I need help networking two comps w/ a switcH.....

[MtX]

Hello,

I have been notified by a few friends that it is IMPOSSIBLE to share DSL internet access in a peer-to-peer network; in other words, it is only POSSIBLE to share DSL internet access if you use a switch, hub or router because the DSL IP is not static. I do not know if this is completely true, you never know the answer until you try it yourself, and I havent tried it. This is off topic, but if anyone knows if this is true or not, please tell me :).

Anyways, whether or not it's true, I've borrowed a switch from my friend and I am attempting to network two computers through a switch and to also share DSL internet access.

Below is the list of all the equipment I have neccessary for the network:

2 Computers (Windows 98 SE + Windows 2000 Pro)
2 NIC Cards (D-Link 530TX and 538TX)
1 DSL Modem
1 D-Link DSS-8+ Switch w/ Power Adapter
3 RJ45 Cables

This should be enough to set up a network, unless I'm stupid enough to leave something important behind. What I want to set up is a LAN with internet sharing from my DSL Modem. The computer that originally has the DSL Access is the computer with Windows 2000 Pro. The client is the computer with Windows 98 SE, which needs Internet access.

Up to this point, I'm very confused and I need guidance to properly set up this LAN with internet sharing. The first step is to stick a RJ45 cable in each of the computers, and then connect them to the switch. Next, I would have to stick the cable in the DSL modem into the "Uplink" port of the switch. I guess all the hardware setup is correct so far, now onto the network settings inside the computers. If I have done ANYTHING wrong, please notify me, I dont want to destroy the hardware!

The next step is to change the network settings. For each computer, I would have to change them to an unique IP address; 192.168.0.10 for the Windows 2000 System, and 192.168.0.11 for the Windows 98 SE System. I would also have to change the Subnet Mask to 255.255.255.0 for both systems. Next, I would have to use the same gateway for both computers, 192.168.0.1. I was told to ignore DNS and other settings, so I leave them alone. Looks like I set up the LAN fine. So far, so good? If I have done ANYTHING wrong, please notify me!

The final step is to share Internet access. This is the step I am really stuck at. I would think that both computers connected to the switch would automatically have Internet access, but I'm wrong. One computer has to dial into the DSL Modem to gain Internet, but which computer do I use? I'm guessing the Windows 2000 System (since it is the host and is originally used to dial in without a network), but how would I do so? The cable connected to the DSL modem use to connect to another NIC card in my computer, but it has now been moved into the "Uplink" port of the switch? How do I dial into the modem to get Internet? I would guess that after this "dialing into the modem" works, both computers connected to the switch would automatically have Internet, right? Or is there more difficult work ahead? I'm really stuck and I need someone's expertise!!! Please help me! Thank you!

[Confused]

You really need a router to do what you want. It is so much easier. With a switch each PC will need it's own IP address. Most ISP's charge extra for additional IP addresses. A router uses the single IP address you currently have and assigns IP address to each PC.

You can share the internet connection by running ICS. One PC will connect to modem and also act as gateway and connect to second PC using a crossover cable. Gateway PC will require 2 NIC cards (one for modem and one for crossover cable) and client PC will have one NIC.
Chas

[MtX]

Originally posted by Confused
You can share the internet connection by running ICS. One PC will connect to modem and also act as gateway and connect to second PC using a crossover cable. Gateway PC will require 2 NIC cards (one for modem and one for crossover cable) and client PC will have one NIC.
Chas

First of all, can you please define and explain the term ICS, because I dont know what it means :(. Secondly, I have everything else you say. Right now, I have a PC connected to the DSL modem and I can connect it to the second PC using a crossover cable. My gateway PC does have 2 NIC cards (one for modem and one for crossover cable) and the client PC has one NIC. I have all of this and I can set it up instantly. But how do you share Internet? I could setup a LAN, but the second PC (Windows 98 SE) cant have internet access shared. If you could help me solve this problem without the use of a HUB / Router then that would really help. I only have a switch from a friend, a router costs too much.......

[Confused]

ICS is Internet Connection Sharing. While I know what they are and components needed, I have never set one up and do not feel qualitified to answer how to set one up. It sounds like you have all the components. A PC connected that already has a second NIC. You have a crossover cable and a NIC in second PC. And both are running WIN98SE or above.

Do A search on these forums for ICS. You will find several threads where people have helped others set one up. Or you could start a new thread asking for help in setting up ICS.

Good luck
Chas

[ZANEY123]

I dont have dsl so cant help there but this article should help out

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q238135

or

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/ics

Zaney123:)

[MtX]

That Microsoft website is sooo confusing... There's so much content in that website and I can't just seem to find what I need to set up ICS.. By the way, the Host Computer is Windows 2000 Pro and the Client is Windows 98 SE.

[MtX]

The annoyance one seems to be VERY helpful, thanks. However, I am not sure if I am doing what they say correctly. They say I need a HUB, but I don't have one, I only have a switch. Is it still possible to do ICS ?

