo]

I think gambling and drugs should both be extensibly legalized, so neither should in and of itself matter.

In this case, since there is a lot of evidence that Rose was betting on his own team, I don't think he deserves to get in. How many CEOs have also been essentially betting on their own teams, and what kind of mess has that created? There is simply too much of an opportunity for malfeasance when you are betting on a sport that you are involved in.

[pmaddock]

I think that he should be in. True, he screwed up and bet on baseball (supposedly), but his hit record and hustle speaks for itself. My dad loved Pete Rose; and the very first ball game at Crosley Field in Cincinnati that he took me to, he told me to watch #14. To this day, I still hustle at everything I do in softball, including going down the line after a walk. I owe my ethic to my dad and Pete Rose. So the bottom line - he belongs (in my opinion) in the Hall.


PM

[cobra]

I am a Pete Rose fan, growing up watching him on tv, along with many others, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt...All time greats...

[mbossman2]

Unfortunately Mr. Rose broke the one rule (and got caught) that is sudden death in professional sports. Having spent some time with pro teams, that rule is pounded into you from day one and you are reminded over and over again thru out your career that there is no greater transgression than that one.

He will probably never get into the Hall until (or unless) ShoeLess Joe gets in. Baseball set the precedent with the Black Sox and will probably never cross that line.

with so much special treatment given to professional athletes (in the courts, both judicial and public opinion), it is nice to see that there is a point of no return for their actions (IMHO).

[Tuf]

Pete Rose was absolutely positively one of the most memorable players in baseball history. But you know what he did this to him self. The rule existed before his transgression. I don't think he is being treated unfairly, there has to be some standard and this one is clear. I'm sure they will let him in someday, but personally I don't think he belongs there. History will remember him as a gambler more than as the great player he was.

[ryan7962]

but i dont understand why they let people who did drugs when they played????

[mbossman2]

Originally posted by ryan7962
but i dont understand why they let people who did drugs when they played????

That is a really good question. The problem, as I see it, is based on the fact that drug use appeared as a porblem post-collective bargaining. Both sides betrayed the fans when they bargained away stiff penalties in the process of making the collective bargaining agreement.

[bigpuma]

My feeling is if you do drugs you hurt yourself, but gambling on baseball jerks with the integrity of the game. There are many people in the Hall of Fame who did perhaps worse things but that doesn't change the fact that the rule clearly states a lifetime ban if you bet on baseball. Pete Rose knew what he was doing and if he truely didn't bet on baseball then he should've fought for his rights. Instead he accepted the agreement which banned him for life. He has no one to blame but himself. I say put him in the hall the day after he dies.
- BP

[Alan]

What about the allegations of steroids and performing enhancement drugs in the last few seasons of the home run races? I almost consider that cheating.

I don't Pete Rose ever threw a game by the way he played. He probably bet that he'd win them all!!

[bigpuma]

I would agree about the performance enhancing drugs. I definately would consider that when deciding on whether someone should get into the hall of fame. Perhaps Pete Rose never did bet against his team but even if he bet on his team it would effect the way he managed that game and others around it.

[Tuf]

It is irrelevent who he bet on, he knew the rules and he disregarded them. He either thought he was above the rules or simply made a foolish decision and now he is facing the consequences.

[highrisemech]

The guy was railroaded.
The allegations were never proven as fact.
Jhonny Hustle is a hero to many.
There is no reasonable reason to keep him out of baseball at this juncture.
Myself, I would trust his character before a lot of the druggie athletes that were allowed to stay in baseball.
This issue could have been resolved though other means without banning him for life.

[mbossman2]

Originally posted by highrisemech
The guy was railroaded.
The allegations were never proven as fact.
Jhonny Hustle is a hero to many.
There is no reasonable reason to keep him out of baseball at this juncture.
Myself, I would trust his character before a lot of the druggie athletes that were allowed to stay in baseball.
This issue could have been resolved though other means without banning him for life.

Rose was given the opportunity to do the right thing, accept the ban for life, prior to a complete hearing. According to many sources, Rose was shown all the evidence and give the option of taking the ban voluntarily or go thru the whole process, which would have made the evidence public (intentionally or not). I think that Rose decided that if all the evidence were made public, the fans might have thought that a lifetime ban was going to easy on him and in an effort to save what little face he had left, he took the plea.

The fact that Rose bet on baseball does not diminish his accomplishments on the field, what it did do is diminish the man. His efforts are recorded in the record book and will always remain there but the man can not and should not be in the hall of fame.

Of course, as always, this is IMHO.

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by Alan
What about the allegations of steroids and performing enhancement drugs in the last few seasons of the home run races? I almost consider that cheating.

