New distribution comparisons RedHat or Mandrake?

[Statica]

Hi guys .. been a while since I went back to load up on some Linux distributions, and needed to do a few installs for people I know. Had a chance to compare between Mandrake 9.0 vs Redhat 8.0; I basically needed a distribution to behave a fully featured desktop machine, and after my experiences I would recommend Redhat over Mandrake under the current conditions.

The first real great thing about Redhat is the media check that it does before installation. As you might well have experienced, there are occasions when the installation media itself mysteriously misbehaves, an error that I've experienced quite often, which is usually solved by either downloading from a different mirror or trying another burn. Redhat smartly checks all your media for you before you start getting package errors.

The wizards are more efficient! especially partitioning, installation class, and package selection screens are a whole lot better, and one of the best things I've noticed is the push to use Grub on Redhat (probably in recognition of the bold new NTFS generation out in the neither-world). Well of course once installed both behave pretty much the same, but I must say that I've noticed the mandrake versions are noticeably more sluggish than the hat's.

Oh yeah the installs were also, if you are interested, on a number of laptops, and it was seamless, just one ESS Maestro sound card misbehaving but thats easily corrected.

[Statica]

Addendum - Bah to both of the above .. sticking with Gentoo!!!

[OOPS!]

Hi Statica,

Yeah, Gentoo is nice for those of us with broadband and a fast cpu (I have neither). So, I'm sticking with Mandy. Been using 9.0 for a couple of weeks now. Works very well for me.

Just out of curiousity, what ticked you off with RH and Mandy?

OOPS!

[Statica]

Hey OOPS .. sorry for the delay in this reply, believe me, I tried starting off my reply a number of times .. but I cant express in as many strong enough words why I cant stand all the Linux distributions that are being churned out -
Are you sure you want to sit thru this?
ok .. firstly, this whole Linux kernel 2.4.xx thread has just really bugged the heck out of me .. from that one year delay to the 'hmm' type of performance with the first few versions .. this is what happened .. during that wait for Linux to come up to speed .. I discovered alternatives to the so called king of alternatives... so you have to understand that I am a bit peeved with Linux .. hate to rehash the same old story, but you've prolly read me say it a hundred times before here (sound like a guy who has nothing else in the way of NIX know but rehashed cribs), but Linus is really stifling the growth of Linux.
Now coming on to Mandrake and Redhat .. they are getting to be quite irritating .. Mandy especially does not seem to know what the word stable means. Call me archaic, but I believe in those days, when the kernel stable release was a big thing (still remember fondly when patches used to be called brown bag releases - cos the kernel developers would be ashamed and walk around with their heads in brown paper bags :) .. I could blindly trust a kernel if the Linux gods called it stable .. now its just the same old version 9.0 .. 9.1 .. 9.1.1 blah blah .. thank God Linux is free .. else I wouldnt even bother. Redhat is slightly better at it. Then there is the bloatware .. now really guys .. do we really need to be forcefed all those packages .. its fine .. I can take half a look at it and decide to get rid of all that crap .. but what bout the ppl starting off - like they know what should and shouldnt be installed .. that is an awful lot of bloat for a development version of an operating system.
Gentoo, is harder to get working, but man is it direct. As the facks say .. Slackware and bsd lovers will like it .. and they werent kidding. Anyways, why take away from the mystery of it all .. try it out .. it really is quite rewarding, if you want a secure stable and fast linux box

[OOPS!]

Hi Statica,

Thanks for the reply. I got nothing but time to wait :).

I 've been using Mandy since 7.0. And I tend to agree with a lot of what you say. Most distro's are becoming more bloated as time passes. But I think it is what people want out of the "mainstream" distros. Everybody wants that "Swiss army knife" with all the shiney gadgets. And that is what they are getting, perhaps not exicuted well, but..... I do think that in time things should sort themselves out. There will be desktop distros and server distros. (Just don't quote that last statement back to me 2 years from now :) ). Your right about the overwhelming choices of software installed (do we really need 4 different terminals or 6 text editors installed by default!). But by the same token, if you're a newbie, how do you know what you want or need if you can't try out different programs. Kind of a catch-22.

The stability issue is something that really gets me. If one distro works on one machine, it should work as well on a similar machine. The fact that none of them do, really mystifies me.

For better or worse I think that Linus is necessary to continued devoplement. That he might not be bring much to new devopment wouldn't be surprising to me. How many new and improved ideas can anyone have? And I suspect most of what you see being done now is mostly done in his name, without his direct intervention. But, he is necessary as a figurehead to give a focus to linux.

I would love to try Gentoo, but I have a dialup connection and I'm getting to be an old man. So is my boxen. I wonder how many weeks it would take to compile a complete Gentoo install on my K6-2 350 (128megs PC100) :). But the really great thing about linux is that there is a distro for everyone. So we can all use what we like best.

I think I better stop now. This is getting to be quite long-winded for me :).

OOPS!

[Computer Hobbyist]

Statica, Oops,

Good to read your exchange. Thanks for the thoughts.

CH

[Statica]

I really dont know if Linus has been involved with core development as much as he used to before (or is he still pretending to breathe life into the Transmeta joke?). Either way, I have been using the ac kernels for a while now, and I trust them.

If Linux starts catering to the desktop crowd, pretty soon you will find that a lot of those that develop for Linux crawl back into their old NIX woodwork. Mandy and RH, have this half baked notion that just because they integrate about 3000 software packages that people might start favoring it. The truth is that Linux has been favored by people by those that honestly want to use Linux and those that understand the merits of being able to use Linux over any other OS. Cheap shennanigans like including 3 different versions of ICQ clones is just not going to cut it. Sure the download stats of nearly every linux mirror on the planet is pretty encouraging, but what they still dont realize is that most of these people are those that "wanna check it out" .. I really am rather apathetic towards those that want to load up Linux (the newest one no less) on their old clunker; and then soon complain about it being sluggish and un-userfriendly.

You know what I just realized, I perhaps have understood my loathing for Mandy and RH, I CANT STAND FENCE SITTERS! And thats basically what I feel these people are doing .. sitting on the fence .. their just hacks who are out there "repackaging" (pardon the pun), the same stuff without an ounce of originality, and they are afraid of taking a stand .. and afraid of forging a direction. Look at where it got Slackware .. and sadly that is one of the cleanest Linux distribs around.

[OOPS!]

Hi Statica,

If I remember right, I think I read somewhere that Linus was turning over much of the day to day kernel work to Alan Cox. So, perhaps that is why the AC kernels are better now.

Sadly, all those "shiney" baubles that are now included in most distros are what gets most people to check out linux. And personally, I think that a desktop distro is a good thing. Because, let's face it. 99% of all users aren't, can't, won't be powerusers. Mandrake I think, has lead the way for the desktop. But you're right about the fact that they should have the guts to say we are pretty much dropping the server stuff to concentrate on the desktop. That RH is following them now, is folly for them. RH should stick to the server/poweruser end. They do that very well. But, in the business world, you have to do what sells.

Have some patience, I think things will settle out. Then you will probably see things go in a definite direction. This OS is still quite young (though the underpinnings are old). It still has a long way to go.

OOPS!