[ZANEY123]

Setting Up the Host (2k only)
The first step to setting up ICS is to configure the host, the computer with the Internet Connection that will be shared. All the other computers are called "Clients," and are discussed in the following section.


Double-click on the Network and Dial-up Connections icon in Control Panel, or right-click on the My Network Places desktop icon and select Properties.
Here, you should have at least two connections listed: one for your Internet Connection, and one for your Local Area Connection. If they're not there, your network is not ready - install the proper hardware and software (described above) and try again.
By default, the available connections will named for the network adapters they represent; to make things easier, I recommend renaming them as shown in this screenshot:



Right-click on the entry corresponding to your Internet connection, and select Properties (see this article if you're using PPPoE).
Among the installed components listed in the General tab, the following should be checked here
Client for Microsoft Networks
NetBEUI Protocol
Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)
If you don't see one or more of these items, you'll need to add them by clicking Install.
If there are extra entries, just ignore them. The exceptions are NDISWAN or any ATM protocols - if you encounter a problem later on, you might have to remove these to use ICS.
If you have any other Internet sharing solutions (more information) installed on any of the machines, make sure they have been removed or disabled on each machine.
At this point, it's a good idea to make sure your current Internet connection is operational by testing it (load a web page or something). If all is well, then you can continue.

Choose the Sharing tab, and turn on the Enable Internet Connection Sharing for this connection option.


There's nothing useful behind the Settings button, so just click Ok when you're done. That's it!

Setting Up the Clients (win98se only)
The client machines don't require any special software; just a properly installed, network-capable operating system (such as Windows 95/98/Me/NT/2000/XP - see What You Need for details), or even Unix, FreeBSD, Linux, or Mac. Do the following for each client machine that will be using the shared connection: (Note that these details are for Windows 98 clients; check out the main ICS page for other platforms.)

Start by repeating the steps in Setting Up the Host, above, for each client. Note the following exceptions:
Don't include the NetBEUI protocol for the clients. It's not needed, and may prevent ICS from working.
Ignore any settings in regards to a "second ethernet card" or "dial-up connection."
Next, highlight the TCP/IP entry bound to the ethernet card (not bound to Dial-Up Adapter), e.g. "TCP/IP -> some network card"), and click Properties.
Select the IP Address tab, and choose Obtain and IP address automatically.
Select the WINS Configuration tab, and choose Use DHCP for WINS Resolution.
Select the Gateway tab, and remove any items in the Installed gateways list.
Select the DNS Configuration tab, and choose Disable DNS.
Click Ok when you're done (the NetBIOS, Advanced, and Bindings tabs don't matter). This will clear any Internet information from the protocol, and allow Windows to configure it automatically. This will make setup much easier.
If you've made any changes, click Ok when you're done. Confirm that you want to restart Windows when prompted.

i cut/pasted this from
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/ics

[ZANEY123]

If you have only two computers, you can forgo the hub, and use a Category 5 crossover cable instead.

[MtX]

thanx, the host is win2k pro and the client is win98 se... im also using PPPoE from my DSL... so does this mean my SWITCH Is useless and un-necessary for ICS?

[ZANEY123]

i thinks so but i dont know alot about switches yet. so wait for another post to make sure. but my theory would be not to use the switch.

Zaney123

[Markoman01027]

Some Routers come with a Setup CD. Where you just configure the HOST computer with the CD, and then just add "additional" computers.

Check out the LINKSYS Cable/DSL Router with the built in HUB. It's very nice and works very well.

[MtX]

I wish you'd read the post.. I don't have a router.. I only have a SWITCH (D-Link DSS 8+).. I want to setup a LAN between two computers and also share Internet Access (I have Bell Sympatico High-Speed DSL [uses Efficient Networks PPPoE]). Obviously if I had a router, this would be MUCH more easier :)

[Tuf]

A router is the by far the best way to do what you want to do.

You can use the switch and Internet Connection Sharing to setup shared Internet Access and a LAN. If you don't use the switch you'll need a crossover cable and a second NIC in the host computer.

The host computer will have to be on and signed on the Internet for the client to access the internet. It is not hard to setup just run the wizard on one of the computers and follow the directions.

Ultimately it will probably be a pain in the rear but you can do it.

[ktkendall]

The routers are quite affordable now, and since you have an 8-port switch, you would not need the router with the built in switch. They make cable/dsl router with one port to go to a switch or hub. This kind of setup is way more effecient, and quite simple to set up. You get builtin firewall protection via the router settings, both PC's will not have to be on for the remote PC to be on internet, and you relieve the main PC of much of the work, and you don't need any of their (ISP'S) software on either PC. Just to clear up one litttle bit of confusion here though, a hub and a switch are basically interchangable devices. A switch is actually just a more effecient hub. For a network of 2 PC's it won't make any difference , but when you start getting into larger networks a switch is worth the extra because of the increased effeciency. It reduces collisions and does not broadcast every packet to every PC. It is basically a hub but with a little bit of intelligence as it remembers mac addresses and keeps packets of data routing only to the PC that they are intended for via the mac addresses it remembers in it's table.