And? Did baseball players sixty years ago have the equipment that players do nowadays? The trainers? Computers analyzing their swing? The "legal" dietary supplements? Why isn't the use of any of those things considered cheating, too?

You can pump me as full of steroids as you want and I probably wouldn't hit .150. Drugs can't create athletic ability out of thin air, especially in baseball. Let people take what they want, and in the record books, put a little footnote next to the record that says what the player was taking and doing.

Taking drugs is, in the end, something you do to yourself. Gambling on your own team kinda eliminates the point of baseball. If you want to gamble, don't have a controlling interest in what you gamble on. Simple.

[homer15]

man, remember that all star game? that was awful.

[Alan]

Doctorgonzo. I hear you on the equipment and technology thing. It's not even comparing apples to apples with the amount of science factored into today's game. I cannot explain it, I just feel something different about performance enhancing drugs compared to the size, shape and weight of a new baseball glove.

[ssahl]

Yes I think he should be in the hall, so should Joe Jackson. Dont bet on it ever happening (for either one) one point just like to say, performence wise Joe should be in there way before Pete, but if I'm not mistaken, Joe bet against himself, or made extra cash to play bad, Pete bet on his own team. I could be wrong on that, and maybe that doesnt make a difference, but to me it kind of does, but even still like I said, I think they both should be in there.

[Kubie]

I've reading this with interest. No doubt Pete Rose was an excellent baseball player. Problem is that he broke the rules of the profession he's in.
Overall view to me is that anytime anybody is to be honored and receive accolades for his accomplishments, his character and integrity should be considered.
I don't think he should be in the Hall of Fame.
Carl

[Statica]

I still would like to reiterate that what Rose did was out of his own greed, and his own volition. I do not want him in the Hall as long as he is alive. Maybe posthumously, if his accomplishments stand the test of time, and if his accomplishments outweigh his petty greed then maybe yeah. Shoeless Joe never did it, he was acquitted of the charges, he even reported the inproprietaries to his owner who dismissed him. I cannot believe that anyone would make a valid case of Rose without even considering Shoeless Joe.

<hr>
Regarding doping et al. You know what, I am sick of all these athletes doing it and finding newer ways of doing it. Am sure its going to be a stress financially as well coming up with the technology to test them. Am not just speaking of baseball, but even as recent as the Canadian who was caught at the Commonwealth Games the day before. Here's my suggestion.

Let them dope .. let them find newer ways to dope .. I mean if a few idiots want to die for my entertainment, like I care. So what if they run the 100 mts faster than a Porsche, while looking like an elephant. Dont see why we need to prevent someone to do something as stupid for my excitement. And like the formula 1 championships, why not even have a "constructors" championship? Like the driver and the constructor get a prize, I say give a medal to the "athlete" as well as to the pharmac. company that comes up with the fastest steroid! Should be good to have a race amongst the different brands.

[ssahl]

As far as the dope goes all I can say is thats a shame. The sport doesnt matter, and I bet that in any sport about 35-45% of them use them to try and better themselves. Even still, there are those who stand out as being better then the rest, without the dope, just pure natural talent. Barry Bonds is having a good year, and had a great one last year, and he makes an unreal amount of money, but why didnt he ever show signs of playing like that before? Personally I think he didnt like being refered to as #2 best all around ball player (to Ken Jr) nothing really to prove that, just what I think from watching baseball over the years. Great players like lets say Micheal Jordon are rare, dope can make the just above average players play at that level, it's not hard to see why so many do it. From what I have heard doing some of that crap can make people more violent too (just like any other hard drug) then think about some of the athletes who have not done well with the spectators or press. Mike Tyson, Jose Conseco, Barry Bonds, I could go on and on. Think about someone like Dale Murphy, guy who played baseball for years for the Braves, great player, think he should be in the hall someday for sure, one of those great all around players, (could hit, hit for power, defense, speed, arm) every day players, he never did anything but good for the game, on or off the field.

[bigpuma]

I would agree with you Statica that the players should be responsible for his/her own health. However with steroids if so many people are getting away with it it puts enoromous pressure on those players that don't want to do steroids. Imagine being in the minor leagues playing with people who use steroids and fighting with them for a spot in the Majors. It puts a lot of pressure on those players to use it, especially with the financial rewards at stake. They need to start testing to protect those honest players not wanting to use steroids to boost performance.

[StunGunz]

Theres not much to argue, Rose can't go into the hall untill he applies for reinstatement from MLB. And considering he'd have to answer publicly whether or not he bet on games while he was a manager, and not just a player, makes it unlikely he'll ever do so.

[Carl Price]

Pete Rose was not railroaded. He accepted what was essentially a plea bargain from MLB and now he doesn't like it. True, his accomplishments on the field were phenomenal, but the man himself strikes me as kin to a snake. Just my opinion only!