[arubahounds]

Mtx:

I agree with those that recommend a router, although it's hard these days to get one without a built in switch.

However, I have a system that was set up the way you describe. 2 PC's sharing a DSL over a LAN with a switch and not a router:

I set up both in a LAN first using the instructions that came with my switch: essentially IP addressing is automatic rather than assigned. I used Win's network wizard to set each PC up, choosing the option that has the computer connect to the internet through a gateway. I made sure that the protocols in each PC's network settings were identical (apparantly if only one has a certain protocol they won't talk to each other). I added NetBeui if it wasn't automatically installed. One PC was XP Home, the other ME.

Then I connected the DSL modem to the uplink port on the switch and voila! As each PC connected to the net my ISP assigned an IP address (as explained to me by glc), so that both PC's had their own address.

The catch: some ISP's charge extra for additional addresses. Check first. If there's an onerous charge go the ICS route as mentioned above. The only hassle there is you have to have the host PC turned on for the client PC to access the net.

Good luck.

HT

[arubahounds]

One more thing:

Routers provide a level of security that switches don't. Make sure that each PC is independently firewalled.

HT

[MtX]

Thanks for all the response. Tuf and Ktkendall, I know a router would be better, but this LAN will not exist everyday. I'm only trying to setup a LAN w/ ICS when my cousin comes over to my house (2-3 times a month) so that we can do some online gaming together. Obviously if I was running a business, or had another permanent computer(s) beside me I'd need a router :).

arubahounds, my ISP does charge money for extra IPs. I use Bell Sympatico High Speed Internet Service (I live in Ontario). I don't mind having Internet for the client as long as the host is on cause I'll always be on as long as my cousin is on too.

One question, which method is FASTER, MORE EFFICIENT, and BETTER? Use the switch and ICS to setup shared Internet Access and a LAN or use 1 crossover cable to directly connect the Host and the Client and have a second NIC in the host computer for the DSL Modem. Both seem like they can do the same job, but which one is better? Will using the switch (its a dual switch, goes at 200mbps) improve the LAN and Internet Sharing? Someone please answer me before I actually start doing all of this :) , thanks!

[Confused]

You will need ICS if both PC's need to address the network. Only way both can address the network thru a switch is if you have two IP addresses.

Think of it this way. you have to have a address to get on the highway. This address is assigned by your ISP. A second (or third, fourth) PC can get on the highway if there is a means to obtain additional addresses.

That is where a router or ICS comes in.

A router has the address assigned by your ISP and in turn assigns virtual addresses to each PC connected to it. A switch doesn't assign addresses, it just routes traffic to proper PC by using the IP address.

ICS does the same thing. The gateway PC (the one connected to modem) has the assigned IP address and in turn assigns a virtual IP address to its client.

If you read many of the threads in Networking, you will find that ICS will work but can be a huge pain for some people.
Chas

[MtX]

Ok can you guys stop talking about the router.. I know if I had a router, everything would be easy to solve, but unforunately I DONT, so I gotta work with what I got.. So please stop saying "router blah blah blah" cause if I had one, I wouldn't come here for help.

So Confused.. What you are saying is use 1 crossover cable to directly connect the Host and the Client and have a second NIC in the host computer for the DSL Modem since the Switch is just routing traffic to proper PC by using the IP address? Right?

[Confused]

Look I wasn't trying to give you a hard time with the router. If you will take the time to read my post I was explaining what each can and cannot do. It was meant to show that a switch isn't needed.

I also think in my explanation I pointed out that ICS can do what the router does by assigning a virtual IP address to the client.

In short.
Gateway PC has two NIC's. One connects to modem with straight thru cable. 2nd. connects to NIC in client PC using a crossover cable.

Go for it.
Chas

[MtX]

Yes that is what I will attempt when my cousin comes over. If I run into any trouble I will post my questions here.. ThankS

[Tuf]

What everyone was trying to explain to you was that a router is cheaper, safer, and more efficientin the short and long run.


Good Luck with it and blah blah blah and all that.

[MtX]

Yeah i know the router is better.. I wish I had the money to get one.. I live in Canada, $75-$120 for one.. And its not worth it to spend that much money on hardware that will be used 2-3 times a month.. Its unfortunate I must do LAN + ICS the hard way.

[Confused]

I will add one more thing and then I'm done. Since you are going the ICS route you need to run a software firewall if you aren't already doing so. Zone Alarm has a free version. There are others but ZA seems to be the prefered choice among those on this forum that use a software firewall.
Chas

[MtX]

Why do I need a software firewall??? To prevent hackers from hacking my computer??? If I have a firewall, will it prevent me from creating certain servers in games....

[ZANEY123]

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51383

read through this thread.
zaney123